# How important is form?



## Concreteguy (Nov 23, 2019)

Compromised form and how important is form? Makes you wonder after watching this. Their all huge and (((S O M E))) of the exercises are sloppy at best.

 [ame]https://youtu.be/_QQ6SR5acJM[/ame]


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## *Bio* (Nov 23, 2019)

Hey CG, most of their exercises are sloppy at best?  I saw compromised form on some of the REALLY heavy lifts like rows and deads but other than that, they looked fine.  Most of their training looked textbook with an emphasis on the eccentric.

On the topic of compromised form, I think genetics play a huge roll.  The primary mesomorph individuals seem to grow no matter what.  Could they grow even more with proper technique?  Sure.


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## Dens228 (Nov 23, 2019)

I think you can only compromise form so much before you aren't even working the targeted muscle.  Heaving up some way to heavy curls with your lower back won't work the biceps as well as a fairly strict movement. 

As you get older it's even more important to save your joints.  I'd say form-wise I'm about a 9.5 now that I'm 55 yoa and trying to avoid aggravating my joints that have paid the price for the years of activity I've put on them.


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## bbuck (Nov 23, 2019)

The better your genetics the more you can grow even with bad form or diet. Big guys get big always been that way. That is why they all train and eat different then each other and still grow. Less gifted people will probably have to know more then the gifted people to grow or bring up lagging parts as well as watching what they eat.


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## Concreteguy (Nov 23, 2019)

.


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## Biggerp73 (Nov 23, 2019)

Form is extremely important. For example, I can bench press three different ways, with very slight adjustments, making either a pec ***inant, shoulder ***inant, or tricep ***inant movement. Same for back exercises.. could be lats, could be biceps, could be lower back/spinal erectors lol.


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## Ryan1007 (Nov 24, 2019)

I think form is important but genetics play a big role to. Guys with great genetics seem to be able to get away with being a little loose on the form.


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## Elvia1023 (Nov 24, 2019)

There is a whole spectrum of answers. Generally speaking of course form is vitally important. Although even with bad form people (not just genetics freaks) can still get results. 

You can also appear to have decent form (nothing looks dodgy from an outsider looking in) but there is no connection with the targeted muscle.

We could talk about this subject for hours and go in 100 different ways. Very often when videos come out of BB's lifting super strict and using a very slow rep pace with mind-muscle connection being paramount you will get huge guys stating you can't get huge lifting that way but I disagree. Although like with most subjects the best answer is usually somewhere in the middle. So 2 sides of the spectrum could be Branch Warren and Cody Montgomery and in the middle is optimal. Although I like to try a bit of everything and train in different ways.

Now what is optimal. I guess you could state a very controlled negative and explosive (but controlled) positive. No momentum and just common sense. There is so much to form and the way you set your body up can make all the difference.

I benched heavy for years with a shit chest but when I started really perfecting my form my chest started to respond. My form never looked bad/dodgy from the outside but I wasn't targeting my chest effectively. Now I could go into all the guys who's sole aim is to lift heavier and that could be a few paragraphs. I see some of these progressive overload guys constantly trying to get stronger and many just lose the muscle connection in the pursuit of looking impressive on the gram. You see lot's of shorten ROM and little control just for the sake of lifting more. Although again there is a place for a bit of everything and sometimes just going crazy with the weights is nice.

Obviously this is also going to apply for guys who don't have amazing genetics. Some guys have great genetics for building muscle. They also have a better natural mind-muscle connection (other takes years to perfect it). For some their form is terrible but they still grow as their body is so much better for building muscle. Guys like Flex Wheeler have it super easy. That's why looking at a guy who didn't have it naturally who perfected it over years is usually better than taking gym advice from a genetic freak. A good example of this is Ronnie Coleman and even now he is very erractic in the way he lifts weights. 

For all my weak bodyparts I had to really focus on form and in some cases really experiment with many things before I started being able to develop them. Chest is one example listed above. Another one is calves. I literally abused my calves for years and I looked like I didn't train them. It's the only thing about my genetics that would really annoy me. Simply because I hated the thought people would think I never trained them hard. I could lift massive weights with good form and nothing. Who would have thought cardio on my tiptoes would have given me better results than 2-5pps calf raises but it has. 

So if you ever have a weak bodypart always look at form first and later on you may have to think outside of the box. Guys may think "I have a weak chest" for example so they train it more or less. Volume can be an important factor especially when guys are overtraining. But if your form is bad if you lift double the amount with the same bad form you will get the same bad results. So always look to form first if you want to improve something. When you have the form sorted you should look at volume, load and intensity.


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## Viking (Nov 26, 2019)

I follow the JP videos and saw this when they first uploaded it. I don't think the form was bad apart from Joe's heavy deadlifting. Good solid mass building training right there. I think form is very important for most people but as long as you're not a mess it should be ok. Although after injurying my back deadlifting when I see the rounded back in vids I do cringe.


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## *Bio* (Dec 4, 2019)

*Heavy Weight & Form*

Video on heavy weight and form by Palumbo, Romano & Priest.  Seems basic but we've all seen the people load up the bars or equipment and move it 2 inches.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSQ9OW9Wcbk


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## Concreteguy (Dec 4, 2019)

Since you posted about Nasser I've been watching a lot of his videos. As big as he was he was the biggest offender of "proper form" I may have ever seen from a guy of that status.


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## GearPro (Dec 4, 2019)

Keep in mind that these guys know they are being filmed. The ultimate goal of these videos is to drive engagement. More clicks, more views, more likes, and ultimately more money. What looks cooler on a video than a guy slapping on a ton of plates and throwing it around while he grunts and screams? Would people rather watch that or someone with realistic weight doing slow, controlled reps with long eccentrics? I think we all know the answer to that question.


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## AGGRO (Dec 5, 2019)

GearPro said:


> Keep in mind that these guys know they are being filmed. The ultimate goal of these videos is to drive engagement. More clicks, more views, more likes, and ultimately more money. What looks cooler on a video than a guy slapping on a ton of plates and throwing it around while he grunts and screams? Would people rather watch that or someone with realistic weight doing slow, controlled reps with long eccentrics? I think we all know the answer to that question.



Very true but many of these competitors are filmed for most training days so it's the way they train most of the time. Many lift heavy but use great form but others you see can't handle the weight and their form is bad. We are all probably guilty of bad form on some reps especially if trying to get stronger. For the likes of Branch Warren it seems to work but I could never train like that.


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## ASHOP (Dec 5, 2019)

I've always practiced and preached good form but then watched Branch Warren and Johnnie Jackson train and had to scratch my head.


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## *Bio* (Dec 6, 2019)

That story that Lee Priest told about the guy squatting with him and his trainer partner was funny but brutal.  I see guys in the gym I train at load up the leg press and bend their legs two inches.  It's unbelievable.  It's a different era now too.  What I mean is, when I joined the gym I was 16 years old and I took all the advice I can get.  Now every kid in the gym copies shit off the web and their form is awful.  If you say anything, they get irritated.  Case in point, someone I know at the gym introduced me to a friend of his.  This friend had been deadlifting with terrible form.  I asked him if I could give him some advice on his deadlifts, he paused and then said ok, I could tell he didn't think he needed it.  I told him how to properly deadlift.  He never took my advice and a couple of months later he told me he hurt his back deadlifting.  I just said, "Oh man, sorry to hear that."  To each their own!


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## MR. BMJ (Dec 6, 2019)

*Bio* said:


> That story that Lee Priest told about the guy squatting with him and his trainer partner was funny but brutal.  I see guys in the gym I train at load up the leg press and bend their legs two inches.  It's unbelievable.  It's a different era now too.  What I mean is, when I joined the gym I was 16 years old and I took all the advice I can get.  Now every kid in the gym copies shit off the web and their form is awful.  If you say anything, they get irritated.  Case in point, someone I know at the gym introduced me to a friend of his.  This friend had been deadlifting with terrible form.  I asked him if I could give him some advice on his deadlifts, he paused and then said ok, I could tell he didn't think he needed it.  I told him how to properly deadlift.  He never took my advice and a couple of months later he told me he hurt his back deadlifting.  I just said, "Oh man, sorry to hear that."  To each their own!



Yea, it's probably a 95% lost cause to even try to offer advice these days...unfortunately

With something like a deadlift, and all that is involved (form and possible injuries), you'd think some of these guys would be more willing to listen.


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## Dens228 (Dec 7, 2019)

*Bio* said:


> That story that Lee Priest told about the guy squatting with him and his trainer partner was funny but brutal.  I see guys in the gym I train at load up the leg press and bend their legs two inches.  It's unbelievable.  It's a different era now too.  What I mean is, when I joined the gym I was 16 years old and I took all the advice I can get.  Now every kid in the gym copies shit off the web and their form is awful.  If you say anything, they get irritated.  Case in point, someone I know at the gym introduced me to a friend of his.  This friend had been deadlifting with terrible form.  I asked him if I could give him some advice on his deadlifts, he paused and then said ok, I could tell he didn't think he needed it.  I told him how to properly deadlift.  He never took my advice and a couple of months later he told me he hurt his back deadlifting.  I just said, "Oh man, sorry to hear that."  To each their own!



It's even more amusing when a 20 something that weighs 160 pounds comes and tells you your workout is all wrong.....


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## MR. BMJ (Dec 7, 2019)

The video posted wasn't too bad at all. You lose some strictness in form when the poundage goes up, kind of a give-and-take situation. I think there is a point where giving up form outweighs the benefit and injury risk is just too high. There are guys who just don't have a clue and I cringe just looking at them. I think some guys like Branch Warren and many others had worse form. I think to a degree it is fine, and I think DC explains it well in his 'getting awkward' explanations, but some guys are a time bomb. 

lol, that said, you have guys tearing muscles just warming up or picking up a flyswatter though….so you never know when shit will go down bad


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## lycan Venom (Dec 9, 2019)

Well i was about to chime in but everyone already took the words out of mouth!


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## striffe (Dec 13, 2019)

Dens228 said:


> It's even more amusing when a 20 something that weighs 160 pounds comes and tells you your workout is all wrong.....



I watched a Roman Fritz video of him squatting with perfect form and some old guy came over to critique his form


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## Dens228 (Dec 13, 2019)

striffe said:


> I watched a Roman Fritz video of him squatting with perfect form and some old guy came over to critique his form



When I was coaching my youngest for travel baseball I had to opportunity to train in a lot of different gyms and see a lot of different Youtube worthy videos.  LOL

The best was watching some guy on the cable crossover machine. He had that bad boy loaded up, he'd literally have his arms spread and jump up in the air and on his way down bring his hands in, jumping up and down for numerous reps..........me and some woman in great shape were the only other ones in the place and kept giving each other looks and stifling our laughter.  That poor woman probably had to watch this guy every day!


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 17, 2019)

Gym Idiots - The Worst Squat Ever (with commentary) - YouTube


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