# Do you know the complete guide on Tren?



## LANDMARKCHEM_J (May 19, 2017)

Trenbolone is extremely versatile compound that can be used for both cutting and bulking. For some reason, for years people have been parroting around this line of junk about tren being good only for cutting/leaning out/hardness. This is absurd, and if someone is telling you this - they do not fully understand the capabilities of this compound. What you have to remember here is that trenbolone is a VERY strong compound (5x as strong as testosterone), it is the strongest conventional anabolic steroid out there. Trenbolone's anabolic rating is 500. By comparison, Testosterone's anabolic rating is 100 (testosterone is the standard by which all other anabolic steroids are measured against, being that it is the original anabolic steroid by which all others are essentially derived from). That means to get the effect of 100mg of tren, you would need 500mg of test. To get the same effect of 500mg of tren you'd need 2,500mg(!!!) of test, to get the same effect of 1,000mg of tren from testosterone, you'd need 5,000mg of test, etc. GET THE POINT? So, with that being said, I think that there is no need to be running tren at very high doses (especially if it is your first time running trenbolone), and the reason why a lot of people say "be careful, a lot of people can't take the sides" is because these people are running tren at unnecessarily high dosages. They're treating it like test, or any other much weaker compound. Tren is in a class all on its own! People need to realize this.


The fact of the matter is that people pump out arbitrary numbers when it comes to doses. Why do people tell others to run '500mg of test'? Why 400mg of tren? Why 300 mg of this, and 250 mg of that? Why? Because they don't know. Most of the time these numbers are arbitrarily made up. What I am presenting here is this: closely analyze the characteristics and stats of a particular compound (in this case we are looking at tren), and develop your cycle and dosing protocol based on the stats! There is no need to run 500mg of tren on your first tren cycle. The reason why I would reccomend far less than that is because when you look at trenbolone's characteristics and see that it is 5x as anabolic as testosterone, you see that it is evident you don't need very much to make dramatic physique changes.


For a first-time tren run, I believe one should be able to garner some very great gains off of 100mg test prop and 250mg tren per week (remember, you'd need 1,250mg test to achieve what 250mg tren does). Hell, 300-400mg tren per week produces great results with still minimal undesireable sides. And there is absolutely no reason to increase tren dosages with every tren cycle you do. For example, if you do 250mg on your first tren cycle there is absolutely no need to think you'll need to run 500mg on the next one, and then 750mg on your 3rd run, and so on and so forth. That's just plain stupidity. Remember, this beautiful compound is so strong that you don't need huge doses to elicit great gains, and the lower your dose is, the less undesireable side effects for the most part. And the beauty with tren is that it is so strong on a mg for mg basis that if you run it at a low dose, you're not losing out on your gains! You don't need a whole lot. Tren is one of those compounds where a little goes a long way. That is my personal saying and rule for tren. Remember that.




FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT TRENBOLONE




Q: Can I run tren alone?


NO. Testosterone at least in some dose must be run with it in order to maintain proper normal bodily functions that testosterone is responsible for. Trenbolone is a very strong compound, and is highly suppressive on your natural testosterone production. Trenbolone, although a very strong anabolic and androgen, does not perform the same way testosterone does in other important areas in the body. Always run testosterone with anything you plan to use.




Q: Can I run tren on my very first cycle?


You can do anything you want, but I hightly advise AGAINST IT. I do know people who have used trenbolone on their first cycle with no problems, but they are the exception - not the rule. Trenbolone, as mentioned above, carries side effects that are not seen with any other anabolic steroid. When a first-time beginner user encounters some of the side effects from tren, it will be very difficult for him to understand what is happening and why, and how to deal with it. Ultimately, you will end up hurting yourself. Tren is a compound for the intermediate and experienced user ONLY. How many cycles in should you throw tren in, depends on you, your understanding, your education on the matter, and your experience. There is no general rule for how many cycles you require under your belt before running tren. I have seen some brilliant people who grasped the knowledge of AAS so well that they ran tren on their second cycle and coped quite well. Again: the exception - not the rule.


It is ideal to run testosterone only for your first cycle, as testosterone is the basis by which all other anabolic steroids come from. It is THE original anabolic steroid. It only makes sense considering that your body ALREADY produces testosterone, and that you are merely putting more of something your body already produces inside you. Therefore it stands to reason that should you react adversely to testosterone, then chances are you will react worse to other anabolics. We use testosterone as a baseline by which all other anabolic steroids are measured, and we use it to gauge our body's natural reactions to it seeing as though it is the #1 anabolic steroid our bodies are already used to (after all, it is what our body already produces). After your first cycle or 2 (or 3 or more) of test-only, then you can branch out into other compounds and manipulate and test out different cycling techniques. 




Q: Can I run tren higher than test? Is this safe?


Yes and yes. In fact, I very much prefer running the tren higher than test. Ideally, this is what you want to do! I used to run my tren cycles at 400/week of test prop with 300/week of tren. Then I eventually realized, why not just make tren the primary anabolic and leave test for purely maintaining normal bodily function? That way, you totally avoid the estrogen related sides. No risk of bloat, no gyno , no estrogen, no SHBG from high test levels (trenbolone does not have a high affinity for SHBG - nowhere near test). Just solid lean hard gains. I highly reccomend running tren higher than test, and keep test at TRT doses (100mg per week). There are some who are advising against this practice, but I find it funny that they provide no reason behind it. It is not as if the trenbolone acts like pac-man in your blood, eating up all of your testosterone. You will be fine, and this is the ideal method of running tren - not to say running test at a hefty dose isn't a bad thing, however... if that is what you wish to do, then so be it.




Q: What are the different forms of tren? What is better? What should I use?


Tren is primarily and most popularily found in these 3 formats:


- Trenbolone Acetate
- Trenbolone Enanthate
- Trenbolone Hexahydrobencylcarbonate


The difference between the 3 are simply release times and half-lives. There is no solid answer I have on 'what is better' and which one you should use. These are things you must determine for yourself. Tren Ace is the most commonly used format. I can definitely say that the benefit to the Acetate variant is that due to its short half life, you can start and stop your cycle quicker in case you encounter any highly undesirable side effects, and as a result wish to halt immediately. With the Enanthate variant, it takes 2 weeks to fully clear your system. Decide accordingly




Q: What's this 'tren cough' I hear so much about? What can I do to stop/prevent it?


Tren cough is the result of nicking a vein in the injection site and getting some of the oil in the vein. Now, you'll get the cough from ANY compound when that happens - not just tren. However, tren causes a far worse cough than any others when this happens. Some theories postulated about what causes the cough are: 


- The solvents (Benzyl Alcohol and Benzyl Benzoate) in the solution. This to me does not make sense, as every other injectable compound contains these solvents, and the coughing fits that may occur from other injectables are nowhere near as bad as the cough that results from trenbolone.
- It has been suggested that the binders in the trenbolone solution are a cause of the cough once the oil enters a vein. For those of you who do not know, in the chemistry world a binder is a material used to bind separate particles together, to give an appropriate consistency, or facilitate adhesion. This theory doesn't hold very much weight to me considering nearly all drugs in solutions contain binders as well - not just trenbolone.
- It has been postulated that the cough is the result of the prostaglandin increasing effects of tren, but it is also largely a mystery. I am, however, more likely to believe that this is the more fitting theory. BUT, though the prostaglandin increase from trenbolone is a known fact, this mechanism is highly unlikely to occur immediately upon injection, as that is too fast a time scale for the proposed mechanism. Prostaglandin increases do not and can not occur within minutes to produce an acute severe cough. The prostaglandin increases from trenbolone result in the diminished cardiovascular ability i've already discussed, and this is a result of prostaglandin increases over days and weeks - it is not possible for this to cause tren-cough upon the very first injection of someone's cycle. Thus, it must be the result of something unique to trenbolone compounds entering the blood stream and traveling to the lungs for the cough to be manifested that quickly and that harshly compared to when this happens with other compounds.
- My own personal theory? Personally, I believe it is the trenbolone molecule itself that when injected into a vein, causes the irritation in the lungs to a far greater degree than other compounds. Why is this and what is the attribute in the tren molecule that would give it this characteristic? I don't know. This is just my own speculation based on deductive reasoning after looking at all of the other theories out there.


To date, the tren-cough and why it is worse with tren compared to any other compound is still largely a mystery in the world. We still do not know with 100% certainty what the ultimate culprit is. Perhaps at some time in the future it will be discovered. All we know so far is that it is generally the result of the oil getting into a vein when injecting.


The cough, depending on how much oil has seeped into a vein (i.e. nicked a vein, passed through a vein on the way into the muscle, or literally injected right into it), should last anywhere from a minute to 5 minutes. The severity of the cough can range from a mild little irritating dry-throat esque type of cough to a major coughing fit. I have had both. The cough typically feels like there is something itching in your throat/chest/lung area, and mich akin to a dry throat feeling and something in your lungs that must be expelled, you have the need to cough. This is your body (your lungs specifically) attempting to expel the substance out (because veins carry blood to the lungs; arteries to the heart). This is very much similar to a situation in which you inhale a toxic gas, as anyone can recall if they have ever been exposed to something such as CS gas or tear gas, etc.) 


What can you do about it? Not much. I can only reccomend injecting very slowly, as it seems like the cough and the severity of it is directly correlated to the speed by which the oil is being injected if there is a vein nearby that has been hit where the oil is seeping into. Some users claim it is possible to surpress the cough by immmidiately starting to inhale-exhale small amounts of air very rapidly through the mouth, much like you are hyperventilating or how pregnant women do it to surpress the contractions during labour.




Q: I GOT THE TREN COUGH!!!! HELP ME! AM I GOING TO DIE!? WILL I BE OKAY!?


No, you are not going to die. Yes, you will be okay. The cough clears within a matter of minutes. The severity of the cough is dependant on two factors: how quickly you injected the oil, and how much of it entered your bloodstream and travelled to the lungs to be expelled. It can manifest as the notorious hard and uncontrolable cough that starts right after or during injection, or a milder controllable one that is just irritating.




Q: I've heard that tren is harsh on the kidneys and people report urinating very dark unrine when on tren? Is this a bad sign?


Kidney damage has been a commonly touted effect of tren. I can say that tren is no harsher on the kidneys than most AAS. The origin of this rumor comes from the fact that often while on a tren cycle, you will find your urine becomes a very dark rusty color (this does certainly happen with me). It is not because your kidneys are being damaged. That dark rusty color are the metabolites of tren being excreted out of your body in your urine. Trenbolone seems to oxidize to a dark rust color very easily, even under refrigeration. The discolored urine tends to happen often, with no signs of renal toxicity. Also, trenbolone acetate is still widely used in animals for carcass weight increase. There seems to be no mention of kidney toxicity in animals, or with the few historical human trenbolone preparations. So basically, what some think is blood in the urine is actually just the metabolite of tren coloring the urine much darker. Tren itself before it is metabolized has a very amber color, hence why it is always amber in the vials it is contained in.




Q: If tren lowers T3 output in the body, is it necessary to always run T3 while on a tren cycle?


Not likely. If the goal is fat loss, it might be a bonus. I have run tren both with and without T3 before. 95% of my tren cycles are run without T3, and the cycles of tren without T3 were just fine. I didn't notice any diminished fat loss or metabolic issues. It would be interesting to see bloodwork while on a tren cycle and look at TSH and T3 levels, though... But, my bloodwork post-tren cycle has always shown normal healthy levels of TSH. SO, either the tren did not shut down thyroid output or my output bounced back to normal almost instantly after the cycle ended.




Q: Is HCG administration necessary on trenbolone?


Not unless you find your body is extremely sensitive to HPTA shutdown and you have a very difficult time restoring it during the post-cycle weeks. I have not found it necessary for myself, due to running short cycles. If you wish to maintain testicular size and function while on cycle, HCG can be used. However, this is for the most part a personal preference among users. My personal opinion is that I see far too many people excessively relying on HCG in the first place. It is very easy to destroy your body's endogenous LH secretion with it, and is one of the reasons why strongly advise against its constant use while on-cycle. IF it were to be used at all, I advise only during the first week or so of PCT to give the testes a jumpstart - that's IT.




Q: What kind of PCT do I need to run after coming off a tren cycle?


There is no solid answer to this. I have suggested many times that trenbolone is for the intermediate and advanced user, not for beginners... and there is good reason for this suggestion. By the time you are experienced enough consider trenbolone, you should already know what PCT protocol works best for you and you should already know what to be using for PCT. PCT compounds and protocols are not designed around the cycles they supercede, but they are more designed around the user and how that person recovers post-cycle.:action-smiley-044:


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## bigpoppie (May 22, 2017)

Ill add that, in my body anyway, tren increased the acidity in my seamen. My girl would complain of burning after sex. It had gotten so severe once that she went to gyno and the doctor, who is a friend, said what the hell happened. She never saw anything like it. It looked acid burned inside.
It also gives me pancreatitis every single time. The last time It grew a cyst from the stress. I have vowed against ever doing it again. Not worth it taking me out.


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## LANDMARKCHEM_J (May 22, 2017)

*Why Bodybuilders Should Use Clomid?*

PCT(Post cycle therapy) is a word, can't familar any more word, among bodybuilding communicity. It's ineviatable process after taking anabolic steroids and it can effectively help to recover back to the body normal testosterone level.

Most anabolic steroids, especially the androgens, cause inhibition of the body's own testosterone production. When a bodybuilder comes off a steroid cycle, natural testosterone production is zero and the levels of the steroids taken in the blood are diminishing. This leaves the ratios of catabolic: anabolic hormones in the blood high, hence the body is in a state of catabolism, and as a result, much of the muscle tissue that was gained on the cycle is now going to be lost.

Clomid stimulates the hypothalamus to, in turn stimulant the anterior pituitary gland (aka hypophysis) to release gonadotrophic hormones. The gonadotrophic hormones are follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH - aka interstitial cell stimulating hormone (ICSH)). FSH stimulates the testes to produce more testosterone, and LH stimulates them to secrete more testosterone. This feedback mechanism is known as the hypothalamic-pituitary-testes axis (HPTA), and results in an increase of the body's own testosterone production and blood levels rise, to, in part, compensate for the diminishing levels of exogenous steroids. This is vital to minimise post cycle muscle losses.

*When To Take Clomid?*

The correct time to take Clomid depends on the type and cycle of steroids you have been using. Different steroids have different half-lifes (indicates the time a substance diminishes in blood), and Clomid administration should be taken accordingly.

As we have seen above, Clomid taken when androgen levels in our blood are still high will be a waste. It is crucial to wait for androgen levels to fall before implementing our Clomid therapy. However, if taken too late we could possibly lose gains.

Below listed determines when you should start Clomid. Select from the list any steroids you've used in your cycle and whichever one has the latest starting point is the time to commence Clomid. For example, if Dianabol, Sustanon and Winstrol were cycled, the time for administering Clomid should be 3 weeks post cycle, as Sustanon remains active in the body for the longest period of time.

Steroid cycle:        after last injection   ;    Length of Clomid Cycle
Anadrol:	                  8 - 12 hours	       ;           3 weeks
Deca durabolan:	           3 weeks	;            4 weeks
Dianabol:	               4 - 8 hours	         ;           3 weeks
Equipoise:	                  17 - 21 days	          ;          3 weeks
Winstrol:	                    8 - 12 hours	          ;             2-3 weeks
Primabolan depot:	            10 - 14 days	;              2 weeks
Finajet/Trenbolone:	             3 days	        ;                 3 weeks
Testosterone Sustanon:	      3 weeks	       ;           3 weeks
Testosterone Cypionate:	     2 weeks	        ;          3 weeks
Testosterone Enanthate:         2 weeks	        ;          3 weeks
Testosterone Propionate:        3 days	         ;         3 weeks
Testosterone Suspension:        4 - 8 hours	  ;             2-3 weeks

*How To Take Clomid?*

Clomid has a long half-life (possibly 5 days), so there is no need to split up doses throughout the day. If Sustanon has been used and Clomid is commenced 3 weeks after the last injection, I would estimate that androgen levels are low enough to start sending the correct signals. If androgen levels are still a little high, we need to start at a high enough amount that will work or help, even if androgen levels are still a little high. Try 300mg on day 1; then use 100mg for the next 10 days; followed by 50mg for 10 days.   :headbang:


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## Martin_kl (May 22, 2017)

Thanks for sharing the info of Tren. I have only run test so far and have definitely been curious about tren and what I should consider when preparing to use it. Very helpful!


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## AR-15 (May 22, 2017)

Hcg is very much overused. Not as much as it use to be but there are still old timers still living in the past giving out bad info. Unfortunately I listened to all the old time Guru's and HCG reeked havoc on my system when I first started AAS. Its still fucked up 15 years later. Hcg is good when needed but only when its needed. And some of the doses I see suggested are fucking rediculous and scary. I don't give it to any of my peeps unless they really need it. I've found a lot better options for pct....AR....


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## Jeff07 (May 24, 2017)

Mark, it is useful


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