# Getting that V-Taper



## Ricky_blobby (Mar 1, 2016)

What are you guys' most effective techniques/ exercises for blowing up your back? It is really easy for me to put size on my chest and legs but my back doesn't seem to be growing at all. I mostly do shitloads of pull ups, because I've been told THATS the best exercise for the V-taper but it doesn't seem to be doing shit.


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## Sully (Mar 1, 2016)

Getting really lean and having a small waste is the best start. But, genetically some of us have a thicker waist line. Nothing that anyone can do about genetics. 

As far as exercises, make sure you're focusing on your lats when doing pull-ups. We have a tendecy to use too much of our biceps and lower traps. And switch between high and low volume, lower and higher weight. Also, make sure you stretch them well after workouts. 

I'm basically in the same boat. I have a really tough time activating and isolating my lats, especially my right lat. Getting to grow is extremely difficult for me, too.


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 2, 2016)

If you're doing pull ups make sure to keep your upper back constantly arched which will leave you leaning back. This will take some stress off the bi's and put more on the lats. If you can rep them out than keep it up but if you cant do several sets of 10 to 15 choose the pulldown.

Secondly, you can't seperate thickness from width. Muscles can't be shaped they can only grow and shrink. Which bring me to rows. Jeff Everson a phd often states that rows may be superior to pull ups. I do predominantly rows and can't hide my back. I still do pull downs because at 260-270 its all I can do to get 5 or 6 pull ups plus they hurt my shoulder.

So, I would do one vertical and one horizontal pull each session. Also consider 2X week if you aren't already.

Hawk


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## d2r2ddd (Mar 2, 2016)

a good read 

https://www.t-nation.com/training/monstrous-back-the-mountain-dog-way


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## Magnus82 (Mar 2, 2016)

I made a single arm row bar like John sells and I absolutely love it.  T-bar rows and suitcase rows are great with it as I realized I was failing early due to by lower back and not my lats while doing barbell rows.  With these you can support yourself with your free hand off your knee allowing you to concentrate more on  your lats.  I would also suggest slow wide grip  negative pull ups.  This will give you a very good mind muscle connection.  Wide grip straight arm pushdowns on a cable machine are great for finishing or burnouts.


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## Magnus82 (Mar 3, 2016)

Good little tip here that may help you "feel"  your lats better. 
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=974156082652485&id=683868685014561


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## DNP-Direct (Mar 3, 2016)

Lots of good info these guys have suggested for you, my back is my best muscle group and have always had a better back than those I competed against.  I like to stretch out my lats before and after every back workout.  I also like to start with pull ups.  If you are able to do a good amount of reps start using a weighted pullup/dip belt.  I always utilize pulls downs as well, and like to alternate pulling and rowing exercises so I will do around 4 sets of a pulling exercise and then do 4 sets of a rowing exercise.  A big thing with your lats is being able to feel the muscle as it is an easy to let other muscles do to much of the work.


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## ASHOP (Mar 5, 2016)

Ricky_blobby said:


> What are you guys' most effective techniques/ exercises for blowing up your back? It is really easy for me to put size on my chest and legs but my back doesn't seem to be growing at all. I mostly do shitloads of pull ups, because I've been told THATS the best exercise for the V-taper but it doesn't seem to be doing shit.



Lots of pulldowns,,Chins and rowing. Experiment with different sets and rep schemes to find what works best for you.


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## squatster (Mar 6, 2016)

Good post
I stretch my back out after every set.
Heavy heavy front pull downs- strict as hell when you can.
love


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## rangerjockey (Mar 6, 2016)

First, I have always hated you guys yes, you pull up guys!  SInce I was a kid I never could do more than 4.  My first cycle at 19 I think I maxed out on 12.  SO I watch you guys at the gym doing pull up after pull up,  I want to throw the 5lb dumbells at you.  

My rant is over, If you can do pull ups do them, for us guys who cant.......just watch the guys that do.


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## squatster (Mar 6, 2016)

rangerjockey said:


> First, I have always hated you guys yes, you pull up guys!  SInce I was a kid I never could do more than 4.  My first cycle at 19 I think I maxed out on 12.  SO I watch you guys at the gym doing pull up after pull up,  I want to throw the 5lb dumbells at you.
> 
> My rant is over, If you can do pull ups do them, for us guys who cant.......just watch the guys that do.



I have always felt like I am waiting my time with pull ups- I really think for a big thick back there are so many better ways to do it with out pull ups- they give you a great stretch
Close grip pull downs isolated - heavy and wide grip pull downs are just as good -easer to control - easer to put more weight on.
Just me


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## bolics (Mar 6, 2016)

Hi mate,

Hope it's will help you.

Muscle-Building Back Exercises!
Bent Over Barbell Row


A bent-over row (or barbell row) is a weight training exercise that targets a variety of back muscles. Which ones are targeted varies on form. The bent over row is often used for both bodybuilding and powerlifting. It is a good exercise for increasing strength and size.

1.    Grab a barbell, load some weight on it and set it down in front of you. Stand with your mid-foot under the bar. Don’t touch it with your shins.
2.    Stand with your feet at around shoulder width, bend at the knees, and squat down to grip the bar with and overhand grip (thumbs at the bottom) and your hands wider than shoulder width apart.
3.    Keeping your back straight, stand straight up so you're holding the bar in front of you against your waist.
4.    To get into the starting position bend your knees slightly, and while keeping your back straight let the barbell slide down your thighs until it drops just below knee level. This is the stance that should not change throughout the set.
5.    Pull the bar up to just below your chest.
6.    Squeeze your shoulder blades together at the top of the movement.
7.    Then slowly lower back to the start position.








Bent Over Barbell Row



Variants of this exercise, depending on whether dumbbells or a barbell is used:

        Two arm barbell bent-over-row;
        Two arm dumbbell bent-over-row;
        One arm dumbbell bent-over-row;
        One arm barbell bent-over row.

Strongly


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## squatster (Mar 6, 2016)

Nice 1st post bolics


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## Stallion (Mar 6, 2016)

I think there is some good posts here. I'm trying to do the same. Having a very noticeable V taper comes down to size and diet. Simple as that. Even with my size (296lbs), my V won't be as noticeable until I get more strict in the kitchen and hit that treadmill lol.


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## Ricky_blobby (Mar 7, 2016)

Thanks for taking the time to post guys.


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## robertscott (Mar 7, 2016)

Like everyone else has said: small waist, big everything else.

That said, pull ups aren't always the greatest exercise depending on your body.  As with most compounds, you can't really choose which muscles are taking on the brunt of the work, and a lot of people are really dominant in their rhomboids, teres major, biceps, etc., so their lats aren't getting as hammered as they'd like (as a slight aside, show me a guy with massive biceps relative to his size and I'll show you a guy with an underdeveloped back).

Also, we all know that from a bodybuilding standpoint you need to get good, controlled reps where you feel the muscle working.  To be able to do a fast concentric, a pause at peak contraction and a slow negative means you need to be VERY good at pull ups!  Most people just kind of launch themselves up and don't control the eccentric.  Even harder if you're a really big dude like I assume most on this forum are.

So maybe try ditching the pull ups in favour of pulldowns, and experiment with different grips.  Squeeze the reps, control the negatives.  Might be just what you need.  I find a close, neutral grip pulldown hits my lats harder than anything else.


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## Stallion (Mar 7, 2016)

Magnus82 said:


> Good little tip here that may help you "feel"  your lats better.
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=974156082652485&id=683868685014561



Spot on! I was so guilty of the branch warren approach just to heave the weight. I've been doing what this guy says and focusing on the squeeze and negatives. Its all about time under tension. Something I've personally been trying to bring up is the belly of the lats; the lower quarter. When i diet more they'll come in, but I've been trying to bring that area up for a while now.


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## Magnus82 (Mar 7, 2016)

Here is a great example an amazing v-taper. His name is Artemus Dolgen.  Minimal user,  turned pro at 167lbs, but his training is spot on.  His back isn't all that huge but you can see his waist is insane.  Probably 27-28". He limits core work and seldom does abs.  Wears a squeem to train his abs from distenting,  and does vacuum exercises religiously.  I think many here could benefit from swapping traditional ab work with vacuum exercises.


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## Magnus82 (Mar 7, 2016)

Here's another one,Simeon Panda.  I bet both of these guys put as much or more work into narrowing their waist as they do broadening their backs


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## thebrick (Mar 7, 2016)

small waist with a big back... hopefully your lats have low insertions and that makes it more dramatic


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## Stallion (Mar 7, 2016)

Magnus82 said:


> Here is a great example an amazing v-taper. His name is Artemus Dolgen.  Minimal user,  turned pro at 167lbs, but his training is spot on.  His back isn't all that huge but you can see his waist is insane.  Probably 27-28". He limits core work and seldom does abs.  Wears a squeem to train his abs from distenting,  and does vacuum exercises religiously.  I think many here could benefit from swapping traditional ab work with vacuum exercises.



I think you make a valid point. I've heard so many in my circle that got their waist down by simply not working abs, which make them appear thicker somewhat. Thats how Arnold kept it tight but doing the vacuum exercises. I will have to give this some thought.


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## Sully (Mar 9, 2016)

I'm curious how the idea of doing minimal ab work conflicts with the idea of having a strong core? I've always trained abs for the benefit of having the strongest core muscles possible to help prevent injuries. Not that it's helped much, but still, that was the point. Granted, these guys r bodybuilders and not power lifters, so as long as their not getting ridiculous with the poundages, or using horrendous form they might be okay. 

But, just as a general rule, doesn't the idea of limiting core work make one more susceptible to back injuries if they lift heavy? And especially if they carry the kind of mass on top that these guys do?


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## Magnus82 (Mar 9, 2016)

I guess I've gone against the grain when it comes to the bro science about core work.  I've always felt minimizing it also minimized distension.  Guy doing weighted or rope crunches can get blocky waists and train their abs to distenting.  The little ab work I do utilize ab lengthing exercises such as leg raises and ab wheel work.  I've always felt these exercises help tighten the waist much like vacuum exercises.  I also wear a tight belt everytime I lift for the entire workout, not allowing my abs to grow outward.  I have remained injury free for the many years I have done this with no noticeable weakness in my core.  With everything we do they still get trained pretty hard.  I do agree that powerlifting there may be an issue,  but I'm not a powerlifter and I see them a 2 entirely different training styles.   
.


Lil' Sully said:


> I'm curious how the idea of doing minimal ab work conflicts with the idea of having a strong core? I've always trained abs for the benefit of having the strongest core muscles possible to help prevent injuries. Not that it's helped much, but still, that was the point. Granted, these guys r bodybuilders and not power lifters, so as long as their not getting ridiculous with the poundages, or using horrendous form they might be okay.
> 
> But, just as a general rule, doesn't the idea of limiting core work make one more susceptible to back injuries if they lift heavy? And especially if they carry the kind of mass on top that these guys do?


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## Elvia1023 (Mar 10, 2016)

I haven't read the other replies. But it's all about building big round shoulders, a wide back and maintaining a small waist. The waist is vital. My back is probably a lot wider than it looks because my waist is easily 38 inches. There are pics were my waist looks fairly small but it's far from small. 

I want to improve my v taper this year. I will be doing that by really focusing on my lats when training back. I will be using a variety of rows to accomplish that. I won't be going crazy heavy so I can really focus on form. My back is very strong but if you are doing 5 plates a side you lose that control. Especially for the genetically weaker bodybuilder you need that control and focus to improve a weaker bodypart. I will feel my lats working on every rep... getting a full stretch at the top and bottom of every rep. I will also be killing my middle and rear delts with lateral and rear delt raises performed twice weekly.

On top of the above I will start cutting and performing vacuums throughout every day. I will add in a few fat loss aids and eat a clean well balanced diet so for every inch my waist goes in my back will probably appear 1 inch wider. I am hoping to lose at least 4 inches around my waist so that will only add to my v taper.


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## d2r2ddd (Mar 10, 2016)

these 2 items which John Meadow uses to improved his waist


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