# The Laws of Trenbolone- By: jimmyjones



## Big-John (May 22, 2013)

I found this on PM. Some may have already seen this but I thought it would be good for the newer guys. This is basically what dudcki27 has been saying for a long time now. 

Trenbolone, as they say..... The Nectar of the Gods! Is by far the most misunderstood drug, in all of bodybuilding history. So many stories out there of the reckless insomnia, the high blood pressure, the hair on your pillow, the brown stinky urine that is reponsibly for your kidneys falling out of your ass. Ill be the first person to tell you that this is 90% horse shit.

Why? Continue reading below.

You see, due to broscience and bible like teachings of steroid use, everyone thought it was only logical to run your Test twice as high as your Tren, you know..to avoid that TREN DICK! Well, it would only seem logical right? God forbid the Tren dosage was as high as your Test, and you might just get called insane or stupid. Well, I too was one that fell into the hole of incorrect teachings. My first time trying Trenbolone, I start out at 150mg per week…150 measly milligrams per week. I coupled it with 500mg Test Enanthate. And I tell ya what…I felt the night sweats, insomnia, the aggression, and the high blood pressure. I felt god fucking awful. And so there I stopped.


A few months later down the road, I began reading some things on this very forum, all about low Test/ High Tren. Me being a guinea pig, I decided to give Tren one more try. I also had read very deep into Cabergoline. I figured, if im using an anti-estrogen for my Test dosage….why would I not use an anti-prolactin? If you all didn’t know by now, Trenbolone raises prolactin inside the body dramatically after the 4th-5th week. Then, I began reading on prolactin’s effect on the body. And then it all finally clicked correctly in my head.


Tren dick? Deca dick? How can such androgenic drugs, shut down libido so badly, to the point of feeling castrated? Well, I will tell you all, once and for all, why these mythical Tren Dick and Deca Dick situations even occur.

So check me out. After successful sexual intercourse, the male ejaculates. When this occurs, the body spikes the hormone prolactin, which is the signal to let you know you are officially done with copulation. That’s it, youre done. You’ve reached the sex heaven.

So what happens next? Your dick dies. It goes absolutely limp. Because, by human nature, there is no more need for you to pass along your seeds, they are already inside the queen bee.

So what does this all mean? Essentially, it is prolactin causing the problems, NOT the Tren. Yes, of course, the Tren caused the prolactin to rise, but we don’t attack the Tren, we attack the prolactin.

That’s where Cabergoline comes in. Caber comes in with the dual AK-47’s and blasts prolactin to the floor, never to be heard from again. Now that that’s taken care of, Tren and Deca will NEVER again give you limp noodle dick. EVER.

Now back to the “Low Test” deal, I had read a post some fellow made, about NEVER going above 200mg whenever Tren is in the equation. So I tried it…
I started out again with 50mg Tren Ace EOD. Coupled with 50mg Test Ace EOD.

2 Weeks in and I began feeling incredible. Strength and size were thru the roof. And I said, damn, is this Test Ace good as fuck and this Tren Ace bunk or someshit? No way, GAULS never sends me bunk shit…. What the fuck? I don’t feel any sides!

So I bumped the Tren Ace to 100mg EOD. I felt even better…

Then I bumped the Tren Ace to 200mg EOD….

Then 300mg EOD.

And good god, I was the biggest and leanest Ive ever been in my life, all the while running 150mg of Test Ace per week the entire time.
I was on 900mg of Tren Ace per week only for 2 weeks, and then I dropped the drug entirely. But I must state again, never in my life had I felt so amazing. Strength, size, vascularity, sex drive, well being, blood pressure, my god did I feel like a well-lubed high performance machine. I had gained 10lbs of pure size and no water in just 4 weeks. I am NOT telling you to run 900mg of Tren, no I really am not. This is purely for my own experimental reasons. I just wanted to see what would happen, even if I stayed on 150mg Test the entire time.


After this experience, Testosterone is simply a weak and inefficient steroid next to Trenbolone. In my mind, when you couple such a powerful drug like Trenbolone at a moderate to high dosage, with a high dosage of Testosterone, you leave LOTS and LOTS of unbound hormone flowing around mindlessly in your body. Since Trenbolone attaches to the receptor site first, and there is high dosages of Testosterone in the mix as well, its as if Testosterone is roaming the streets looting stores, stealing cars, breaking windows (high blood pressure, insomnia, night sweats).

You know what I say? When Trenbolone is sitting at the front of the table, talking, everyone else shuts their mouths. That’s right. He is the fucking boss and no one else is above him. Testosterone is like the boss’ bitch. The boss’ bitch is allowed to speak ONLY when the boss is NOT speaking.
What do I mean by that? When Trenbolone is at ANYTIME part of your cycle, test is always below 200mg a week. When Trenbolone comes OUT of the equation, that’s when you may blast Testosterone to the moon.

Final conclusion of my story?

1) Always keep prolactin in check when using Trenbolone or Nandrolone
2) Never use more than 200mg of Testosterone per week when using Trenbolone
3) Don’t knock something till you try it. It may change your entire mindset of this game!
4) Bump up Tren nice and slow...and get big and lean as FUCK!


----------



## BIG D (May 22, 2013)

Definitely a great read. Thanks for sharing


----------



## dudcki27 (May 22, 2013)

Big-John said:


> I found this on PM. Some may have already seen this but I thought it would be good for the newer guys. This is basically what dudcki27 has been saying for a long time now.
> 
> Trenbolone, as they say..... The Nectar of the Gods! Is by far the most misunderstood drug, in all of bodybuilding history. So many stories out there of the reckless insomnia, the high blood pressure, the hair on your pillow, the brown stinky urine that is reponsibly for your kidneys falling out of your ass. Ill be the first person to tell you that this is 90% horse shit.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the props man.


----------



## Bfit247 (May 22, 2013)

Great read caber is definitely a must!!!


----------



## amateurmale (May 22, 2013)

Just because of this read I think I may give tren another try.


----------



## Big-John (May 22, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> Just because of this read I think I may give tren another try.



That was the same thing I was thinking. My wife has dared me to take it again lol.. I had some major aggression on it. And my mind was not right!


----------



## amateurmale (May 22, 2013)

Big-John said:


> That was the same thing I was thinking. My wife has dared me to take it again lol.. I had some major aggression on it. And my mind was not right!




Yeah me too. My aggression was really bad.  I wonder if running it with low test helps to lower aggression too?


----------



## Thunder46 (May 22, 2013)

I love tren makes me feel and look great, and for me sides are minimal with low test


----------



## Big-John (May 22, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> Yeah me too. My aggression was really bad.  I wonder if running it with low test helps to lower aggression too?



I think it has to help. He even mentioned that he had it when he was running it wrong.


----------



## Enigmatic707 (May 22, 2013)

While the low test/ high tren protocol will help with prolactin related sides- I don't feel that all the sides attributed to tren are prolactin based.

Lowering your test will probably not have an impact on : night sweats, aggression, loss of appetite, insomnia-

These sides I believe are mediated by different pathways entirely. Mostly the binding of tren to the beta-3 receptors and   adrenergic receptors. This is also what causes the burnt out feeling after a few months as well, the over stimulation severely down regulates these pathways.


----------



## dudcki27 (May 22, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> Yeah me too. My aggression was really bad.  I wonder if running it with low test helps to lower aggression too?



It definitely will make you less of an asshole with lower test. My buddy did it both ways and with high test he would get pissed when people would say high to him. And he's a very laid back guy.


----------



## srd1 (May 22, 2013)

I read this thread by  jimmyjones and have also followed his personel thread about the cycle hes on now he seems to be very knowledgeable and he def practices what he preaches.


----------



## nothuman (May 23, 2013)

low test/high tren is good if you just want a ripped body year round. If you want to grow, you need high test


----------



## dudcki27 (May 23, 2013)

MoneyShot said:


> low test/high tren is good if you just want a ripped body year round. If you want to grow, you need high test



So your actually trying to say that with tren and lower test you won't grow? So it has nothing to do with feed efficiency or nutrient partioning and nitrogen retention? All of which tren is superior at than any other steroid. More meat (muscle) with less food is the only reason they use it on cattle. You can grow just fine on 100mgs of ace a day with around 150mgs of test a week.


----------



## chrisr116 (May 24, 2013)

I did really well on low test, medium tren and medium mast last year.  Probably the leanest I ever have been.  Didnt have any aggression issues though.  Over 500mg tren gave me poor quality sleep...not really insomnia.

Got Gauls tren enanthate in reserve for my end of year cycle.  :headbang:


----------



## Elvia1023 (May 24, 2013)

Enigmatic707 said:


> While the low test/ high tren protocol will help with prolactin related sides- I don't feel that all the sides attributed to tren are prolactin based.
> 
> Lowering your test will probably not have an impact on : night sweats, aggression, loss of appetite, insomnia-
> 
> These sides I believe are mediated by different pathways entirely. Mostly the binding of tren to the beta-3 receptors and   adrenergic receptors. This is also what causes the burnt out feeling after a few months as well, the over stimulation severely down regulates these pathways.



I agree. His thread was good but it's all been mentioned in the past and all common knowledge if you have been on pro muscle awhile. Although that doesn't stop people creating tren threads every single day  

I think the control of estrogen is key when using 19-nors. That is a prime reason why low test high tren can significantly reduce the sides associated with tren. Control estrogen from the test (keep test low) and other hormones should be minimized. As JJ mentioned Caber is great to have on hand especially for tren. Although the longer you stay on such things the more likely other things will begin to occur such as what Enigmatic mentioned. On deca I also like to add 40mg mast p everyday later in a cycle for a boost if needed.


----------



## GeauxDATY (May 24, 2013)

Good read, thanks.


----------



## LuKiFeR (May 24, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> Yeah me too. My aggression was really bad.  I wonder if running it with low test helps to lower aggression too?



im gona try Tren again towards the fall i think. i swore i wldnt touch it again...but maybe.....just maybe.....i might try the low test/high tren bit. 
As u know....i hav a hard time controling my dose strengths and frequencies......so not injecting massive amounts of test is gona be a challenge.
i made tren a cpl times years ago...and ran the tren i won from Endo @ 100mg eod and then 50mg eod and still had CRAZY thoughts/sides. so...i gave ALL OF IT to a friend. lol. Test was cyp and prop 1ml of each eod.

Mayb itll b like this...
Test prop 50mg eod
Tren Ace-50 increased to 75...100...150...200 and so on. testing out each dose.
Mast-200mg eod

AAAAAAAAAND...


Yup....u guessed it...

PROVIRON-100mg ed. .  lol


----------



## Enigmatic707 (May 24, 2013)

LuKiFeR said:


> im gona try Tren again towards the fall i think. i swore i wldnt touch it again...but maybe.....just maybe.....i might try the low test/high tren bit.
> As u know....i hav a hard time controling my dose strengths and frequencies......so not injecting massive amounts of test is gona be a challenge.
> i made tren a cpl times years ago...and ran the tren i won from Endo @ 100mg eod and then 50mg eod and still had CRAZY thoughts/sides. so...i gave ALL OF IT to a friend. lol. Test was cyp and prop 1ml of each eod.
> 
> ...



LoL


----------



## nothuman (May 24, 2013)

dudcki27 said:


> So your actually trying to say that with tren and lower test you won't grow? So it has nothing to do with feed efficiency or nutrient partioning and nitrogen retention? All of which tren is superior at than any other steroid. More meat (muscle) with less food is the only reason they use it on cattle. You can grow just fine on 100mgs of ace a day with around 150mgs of test a week.



I didn't mean it LITERALLY. Of course you will still grow on low test/high tren. You just grow better on high of both, which has been my experience and many others' experiences as well.


----------



## Enigmatic707 (May 24, 2013)

MoneyShot said:


> I didn't mean it LITERALLY. Of course you will still grow on low test/high tren. You just grow better on high of both, which has been my experience and many others' experiences as well.



I almost never ever go over a trt dose of Test... For me personally it's almost counter productive. Seems as though I'm the minority when it comes to test


----------



## nothuman (May 25, 2013)

Enigmatic707 said:


> I almost never ever go over a trt dose of Test... For me personally it's almost counter productive. Seems as though I'm the minority when it comes to test



I must also say I gained all my size with high test and when i ran high tren and high npp with trt test, i didnt really improve. Had I done that sooner, maybe it would have been different. I guess I'll never know.


----------



## Enigmatic707 (May 25, 2013)

MoneyShot said:


> I must also say I gained all my size with high test and when i ran high tren and high npp with trt test, i didnt really improve. Had I done that sooner, maybe it would have been different. I guess I'll never know.



As far as test goes for me- I'm an one of the "non responders" I can take 2g a week and all I get is bloat and acne... But the results are the same as 350mg ew... I wish high doses of Test did slab on mass for me


----------



## amateurmale (May 25, 2013)

I blew up and grew like a fertilized weed on tren.  My dose was 350mgs tren ace, 300 mgs test cyp and 500 mgs mast enan.


----------



## chrisr116 (May 25, 2013)

Enigmatic707 said:


> As far as test goes for me- I'm an one of the "non responders" I can take 2g a week and all I get is bloat and acne... But the results are the same as 350mg ew... I wish high doses of Test did slab on mass for me



It is interesting how the same compounds can affect different people differently. People talk about aggression from high test and trenboline.  I am actually much more calm when I am on cycle than off.  I can also take 1.5 grams of test all cycle without a single side effect.  Tren does make my veins much more pronounced and leans me out tremendously.


----------



## Enigmatic707 (May 25, 2013)

chrisr116 said:


> It is interesting how the same compounds can affect different people differently. People talk about aggression from high test and trenboline.  I am actually much more calm when I am on cycle than off.  I can also take 1.5 grams of test all cycle without a single side effect.  Tren does make my veins much more pronounced and leans me out tremendously.



Yeah it's funny how touchy people get on other forums when you say something or state your own personal experience that differs from theirs... 

I know guys who slam 1.5g of test and they are tight as hell without any bloat and that's without the use of an AI too... 
Or people who take 1g of EQ and get nothing, as where me I can take 600 and put on a lot of mass with just a mere 600... 

People just don't realize how unique each persons body chemistry is.


----------



## Big-John (May 27, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> I blew up and grew like a fertilized weed on tren.  My dose was 350mgs tren ace, 300 mgs test cyp and 500 mgs mast enan.



This looks a lot like my next cycle...


----------



## lunchbox31 (May 27, 2013)

Good read, I've read it several times at various other sources...good read though.


----------



## amateurmale (May 28, 2013)

Big-John said:


> This looks a lot like my next cycle...




I'd drop the mast.  Just test and tren.


----------



## Big-John (May 28, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> I'd drop the mast.  Just test and tren.



Why drop it?


----------



## LuKiFeR (May 28, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> I'd drop the mast.  Just test and tren.



Whaaaaat? 
why do that?
did u know AM...That Masteron is like liquid Proviron? lol

but seriously...

Masteron works great with all cycles...especially test/tren.
its proven and many will vougue..Test/Tren/Mast...is one of...if not thee...best cycles.

i say keep the Mast...mayb even up the dose.


----------



## Enigmatic707 (May 28, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> I'd drop the mast.  Just test and tren.



Run a cycle without Mast!!?!?!? Blasphemy!!!! I'm gonna tell Lukifer what ya said and you're gonna be in big big trouble mister!


----------



## LuKiFeR (May 28, 2013)

Enigmatic707 said:


> Run a cycle without Mast!!?!?!? Blasphemy!!!! I'm gonna tell Lukifer what ya said and you're gonna be in big big trouble mister!



Bawahahaha!!! youre lucky i like u AM.


----------



## amateurmale (May 29, 2013)

yes ive ran the test, mast, tren  cycle.   the reason i say drop it is to avoid sides.  no mast helps free up a little more "room" so to speak for tren.


----------



## LuKiFeR (May 29, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> yes ive ran the test, mast, tren  cycle.   the reason i say drop it is to avoid sides.  no mast helps free up a little more "room" so to speak for tren.



i think..personally...a 1,2,3 ratio..or however u say it.
test-200mg
tren-400mg
mast-600mg

i dnt get any sides from mast except mayb hard time pissin bc of enlargment...
the tren is what gives me the sides. everyones different...i no.
why cant we all be the same.....all be equal!!!  lol


----------



## chrisr116 (May 29, 2013)

I like Mast cause it keeps my estrogen levels down, and don't have to run an anti-estrogen.


----------



## LuKiFeR (May 30, 2013)

chrisr116 said:


> I like Mast cause it keeps my estrogen levels down, and don't have to run an anti-estrogen.



exactly!!  i never use(d) an AI(Adex,Aromasin..etc). Proviron and/or Masteron is the only thing i use.  last time i used deca...i got a lil bit of gyno and used Letro for a bit alongside the Proviron n Masteron to get rid of it. but since then...just Proviron n Masteron!!


----------



## amateurmale (May 31, 2013)

chrisr116 said:


> I like Mast cause it keeps my estrogen levels down, and don't have to run an anti-estrogen.




I ran 600mgs mast and my estor came back at a whopping 123!

I'd bet money u guys have high estrogen...big time!   If you're getting gyno from it, even a little, then your shit is waaaayyyyy up there. Like tumor growing high bro!

Guys that don't run AI are asking for problems. Estrogen does a lot more than just give you bitch tits.  For example, DEATH is a side effect.


----------



## LuKiFeR (May 31, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> I ran 600mgs mast and my estor came back at a whopping 123!
> 
> I'd bet money u guys have high estrogen...big time!   If you're getting gyno from it, even a little, then your shit is waaaayyyyy up there. Like tumor growing high bro!
> 
> Guys that don't run AI are asking for problems. Estrogen does a lot more than just give you bitch tits.  For example, DEATH is a side effect.



haha

on a serious note...i know what ya mean. i agree with u.
but i can feel when my estro is up and when its not. 
Not being horny while taking Test/Mast/Proviron....thats one. lol
puffy nips(usually the first sign...for me) and 1 or 2 others.
Only time i have real issues with bitch tits n other things is mainly with Deca. sometimes Dbol too.

But AM... could hav been a couple things that caused your high estro.
1. Estro rebound
2. Fake AI(or under dosed)
3. Fake Masteron(or under dosed)
 among others...also possibly the "Masteron" was actually Deca or something like that(different roid than label stated)

Im not saying you DID HAVE fake/under dosed gear.... but its a possibility.

and aside from the rebound...theres lots of others that can cause that.

my advice...
1. take proviron everyday 100mg
2. take Masteron at TRT dose alongside your TRT test.
3. SPEND MORE TIME WITH YOUR BOYS...IN THE MAN-CAVE WATCHING FOOTBALL!!!  :headbang:


----------



## Enigmatic707 (May 31, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> I ran 600mgs mast and my estor came back at a whopping 123!
> 
> I'd bet money u guys have high estrogen...big time!   If you're getting gyno from it, even a little, then your shit is waaaayyyyy up there. Like tumor growing high bro!
> 
> Guys that don't run AI are asking for problems. Estrogen does a lot more than just give you bitch tits.  For example, DEATH is a side effect.



Masteron and Proviron actually lower estrogen. All DHT analogs do to a degree but Proviron the most.

"The conversion process happens when the testosterone molecule attaches to the aromatase receptor and there the enzyme breaks it down (by removing the C19 methyl group, creating three, alternating double bonds in the A ring and the double bonded oxygen is reduced to a hydroxyl group) to produce estradiol. If you have another androgen that will bind to that receptor, that won't convert to estrogen, you are blocking the aromatase and therefore cutting back on the conversion process."


----------



## amateurmale (May 31, 2013)

LuKiFeR said:


> haha
> 
> on a serious note...i know what ya mean. i agree with u.
> but i can feel when my estro is up and when its not.
> ...





Let me be as clear as possible. 

 NO ONE CAN "FEEL" WHEN THEIR ESTROGEN IS HIGH.  YOU  MAY "FEEL" IT WHEN ITS REALLY, REALLY HIGH, BUT IF ITS IN THE 60's-70's YOU WILL NOT FEEL IT EVEN THOUGH ITS HIGHER THAN A WOMAN ON HER PERIOD.

NOBODY IS THAT GOOD!!!  PERIOD!


TAKE AN AI AND LIVE LONG......DONT TAKE AN AI AND ILL SEND FLOWERS.


----------



## lunchbox31 (Jun 3, 2013)

amateurmale said:


> Let me be as clear as possible.
> 
> NO ONE CAN "FEEL" WHEN THEIR ESTROGEN IS HIGH.  YOU  MAY "FEEL" IT WHEN ITS REALLY, REALLY HIGH, BUT IF ITS IN THE 60's-70's YOU WILL NOT FEEL IT EVEN THOUGH ITS HIGHER THAN A WOMAN ON HER PERIOD.
> 
> ...




Well said!


----------



## J.Lizzle (Jun 24, 2013)

why is it then even now on just 100mg Test E a week, 50mg Tren ace a day im like a walking fountain...

After a light warm up set in the gym im out of breath and sweating.
After a proper set im literally dripping an wanting to breathe in air bad.
Dont get night sweats but sweat after a little 2minute walk and can feel my back dripping.

Peeees me off tbh! 

People say magic happens at like 150mg ed...id love to run like 500below maintenance, some HIIT cardio 2-3times a week just for fitness with 150mg Tren,100mg mast ed...150mg test prop a week with oxys for fullness...but got no chance. I reckon even below maintenance you would transform on that!

Thoughts? Sides are awful atm! Its hindering my gains cos i cant physically train hard in the gym as i feel that dead! Like with no tren i'd breathe better, feel better im sure so would probs train better and harder..


----------



## mikeystrong (Jun 25, 2013)

this changes everything... I was turning to mast for my next cycle (winter) because everybody I talked to scared me away with the TREN SIDES SPEACH. now wtf lol... deca or tren are options...


----------



## swolesearcher (Jun 25, 2013)

thanks a lot BigJohn for the sharing... very interesting thread


----------



## J.Lizzle (Jun 25, 2013)

@amateurmale

Would you take an AI regardless of test dose?
I had full gyno gland removal like 2years ago and not taken an ai since..other than "mast" which i know isnt a real AI.


----------



## jimmy_jones (Jun 27, 2013)

Good evening


----------



## dudcki27 (Jun 27, 2013)

jimmy_jones said:


> Good evening



Welcome,jj


----------

