# joint supp. vs. test levels



## dpac207 (Nov 16, 2004)

anyone ever heard that joint supplements(glucosamine, msm, csa) lower test 
levels?


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## dpac207 (Nov 17, 2004)

guess not


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## tee (Nov 18, 2004)

I never heard that. Did someone tell you that or did you read it somewhere?


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## DragonRider (Nov 19, 2004)

Never heard that either, but I've read recently that Flax seed oil at 4-5 tbs a day is better for your joints than glucosamine and chondroiten. I'm trying it now because those two supplements don't do anything for me. 

If you can find the article that states it lowers test, we would like to read it. Post it over here.


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## dpac207 (Nov 19, 2004)

nah, just heard it from a friend, is the flax seed working for your dragon rider?
i never noticed much from the others either


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## DragonRider (Nov 20, 2004)

I just started, so I will try to update if I start seeing results.

Another product being used on other boards is Adequan. It's a vet medicine for horses and canines with joint problems.

A friend of mine has used and many others this vet product and 
claim it heals joints permantly in animals and in humans but not yet FDA approved.

If you are searching for a product that treats both the symptoms and the underlying degenerative disease process of horses' joint problems, Adequan ® may be a good choice.

First, Adequan has important antiinflammatory effects, so it is able to provide relief from the symptoms of joint damage: heat, swelling, pain and lameness. And Adequan can be found in synovial fluid at full therapeutic levels within only two hours of an intramuscular injection. Also, Adequan is a product with potent ability to block the action of the destructive enzymes that threaten to perpetuate the joint inflammation, attack the cartilage and break down synovial fluid.

Second, Adequan also stimulates the synovial membrane to manufacture new, viscous synovial fluid to replace the thin fluid that was produced when the joint became injured. By improving this fluid, Adequan helps the joint regain its ability to lubricate and guard itself against further inflammation, and helps reestablish nutrition to the cartilage.

And, Adequan attaches itself to damaged cartilage where it has a positive effect on cartilage metabolism. This should favor the cartilage repair process.

Adequan is the only joint treatment proven to reduce the inflammation and pain of degenerative joint disease, but also to help stop the degenerative process while stimulating the production of new joint fluid and new cartilage components. You are no longer just treating symptoms: you're doing something to help stop the degenerative process.

DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION: The recommended dose of Adequan IM in horses is 500mg every 4 days for 28 days intramuscularly. The injection site must be thoroughly cleansed prior to injection. Do not mix Adequan IM with other drugs or solvents.

Comes in 500mg/5ml glass vials


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## DragonRider (Nov 20, 2004)

Additional Information:

Description: The active ingredient in Adequan ® is polysulfated glycosaminoglycan (PSGAG). Polysulfated glycosaminoglycan is a semi-synthetic glycosaminoglycan prepared by extracting glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) from bovine tracheal cartilage. GAGs are polysaccharides composed of repeating disaccharide units. The GAG present in PSGAG is principally chondroitin sulfate containing 3 to 4 sulfate esters per disaccharide unit. The molecular weight for PSGAG used in the manufacture of Adequan ® is 3,000 to 15,000 daltons.

some research done by hooker:

Now, check this out: As a side effect IM administration of 500mgs E4D for 12 weeks of PSGAG, the mean test subject showed roughly a 13.5% increase in bodyweight! Yeah, you read that correctly. Not only does this stuff help heal joint injuries, it may be anabolic! This may be due to the fact that it elevates both White blood cell count as well as the Polymorphonuclear cells. Also of note is that it elevates lymphocytes.

So how much of this stuff should a 200lb bodybuilder take? Well, ideally, I’d say 125mgs, IM, every 4 days.  This should be done for at least 28 days, and possibly for as long as twice that. 

How much will it cost? Well, a 5ml, 100mg/ml bottle is going to set you back about $50. And if you’re taking it as I recommend, then each bottle (vial) will last you 16 days, so you’ll need at least 2-5 bottles. It’s also sold, similarly priced in the ever-inconvenient 5ml amps.


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## dpac207 (Nov 23, 2004)

sounds like good stuff, i wonder if the injection is painful


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## dpac207 (Nov 24, 2004)

ordered a bottle will keep y'all updated


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## DragonRider (Nov 24, 2004)

dpac207 said:
			
		

> ordered a bottle will keep y'all updated


How many milligrams is it? I've read the humans can get by with 50mg every 4 days up to 28 days and then a maintenance dose of 50mg every 28 days thereafter.


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## tee (Nov 24, 2004)

Sounds like something that would do my old bones good.


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## dpac207 (Nov 28, 2004)

its a 5 ml vial at 100mg/ml


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## DragonRider (Nov 28, 2004)

dpac207 said:
			
		

> its a 5 ml vial at 100mg/ml


My understanding is, the equine version comes in a 500mg total vial and has no BA and the canine version comes in 100mg vials and has BA. If you aren't going to inject the full 5ml you may want to add BA to it to help preserve it ands keep it sterile. Look at the ingrediant panel first to see if it contains BA.


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## dpac207 (Dec 1, 2004)

i'm having a little trouble actually getting the bottle, company requires a prescrip from the vet and im triing to bs my way past it


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## wolfyEVH (Dec 1, 2004)

dpac207 said:
			
		

> i'm having a little trouble actually getting the bottle, company requires a prescrip from the vet and im triing to bs my way past it




you should be able to get it on the web....just like finaplix-h pellets.


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## heavy (Dec 1, 2004)

Deca is great for joint pain too, its one of its FDA approves uses. Dragon, are you using this adequan stuff? Let us know how it works out...I also noticed you posted this...

"This may be due to the fact that it elevates both White blood cell count as well as the Polymorphonuclear cells. Also of note is that it elevates lymphocytes."

This could be really good for steroid users, as some roids lower lymphocytes and white blood cell counts, especially tren, so this could be good to keep a strong immune system while on.


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## DragonRider (Dec 1, 2004)

dpac207 said:
			
		

> i'm having a little trouble actually getting the bottle, company requires a prescrip from the vet and im triing to bs my way past it


The company I oredered from said they needed a script, but I waited a few days and they sent it anyways.


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## dpac207 (Dec 2, 2004)

i called and they said they wanted to call my vet so he could ok the prescrip, so i gave them my cell number, they called a few minutes later and brother acted like he was the vet, and ok'd it for two refills, i guess they must not be too strict


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## heavy (Dec 2, 2004)

dpac207 said:
			
		

> i called and they said they wanted to call my vet so he could ok the prescrip, so i gave them my cell number, they called a few minutes later and brother acted like he was the vet, and ok'd it for two refills, i guess they must not be too strict


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## DragonRider (Dec 2, 2004)

Whatever works.


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## dpac207 (Dec 6, 2004)

received today and took first injection this afternoon


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## dpac207 (Dec 7, 2004)

my elbows have bothered me the past few years to the point where i stopped doing triceps, i recently started doing light pressdowns but using heavier weight was still painful, did pressdowns today and went heavier than i've gone in a long time with hardly any discomfort, also didn't notice some of the smaller aches and pains i usually feel when doing chest, stuff seems to be pretty effective


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