# Powder Displacement for Blends?



## Sqwattz (Aug 3, 2013)

I'm assuming you'd just take the sum of the known powder displacements and divide that by the number of compounds that you're using. Correct? I'm thinking there has to be a more accurate method to doing this than using the powder calculator. Besides, there are some compounds I want to use for which I cannot find the powder displacement or the density anywhere including Mast E and DHB Cyp. I saw a brief mention in a thread on here about using a graduated cylinder to get the most accurate doses but there was no detail on what the process would look like doing this. Can anyone provide some detail on how this would be done? Or if there is a better method than that? For arguments sake how wood the good folks over at Schering or Organon go about measuring their ingredients?


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 3, 2013)

Make 2 seperate batches then mix after...lol squattz u sure make it complicated...why do you even need a blend? Take compoud A draw desired dose then draw up compound B into same syringe and inject....boom all done


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

I'm after mastery Bull. You know the old saying "anything worth doing is worth doing right." You should see me reloading my rifle cartridges.


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## FamBam209 (Aug 4, 2013)

Scale n mathematics


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 4, 2013)

Sqwattz said:


> I'm after mastery Bull. You know the old saying "anything worth doing is worth doing right." You should see me reloading my rifle cartridges.



Well id like to think i would load bullets as accurate as possible. ..


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

Bull_Nuts said:


> Well id like to think i would load bullets as accurate as possible. ..



Right. My feelings on gear as well.


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

FamBam209 said:


> Scale n mathematics



Care to elaborate on that a bit?


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 4, 2013)

Sqwattz said:


> Care to elaborate on that a bit?



If x and y are your compounds and 1g of x takes up (a)(with (a) representing spatial displacement) then your displacement should be x=1g(a) and y=1g(a) the sum of total displacement is x+y...me thinks...multiplied by total gram amount respectively


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

Bull_Nuts said:


> If x and y are your compounds and 1g of x takes up (a)(with (a) representing spatial displacement) then your displacement should be x=1g(a) and y=1g(a) the sum of total displacement is x+y...me thinks...multiplied by total gram amount respectively



What happens when you don't know the spatial displacement of 1 gram of x. How do you go about measuring this?


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

I'm gonna google measuring the displacement of a solid(the powder) in a liquid(the oil and the solvents) and see what I come up with. The thing is I'm not sure if 1 gram of whatever will displace the liquid differently based on the type of liquids you use meaning different types of oils or whatever. I should have stayed in school. LOL.


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## greggy (Aug 4, 2013)

Look in this forum for AAS Powder Displacement.  It was posted by Powders. Its what your looking for. I think it's on page 3 or 4.


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

Not for nothing, but thinking about this logically for a second why do I even need to concern myself with powder displacements and calculations if I just did things like this to make a blend of say 75mg Test E/75mg Mast E/75mg Primo E per ml. I want to make 100ml. 

1) Tare the scale with the beaker on it. Add 7.5 grams Test E, 7.5 grams Mast E & 7.5 grams Primo E. 
2) Using BA/BB @ 2/20 Add 2cc's BA & 20cc's BB from a syringe to the beaker.
3) Heat and stir till I have a clear solution.
4) Take the beaker off the heat and add GSO up to the 97 ml marking(leaving 3cc's aside to flush the filter with)
5) Reheat and Restir
6) Filter
7) Flush 3cc's oil through the filter
8) Transfer to sterile vials 

Boom. Done. Wouldn't that give me a perfectly dosed final product. Why would I need to trifle with powder displacements-isn't the displacement built into the measurement. I must be missing something but I don't see how. Anyone?


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## highdrum (Aug 4, 2013)

Get yourself a retort, put say, 5cc oil/solvent mixture, weight out 1 gram of your desired powder, mix it with your oil/solvent mix till fully dissolved, and see how much your mix has increased in volume.  That will be your displacement that you will use in your calculator.  If you want to know what a blend will do, if your using equal parts of the blend, just add all the powders to the solution and see what the displacement is.  Pretty simple actually.  You can always use that experiment solution in your filtered batch and not waste any of your powders.


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## highdrum (Aug 4, 2013)

Sqwattz said:


> Not for nothing, but thinking about this logically for a second why do I even need to concern myself with powder displacements and calculations if I just did things like this to make a blend of say 75mg Test E/75mg Mast E/75mg Primo E per ml. I want to make 100ml.
> 
> 1) Tare the scale with the beaker on it. Add 7.5 grams Test E, 7.5 grams Mast E & 7.5 grams Primo E.
> 2) Using BA/BB @ 2/20 Add 2cc's BA & 20cc's BB from a syringe to the beaker.
> ...



You need to calculate the displacement of the three powders being added, and subtract that from your oil carrier.  You never adjust that from your 2%/20% of BA/BB cuz that's a percentage of total solution.  If you don't subtract the displacement, you end up with more volume than you planned for, at a lower dose of coarse than planned as well.  To get the powder displacements, use my process in my previous post.


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

highdrum said:


> Get yourself a retort, put say, 5cc oil/solvent mixture, weight out 1 gram of your desired powder, mix it with your oil/solvent mix till fully dissolved, and see how much your mix has increased in volume.  That will be your displacement that you will use in your calculator.  If you want to know what a blend will do, if your using equal parts of the blend, just add all the powders to the solution and see what the displacement is.  Pretty simple actually.  You can always use that experiment solution in your filtered batch and not waste any of your powders.



Alright great. I don't know what a retort is right now but I'll find out. And so if I was gonna test this out using a 5cc mixture I'd use .1 ccs BA, 1 cc BB, & 3.9 ccs of Oil so that the ratios would still be exactly the same as what I planned in the finished product. I guess I'd need a beaker that took extremely tiny measurements to make this work as well.


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

highdrum said:


> You need to calculate the displacement of the three powders being added, and subtract that from your oil carrier.  You never adjust that from your 2%/20% of BA/BB cuz that's a percentage of total solution.  If you don't subtract the displacement, you end up with more volume than you planned for, at a lower dose of coarse than planned as well.  To get the powder displacements, use my process in my previous post.



I guess I'm not understanding powder displacement. I thought it was basically how much the powder increased the volume of the liquid. In my simple mind I see it as the powder "pushing out" the liquid so that the solution occupies more total space than the sum of the liquids. If I've put my powder into solution with the BA/BB (22.5 grams of Powder + 2mls BA + 20mls BB) hasn't the powder already displaced those two liquids and won't that volume increase be reflected in the mls of solution I now have in my beaker? I then add the oil until I get to my target total milliliters which in this case is 100 (I'd have 22mls of Solvent and for the purpose of illustration let's say the 22.5 grams of Powder gave me an additional 22mls so that I now see 44mls in the beeker. I would then add 56mls of oil as balance to get a total of 100mls). So in the end, given my example, I'd have a total of 22.5 grams of gear in a liquid solution with a volume of 100ml. Wouldn't that be exactly what I wanted? 225mg/ml.


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## highdrum (Aug 4, 2013)

That works, however your 100ml mark on your beaker is only accurate to +-7% something like that.  The ML hash marks aren't guranteed, most beakers or manufacurers disclaimer that information, I usually first heat my carrier, add raws, then BB, heat to clear fully melted solution, then add my BA, so knowing the exact chemical displacements b4 hand is important, I never go off of beaker markers, if you using larger syringe, say 30 or 50ml and checking your volume that way, you also good to go.


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

highdrum said:


> That works, however your 100ml mark on your beaker is only accurate to +-7% something like that.  The ML hash marks aren't guranteed, most beakers or manufacurers disclaimer that information, I usually first heat my carrier, add raws, then BB, heat to clear fully melted solution, then add my BA, so knowing the exact chemical displacements b4 hand is important, I never go off of beaker markers, if you using larger syringe, say 30 or 50ml and checking your volume that way, you also good to go.



Alright glad to know I'm at least on the right track. I definitely wasn't aware that you couldn't count on a beeker for 100 percent accuracy. I see why you do things the way you do now. Anyway, thanks a lot for the advice brother.


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## Sqwattz (Aug 4, 2013)

Hey I just read about beakers-was curious to what people use when they want to make an accurate solution and I came across volumetric flasks which are said to be accurate up to .1 %. The only thing is their shape makes it look like it would make using a glass stir rod impossible. Do you think if I decided to use one of these I could hold the flask in some tongs and swirl around over the heat to get the desired effect?


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 4, 2013)

Could always measure out total volume and mark it on your beaker...

Put your ba/bb, and preweighed product, a little carrier oil warm slightly to dissolve...the fill beaker to pre-measured mark with carrier oil and thats it...


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## highdrum (Aug 4, 2013)

That works as well, but only with one volume, compound, and concentration.  You'd need re-measure and re-mark for every unknown compound displacement.  Luckily most displacements can be found somewhere online.


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 4, 2013)

highdrum said:


> That works as well, but only with one volume, compound, and concentration.  You'd need re-measure and re-mark for every unknown compound displacement.  Luckily most displacements can be found somewhere online.



Bs...You can put more than one compound just as long as the total saturation point isnt exceded...


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## Sqwattz (Aug 5, 2013)

Bull_Nuts said:


> Could always measure out total volume and mark it on your beaker...
> 
> Put your ba/bb, and preweighed product, a little carrier oil warm slightly to dissolve...the fill beaker to pre-measured mark with carrier oil and thats it...



Yes..seems like another good idea. I'm starting to see that there's many ways to get this done. I guess I'll try it a few different ways and see which I'm most comfortable with. I'd like to be able to send out a few samples to see which method is giving me the most accurate results, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get this type of testing done in the U.S. Guess I got more homework to do.


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 5, 2013)

Sqwattz said:


> Yes..seems like another good idea. I'm starting to see that there's many ways to get this done. I guess I'll try it a few different ways and see which I'm most comfortable with. I'd like to be able to send out a few samples to see which method is giving me the most accurate results, but I'm not sure how easy it is to get this type of testing done in the U.S. Guess I got more homework to do.



Ill test it for you


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## Sqwattz (Aug 5, 2013)

LOL - I would but I'm pretty sure I'd have to send you some gorilla hormones to get you to see or feel any difference beyond what you're already running .


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## highdrum (Aug 5, 2013)

Bull_Nuts said:


> Bs...You can put more than one compound just as long as the total saturation point isnt exceded...



I just went thought about my answer, yes you're correct.  I just see this process in different steps, probably different equipment as well.


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 12, 2013)

Woot woot....im not often correct...seriously...especially according to my wife,..


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