# Rep Ranges



## Concreteguy (Dec 6, 2017)

IMO it's 6 to 8  or 8 to 12 for optimum muscle hypertrophy. 

6 to 8 for slow twitch, type II muscle fibers. 8 to 12 for the same targeted fibers it's just different for some body types. That's something that must be individually figured out. This is M.O on optimum mass training. I also feel that four to five excersizes per body part with a finished total around 16 to twenty sets is optimum. IMO you must fail the muscle totally with no forced reps in each set performed. The last set of every exercise should be a rest pause, burn down to absolute failure with as many partial reps that can be performed. Can higher reps achieve muscle hypertrophy? Of course. Is it much safer? Of course. But this is about the *Best way to grow*.

 These are just my opinions on this. Not challenging anyone.

How have you guys found to be the best way to train for optimum mass?


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## Sully (Dec 6, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> How have you guys found to be the best way to train for optimum mass?



Yes and no. It’s not so much about the rep range that’s employed, it’s about the total amount of work done in the workout. I’ll define work really quick. 

Work= weight x reps x sets

Work is cumulative, both for an entire session in the gym, and also over the course of a week or so, depending on how frequently you train.

One of the big advantages to tracking work in this way is that it lets you change the workout by doing either more or less reps, while still doing roughly the same amount of work, simply by varying the amount of weight used. Of course, the ultimate goal is not to do the same amount of work each day, but to increase it slightly each time. This is actually easier to do with lighter weights and higher reps, which is where the a lot of the value of high rep days comes in. One can structure the workout to be the same amount of work as a low rep day, but by adding in just 1-3 more reps in each set the total amount of work done in that workout is increased. 

There are distinct advantages to doing both high, low and mid rep workouts. For an experienced, trained individual, the research definitely indicates that Daily Undulating Periodization is the optimum training regimen for both strength and hypertrophy. It constantly presents the body with a new stimulus that forces adaptation in the muscle fibers, which ends in hypertrophy and increased strength. 

If I have time later today I’ll link a few studies and articles that explain it better/more thoroughly.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 6, 2017)

Type 1 fast twitch is responsible for carrying oxygen and endurance. Type 2 is for strength and mass. While your digging around google inquire about training type2 for BBing. You may be surprised?


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## Sully (Dec 6, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Type 1 fast twitch is responsible for carrying oxygen and endurance. Type 2 is for strength and mass. While your digging around google inquire about training type2 for BBing. You may be surprised?



I have, and it’s not that simple. Perhaps you should dig up the biopsy studies that showed that the top level athletes in almost all sports, including bodybuilding, had predominantly type 1 muscle fibers. 

And just for clarification, 20-25 reps hardly qualifies as endurance training. A few more reps at a lower weight doesn’t suddenly become a completely different form of training that is focusing on a different type of muscle fiber. It’s still strength training, just with a modulated stimulus to force a slightly different adaptation in the body.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 6, 2017)

Hey I don't want to get in a pissing match with ya friend. I just don't agree with the above post about rep ranges. That's all.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 6, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> IMO it's 6 to 8  or 8 to 12 for optimum muscle hypertrophy.
> 
> 6 to 8 for *(FAST) *twitch, type II muscle fibers. 8 to 12 for the same targeted fibers it's just different for some body types. That's something that must be individually figured out. This is M.O on optimum mass training. I also feel that four to five exercises per body part with a finished total around 16 to twenty sets is optimum. IMO you must fail the muscle totally with no forced reps in each set performed. The last set of every exercise should be a rest pause, burn down to absolute failure with as many partial reps that can be performed. Can higher reps achieve muscle hypertrophy? Of course. Is it much safer? Of course. But this is about the *Best way to grow*.
> 
> ...



Sully, I made a correction in my OP.  

Hey please go to YouTube and search "training type two, fast twitch muscle fibers". Please.....


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## ProFIT (Dec 7, 2017)

I change all the time but usually in the 6-12 rep range. Been adding in more lower rep sets recently (5-8 reps). I usually up the weight and lower the reps as I go. Although last week started doing 5 sets of 5-8 reps all to failure. On the last set for deads I got 4 reps so knew it was time to finish.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 7, 2017)

I don't know how to copy and paste YT vids or I would bring over this stuff. It's got science and is really convincing.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 7, 2017)

[ame]https://youtu.be/jal4ZkfvKrI[/ame]
Give it a chance before just beaming it guys.


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## Sully (Dec 7, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Hey I don't want to get in a pissing match with ya friend. I just don't agree with the above post about rep ranges. That's all.



Pissing match? I’m not sure why you would think that was happening. I thought we were having a civil discussion about a minor difference of opinion. It actually says quite a lot about a person that when someone else offers a different point of view, they automatically perceive it as some sort of adversarial confrontation. 

The worst part is, you think I’m disagreeing with you, but I’m really not. I’m just suggesting that maybe there’s a little more to the equation. Type 1 and 2 muscle fibers is not the huge mitigating factor that athletes and trainers want it to be. Even the scientists that have done the studies have said that the whole type 1 & 2 issue has been blown out of proportion by the training community and isn’t the silver bullet that they thought it was, initially. 

If all you focus on is Mona Lisa’s eyes, you miss a bunch of other important things in the painting.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 7, 2017)

Sully, I thought we were talking about training?lol

Hey on a lighter note, did you see the smiley face at the end of the post about not getting in a pissing match? That smiley face probably speaks volumes about me as well. Your not going democrat on me and insinuating micro aggressions are ya buddy?


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## AGGRO (Dec 7, 2017)

I also change but most sets are over 10 reps for me. Pushing the weight too much never ends well for me. Chest, shoulders and back are closer to 10 reps. Arms and legs are higher and about 15 reps on average.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 7, 2017)

Ya, at my age I start getting the aches and pains as I shorten the rep range moving up in weight. For me it's about survival. I don't want any more injuries. I have torn a bicep, lower lat and the top of a tear drop.


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## Sully (Dec 8, 2017)

Even though I know you’re not actually interested in information that doesn’t back up your position, I’ll leave this here for those that want to explore the topic a little more throroughly. 

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-fiber-type/


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## Viking (Dec 8, 2017)

Sully said:


> Even though I know you’re not actually interested in information that doesn’t back up your position, I’ll leave this here for those that want to explore the topic a little more throroughly.
> 
> https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-fiber-type/



Good info. I personally have never gone by the tradtional rep ranges. As you know 1 size doesn't fit all and for me it's more about trying different systems to shock the muscles and keep training different. There is a place for all rep ranges.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 8, 2017)

Sully said:


> Even though I know you’re not actually interested in information that doesn’t back up your position, I’ll leave this here for those that want to explore the topic a little more throroughly.
> 
> https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-fiber-type/



You keep making assumptions and direct insults. Couldn't you have just posted this directly to the guys you think want to read it? 

 Hey, Happy Holidays Sully!!!


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## mytreefiddy (Dec 8, 2017)

Viking said:


> As you know 1 size doesn't fit all and for me it's more about trying different systems to shock the muscles and keep training different. There is a place for all rep ranges.



This right here 100%.....


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## Concreteguy (Dec 8, 2017)

Sully I found this video to help make BOTH our points.
JM is parodyzing his reps and loads but keeps coming back to 8 reps as a base. I have also seen many vids were he's doing a zillion reps. But I don't think you can do this kind of thing as a staple in your training. Maybe you can? It's just not for me.

The point of my OP was to listen to other opinions of what works best for "them". Not a who's right or wrong. What I described is what works for me and why I believe it does. That's all.  Would you like to describe a typical training session for yourself you think works best for you? 

 [ame]https://youtu.be/tE3rSKV96ow[/ame]


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## odin (Dec 8, 2017)

8 to 12 for me. With the occasional powerlifting routine added in just to change things.


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## Sully (Dec 9, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Sully I found this video to help make BOTH our points.
> JM is parodyzing his reps and loads but keeps coming back to 8 reps as a base. I have also seen many vids were he's doing a zillion reps. But I don't think you can do this kind of thing as a staple in your training. Maybe you can? It's just not for me.
> 
> The point of my OP was to listen to other opinions of what works best for "them". Not a who's right or wrong. What I described is what works for me and why I believe it does. That's all.  Would you like to describe a typical training session for yourself you think works best for you?
> ...



I go where the science takes me. In my first post I talked about it. DUP, or Daily Undulating Periodization, is a training style that constantly changes the weight and rep ranges of each workout to keep the stimulus that the muscle experiences changing, which in turn causes the muscle to constantly be in a state of adaptation. That adaptation takes 2 forms, hypertrophy and strength, but those 2 are not mutually exclusive. There is a strong relationship between the 2. 

My standard training routine changes frequently depending on my goals, or which body part I’m currently targeting for the most growth. Let’s say for example that right now I’m trying to bring up my chest. The best way to do this is to increase the volume of chest work I do in a week. 

Let me define a couple things for the sake of brevity before I lay it all out. 

Low rep: 6-8 reps with enough weight that I can barely hit that rep range on the first working set, with 1 warm up set of very low weight to check form

Medium reps: 10-12 reps, same story on weight

High reps: 20-25 reps, same story on weight, warm up is usually only 15 reps at most

So here's what my routine would look like:

Day 1: Chest and tri’s medium rep 
Day 2: Back and bi’s medium rep
Day 3: Chest and tri’s low rep 
Day 4: Legs high rep
Day 5: Chest and tri’s high rep
Day 6: Back and bi’s low rep
Day 7: Chest and tri’s medium rep 
Day 8: Legs low rep
Day 9: Chest and tri’s low rep
Day 10: Back and bi’s high rep
Day 11: Chest and tri’s high rep
Day 12: Legs medium rep
Day 13: Chest and tri’s medium rep
Day 14: Back and bi’s medium rep
Day 15: Chest and tri’s low rep

And just repeat as the pattern dictates. If you wanted to bring up your back instead of your chest, then the rotation would be:
Back, Chest, Back, Legs, and repeat following the pattern of low, mid and high rep days. 

I don’t take many rest days. Either as I need them or as my schedule dictates. My work shift is 24 hours long, and sometimes we’re running constantly for the entire 24 hours and a workout just isn’t going to happen. 

I also rotate the order of my workout as necessary to bring up weak lifts. If there’s a lift I’m struggling with, whether it be weight or form, I’ll move that lift to the very beginning of my workout so I can concentrate on it when my energy, focus and stamina are at their highest level. Once I make some progress on that lift and get it where I want it to be, I move it to a later part of the workout and move the next lagging lift to the front of the line. This also helps keep things from getting stale and repetitive. 

It’s slightly more complicated than other routines, no doubt. But once you’ve done it for a few months you get used to it and can track it from memory. 

The key to the whole thing is to constantly be doing something slightly different than you did in your last workout. By changing the stimulus, you force the muscle to adapt, which will improve either strength or hypertrophy. There’s also the whole supercompensation phase to take into account, but that’s a different conversation all together. I don’t advocate that anyone do a bazillion reps, or that they do super high reps as the base of their entire training program. 

There’s also a certain amount of flexibility built into the routine I outlined. Let’s say today last workout was high rep day, and today is supposed to be mid rep day. But, you’re feeling REALLY strong, and that tight cardio bunny on the elliptical gave you a big smile when you walked into the gym. You can change it up and make today low rep day, and just do mid rep day next workout. Sometimes your feeling it, or not, and this allows you to adapt the routine as you need to, within reason. Just don’t go turning every day into low rep day, other wise you’re defeating the purpose.


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## Sully (Dec 9, 2017)

And just to be clear, I never said I was right, or that you were wrong. I simply said that I followed a DUP training split. And my philosophy isn’t mine per se. It’s one that has been advocated by scientists that are much smarter than I am, that’s why I follow it. 

As I said before, training based on muscle fiber type is questionable at best. I’m not smashing that it has no validity, just that even the scientists that are doing those studies still have a lot of questions about whether or not there is any benefit to training that way.


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## striffe (Dec 10, 2017)

I have swopped over to higher reps and I like it. I have noticed improvements in a few body parts. Most sets are 15+ reps. Sometimes I add in drop or rest paused sets as well.


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## Sully (Dec 10, 2017)

striffe said:


> I have swopped over to higher reps and I like it. I have noticed improvements in a few body parts. Most sets are 15+ reps. Sometimes I add in drop or rest paused sets as well.



Yeah, regardless of your rep scheme there’s still a lot of good scientific evidence for drop sets, rest pause sets, pyramid sets, etc. Anything that creates a new stimulus forces adaptation in the body and will result in gains.


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## psych (Dec 10, 2017)

LOL  this is just wave training like a Sheiko program or a conjugate system with chains and bands. Stop trying to make the wheel again the Russians already did it for us....


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## Sully (Dec 11, 2017)

psych said:


> LOL  this is just wave training like a Sheiko program or a conjugate system with chains and bands. Stop trying to make the wheel again the Russians already did it for us....



Is that aimed at me?


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## SURGE (Dec 11, 2017)

striffe said:


> I have swopped over to higher reps and I like it. I have noticed improvements in a few body parts. Most sets are 15+ reps. Sometimes I add in drop or rest paused sets as well.



I have done the same mainly due to some injuries. But I am always rotating into low rep work as well.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 11, 2017)

strife, I like that range as well. You can only train "any way" for so long and then you have to switch it up.

 I have fallen back to the higher reps to take a brake from sore joints many times.


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## psych (Dec 11, 2017)

Sully said:


> Is that aimed at me?



No :sniper:


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## Viking (Dec 12, 2017)

SURGE said:


> I have done the same mainly due to some injuries. But I am always rotating into low rep work as well.





Concreteguy said:


> strife, I like that range as well. You can only train "any way" for so long and then you have to switch it up.
> 
> I have fallen back to the higher reps to take a brake from sore joints many times.



I am the same and change things due to various reasons. When I am lower bodyfat I usually add in higher reps or supersets. Not stating that is the best way but just what I prefer to do. With supersets I still go heavy but I can crack up the intensity without going too heavy.


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## Martellrui (Dec 12, 2017)

For me all the Rep ranges have their place I like to cycle them in the same workout or weekly I like to change often the stymulus


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## Jim550 (Dec 15, 2017)

I have a seen some good results from reducing the sets and hitting the muscle twice a week, with one of the workouts in the week being lower reps and 2nd workout being higher reps


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## Sully (Dec 15, 2017)

psych said:


> LOL  this is just wave training like a Sheiko program or a conjugate system with chains and bands. Stop trying to make the wheel again the Russians already did it for us....



I’ve never heard of conjugate training. I’ll have to hit up Google and do some reading.


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## psych (Dec 15, 2017)

Sully said:


> I’ve never heard of conjugate training. I’ll have to hit up Google and do some reading.



WESTSIDE MOTHER FUCKER!!!!!:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:


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## rAJJIN (Dec 15, 2017)

I use to always think anything over 10 reps you are doing cardio.
Some muscles though I have found 'for me' respond better to lighter weight and just cramming all the blood in there you can. Biceps, calves, even traps Ill do 15-20 maybe even 25.


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## Concreteguy (Dec 15, 2017)

Raj, you want traps??? It gets no better.


[ame]https://youtu.be/v8_BgoVYHuM[/ame]


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## psych (Dec 15, 2017)

John Meadows!!! He trains with Dave Tate! Tate is a westside barbell guy fyi!
Still no idea what the fuckl dog crap training is


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## rAJJIN (Dec 16, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Raj, you want traps??? It gets no better.
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/v8_BgoVYHuM



Ive been in that Gym.
That is Powerhouse in Columbus Ohio rite down town.
an old bank. Met the owner when working there and he was a real cool guy. Wish I would have Seen the Mountain Dog JM!!


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## rAJJIN (Dec 16, 2017)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## odin (Dec 16, 2017)

Jim550 said:


> I have a seen some good results from reducing the sets and hitting the muscle twice a week, with one of the workouts in the week being lower reps and 2nd workout being higher reps



This is exactly what I have done. Higher frequency but lower volume per day. One day heavy using 6-12 and the other using 15-20 reps.


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## Victory (Dec 16, 2017)

At the moment 5-10 reps for me. It changes but never very high a part from calves and arms for me.


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