# Lantus/Keto Protocol



## Concreteguy

I lived this and did it. I speak from 100% experience doing it! I'm the guy that invented it. "The CG Extreme Body re-composition".

Start by following a strict "high protein (KETO) diet for 1 week. Four normal keto meals adding up to 200 grams protein and 4 Hydrolyzed whey protein shakes between the meals adding up to 200 grams protein. Balance the fats by how many more aditional calories you need to reach maintenance calories. 
Start the Lantus at 10iu and titrate up 5iu per day. Once you get to 25iu per day your body will start to look full and have veins. As you continue increasing your Lantus into the low forties your body will be extremely full in appearance and your weight loss "on the scale" is almost at a stop. 50iu not exceeding 65iu and you will start gaining "scale" weight AND at the same time your body is (STILL) losing fat on the KETO diet at an accelerated pace. There for losing fat and building muscle at the same exact time my friend. How can this happen without going hypo? In a state of ketosis your body will convert proteins to the carbs the Lantus needs. The Lantus is so stabile and the onset is so slow it gives your metabolism time to adjust to the needs. 
The kicker is because your on no ingested carbs your insulin sensitivity remains at an all time peek the entire duration you do this. Do I have to point out how reactive your cells will be in this condition relative to nutrient delivery? That's the reason only 60iu of Lantus will start a forest fire of growth.

Absolutely anyone that's floating at 10 to 15% BF can stand on stage clean, dry and jacked full in 4 to 6 weeks from entering this protocol. 

Things to monitor? 
-How fast you titrate up the Lantus
-The quality of you Zero carb hydrolyzed whey 
-There can be ZERO missed meals.
-Fluids must stay high
-Before training 20grams EAA's and 20grams Glutamine.(this will offset the added need for carbs)

I recommend doing: For Extreme Growth
-3iu GH 3 x's a day 
-Water based test 150mgs a day
-EQ 600mgs a week
-A-drol, 100 mgs a day
-Winny 50 mgs a day 

How dangerous is this? If you don't stick to the KETO diet and hit each and every meal and shake, this isn't for you. Extreme change demands extreme discipline. 

Now I know what you guys are going to do. Your reading this and just shaking your heads in dismay. lol You just don't have an open mind and can't except something you don't understand. That's fine with me. You can stand on the side of the road and watch the cars go by all day long. But then there are the guys that get behind the wheel and have a purpose. Those are the guys I'm targeting with this.

This is really and truly THE way to lose fat and grow significant muscle at the same exact time. PERIOD!


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## montego

Makes sense actually......

I've never used Lantus only faster acting insulin but, is it so slow that only a week in, you could start it? 

I dunno if in a week's time I would be keto adapted enough to be converting the amount of protein needed to support that dose


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## Concreteguy

Good question. After 1 full week of keto dieting, you then start with 10iu of Lantus. This will accelerate your body into a state of ketosis.


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## G160

Concreteguy said:


> I lived this and did it. I speak from 100% experience doing it! I'm the guy that invented it. "The CG Body Transformation".
> 
> Start by following a strict "high protein (KETO) diet for 1 week. Four normal keto meals adding up to 200 grams protein and 4 Hydrolyzed whey protein shakes between the meals adding up to 200 grams protein. Balance the fats by how many more aditional calories you need to reach maintenance calories.
> Start the Lantus at 10iu and titrate up 5iu per day. Once you get to 25iu per day your body will start to look full and have veins. As you continue increasing your Lantus into the low forties your body will be extremely full in appearance and your weight loss "on the scale" is almost at a stop. 50iu not exceeding 65iu and you will start gaining "scale" weight AND at the same time your body is (STILL) losing fat on the KETO diet at an accelerated pace. There for losing fat and building muscle at the same exact time my friend. How can this happen without going hypo? In a state of ketosis your body will convert proteins to the carbs the Lantus needs. The Lantus is so stabile and the onset is so slow it gives your metabolism time to adjust to the needs.
> The kicker is because your on no ingested carbs your insulin sensitivity remains at an all time peek the entire duration you do this. Do I have to point out how reactive your cells will be in this condition relative to nutrient delivery? That's the reason only 60iu of Lantus will start a forest fire of growth.
> 
> Absolutely anyone that's floating at 10 to 15% BF can stand on stage clean, dry and jacked full in 4 to 6 weeks from entering this protocol.
> 
> Things to monitor?
> -How fast you titrate up the Lantus
> -The quality of you Zero carb hydrolyzed whey
> -There can be ZERO missed meals.
> -Fluids must stay high
> -Before training 20grams EAA's and 20grams Glutamine.(this will offset the added need for carbs)
> 
> I recommend doing: For Extreme Growth
> -3iu GH 3 x's a day
> -Water based test 150mgs a day
> -EQ 600mgs a week
> -A-drol, 100 mgs a day
> -Winny 50 mgs a day
> 
> How dangerous is this? If you don't stick to the KETO diet and hit each and every meal and shake, this isn't for you. Extreme change demands extreme discipline.
> 
> Now I know what you guys are going to do. Your reading this and just shaking your heads in dismay. lol You just don't have an open mind and can't except something you don't understand. That's fine with me. You can stand on the side of the road and watch the cars go by all day long. But then there are the guys that get behind the wheel and have a purpose. Those are the guys I'm targeting with this.
> 
> This is really and truly THE way to lose fat and grow significant muscle at the same exact time. PERIOD!


Very informative thread..thanks for posting, im starting lantus/log protocol next month.

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk


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## Concreteguy

G160, Welcome to AnaSci friend! I'll look forward to following your Log.


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## ASHOP

Great read. That is an intense cycle but I could see easily how it could be so effective. A lot of my guys looking for size gains I put them on something very similar.


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## Akamai

Maybe B will come continue the convo over here?

Ak


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## Concreteguy

LOL, Akamai, I just told the guys a PM to bring it over here.


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## Concreteguy

Maybe I should film myself driving around town and talk about it? Then it would all be believable.lol


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## warlock

Concreteguy,

Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing.

Would 65iu of lantus per day be the most you would recommend for this purpose? Would you take it all at once in the AM or split between AM and PM?

How long would you follow this protocol?

And protein would be 400g per day between foods and shakes?


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## Concreteguy

It's a total of 400grams protein 200/200. 

For ((ME)) 65iu per day injected in the morning was the most my body could except while maintaining a state of ketosis. I'm sure you could go higher if there was the regular infusion of added EAA's and Glutamine hourly. I found this to be how to handle it when I was exploring the maxiu's I could do.
 This is a tricky thing. The real question here is how much protein can ones body convert to carbs to continue to offset the growing amounts of Lantus added. This number can vary from one individual to another. There is no "correct" answer to this.

 How do you reagnize the protein conversion isn't great enough? I consistantly got a queer ass feeling in my head. Nothing like a hypo symptom. It was a lack of consintration and a sense of urgence. Absolutly nothing I have ever felt before. When this happened I would have a whey shake with 20 grams EAA's and 20 grams Glutamine and after about twenty mintues I felt it pass.


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## Akamai

Concreteguy said:


> LOL, Akamai, I just told the guys a PM to bring it over here.



:headbang: you da man.

Ak


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## warlock

Concreteguy said:


> It's a total of 400grams protein 200/200.
> 
> For ((ME)) 65iu per day injected in the morning was the most my body could except while maintaining a state of ketosis. I'm sure you could go higher if there was the regular infusion of added EAA's and Glutamine hourly. I found this to be how to handle it when I was exploring the maxiu's I could do.
> This is a tricky thing. The real question here is how much protein can ones body convert to carbs to continue to offset the growing amounts of Lantus added. This number can vary from one individual to another. There is no "correct" answer to this.
> 
> How do you reagnize the protein conversion isn't great enough? I consistantly got a queer ass feeling in my head. Nothing like a hypo symptom. It was a lack of consintration and a sense of urgence. Absolutly nothing I have ever felt before. When this happened I would have a whey shake with 20 grams EAA's and 20 grams Glutamine and after about twenty mintues I felt it pass.




Solid info there!

Is there a specific brand of Zero carb hydrolyzed whey you like?


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## Gunsmith

Following this one


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## Concreteguy

warlock said:


> Solid info there!
> 
> Is there a specific brand of Zero carb hydrolyzed whey you like?



Everything I use is True Nutrition


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## Concreteguy

Gunsmith, it's good to see you here buddy!


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## Akamai

Gunsmith said:


> Following this one



Yes as CG said good to see ya here.

Ak


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## Concreteguy

The questions I ask myself:

-My body is converting proteins to carbs. But what is the quality of the carb? Is it a *perfect* super carb because my body made it? Or a poor one because it's the byproduct of what was protein?
-The Lantus is running proteins into my cells. Is a higher percent of protein piggy backing into the cells with this *self produced* carb? Does my body work better with a self produced carb?
When the scale weight stops dropping and I keep cleaning up, how is it possible to gain muascle at the same rate I'm losing fat? I would bet everything I have against that being possible. Yet, I'm living it.


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## Marvin Martian

Interesting as hell - I am following.


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## squatster

This is great seeing all you past membered posting here
Marvin Martian - gunsmith - warlock - good to see you guys here - we all would love to see you guys more often  -
Akamai - i didn't forget you man- you have a lot of posts behind you- still good to see


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## Marvin Martian

I am going to be around more. Great group and good info here.


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## Concreteguy

Marvin, the place is coming back to life in a good way. The staff is working to keep fresh content and interesting topics at hand. Were getting new members that are interacting in open forum every day. Not just bodies these new guys have been around the block and now the drill.


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## Marky boy

Interesting as usual. 

What about running:

Test p
Tren a
Mast p

Instead?


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## Jim550

Really interested in this, makes sense to me.  I think you have your first tester right here besides yourself of course.  CG, I sent you a PM.


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## Concreteguy

Mark, there's a specific reason for the gear I recommend. RamboStalone asked me this this morning. But for the record:any gear that works good ON YOU will be just fine with this protocal.

<<<1g test base a week, haha love the hardcore truth here!!! How you liking that say compared to running 1g or grams of cyp, prop, etc?
Rambo, I cut and will paste from the first page of my Log for you to read:

Why high estrogen??? 

Testosterone Suspension:
160mlg of testosterone suspension will create a great deal of estrogen since it originates as a non-esterfied AAS. Estrogen up-regulates the muscle cells glucose transporters called GLUT-4 and increases androgen receptor sensitivity. This also means that the administered testosterone is free or unbound from its inactivating protein SHBG. A great deal of the hormone entering the circulatory system is quickly bound, though not before a serious degree of anabolism should take place. But there is a portion left bound and in reserve.
(Insulin) inhibited SHBG should be freed up resulting in a synergistic anabolic response. By freeing the remaining testosterone from SHBG an increase in androgenic activity should take place. Since SHBG is also estrogen binding the protein excretion of estrogens should be dramatically accelerated. This results in rapid estrogen clearing and an increase in GH. Most of you guys now GH and insulin must both be present in the liver to produce IGF-1.

BTW: The gear and amounts I recommend is what I believe is necessary for extreme growth in this chemical environment. Feel free to add or subtract as you see fit. As far as the "water based"? I think it's a necessity for optimum results.>>>


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## Kindlife

This is a very interesting idea. I love using Lantus with GH. I'd love to hear more from anyone who tries this as I might give it a go in the future.


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## Marky boy

Kindlife said:


> This is a very interesting idea. I love using Lantus with GH. I'd love to hear more from anyone who tries this as I might give it a go in the future.



Can you expand on what you’ve done with lantus and GH before?


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## G160

Marky boy said:


> Can you expand on what you’ve done with lantus and GH before?


Lantus is activates igf1 large scale much better than other insulins. Its safer, users forget tho that its cumulative. Meaning it collects in the body during use. The first 5 days are more forgiving but after that plasma levels are more stable and bg has to be monitored, as far as fat storage goes its nothing frag 176-191 and t4 cant remove. It will be in your body steadily during frequent pulses of growth hormone large scale keeping you consitently anabolic. Feeding and consistent calories along long range (good quality) proteins for night time and youre good to go. You can also keep your dosages low and add aditional humalog/novolog pre workout and not exceed 30 days..on off months lr3 metformin maybe efficient fasting you should resentitise.

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk


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## Concreteguy

Guess what? Elvia just pmed me with info from 2011 about a guy on RX using lantus and Palombos keto diet to lose weight. He didn't talk about the muscle gains but he did land on 50iu for his number. The good news is I guess he also found out his body couldn't convert any more proteins to carbs than would be handled by Lantus at 50iu. Go figure............ so the 50iu is probably something you can all hang your hats on. 
 My moment of fame is over


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## G160

Concreteguy said:


> Guess what? Elvia just pmed me with info from 2011 about a guy on RX using lantus and Palombos keto diet to lose weight. He didn't talk about the muscle gains but he did land on 50iu for his number. The good news is I guess he also found out his body couldn't convert any more proteins to carbs than would be handled by Lantus at 50iu. Go figure............ so the 50iu is probably something you can all hang your hats on.
> My moment of fame is over


I could swear elvia spoke about humalog. Glad people are introducing lantus in the game.

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk


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## Concreteguy

G160 said:


> Lantus is activates igf1 large scale much better than other insulins. Its safer, users forget tho that its cumulative. Meaning it collects in the body during use. The first 5 days are more forgiving but after that plasma levels are more stable and bg has to be monitored, as far as fat storage goes its nothing frag 176-191 and t4 cant remove. It will be in your body steadily during frequent pulses of growth hormone large scale keeping you consitently anabolic. Feeding and consistent calories along long range (good quality) proteins for night time and youre good to go. You can also keep your dosages low and add aditional humalog/novolog pre workout and not exceed 30 days..on off months lr3 metformin maybe efficient fasting you should resentitise.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk



Great info brother!  Why T4 as opposed to T3?


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## G160

Read this along time ago and made sense, still rather get a full thyroid pannel done while on cycle see where everything is at. 

https://forums.steroid.com/igf-1-lr3-hgh-insulin-questions/528384-t4-t3-hgh.html

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk


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## b-boy

If I were to do this protocol and take in fats the main fat sources would be coconut oil and olive oil, and some grass fed butter here and there. I would want ketone production high as possible maybe even taking some exogenous ketones pre workout.


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## b-boy

I would also not attempt this until fully fat adapted, that way glycogen reserves are.  maintained because of efficient ketones usage by the muscle tissue and blood leucine levels are high.


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## ksm88

It’s always been drilled in my head that when your on a KETO diet you are supposed to keep your fats higher than proteins. This is not true if your taking Lantus? Is your liver taking a hit consuming all this protein?  How much fat are you eating daily? Where are you getting your days from? 

I personally love the ketosis diet and after reading this I really want to try this. When I throw my body in ketosis it takes me about 2 weeks to start feeling good again.  That’s probably when I would start the lantus just to be a little safer.


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## b-boy

ksm88 said:


> It’s always been drilled in my head that when your on a KETO diet you are supposed to keep your fats higher than proteins. This is not true if your taking Lantus? Is your liver taking a hit consuming all this protein?  How much fat are you eating daily? Where are you getting your days from?
> 
> I personally love the ketosis diet and after reading this I really want to try this. When I throw my body in ketosis it takes me about 2 weeks to start feeling good again.  That’s probably when I would start the lantus just to be a little safer.


 you DO NOT need to keep fats higher than protein. Keto is the absence of carbs and had nothing to do with fat intake. You can eat nothing but protein (PSMF diet) and reach ketosis


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## Concreteguy

b-boy said:


> you DO NOT need to keep fats higher than protein. Keto is the absence of carbs and had nothing to do with fat intake. You can eat nothing but protein (PSMF diet) and reach ketosis



COPIED FOR THE TRUTH! Brad I really appreciate you brig your ass in here.


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## squatster

b-boy said:


> you DO NOT need to keep fats higher than protein. Keto is the absence of carbs and had nothing to do with fat intake. You can eat nothing but protein (PSMF diet) and reach ketosis



Wow
What do you do for pooping


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## brucepancake

Concreteguy said:


> Good question. After 1 full week of keto dieting, you then start with 10iu of Lantus. This will accelerate your body into a state of ketosis.



But isnt it already in ketosis at that point? I have been reading your posts and love them. It makes me think about the science of this thing we do but I still cant wrap my mind around this. If you are already ketp how does slin take you beyond that?


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## Concreteguy

Bruce, for some it takes a little longer to get into true ketosis. The Lantus removes all doubt. That's all.

BTW: It's good to see you posting in the open forum bro!


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## b-boy

squatster said:


> Wow
> What do you do for pooping


 plenty of fibrous veggies, you have to eat veggies no matter what diet you run, vital for gut health


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## Elvia1023

G160 said:


> I could swear elvia spoke about humalog. Glad people are introducing lantus in the game.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk



Great thread... CG's threads always are. I pm'ed CG just because he asked in the open if anyone had ever seen anything about high dosed lantus and keto diets to pm him. Before I tried lantus for the first time a few months back I researched it fairly extensively so came across some stuff relating to the subject. What CG is doing is definitely new though but in the same area of what I had seen a guy post about. He used 50iu lantus on Palumbo's keto diet but solely for fat loss.

I have spoken about various forms of slin as I have experimented with them from time to time. Humalog the most as it's my fav in many ways. When I experimented with humalog I really wanted to understand it so would not eat and record times of hypo onset and play about with carbs, aminos and food timing etc just so I recognized all the signs and knew what to do and obviously what to not do!  

I actually have my own lantus experiment about to start but it's nothing groundbreaking like this. I will be high (nothing crazy) dosing it 2 days (legs and back) per week but consuming plenty of carbs. My approach has been done many times before but I figured 2 days was a nice number for me. I will be able to remain slin sensitive keeping it to 2 days per week and obviously using various aids (metformin, gda's, lr3, melanotan 2 etc) to help in that regard.

Good posts CG, G160 and BBoy


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## G160

I read about lantus and the only issue i see with the 2 days is lantus or toujeo (insulin glargine) require 5 days of consecutive use for dose stabilisation. Im guessing if you dose high it still might not be very active in a countinous way (24hr life)

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk


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## Jim550

For all the questions, doubts, and interests regarding this protocol of CG's you all will find out very soon.  I will be starting the CG Recomp with his guidance and coaching.  This will be logged on the board for everyone to follow.


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## G160

Concreteguy said:


> I lived this and did it. I speak from 100% experience doing it! I'm the guy that invented it. "The CG Extreme Body re-composition".
> 
> Start by following a strict "high protein (KETO) diet for 1 week. Four normal keto meals adding up to 200 grams protein and 4 Hydrolyzed whey protein shakes between the meals adding up to 200 grams protein. Balance the fats by how many more aditional calories you need to reach maintenance calories.
> Start the Lantus at 10iu and titrate up 5iu per day. Once you get to 25iu per day your body will start to look full and have veins. As you continue increasing your Lantus into the low forties your body will be extremely full in appearance and your weight loss "on the scale" is almost at a stop. 50iu not exceeding 65iu and you will start gaining "scale" weight AND at the same time your body is (STILL) losing fat on the KETO diet at an accelerated pace. There for losing fat and building muscle at the same exact time my friend. How can this happen without going hypo? In a state of ketosis your body will convert proteins to the carbs the Lantus needs. The Lantus is so stabile and the onset is so slow it gives your metabolism time to adjust to the needs.
> The kicker is because your on no ingested carbs your insulin sensitivity remains at an all time peek the entire duration you do this. Do I have to point out how reactive your cells will be in this condition relative to nutrient delivery? That's the reason only 60iu of Lantus will start a forest fire of growth.
> 
> Absolutely anyone that's floating at 10 to 15% BF can stand on stage clean, dry and jacked full in 4 to 6 weeks from entering this protocol.
> 
> Things to monitor?
> -How fast you titrate up the Lantus
> -The quality of you Zero carb hydrolyzed whey
> -There can be ZERO missed meals.
> -Fluids must stay high
> -Before training 20grams EAA's and 20grams Glutamine.(this will offset the added need for carbs)
> 
> I recommend doing: For Extreme Growth
> -3iu GH 3 x's a day
> -Water based test 150mgs a day
> -EQ 600mgs a week
> -A-drol, 100 mgs a day
> -Winny 50 mgs a day
> 
> How dangerous is this? If you don't stick to the KETO diet and hit each and every meal and shake, this isn't for you. Extreme change demands extreme discipline.
> 
> Now I know what you guys are going to do. Your reading this and just shaking your heads in dismay. lol You just don't have an open mind and can't except something you don't understand. That's fine with me. You can stand on the side of the road and watch the cars go by all day long. But then there are the guys that get behind the wheel and have a purpose. Those are the guys I'm targeting with this.
> 
> This is really and truly THE way to lose fat and grow significant muscle at the same exact time. PERIOD!


I cant stop but wonder why water based test? 

Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk


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## juggy38

I posted this over at pro muscle but this will work. We have been doing this over st the old datbtrue site years ago but a little different. This is what we would usually do. It worked best if you could train mid morning.

Meal1: carbs/protein
Workout
Post workout=2iu humulin R and 50g whey isolate 
Meal3: protein/fishoil/mct oil
M4: protein/fish oil/
M5: egg whites+25g whey iso+ 2iu humulin R
M6: 4oz meat/1 scoop casein/fishoil

Fibrous veggies scattered in there. We would eat just enough carbs to keep training intensity high, but didn’t want to eat enough to have much liver glycogen left over after a lift

Worked extremely well with ghrps/rhgh added


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## Concreteguy

Elvia, I hope you plan to log your Lantus experience here in this section. This section has turned out be the "Go Too" for Lantus on the entire internet.


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## Concreteguy

G160 said:


> I cant stop but wonder why water based test?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk



 Nothing I'm doing is random. 


Testosterone Suspension:
160mlg of testosterone suspension will create a great deal of estrogen since it originates as a non-esterfied AAS. Estrogen up-regulates the muscle cells glucose transporters called GLUT-4 and increases androgen receptor sensitivity. This also means that the administered testosterone is free or unbound from its inactivating protein SHBG. A great deal of the hormone entering the circulatory system is quickly bound, though not before a serious degree of anabolism should take place. But there is a portion left bound and in reserve.
(Insulin) inhibited SHBG should be freed up resulting in a synergistic anabolic response. By freeing the remaining testosterone from SHBG an increase in androgenic activity should take place. Since SHBG is also estrogen binding the protein excretion of estrogens should be dramatically accelerated. This results in rapid estrogen clearing and an increase in GH. Most of you guys now GH and insulin must both be present in the liver to produce IGF-1.

BTW: The gear and amounts I recommend is what I believe is necessary for extreme growth in this chemical environment. Feel free to add or subtract as you see fit. As far as the "water based"? I think it's a necessity for optimum results.>>> 


 "I see said the blind man"


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## G160

Concreteguy said:


> Nothing I'm doing is random.
> 
> 
> Testosterone Suspension:
> 160mlg of testosterone suspension will create a great deal of estrogen since it originates as a non-esterfied AAS. Estrogen up-regulates the muscle cells glucose transporters called GLUT-4 and increases androgen receptor sensitivity. This also means that the administered testosterone is free or unbound from its inactivating protein SHBG. A great deal of the hormone entering the circulatory system is quickly bound, though not before a serious degree of anabolism should take place. But there is a portion left bound and in reserve.
> (Insulin) inhibited SHBG should be freed up resulting in a synergistic anabolic response. By freeing the remaining testosterone from SHBG an increase in androgenic activity should take place. Since SHBG is also estrogen binding the protein excretion of estrogens should be dramatically accelerated. This results in rapid estrogen clearing and an increase in GH. Most of you guys now GH and insulin must both be present in the liver to produce IGF-1.
> 
> BTW: The gear and amounts I recommend is what I believe is necessary for extreme growth in this chemical environment. Feel free to add or subtract as you see fit. As far as the "water based"? I think it's a necessity for optimum results.>>>
> 
> 
> "I see said the blind man"


I guess it makes sense in theory, im just learning, so in this scenario youre not considering the use of anti estrogens during the cutting phase?

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## Concreteguy

^^^ Not as long as slin is in play.


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## Sully

Concreteguy said:


> Nothing I'm doing is random.
> 
> 
> Testosterone Suspension:
> 160mlg of testosterone suspension will create a great deal of estrogen since it originates as a non-esterfied AAS. Estrogen up-regulates the muscle cells glucose transporters called GLUT-4 and increases androgen receptor sensitivity. This also means that the administered testosterone is free or unbound from its inactivating protein SHBG. A great deal of the hormone entering the circulatory system is quickly bound, though not before a serious degree of anabolism should take place. But there is a portion left bound and in reserve.
> (Insulin) inhibited SHBG should be freed up resulting in a synergistic anabolic response. By freeing the remaining testosterone from SHBG an increase in androgenic activity should take place. Since SHBG is also estrogen binding the protein excretion of estrogens should be dramatically accelerated. This results in rapid estrogen clearing and an increase in GH. Most of you guys now GH and insulin must both be present in the liver to produce IGF-1.
> 
> BTW: The gear and amounts I recommend is what I believe is necessary for extreme growth in this chemical environment. Feel free to add or subtract as you see fit. As far as the "water based"? I think it's a necessity for optimum results.>>>
> 
> 
> "I see said the blind man"



I wonder if a low dose of something like Winstrol, which lowers SHBG, would also be beneficial at the same time.


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## G160

Sully said:


> I wonder if a low dose of something like Winstrol, which lowers SHBG, would also be beneficial at the same time.


Good Winstrol @ 25mg mast p 75mg proviron 50 ed  along with test suspension and tren has to be amazing.. im sure the reason hes not using these is to counter flatness tendency winny and tren have 

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## Jim550

Sully said:


> I wonder if a low dose of something like Winstrol, which lowers SHBG, would also be beneficial at the same time.





G160 said:


> Good Winstrol @ 25mg mast p 75mg proviron 50 ed  along with test suspension and tren has to be amazing.. im sure the reason hes not using these is to counter flatness tendency winny and tren have
> 
> Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk



He is recommending winny in the protocol at 50mg/day


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## G160

Jim550 said:


> He is recommending winny in the protocol at 50mg/day


I reread it i couldnt edit...

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## Sully

Jim550 said:


> He is recommending winny in the protocol at 50mg/day



Totally missed that part. Thanx for the heads up.


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## Sully

G160 said:


> Good Winstrol @ 25mg mast p 75mg proviron 50 ed  along with test suspension and tren has to be amazing.. im sure the reason hes not using these is to counter flatness tendency winny and tren have



Flatness from Tren? How is that even a thing? I’ve run more than my fair share of Tren over the years (not much Winstrol, though) and never once dealt with flatness, even in a severe caloric deficit.


----------



## G160

Sully said:


> Flatness from Tren? How is that even a thing? I’ve run more than my fair share of Tren over the years (not much Winstrol, though) and never once dealt with flatness, even in a severe caloric deficit.


I have had some flatness with tren along with my older friends, could be cause were old...i have had tendencies to get flat since i passed 20s.. its not like npp tren will get some people flat, i usually run it with other nandrolones cause of it and mind you tren is my favorite compound after masteron then its winny.

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----------



## Elvia1023

Concreteguy said:


> Elvia, I hope you plan to log your Lantus experience here in this section. This section has turned out be the "Go Too" for Lantus on the entire internet.



I will do. I will be restarting my syntherol log anyday so will probably just put everything in that. Had a slight issue so have delayed things. I had a big leg workout the other day. Long story short I finished with 2 crazy sets of leg extensions. Tom Platz style but even more mental and after the 2nd one I tried to stand up and my legs completely went and I come crashing down and hit my elbow on the floor. It's been really sore since so I can't train properly. A silly injury and it's a shame I never got that set on video 

Whilst I am here check this video out. It's got some useful tips for anyone following a keto diet.


The 5 Biggest Ketosis Mistakes - YouTube


----------



## striffe

You're all crazy  Lantus and keto sounds interesting. Looking forward to more logs on it.


----------



## Santilaps

I'm really looking forward to trying this protocol.  Does the whey have to be hydrolized? Or can I use someting like impact whey from myprotein.com ?

My fear is just getting hypo creep on me while I'm alseep.


----------



## b-boy

Elvia1023 said:


> I will do. I will be restarting my syntherol log anyday so will probably just put everything in that. Had a slight issue so have delayed things. I had a big leg workout the other day. Long story short I finished with 2 crazy sets of leg extensions. Tom Platz style but even more mental and after the 2nd one I tried to stand up and my legs completely went and I come crashing down and hit my elbow on the floor. It's been really sore since so I can't train properly. A silly injury and it's a shame I never got that set on video
> 
> Whilst I am here check this video out. It's got some useful tips for anyone following a keto diet.
> 
> The 5 Biggest Ketosis Mistakes - YouTube


Good LORD, please don't eat 80% fat diet! If you are weight training hard there is absolutely no need to go that hight of a ratio of fat in your diet.


----------



## Hiasdamoon

While I am nowhere near ready for Lantus, just curious what is the scientific name for Lantus?  Just curious as I don't see Lantus anywhere.  Glargine?

Just trying to read more on the subject, while I am sitting at work LOL.


----------



## Concreteguy

Santilaps said:


> I'm really looking forward to trying this protocol.  Does the whey have to be hydrolized? Or can I use someting like impact whey from myprotein.com ?
> 
> My fear is just getting hypo creep on me while I'm alseep.



Hydro gets into your system faster. That's why I use it.


----------



## Santilaps

Concreteguy said:


> Hydro gets into your system faster. That's why I use it.



I get that but getting 200g protein in shakes daily is a hell of a lot of protein powder and it adds up quickly. 

Could isolate work? I'm trying to get the best bang for my buck here, or maybe you have a suggestion for a good cost benefit powder? 

Before you jump on my neck over this I just want to let you know I don't bodybuild professionally but I really like experimenting and your protocol really caught my eye, and I want to try this approach for a recomp.


----------



## Jim550

Santilaps said:


> I get that but getting 200g protein in shakes daily is a hell of a lot of protein powder and it adds up quickly.
> 
> Could isolate work? I'm trying to get the best bang for my buck here, or maybe you have a suggestion for a good cost benefit powder?
> 
> Before you jump on my neck over this I just want to let you know I don't bodybuild professionally but I really like experimenting and your protocol really caught my eye, and I want to try this approach for a recomp.



hydro whey at Truenutrition.com is like $12 per pound bro, it doesn't get too much cheaper than that.  It also is going to have a higher absorption rate than regular whey and gets absorbed faster like CG said.  You can even use my discount code and save an extra 5% it should cover your shipping, it's JAD223


----------



## Elvia1023

b-boy said:


> Good LORD, please don't eat 80% fat diet! If you are weight training hard there is absolutely no need to go that hight of a ratio of fat in your diet.



Definitely. I posted that video as it contains some good info but would definitely not follow everything he stated. I personally wouldn't run keto anyway. Well if I did it would be much higher protein. I feel any bodybuilder or typical poster on the forums should have relatively high protein in their diets regardless of what type of diet that is. If doing low carbs I would personally have at least 40% protein in there.


----------



## Concreteguy

Santilaps said:


> I get that but getting 200g protein in shakes daily is a hell of a lot of protein powder and it adds up quickly.
> 
> Could isolate work? I'm trying to get the best bang for my buck here, or maybe you have a suggestion for a good cost benefit powder?
> 
> Before you jump on my neck over this I just want to let you know I don't bodybuild professionally but I really like experimenting and your protocol really caught my eye, and I want to try this approach for a recomp.



Santilaps, we don't jump on necks here at AnaSci bro. This is a calm forum that treats others as we want to be treated. That's shit isn't going to ever happen here. Promise. 
 Saving $$$ and going with that whey is just fine. I like hydrolyzed because of the speed it enters your system at. The absorption rate.
 You don't have to be an aspiring Pro to want to sock on some muscle quickly.

BTW: Welcome to AnaSci and please keep up the posting bro.


----------



## bill2

Hey CG I was digging authors l rea book building the perfect beast the other day .. I found a protocol he was using for a bodybuilder using lantus and a diet with very high protein ( 600 grams ) low fat ( 50 grams ) and veggie only carbs( no more than 50 grams carbs) 
His protein was half whey isolate and half food .. Also was using his 4 week on 4 week off protocol of AUthor of gear ( test -deca and t Bol ) 
He refers that he gained about 15 pounds of muscle while stoping a serious amount of fat ...


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----------



## warlock

Concreteguy said:


> Santilaps, we don't jump on necks here at AnaSci bro. This is a calm forum that treats others as we want to be treated. That's shit isn't going to ever happen here. Promise.
> Saving $$$ and going with that whey is just fine. I like hydrolyzed because of the speed it enters your system at. The absorption rate.
> You don't have to be an aspiring Pro to want to sock on some muscle quickly.
> 
> BTW: Welcome to AnaSci and please keep up the posting bro.



Concreteguy,

Do you also feel hydro gives less bloating and digests much faster than whey isolate, which in turn would allow you to get down the 4 solid foods and 4 shakes much more easily?


----------



## warlock

*fats*

Concreteguy,

How many grams of fats do you eat while on this diet for your size? Do you distribute the fat intake evenly between the 4 solid meals? The shake meals do not contain any fat?


----------



## rmtt

warlock said:


> Concreteguy,
> 
> Do you also feel hydro gives less bloating and digests much faster than whey isolate, which in turn would allow you to get down the 4 solid foods and 4 shakes much more easily?


Not CG.....but as I've gotten older I've found that a lot of the purest whey isolate brands will cause me bloat to some degree.

However with Hydrolyzed whey or Casein....I can drink that and actually be able and ready to eat a meal within 45 minutes or so. I do that now....Hydrolyzed shake postworkout....followed with a whole food meal within an hour or so....and no digestion problems whatsoever!

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----------



## Concreteguy

warlock said:


> Concreteguy,
> 
> How many grams of fats do you eat while on this diet for your size? Do you distribute the fat intake evenly between the 4 solid meals? The shake meals do not contain any fat?



I take in a modest amount of fats between all meals. The TN shakes I drink have 1 gram of fat per scoop and I always have two scoops per shake. Most of my fats are coming from cashews, walnuts and peanut butter.


----------



## JWBH

CG, I know this is regarding lantus, but it's out of my price range to use it.  Would I be able to make some adjustments and use hum r, or would I just mess up the entire plan by switching to hum r?  if you think I could use hum r, any idea how I could set that up?

thanks man.


----------



## G160

JWBH said:


> CG, I know this is regarding lantus, but it's out of my price range to use it.  Would I be able to make some adjustments and use hum r, or would I just mess up the entire plan by switching to hum r?  if you think I could use hum r, any idea how I could set that up?
> 
> thanks man.


Out of your price range???? Pm me bro

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----------



## Santilaps

Concreteguy said:


> Santilaps, we don't jump on necks here at AnaSci bro. This is a calm forum that treats others as we want to be treated. That's shit isn't going to ever happen here. Promise.
> Saving $$$ and going with that whey is just fine. I like hydrolyzed because of the speed it enters your system at. The absorption rate.
> You don't have to be an aspiring Pro to want to sock on some muscle quickly.
> 
> BTW: Welcome to AnaSci and please keep up the posting bro.



That is great to hear! How do you time your meals? Do you think doing a martial art like BJJ is fine during this protocol?


----------



## Concreteguy

4 solid meals and 4 shakes between them. You can do anything bro. I would prime myself with a shit ton of protein before doing something that aerobic.


----------



## montego

I would actually give this a try but, I can't do keto anymore.

After I developed colitis a few years back, if I eliminate carbs I have diarrhea anywhere from 8-12 times a day.

Even supplementing with physsilium husk and other fiber supplements as well as pro and pre biotics, lots of fermented foods, can't shake it.


----------



## Santilaps

Do you think basaglar is as good as Lantus for this?


----------



## Concreteguy

monetgo said:


> I would actually give this a try but, I can't do keto anymore.
> 
> After I developed colitis a few years back, if I eliminate carbs I have diarrhea anywhere from 8-12 times a day.
> 
> Even supplementing with physsilium husk and other fiber supplements as well as pro and pre biotics, lots of fermented foods, can't shake it.



Dude, that sucks! God bless ya man.


----------



## Concreteguy

Santilaps said:


> Do you think basaglar is as good as Lantus for this?



I have read many, many times that Lantus unlike other basil insulins makes your body generate IGF-1  <-------That's a huge reason to take a pass on other basil insulins.

Maybe G160 would like to comment on this? Through PMing I have found out he is well informed about all insulins. Much more than me. MUCH!


----------



## G160

Concreteguy said:


> I have read many, many times that Lantus unlike other basil insulins makes your body generate IGF-1  <-------That's a huge reason to take a pass on other basil insulins.
> 
> Maybe G160 would like to comment on this? Through PMing I have found out he is well informed about all insulins. Much more than me. MUCH!


Insulin glargine (Lantus,Toujeo as more current) has the highest affinity for the IGF1R receptor more so than any other insulin analog ever studied almost equal or more potent than human insulin

http://m.erc.endocrinology-journals.org/content/19/5/F63.full


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----------



## G160

The end of this article talks about cell proliferation and affinity of different analogs. 

http://m.erc.endocrinology-journals.org/content/19/5/F63.full 
Interesting read 

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----------



## Concreteguy

G160, in your honest opinion could you share with us your idea of the optimum insulin for body building and why? Or possibly what you think is the optimum protocol? Your not going to be hammered to the cross on this. You just seam to be very well informed.

 Thanks, CG


----------



## G160

Concreteguy said:


> G160, in your honest opinion could you share with us your idea of the optimum insulin for body building and why? Or possibly what you think is the optimum protocol? Your not going to be hammered to the cross on this. You just seam to be very well informed.
> 
> Thanks, CG


Lol i dont know shit man, if you ask me about pharms maybe, i was planning on learning from you

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## G160

From what i read around and people told me i guess a stack between fast acting and slow acting...as far as bulking goes but dieting keto etc man way out of my league

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----------



## Santilaps

The basaglar is supposed to be exactly like Lantus, so I'm gonna try that one when I start the protocol! Have you ever gone hypo from this protocol CG? I work with aviation so I might have to delay a meal, can I substitute with a low carb protein matrix? (slow absorption), since sometimes I won't have access to solid food.

Thanks!


----------



## squatster

Santilaps said:


> The basaglar is supposed to be exactly like Lantus, so I'm gonna try that one when I start the protocol! Have you ever gone hypo from this protocol CG? I work with aviation so I might have to delay a meal, can I substitute with a low carb protein matrix? (slow absorption), since sometimes I won't have access to solid food.
> 
> Thanks!



You can still go hypo if your skipping meals. 
Have some thing with you all the time. 
Don't gery me wrong - every single person or situation is different - just be safe and bring stuff - the drink would do great. 
I am sure CG or some one more experenced will chime in


----------



## squatster

If I wasn't so fat I would start right now


----------



## warlock

squatster said:


> If I wasn't so fat I would start right now



The idea behind this protocol is you will lean out while possibly growing too.


----------



## Concreteguy

Not possibly. If you do this to the letter your going to grow muscle as you lose fat.
It just doesn't happen as fast as slin and carbs will do it. If you stead fast on the slin and carbs you can do it with the use of ECA, T3, BroncAid tabs, Caffeine tabs and clen. You must constantly shuffle these around so your body keeps responding to them


----------



## G160

Santilaps said:


> The basaglar is supposed to be exactly like Lantus, so I'm gonna try that one when I start the protocol! Have you ever gone hypo from this protocol CG? I work with aviation so I might have to delay a meal, can I substitute with a low carb protein matrix? (slow absorption), since sometimes I won't have access to solid food.
> 
> Thanks!


Tho its harder to go hypo on lantus from what i hear, id find a way to keep consistency on feeding before starting insulin, concrete guy has a protocol that involves serious discipline and calculation.  You could use it on bulking as a start but even then feeding consistency is important but easier for us who work and consume energy and cant always eat or cook a days worth of calculated macros.

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## JITB

CG- even more ground breaking than your chicken in a blender post!

(J/K of course)

If I'm being honest with myself, I just can't do keto for days on end.  But I did a variation of the Anabolic Diet for over 2 years straight. My variation was simply 6 days keto, 1 day carb-up. 

Would doing that with Lantus muck up the recipe? 

Thanks


----------



## Concreteguy

JITB, you remember drinking the chicken brother? Good job. So much has just run through the cracks. Good to see someone holds onto this stuff.

 If your truly a 100% keto diet 6 on 1 off, (yes) it will work. Dan Duchain and many others claim you can carb over load for a day and not come out of ketosis. You need to make God damned sure your in a state of ketosis so your body will perform glucogenusous on the proteins your eating. That's the process of converting proteins to carbohydrates.

Hey, one more thing. Why don't you post more brother? Where really building up a great group of guys here that know their shit. Aint nobody ever going to start shit either.


----------



## warlock

Concreteguy said:


> JITB, you remember drinking the chicken brother? Good job. So much has just run through the cracks. Good to see someone holds onto this stuff.
> 
> If your truly a 100% keto diet 6 on 1 off, (yes) it will work. Dan Duchain and many others claim you can carb over load for a day and not come out of ketosis. You need to make God damned sure your in a state of ketosis so your body will perform glucogenusous on the proteins your eating. That's the process of converting proteins to carbohydrates.
> 
> Hey, one more thing. Why don't you post more brother? Where really building up a great group of guys here that know their shit. Aint nobody ever going to start shit either.



Concreteguy,

If you follow the diet you specified to the tee, how long will it take to get into ketosis?

Would you still run the 50-65 units of lantus on that one carb-up day too?


----------



## Concreteguy

You will be in ketosis in between two and three weeks. Yes I would run the Lantus in the amounts I suggested if you carb up 1 day a week.


----------



## Santilaps

Thoughts on running mk677 as a substitute for HGH?


----------



## G160

Santilaps said:


> Thoughts on running mk677 as a substitute for HGH?


Dont know much sarms but without gh i get lower blood glucose readings and i have to dose lower on insulin (humalog pwo) gh 12-15 iu, no gh i almost went hypo on 10iu...i dont know why this happends to me 

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----------



## rmtt

G160 said:


> Dont know much sarms but without gh i get lower blood glucose readings and i have to dose lower on insulin (humalog pwo) gh 12-15 iu, no gh i almost went hypo on 10iu...i dont know why this happends to me
> 
> Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk


Because GH raises blood glucose levels. On lower amounts (3-4iu) of GH.....your body can compensate for this with its natural production of insulin.

With high amounts of GH....your body can't compensate and usually insulin resistance occurs unless you are using exogenous insulin.

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----------



## G-FLUX

Just wanted to thank you CG for posting all of this information as insulin is so misunderstood..especially in regards to dietary fat


----------



## Gorilla2020

CG..a few questions on this protocol:
1. Can one use pasteurized eggwhites instead of the hydro whey? I have stomach issues and any kind of whey gets me sick

2. Do u do any cardio ?

3. Do u use and Clen, eca ?

4. How long is the slin used for ..4-6 weeks and come off for 4 weeks and then repeat ?

4. When u do come off the slin for those few weeks what type of diet are u following ..still keto ?

5. Are u using metaformin at all ?

Thanks


----------



## Concreteguy

gorilla2020 said:


> cg..a few questions on this protocol:
> 
> 
> 1. Can one use pasteurized eggwhites instead of the hydro whey? I have stomach issues and any kind of whey gets me sick
> yes, but i think it's a compromise that's distant to whey using it for this propose.
> 
> 2. Do u do any cardio ?
> Yes i do 20 to 30 minutes on a stepper four to five times a week.
> 
> 3. Do u use and clen, eca ?
> No. If your diet is on point( high proteins) (low healthy fats) the last thing you will be concerned with is burning off extra fat with stims. You literally wont believe the speed you clean up at.
> 
> 4. How long is the slin used for ..4-6 weeks and come off for 4 weeks and then repeat ? Because your in a state of complete ketosis your bodies insulin sensitivity will be as high as if you were doing no insulin at all. Imo, you could run at 50iu a day for months with no harmful sides.
> 
> 4. When u do come off the slin for those few weeks what type of diet are u following ..still keto ? I wouldn't do any two things at once. Come off the slin and then titrate carbs back into your diet if that's what you want to do. When you see whats happening to your body you may not want to get off a good horse.
> 
> 5. Are u using metaformin at all ? Metformin when used with insulin is normally to keep insulin sensitivity as high as possible. Because your consuming next to no carbs you should leave the met on the shelf for when you need it.
> 
> Thanks



:d


----------



## G-FLUX

So much information in this thread CG! Awesome! 

How are all the joints holding up on this approach?


----------



## Concreteguy

I feel as good as any 57 year old Fortitude training lol


----------



## pucetr

Some great info here have always been searching for info on this topic.


----------



## SURGE

Great thread. Been taking notes.


----------



## Concreteguy

pucetr said:


> Some great info here have always been searching for info on this topic.



A member since 2014 and this is your first post? I'm flattered. Hope to hear more from you and thanks for posting!


----------



## G160

Concreteguy said:


> A member since 2014 and this is your first post? I'm flattered. Hope to hear more from you and thanks for posting!


Hes a "low layer" lol

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----------



## pucetr

Concreteguy said:


> A member since 2014 and this is your first post? I'm flattered. Hope to hear more from you and thanks for posting!



Lol yah I mainly just read but now i have more time to spend replying
and being more involved.

Cheers


----------



## odin

pucetr said:


> Lol yah I mainly just read but now i have more time to spend replying
> and being more involved.
> 
> Cheers



Thank you for finally posting so I could see your avatar 

Great thread CG. I always like seeing someone go for it with a well set out plan of action. Too many these days just create a drug cycle with no real effort into the diet to support it.


----------



## lilgumby

Been doing some reading on lantus this protocol looks interesting and ill prob give it a shot.  Ive ran other insulin protcols but added to much bodyfat . 

Thanks for sharing the info i have a few questions 
Do you run a base test like test e for trt ? I assume you split doses for the test suspension ?

also if im following you on the diet  . My maintenance is 2800 (Im small lol) if i consume 400 grams of protien thats 1600 calories so i would  need about 130 grams of fats to make up the difference roughly correct ? would that be to much fat ?

thanks for any insight 




Concreteguy said:


> I lived this and did it. I speak from 100% experience doing it! I'm the guy that invented it. "The CG Extreme Body re-composition".
> 
> Start by following a strict "high protein (KETO) diet for 1 week. Four normal keto meals adding up to 200 grams protein and 4 Hydrolyzed whey protein shakes between the meals adding up to 200 grams protein. Balance the fats by how many more aditional calories you need to reach maintenance calories.
> Start the Lantus at 10iu and titrate up 5iu per day. Once you get to 25iu per day your body will start to look full and have veins. As you continue increasing your Lantus into the low forties your body will be extremely full in appearance and your weight loss "on the scale" is almost at a stop. 50iu not exceeding 65iu and you will start gaining "scale" weight AND at the same time your body is (STILL) losing fat on the KETO diet at an accelerated pace. There for losing fat and building muscle at the same exact time my friend. How can this happen without going hypo? In a state of ketosis your body will convert proteins to the carbs the Lantus needs. The Lantus is so stabile and the onset is so slow it gives your metabolism time to adjust to the needs.
> The kicker is because your on no ingested carbs your insulin sensitivity remains at an all time peek the entire duration you do this. Do I have to point out how reactive your cells will be in this condition relative to nutrient delivery? That's the reason only 60iu of Lantus will start a forest fire of growth.
> 
> Absolutely anyone that's floating at 10 to 15% BF can stand on stage clean, dry and jacked full in 4 to 6 weeks from entering this protocol.
> 
> Things to monitor?
> -How fast you titrate up the Lantus
> -The quality of you Zero carb hydrolyzed whey
> -There can be ZERO missed meals.
> -Fluids must stay high
> -Before training 20grams EAA's and 20grams Glutamine.(this will offset the added need for carbs)
> 
> I recommend doing: For Extreme Growth
> -3iu GH 3 x's a day
> -Water based test 150mgs a day
> -EQ 600mgs a week
> -A-drol, 100 mgs a day
> -Winny 50 mgs a day
> 
> How dangerous is this? If you don't stick to the KETO diet and hit each and every meal and shake, this isn't for you. Extreme change demands extreme discipline.
> 
> Now I know what you guys are going to do. Your reading this and just shaking your heads in dismay. lol You just don't have an open mind and can't except something you don't understand. That's fine with me. You can stand on the side of the road and watch the cars go by all day long. But then there are the guys that get behind the wheel and have a purpose. Those are the guys I'm targeting with this.
> 
> This is really and truly THE way to lose fat and grow significant muscle at the same exact time. PERIOD!


----------



## Tallandsmal

One thing I don't get is how you can grow with so few calories in you. From what I understand you eat high protein ( let's say 400 grams ), no carbs and low fat. When on a normal diet I need around 4 k kcal to grow. No way in hell I'm gonna make that on Keto with low fat.. How does this work or am I just stupid?


----------



## Concreteguy

lilgumby said:


> Been doing some reading on lantus this protocol looks interesting and ill prob give it a shot.  Ive ran other insulin protcols but added to much bodyfat .
> 
> Thanks for sharing the info i have a few questions
> Do you run a base test like test e for trt ? I assume you split doses for the test suspension ?
> 
> also if im following you on the diet  . My maintenance is 2800 (Im small lol) if i consume 400 grams of protien thats 1600 calories so i would  need about 130 grams of fats to make up the difference roughly correct ? would that be to much fat ?
> 
> thanks for any insight



Yes, yes and no.


----------



## Concreteguy

Tallandsmal said:


> One thing I don't get is how you can grow with so few calories in you. From what I understand you eat high protein ( let's say 400 grams ), no carbs and low fat. When on a normal diet I need around 4 k kcal to grow. No way in hell I'm gonna make that on Keto with low fat.. How does this work or am I just stupid?



It's my opinion that you can grow when your ingesting 10% more than your maintenance calories. I would use that as a target with this protocol.


----------



## Tallandsmal

Concreteguy said:


> It's my opinion that you can grow when your ingesting 10% more than your maintenance calories. I would use that as a target with this protocol.



I agree with you on that. My problem is I won't get to those numbers with low fat and no carbs haha.


----------



## Concreteguy

Increase your healthy fats if your approaching 400 grams of protein. If you in true keto your fats will just move through you. Don't worry one bit about it.


----------



## lilgumby

Concreteguy said:


> Yes, yes and no.



Man of many words lol. Thanks


----------



## bill2

Tallandsmal said:


> One thing I don't get is how you can grow with so few calories in you. From what I understand you eat high protein ( let's say 400 grams ), no carbs and low fat. When on a normal diet I need around 4 k kcal to grow. No way in hell I'm gonna make that on Keto with low fat.. How does this work or am I just stupid?



When in keto you will have an unlimited amount of energy ( stored fat) to burn your body to build muscle ..also you have lantus driving amino acids and glucose ( from glucogenogemesis from excess protein ) all day and night long ! So you r anabolic 24/24! 
Also lantus raises igf-1 by itself another factor to keep in mind ! 
The AAS you r on 
also further contributes to anabolism ! 
All in all you will create an inviroment for unlimited growth! 
And for one more time congrats to CG the mastermind behind this protocol ! 



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----------



## Concreteguy

Bill, you have a complete understanding of this. 

"Grasshopper, you can walk across the rice paper without leaving a mark. It is time for you to leave". lol


----------



## Santilaps

Can I use Bcaa instead of eaa?


----------



## pucetr

The question I have is they say 30g carb or less for Keto but with this protocol
could you get away with like 50-60g carbs due to using Lantus


----------



## Gorilla2020

CG..could one use novolin n instead of Lantus as it is a slow acting insulin but not the same as lantus ? I was thinking of taking novolin n every 12 hours to stimulate same effect as lantus...what do u think?


----------



## bill2

IMO lantus should be better cause of the igf-1 raising effect ( more than other insulins ) 


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## bill2

CG are you consuming  any veggies ? 
If so how much? 
Do you count them as carbs? 


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## pharmahgh

Concreteguy said:


> I lived this and did it. I speak from 100% experience doing it! I'm the guy that invented it. "The CG Extreme Body re-composition".
> 
> Start by following a strict "high protein (KETO) diet for 1 week. Four normal keto meals adding up to 200 grams protein and 4 Hydrolyzed whey protein shakes between the meals adding up to 200 grams protein. Balance the fats by how many more aditional calories you need to reach maintenance calories.
> Start the Lantus at 10iu and titrate up 5iu per day. Once you get to 25iu per day your body will start to look full and have veins. As you continue increasing your Lantus into the low forties your body will be extremely full in appearance and your weight loss "on the scale" is almost at a stop. 50iu not exceeding 65iu and you will start gaining "scale" weight AND at the same time your body is (STILL) losing fat on the KETO diet at an accelerated pace. There for losing fat and building muscle at the same exact time my friend. How can this happen without going hypo? In a state of ketosis your body will convert proteins to the carbs the Lantus needs. The Lantus is so stabile and the onset is so slow it gives your metabolism time to adjust to the needs.
> The kicker is because your on no ingested carbs your insulin sensitivity remains at an all time peek the entire duration you do this. Do I have to point out how reactive your cells will be in this condition relative to nutrient delivery? That's the reason only 60iu of Lantus will start a forest fire of growth.
> 
> Absolutely anyone that's floating at 10 to 15% BF can stand on stage clean, dry and jacked full in 4 to 6 weeks from entering this protocol.
> 
> Things to monitor?
> -How fast you titrate up the Lantus
> -The quality of you Zero carb hydrolyzed whey
> -There can be ZERO missed meals.
> -Fluids must stay high
> -Before training 20grams EAA's and 20grams Glutamine.(this will offset the added need for carbs)
> 
> I recommend doing: For Extreme Growth
> -3iu GH 3 x's a day
> -Water based test 150mgs a day
> -EQ 600mgs a week
> -A-drol, 100 mgs a day
> -Winny 50 mgs a day
> 
> How dangerous is this? If you don't stick to the KETO diet and hit each and every meal and shake, this isn't for you. Extreme change demands extreme discipline.
> 
> Now I know what you guys are going to do. Your reading this and just shaking your heads in dismay. lol You just don't have an open mind and can't except something you don't understand. That's fine with me. You can stand on the side of the road and watch the cars go by all day long. But then there are the guys that get behind the wheel and have a purpose. Those are the guys I'm targeting with this.
> 
> This is really and truly THE way to lose fat and grow significant muscle at the same exact time. PERIOD!



Thanks for the read. completely makes sense. Ive never been a fan of keto diets for myself.Just for the simple reason I was afraid it would leave me flat. All of us want to stay full during prep keeping water and sodium high. I would like to give this a trial run see how I do with it. How does it compare to a traditional prep as far as fat loss rate, Fullness and energy?


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## Concreteguy

All kidding aside. It's better across the board. You lose zero muscle and stay full and vascular, even making muscle. The only thing that concerns me is the timing coming off to carbs load and blow up. Going from practically no carbs to (loading) carbs is going to slam the system. I suspect as the sugar comes on you would have to carefully introduce water to the point of almost spilling. Can you imagine? lol


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## lilgumby

Concreteguy said:


> All kidding aside. It's better across the board. You lose zero muscle and stay full and vascular, even making muscle. The only thing that concerns me is the timing coming off to carbs load and blow up. Going from practically no carbs to (loading) carbs is going to slam the system. I suspect as the sugar comes on you would have to carefully introduce water to the point of almost spilling. Can you imagine? lol



So potentially timed right  you could look like the day after the show after eating a huge cheat meal on stage. Usually that's when I look best . I  talked to one of my past coaches about this and looking better the day after show. His comment was I didn't time things correctly. I think he forgot he was my damn coach lol


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## odin

lilgumby said:


> So potentially timed right  you could look like the day after the show after eating a huge cheat meal on stage. Usually that's when I look best . I  talked to one of my past coaches about this and looking better the day after show. His comment was I didn't time things correctly. I think he forgot he was my damn coach lol



Very often guys try to mimic that for show day. So they do what they did for the last show but 1 day behind. It usually doesn't have the same effect and I would guess stress is the main reason. Most people know having a junk meal with sugar when lean usually has you looking great. But when you do it with the stress from the comp the next day it often doesn't have the equal effect. That feeling you have after your show when you can relax and eat what you want has a big effect and it's not just the food ate post contest that does it. I notice even when eating clean if I start getting really stressed my physique suffers and changes over a few days. I start to hold more water and don't seem to process foods as fast.


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## G160

odin said:


> Very often guys try to mimic that for show day. So they do what they did for the last show but 1 day behind. It usually doesn't have the same effect and I would guess stress is the main reason. Most people know having a junk meal with sugar when lean usually has you looking great. But when you do it with the stress from the comp the next day it often doesn't have the equal effect. That feeling you have after your show when you can relax and eat what you want has a big effect and it's not just the food ate post contest that does it. I notice even when eating clean if I start getting really stressed my physique suffers and changes over a few days. I start to hold more water and don't seem to process foods as fast.


Im a big beleiver that mental Stress will do things to your physique . 

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## Concreteguy

G160 said:


> Im a big beleiver that mental Stress will do things to your physique .
> 
> Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk



SHIT YA!!!!!! Cortisol is the killer of giants. Show me a drug that stops cortisol release and I'll show you a newer BIGGER generation of BBer's.

I know of a few but the down sides to them out weigh the up sides..........


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## G160

I was reading somewhere that some cortisol is needed, even for proper sexual function. But if i had to choose between cortisol killers or myostatin id choose myostatin blockers if they existed.

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## lilgumby

the best way to control cortisol would be to live in a hotel away from my wife the last two months of prep lmao . i dont know whos crankier me or her


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## pharmahgh

lilgumby said:


> So potentially timed right  you could look like the day after the show after eating a huge cheat meal on stage. Usually that's when I look best . I  talked to one of my past coaches about this and looking better the day after show. His comment was I didn't time things correctly. I think he forgot he was my damn coach lol



 I could never do this. I have huge digestion problems so my last week is very very bland, no spices only salt and all I can really eat is egg whites and cream of rice to carb up on. I could use white rice as well but cream of rice is already kind of broken down. I even thought about baby food or puree my food lol. I may look a little fuller the next day but I look 9 months pregnant and cant be any where in public. Major gas lol


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## Concreteguy

Mix jelly with the cream of rice to give it real ass bro. Rice cakes and jelly. How about PopTarts? If you have problems with loading maybe you should try "shit loading"? It all starts the night before the show. Not a lot of time for your stomach to fuck with ya.


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## Norditropin

Why wait to start the Lantus? Can't you use it day 1 and get into keto faster as.long as you're careful?


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## G160

Norditropin said:


> Why wait to start the Lantus? Can't you use it day 1 and get into keto faster as.long as you're careful?


Youre going to take insulin with no carbs before youre in keto?

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## Norditropin

G160 said:


> Youre going to take insulin with no carbs before youre in keto?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G550T1 using Tapatalk



I started with 10iu and been using hydrowhey when getting low and protein/broccoli for meals without issue. Curious if it's getting me to keto quicker or not. Obviously not blasting dose yet.


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## Norditropin

I'll just assume I'm in ketosis since I'm still here then lol


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## ketsugo

I’m not buyin , maybe some can do but I’m so against low carb . I’m one for macro variations and periodization diets . Where low carb 1-2 days then rotate . I’m all about long term . Yet to see anyone with long term success. Though I could be missing out ?


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## lilgumby

ketsugo said:


> I’m not buyin , maybe some can do but I’m so against low carb . I’m one for macro variations and periodization diets . Where low carb 1-2 days then rotate . I’m all about long term . Yet to see anyone with long term success. Though I could be missing out ?





On week on CGs protocol with no carbs. I'm up about 10lbs, waist looks tighter in the mirror and definitely look fuller. I did have a refeed meal over the weekend with carbs. This morning I used 35 IU of Lantus new hypo feeling today whatsoever. I'm a little tired but I didn't sleep too well last night. I'll keep ramping it up five IU a day until I hit 50. Long term results? Time will tell lol

My last insulin run I tried I was eating lots of carbs and started to more fat then I was comfortable with. So far this for me is working really really good


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## Norditropin

Gumby what are your macros at? And Cal's for the day? I'm at 44iu/d currently but not super full, feeling flat af. Also what's your weight? Thanks bud.


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## lilgumby

Norditropin said:


> Gumby what are your macros at? And Cal's for the day? I'm at 44iu/d currently but not super full, feeling flat af. Also what's your weight? Thanks bud.



Was up to 208lbs but then I started dropping weight as my insulin got higher. Not sure if that's why or what but my calories have maintained the same  throughout this whole cycle so far. Right now I'm 203 lbs at 5 foot 6. Some days I feel Fuller than others and sometimes my veins will be blown out at other times they aren't. 

Here's a link to my log at has my diet in it I think it's about halfway or 3/4 way down to page where I tweaked it 

http://www.anasci.org/vB/members-logs/42724-doing-cg-lantus-keto-protocol.html


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## speeder

lilgumby said:


> On week on CGs protocol with no carbs. I'm up about 10lbs, waist looks tighter in the mirror and definitely look fuller. I did have a refeed meal over the weekend with carbs. This morning I used 35 IU of Lantus new hypo feeling today whatsoever. I'm a little tired but I didn't sleep too well last night. I'll keep ramping it up five IU a day until I hit 50. Long term results? Time will tell lol
> 
> My last insulin run I tried I was eating lots of carbs and started to more fat then I was comfortable with. So far this for me is working really really good



awesome gumby, loving this log... will continue to follow..


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## Norditropin

lilgumby said:


> Was up to 208lbs but then I started dropping weight as my insulin got higher. Not sure if that's why or what but my calories have maintained the same  throughout this whole cycle so far. Right now I'm 203 lbs at 5 foot 6. Some days I feel Fuller than others and sometimes my veins will be blown out at other times they aren't.
> 
> Here's a link to my log at has my diet in it I think it's about halfway or 3/4 way down to page where I tweaked it
> 
> http://www.anasci.org/vB/members-logs/42724-doing-cg-lantus-keto-protocol.html



Nice man. I upped to 50iu today and am feeling much fuller with increased intake as well. Cool stuff!


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## speeder

Norditropin said:


> Nice man. I upped to 50iu today and am feeling much fuller with increased intake as well. Cool stuff!



have you maintained the same leanness?


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## Norditropin

speeder said:


> have you maintained the same leanness?



Up to 65iu/d and getting leaner yeah. Unless I pound the fats too high then I get fuller not leaner. But enjoying this protocol for sure.


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## lilgumby

Norditropin said:


> Up to 65iu/d and getting leaner yeah. Unless I pound the fats too high then I get fuller not leaner. But enjoying this protocol for sure.



Same  with me. I'm shocked at how lean I'm getting an actually gaining weight on the scales. Definitely my favorite cycle and Insulin protocol so far. I thought about nothing Lantus to 65 IU but at 50 it will run me a few extra days for what I have


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## speeder

Norditropin said:


> Up to 65iu/d and getting leaner yeah. Unless I pound the fats too high then I get fuller not leaner. But enjoying this protocol for sure.



nordi, i know this is gumby's thread, so i don't want to hijack, but just curious, what are your macros looking like?  

am enjoying following your guys' run with the lantus..


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## Norditropin

I was hitting a little over 400g/protein, <60g carbs (broccoli and trace carbs), and around 80-110g fats est, round 2800-3200cals/d. Days would vary depending on training, hunger, BG levels, etc.


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## lilgumby

Norditropin said:


> I was hitting a little over 400g/protein, <60g carbs (broccoli and trace carbs), and around 80-110g fats est, round 2800-3200cals/d. Days would vary depending on training, hunger, BG levels, etc.



That's pretty close to what mine is.


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## lilgumby

speeder said:


> nordi, i know this is gumby's thread, so i don't want to hijack, but just curious, what are your macros looking like?
> 
> am enjoying following your guys' run with the lantus..



Acually it's CGs thread. It's been a huge help with my cycle along with asking CG some questions 


This is by far the best cycle I've ran! Getting bigger and leaner at the same time.


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## speeder

Norditropin said:


> I was hitting a little over 400g/protein, <60g carbs (broccoli and trace carbs), and around 80-110g fats est, round 2800-3200cals/d. Days would vary depending on training, hunger, BG levels, etc.





lilgumby said:


> That's pretty close to what mine is.



thanks for the info, nordi and gumby!  you guys and CG are pioneers!

I'm pleased to see you guys enjoying your results, as I normally eat almost exactly as Nordi posted year round (and actually grow from it), but have never used insulin before, so will be very excited to start the lantus late summer.

Thanks so much for staying on top of the log


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## SURGE

lilgumby said:


> Acually it's CGs thread. It's been a huge help with my cycle along with asking CG some questions
> 
> 
> This is by far the best cycle I've ran! Getting bigger and leaner at the same time.



How are you getting on now?


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## ldbruffey

Lantus and keto works great so does using apidra or humalog around training to get carbs in as it will shuttle the nutrients and allow you to maintain ketosis


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## Norditropin

ldbruffey said:


> Lantus and keto works great so does using apidra or humalog around training to get carbs in as it will shuttle the nutrients and allow you to maintain ketosis
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



How do you like utilizing carbs vs EAA/Hydrowhey intra when using this protocol


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## ldbruffey

Two totally different things I use all together. Eaas to maximize protein synthesis and intra carbs to prevent breakdown and shuttle more nutrients to grow


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## speeder

ldbruffey said:


> Lantus and keto works great so does using apidra or humalog around training to get carbs in as it will shuttle the nutrients and allow you to maintain ketosis
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



nice.  what is your full lantus/keto protocol?  

thanks bro


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## ldbruffey

speeder said:


> nice.  what is your full lantus/keto protocol?
> 
> 
> 
> thanks bro





This defintley isn’t a black and white answer, I do this specifically with clients. Wouldn’t feel comfortable putting direct info out there


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## Jaxino

Do you think it's possible to reset Insulin resistance while doing this diet?

I was thinking to use 2iu Saizen 10-50iu Lantus 750 TestE 400 MasteronE 350 W.





Concreteguy said:


> I lived this and did it. I speak from 100% experience doing it! I'm the guy that invented it. "The CG Extreme Body re-composition".
> 
> Start by following a strict "high protein (KETO) diet for 1 week. Four normal keto meals adding up to 200 grams protein and 4 Hydrolyzed whey protein shakes between the meals adding up to 200 grams protein. Balance the fats by how many more aditional calories you need to reach maintenance calories.
> Start the Lantus at 10iu and titrate up 5iu per day. Once you get to 25iu per day your body will start to look full and have veins. As you continue increasing your Lantus into the low forties your body will be extremely full in appearance and your weight loss "on the scale" is almost at a stop. 50iu not exceeding 65iu and you will start gaining "scale" weight AND at the same time your body is (STILL) losing fat on the KETO diet at an accelerated pace. There for losing fat and building muscle at the same exact time my friend. How can this happen without going hypo? In a state of ketosis your body will convert proteins to the carbs the Lantus needs. The Lantus is so stabile and the onset is so slow it gives your metabolism time to adjust to the needs.
> The kicker is because your on no ingested carbs your insulin sensitivity remains at an all time peek the entire duration you do this. Do I have to point out how reactive your cells will be in this condition relative to nutrient delivery? That's the reason only 60iu of Lantus will start a forest fire of growth.
> 
> Absolutely anyone that's floating at 10 to 15% BF can stand on stage clean, dry and jacked full in 4 to 6 weeks from entering this protocol.
> 
> Things to monitor?
> -How fast you titrate up the Lantus
> -The quality of you Zero carb hydrolyzed whey
> -There can be ZERO missed meals.
> -Fluids must stay high
> -Before training 20grams EAA's and 20grams Glutamine.(this will offset the added need for carbs)
> 
> I recommend doing: For Extreme Growth
> -3iu GH 3 x's a day
> -Water based test 150mgs a day
> -EQ 600mgs a week
> -A-drol, 100 mgs a day
> -Winny 50 mgs a day
> 
> How dangerous is this? If you don't stick to the KETO diet and hit each and every meal and shake, this isn't for you. Extreme change demands extreme discipline.
> 
> Now I know what you guys are going to do. Your reading this and just shaking your heads in dismay. lol You just don't have an open mind and can't except something you don't understand. That's fine with me. You can stand on the side of the road and watch the cars go by all day long. But then there are the guys that get behind the wheel and have a purpose. Those are the guys I'm targeting with this.
> 
> This is really and truly THE way to lose fat and grow significant muscle at the same exact time. PERIOD!


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## Concreteguy

This diet will absolutely increase your insulin sensitivity. Most keto diets will as well.


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## bill2

Concreteguy said:


> This diet will absolutely increase your insulin sensitivity. Most keto diets will as well.





Are u still on this protocol bro ? 

And what results have you accomplished.??


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## danieltx

I can attest to the effectiveness of non-traditional insulin use.

I dieted down using a ketogenic diet and had a Dexa scan on May 17. I was 201lbs. at 7% body fat.

I immediately drastically increased calories / carbs and added Humulin R. By drastically I mean they were increased by over 1,000 calories per day within a week.

I made a point to always use more insulin than needed to cover my carbs. I worked up to using insulin at every meal and intraworkout, anywhere from 40 - 60 IU per day.

On July 9 I had another Dexa scan. I was 242lbs. at 7.8% body fat. Might not be a true 7.8%, but I have veins in my pecs, lats, lower abs, etc., so it's certainly single digits. Last night at the gym I was up to 246.5lbs, still holding great conditioning.

Quit thinking the established ways of doing things are the only ways. Experimentation - accompanied by research and proper monitoring of biofeedback - is key to pushing yourself to new levels.


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## bill2

danieltx said:


> I can attest to the effectiveness of non-traditional insulin use.
> 
> I dieted down using a ketogenic diet and had a Dexa scan on May 17. I was 201lbs. at 7% body fat.
> 
> I immediately drastically increased calories / carbs and added Humulin R. By drastically I mean they were increased by over 1,000 calories per day within a week.
> 
> I made a point to always use more insulin than needed to cover my carbs. I worked up to using insulin at every meal and intraworkout, anywhere from 40 - 60 IU per day.
> 
> On July 9 I had another Dexa scan. I was 242lbs. at 7.8% body fat. Might not be a true 7.8%, but I have veins in my pecs, lats, lower abs, etc., so it's certainly single digits. Last night at the gym I was up to 246.5lbs, still holding great conditioning.
> 
> Quit thinking the established ways of doing things are the only ways. Experimentation - accompanied by research and proper monitoring of biofeedback - is key to pushing yourself to new levels.





Good ! What aas were u on ? 


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## Concreteguy

No Bill. I'm currently eating six oz of ground beef and 2 cups cooked of elbow pasta per meal. I'm at the beginning of a complete recomp from a surgery gone wrong. Losing weight is the least of my concerns at the moment.


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## bill2

Concreteguy said:


> No Bill. I'm currently eating six oz of ground beef and 2 cups cooked of elbow pasta per meal. I'm at the beginning of a complete recomp from a surgery gone wrong. Losing weight is the least of my concerns at the moment.





Oh hope to be back to your previous self soon brother! 
Can you give me a brief review overall of the Keto-lantus protocol ? 
How it treat it u? 
How long you did it? 
What you accomplished? 
What would you correct if you would liked to do again? 

Any info you could add would be much appreciated !!


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## bill2

danieltx said:


> I can attest to the effectiveness of non-traditional insulin use.
> 
> I dieted down using a ketogenic diet and had a Dexa scan on May 17. I was 201lbs. at 7% body fat.
> 
> I immediately drastically increased calories / carbs and added Humulin R. By drastically I mean they were increased by over 1,000 calories per day within a week.
> 
> I made a point to always use more insulin than needed to cover my carbs. I worked up to using insulin at every meal and intraworkout, anywhere from 40 - 60 IU per day.
> 
> On July 9 I had another Dexa scan. I was 242lbs. at 7.8% body fat. Might not be a true 7.8%, but I have veins in my pecs, lats, lower abs, etc., so it's certainly single digits. Last night at the gym I was up to 246.5lbs, still holding great conditioning.
> 
> Quit thinking the established ways of doing things are the only ways. Experimentation - accompanied by research and proper monitoring of biofeedback - is key to pushing yourself to new levels.





Hey bro can you elaborate a bit about your rebound? Aas used -cals-macros -etc ? 
I would love to have simiral results myself ! 


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## Victory

danieltx said:


> I can attest to the effectiveness of non-traditional insulin use.
> 
> I dieted down using a ketogenic diet and had a Dexa scan on May 17. I was 201lbs. at 7% body fat.
> 
> I immediately drastically increased calories / carbs and added Humulin R. By drastically I mean they were increased by over 1,000 calories per day within a week.
> 
> I made a point to always use more insulin than needed to cover my carbs. I worked up to using insulin at every meal and intraworkout, anywhere from 40 - 60 IU per day.
> 
> On July 9 I had another Dexa scan. I was 242lbs. at 7.8% body fat. Might not be a true 7.8%, but I have veins in my pecs, lats, lower abs, etc., so it's certainly single digits. Last night at the gym I was up to 246.5lbs, still holding great conditioning.
> 
> Quit thinking the established ways of doing things are the only ways. Experimentation - accompanied by research and proper monitoring of biofeedback - is key to pushing yourself to new levels.



I am curious about this as well. You wrote non-traditonal insulin use but you didn't use it on keto? So you added carbs when using insulin? How many meals did you use it with each day? Did you use it everyday or have breaks? Did you use hgh? Sorry for all the questions I just want to understand the exact protocol you used.


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## Jaxino

I am using Lantus to recomp but I am on a Medium carb medium prots medium fat diet.

Unfortunately by eating 400g carbs and 3iu Saizen with 50iu Lantus I can't stay near 80 on fasted glucose....

Maybe I will give a try to that keto diet. I don't like that much prots+fats but let's see how this will threat me.


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## odin

Jaxino said:


> I am using Lantus to recomp but I am on a Medium carb medium prots medium fat diet.
> 
> Unfortunately by eating 400g carbs and 3iu Saizen with 50iu Lantus I can't stay near 80 on fasted glucose....
> 
> Maybe I will give a try to that keto diet. I don't like that much prots+fats but let's see how this will threat me.



If you do I would start at 20iu and see how you are and up to 30iu and so on. I am tempted to try lantus again.


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## Btails

Interested in this but have a few questions.

I've played with insulin a fair bit in the past, more than I'd like to admit.. Didn't really understand it as much as I'd like though as it was always just part of a coaches "plan"

Kind of doing some research on this, caught my eye but have a few questions:

-why are we doing 200g's of protein from shakes? Is it because it's easier/quicker to break down and for the lantus to convert to carbs?

-Do you track your morning fasted BG on this? Do you try to keep it around 70? Under 70= back off the dosage, over 70= up the dosage (not more than 5iu's though at a time). Is that how you're adjusting the dosage?

-or are you adjusting by ketones in urine? Asking because CG on the first page mentioned 65iu was all he could manage while staying in ketosis (assuming he measured somehow then).

-anyone run this with MK677 as opposed to hgh?

-How are you still insulin sensitive when done this protocol? I would think even with no carbs you're going to be well, fucked when done this protocol? no? (not a callout by anymeans - trying to learn)

If anyone has further reading I can study I'd be more than interested


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## Btails

For anyone else reading:

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/ultimate-no-fat-gain-insulin-program/

Article was written in 1999?

Also says it makes you insulin resistant?


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## odin

Btails said:


> For anyone else reading:
> 
> https://thinksteroids.com/articles/ultimate-no-fat-gain-insulin-program/
> 
> Article was written in 1999?
> 
> Also says it makes you insulin resistant?



I would just keep it simple and add in just enough carbs for you not to go hypo. Add high protein to that and keep good fats low but in your plan. Carbs won't make you fat as long as you don't go overboard with them. Did you not like your past insulin cycles? Have you used lantus before?


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## Gunsmith

Wanted to kick this back up to the front to see if anyone else has given it a run??

Im also wonder if novolin-R could be used and just dosed ever 4hr-5hr to maintain a steady insulin level as opposed to using lantus if that can’t be had regularly.


----------

