# Say no to Deca & say hi to NPP!



## alpha6164

I see this so much on different boards that i just want to make a very blanket statement regarding these two compounds.  I will be very honest. IMHO There is absolutely no reason why anyone should choose Deca over NPP minus if you are just afraid of injections. None, zero zip.  

Obviously they are both nandrolone compounds, however, Deca has some major issues that NPP does not have. Many studies have shown that nandrolone over all when used for long periods is not so great health wise.  Nandrolone is very anabolic and for whatever reason has a very well known affect of causing cardiomegally. This is something you dont want and it is pretty much irreversible.  When the heart muscle grows way too much one may think that is great and makes it a strong pumping machine but it is actually the opposite.  The cardiac muscle is not skeletal muscle and is a different type of muscle tissue. And when they grow with anabolics they dont develop properly and will cause a heart that actually doesnt pump well at all and is in a sense out of sync.  The longer the body is exposed to nandrolone the greater chance of cardiomegally. 

The problem is that Deca is so damn long acting that it needs to be taken for at least 12-15 weeks to make it worth while.  The problem is that if you are on a 12 week cycle even the first 4-6 weeks you dont even see much because it is still stabilizing. Then you have really good levels from weeks 6-12 and then you stop.  Well that nandrolone is still floating around and the cardiac muscle responds a lot quicker to anabolics that skeletal muscle. So even though you only really have had a net effect of 6 weeks of having high enough blood levels to reach skeletal muscle effectiveness your heart has been exposed to nandrolone since day 1.  Then it will take another 6-8 weeks for it to leave the body in a good amount.  Traces of deca are still found in your serum even sometimes up to a 8months to a year after coming off a high dose.  That is just way too much nandrolone.

The beauty of NPP is that it is much much faster acting.  It should be taken three times weekly and hits you very quick.  This way you can run a 6-8 week cycle and when you are done it is out of your system in 2 weeks vs months.  So overall your net skeletal muscle exposure to high levels have been the same as deca and even longer but you are reducing the possibility of cardiomegally. 

The other aspect is that NPP and this is because of the ester itself and has nothing to do with nandrolone has much much less water bloat than Deca does.  So that is another major reason to choose NPP over Deca.  I hope what i have said makes sense medically and physiologically. Feel free to ask questions.


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## AnaSCI

Interesting.


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## Lex

On my first run 5 weeks in its incredible. I love it.


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## Flex2019

I've never tried NPP but I use Deca quite a bit.  There is a ton of talk about it lately and most people seem to love it.  I think I'm going to give it a run later in the year.


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## Johnny Ringo

Like all gear affects people differently. For me NPP is a better fit.


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## Thunder46

Just finished a run with npp its my new favorite next to tren


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## Thor

*Yes*

like Flex Ive used Deca in the past and really liked it, but never again after all ive read, may have to try the NPP
 Thanks for the info Alpha. :headbang:


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## Elvia1023

I have heard all this about deca in the past but for me deca is my fav compound. I recently used npp and it was great but nowhere near as good as a nice long cycle of deca imo. I will use both in the future but really looking forward to my next blast of 300mg test and 1.2g deca. But sure due to the negative things I have read about deca I will not run it as much as I want to.


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## turbobusa

Alpha . Ah man been waiting for an npp tech info post. I like hearing guys feedback on compounds but yep sometimes I like to know why something works differently than another ester of same thing(nandrolone). 
Used durabolin a little back in the 80's and couldn't really tell what it was doing due to many compounds being run at same time .Common young guys mistake
Durabolin(npp) was known for being  better for strength and a bit less sloshy than deca even 30 yrs ago. .I'm planning a run with the Npp later this spring. 
What is  your take on var with Npp? Thanks , T


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## Johnny Ringo

Plan on running low dose Tren 100mgs with my HRT 200 MSG of Test 

What would be better combo for lean muscle gains ? NPP or Masteron?


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## Gj

Going to give npp a try next bulk.


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## turbobusa

I'm sure someone else would know for sure . I would think npp but lets 
lets have someone chime in that knows for sure.. T


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## Ironbuilt

Both deca and npp made me feel the same at 300mg wk for my joints. 
Question is the cardiomegally caused from a certain dose amount per week and from longer duration than say 12 weeks?


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## Magnus82

Johnny Ringo said:


> Plan on running low dose Tren 100mgs with my HRT 200 MSG of Test
> 
> What would be better combo for lean muscle gains ? NPP or Masteron?



I would run npp. I wouldn't run mast unless you were under 10%bf and contest prepping.


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## MR. BMJ

NPP has been a favorite (next to tren and test) of MANY of my friends the past 10 years as far as injects go. I agree with alpha, it gives all the benefits of decanoate, but if sides occur, you can eliminate them quicker on NPP....though, they'll also arise quicker from the beginning so you have to be ready for them.

NPP has put more mass on me than any other inject. I know most already know this, but quality is also of concern. I've seen some pretty crap-fed NPP's out there, compared to others. 

For me, I can't take nandrolones any lonmger because they mess with my nips too much


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## FordFan

I've ran npp once. Wasn't too thrilled, but I think it might have been bunk. Planning to start a prop/npp/drol cycle in march. Looking fwd to this.


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## dudcki27

Last time I did NPP was at 100mgs a day for 10 weeks....not to shabby. :action-smiley-033:


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## Johnny Ringo

Anyone experiances w low dosage 100-200mgs week appreciated. Again plans to add this low dose to 200mgs Test and 100mgs Tren. 

Get my Sexy Beach Body going! :headbang:


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## alpha6164

Here is the issue everyone should consider.  With NPP you have to use 10-20% more on a weekly basis to give same effect.  And here is why. Most drugs are eliminated in the body in the following routes:

1) liver 
2) kidney
3) break down or conversion to other compounds.  

There are some other minor pathways but is beyond the scope of this discussion.  In drugs that have an extremely half short life the compound breaks down way before the hepatic and renal system have a chance to kick in.  With drugs with extremely long half lives if the dosage is high enough the hepatic and renal system get maxed out and only so much can clear and the serum levels start to stack up.  We see this with tren enanthate and Deca.  

The reason some that have tried both and "feel" Deca worked better is because once you go over 400-500 of Deca there is a major stacking effect and after 6-8 weeks serum levels are way higher than same compound that doesn't clear.  

Obviously nandrolone is nandrolone.  Physiologically it is impossible for one to work better than the other since your body does not use the ester.  It is just how their profile changes in vivo.  

But once again to compare apples to apples there is absolutely no reason to choose Deca over NPP.  If you are using 500mg of Deca you should use 650mg of NPP to make it equivalent.


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## Aquascutum828

Wow!
This was really new to me!
I will definitely choose NPP next cycle..
Is this things you find out through your work or have you read it in some meds article or something?


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## alpha6164

Aquascutum828 said:


> Wow!
> This was really new to me!
> I will definitely choose NPP next cycle..
> Is this things you find out through your work or have you read it in some meds article or something?



I am a board certified physician and involved heavily on hormone replacement therapy and have done quite a bit of research with some top pharma companies in Europe in the field of anabolics.


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## Aquascutum828

alpha6164 said:


> I am a board certified physician and involved heavily on hormone replacement therapy and have done quite a bit of research with some top pharma companies in Europe in the field of anabolics.



Okey. 
 I appreciate all the works you do here and looking forward to learn more from you!


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## Thunder46

alpha6164 said:


> Here is the issue everyone should consider.  With NPP you have to use 10-20% more on a weekly basis to give same effect.  And here is why. Most drugs are eliminated in the body in the following routes:
> 
> 1) liver
> 2) kidney
> 3) break down or conversion to other compounds.
> 
> There are some other minor pathways but is beyond the scope of this discussion.  In drugs that have an extremely half short life the compound breaks down way before the hepatic and renal system have a chance to kick in.  With drugs with extremely long half lives if the dosage is high enough the hepatic and renal system get maxed out and only so much can clear and the serum levels start to stack up.  We see this with tren enanthate and Deca.
> 
> The reason some that have tried both and "feel" Deca worked better is because once you go over 400-500 of Deca there is a major stacking effect and after 6-8 weeks serum levels are way higher than same compound that doesn't clear.
> 
> Obviously nandrolone is nandrolone.  Physiologically it is impossible for one to work better than the other since your body does not use the ester.  It is just how their profile changes in vivo.
> 
> But once again to compare apples to apples there is absolutely no reason to choose Deca over NPP.  If you are using 500mg of Deca you should use 650mg of NPP to make it equivalent.



Its a plus for this board to have such a knowledgable person from your field, thanks for the information and I will never use deca over npp


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## Gj

This info is great.


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## striffe

Alpha, Thank you for your contributions.


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## Jhezel

Johnny Ringo said:


> Plan on running low dose Tren 100mgs with my HRT 200 MSG of Test
> 
> What would be better combo for lean muscle gains ? NPP or Masteron?



Run Masteron, you will be very happy with results.


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## Jhezel

Great info, but I like long ester deca. The enlargement of the heart is very scary though when taken deca at high dosages for long period of time.


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## Elvia1023

Johnny Ringo said:


> Plan on running low dose Tren 100mgs with my HRT 200 MSG of Test
> 
> What would be better combo for lean muscle gains ? NPP or Masteron?



Both would be great. Masteron shows it's results most when your bf is low but some people confuse that thinking it is solely a cosmetic drug. Fact is it is great for lean muscle gains due to it's androgenic activity. It's a great compliment to most aas (especially test) and over time can lead to quality gains due to increased strength and overall aggression in the gym. Moreover your already lean so it just add to your hardness and overall density.

NPP I have only taken once and was very surprised by it. I need to use it more to gain a better understanding. Although nandrolone in general can be greatly misunderstood imo. Loads think it just blows them up full of water in the wrong places but that is usually only the case when test is present. Everyone is different and sure it can have that effect but usually when high levels of estrogen are present. In regards of solely physical effect I would liken npp to a weak tren in a way. I felt tight/hard on it but with more fullness than tren. I never got the joint benefits I do when on deca... certain things may have contributed to that though. 

I would recommend npp for the best lean muscle gains. I know you keep your diet fairly strict and your on tren too so you should love the combo. Got to add I think masteron is amazing with nandrolone. So the combo of both would be great. You just have to be careful as your on low test and you don't want to drive your estrogen too low so doses are key. I like to add mast later on during a long nandrolone cycle but either way is great.

Is your plan to add on the npp or mast to your trt regime? Not sure of your doses you want but I can see something like this being great...

Test... 40mg per day
Tren... 15mg per day
Mast... 30mg per day
NPP... 60mg per day

That would give 280mg test, 105mg tren, 210mg mast and 420mg npp so a total of 1.015g so call it 1g. If 1g is too much take away alittle or if too little add on


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## Elvia1023

Just adding I am having a few weeks break from my log (various reasons) but when I get back to it I will be on 1.2g deca and 300mg test so feel free to check it out  I wanted adrol but sold out so got some dbol on the way


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## Ironbuilt

Question Alpha.. whats your advice on TPP alone? Over an ethenate or cyp? Thanks cause its a fav of mine in over 45 yr old league.


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## turbobusa

Phenyl prop? Hey Iron.. T


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## alpha6164

Ironbuilt said:


> Question Alpha.. whats your advice on TPP alone? Over an ethenate or cyp? Thanks cause its a fav of mine in over 45 yr old league.



There is nothing wrong with test phenylprop. It is a test with half life about 3-4 days. It basically falls between prop and cyp. There is nothing about it that makes it better of worse than cyp or prop.   Testosterone enanthate doesn't have the stacking syndrome as Deca because test converts to many compounds including estrogen, DHT etc besides its renal and hepatic clearance.   Besides more frequent injections you really don't get any more benefit than cyp.  When using cyp at more than 200mg a week I always recommend doing more frequent injections anyways.  

My recommendation is always to choose a test ester based on the fastest acting ester you have in your cycle. So if you are using tren ace and plan to pin daily, you might as well use testosterone prop or even better acetate. If you are using NPP where you are injecting three times a week you can use cyp and just divide weekly dosage by three.  Hope that makes sense.


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## Ironbuilt

Yeah perfect sense alpha..thanks . 

Yeah t ..phen prop.... I'm a shorter ester prefered person.


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## jm425

Great post doc.  I do like both but do bloat less on npp.


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## IsoVet

alpha6164 said:


> There is nothing wrong with test phenylprop. It is a test with half life about 3-4 days. It basically falls between prop and cyp. There is nothing about it that makes it better of worse than cyp or prop.   Testosterone enanthate doesn't have the stacking syndrome as Deca because test converts to many compounds including estrogen, DHT etc besides its renal and hepatic clearance.   Besides more frequent injections you really don't get any more benefit than cyp.  When using cyp at more than 200mg a week I always recommend doing more frequent injections anyways.
> 
> My recommendation is always to choose a test ester based on the fastest acting ester you have in your cycle. So if you are using tren ace and plan to pin daily, you might as well use testosterone prop or even better acetate. If you are using NPP where you are injecting three times a week you can use cyp and just divide weekly dosage by three.  Hope that makes sense.



This is excellent beginner advice for those that want to learn stacking. I will make one small comment on your NPP vs deca statement. There are only two things that would make somebody choose deca over NPP.

1) frequent injections. 
2) frequent deca users that simply are stuck in their ays and refuse to change.

other than that I agree that its more beneficial to use NPP over deca anyday. great post.


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## IsoVet

alpha6164 said:


> There is nothing wrong with test phenylprop. It is a test with half life about 3-4 days. It basically falls between prop and cyp. There is nothing about it that makes it better of worse than cyp or prop.   Testosterone enanthate doesn't have the stacking syndrome as Deca because test converts to many compounds including estrogen, DHT etc besides its renal and hepatic clearance.   Besides more frequent injections you really don't get any more benefit than cyp.  When using cyp at more than 200mg a week I always recommend doing more frequent injections anyways.
> 
> My recommendation is always to choose a test ester based on the fastest acting ester you have in your cycle. So if you are using tren ace and plan to pin daily, you might as well use testosterone prop or even better acetate. If you are using NPP where you are injecting three times a week you can use cyp and just divide weekly dosage by three.  Hope that makes sense.



Your forgetting that the propionate ester is not a very soluable fatty acid and  because of that their is PIP involved with it. While your idea to use a fast acting ester concurrently is sound and in reality good practice, the fact is some just cant tolerate the amount of soreness you get from prop even if its diluted and cut with tren or whatever other fast acting compound placed inside the same syringe. Other than that your idea is sound.


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## IsoVet

Might I add that the acetate ester is by far the greatest test ester available. While more frequent injections are necessary with acetate since it isn't as long acting as enanthate, cyp or decanoate, fact is its easier to time serum levels in your blood and it doesn't have the PIP that prop has. If you can stand being a pin coushon the acetate is the best ester available. This is merely a timing standpoint because as we all know in the end test is test no matter which ester is attached to it. In the end when it is metabolized a all and broken down it comes out the same.


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## MightyJohn

I never use deca...bad experiences both times I used it


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## eseng

i have ran both deca and npp.  definitely prefer the npp.  less bloat, lubed joints and great fullness.  never got much strength out of deca or npp tho.

i have ran 400 to 700 mgs of NPP with little to no sides.  

favorite stack was 300mg test p, 400mg npp, and 500mg tren a.


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## Aquascutum828

What would you recommend, NPP eod or e3d?
And please explain.


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## turbobusa

or ed if pinning daily anyway?


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## Aquascutum828

Isn't to often with ed?
The half time is 4,5 days, so maybe it's best with eod?


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## Johnny Ringo

Currently running 100mgs of Npp Mon, Wed, Fri, Started on 2nd week this monday.. Def fill Fuller/Leaner/Stronger already.. Also on 100mgs Test and 100mgs Tren E  Although I've read and heard that Tren E takes approximately 2 weeks to kick in .


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## MilburnCreek

Would one of you experienced wizened ones please state what the hell "npp" stands for?  I read the thread (I'm currently on 400 Deca/wk and fucking annoyed at what I believe is Deca-Dick syndrome) and would like an alternative in the future... npp? Formal Medical name, please?


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## Flex2019

MilburnCreek said:


> Would one of you experienced wizened ones please state what the hell "npp" stands for?  I read the thread (I'm currently on 400 Deca/wk and fucking annoyed at what I believe is Deca-Dick syndrome) and would like an alternative in the future... npp? Formal Medical name, please?



Nandrolone Phenylpropionate


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## alpha6164

Aquascutum828 said:


> What would you recommend, NPP eod or e3d?
> And please explain.



You want to dose it based on your fastest acting compound you are using. On its own using 3 times weekly will be just fine. But lets say you are doing tren daily or every other day then you might as well divide your total weekly dose of the NPP and pin it daily or eod depending on what other compounds you are running.


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## Aquascutum828

Okey, tnx Alpha


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## LuKiFeR

Johnny Ringo said:


> Plan on running low dose Tren 100mgs with my HRT 200 MSG of Test
> 
> What would be better combo for lean muscle gains ? NPP or Masteron?



I wld say Masteron

i love it

Test prop/Mast prop/Proviron/Anavar...oh yea...and GH/T3


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## LuKiFeR

Oh...and add tren ace to tht and u have(imo) THEE best clean muscle gain cycle.
I cant handle tren anymore...mentally.

But thts just my opinion.
If u cant decide....use both!!!


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## LuKiFeR

MilburnCreek said:


> Would one of you experienced wizened ones please state what the hell "npp" stands for?  I read the thread (I'm currently on 400 Deca/wk and fucking annoyed at what I believe is Deca-Dick syndrome) and would like an alternative in the future... npp? Formal Medical name, please?



Npp is just a short estered Deca.
Deca=Nandolone decaonate=slow acting=weekly/biweekly injects
Npp=Nandrolone phenylpropionate=fast acting=requires eod[ish] injects

u get the point...lol


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## Deerslayer41

I'll be running around 500 a week and can't wait.  Do you guys prefer high or low test with npp?


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## snoopy

added npp to tren a, and test prop. Getting harder and bigger.


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## alpha6164

snoopy said:


> added npp to tren a, and test prop. Getting harder and bigger.



That is another huge internet myth that somehow using tren and any nandrolone is a big no no.  If you are super prolactin sensitive it is possible but having these two compounds on board works tremendously.  If you use cabergoline or Prami to control prolactin then even better. When tren and nandrolone are combined with physiologic doses of test the results are pretty awesome. :headbang:


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## The BB Monad

I will give NPP a try in my next cycle - cutting for summer months.
Test Prop and NPP a good idea?


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## b-boy

man i sometimes wonder if message boards are the worse thing for bodybuilders? What did levrone, Ray, dillet, Arnold, Lou F, mentzer, Francois all use?

now please understand im talking about being the biggest most muscular freak that you can..... they took deca durabolin,

these message board trends are getting crazy, low test with tren, low test with high anabolics, NPP instead of deca, NO THANK YOU, I WILL STICK TO THE OLD TRIED AND TRUE WAYS TO BECOMING A FREAK.

test, deca, dbol still stands the test of time when i comes to sheer mass (although i use anadrol instead of dbol)


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## JewJitsu012

I've been reading alot on NPP lately as well, thanks for the write up - seems you condensed days reading and research, why couldn't I have found this one FIRST lol 

Not afraid of pins so NPP sounds much better. 

Also read that Decanoate actually takes from 6-8 weeks to leave your system from the buildup not 4 weeks like people assume.


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## The Grim Repper

dudcki27 said:


> Last time I did NPP was at 100mgs a day for 10 weeks....not to shabby. :action-smiley-033:


This is the exact dosage I'll be using NPP for later this year.  I can't wait! :headbang:


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## The Grim Repper

The BB Monad said:


> I will give NPP a try in my next cycle - cutting for summer months.
> Test Prop and NPP a good idea?


I love prop and NPP.  Nice, dry and steady.


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## JuicedMuscle

Looking to go 200-300mgs a day on Tren Ace soon with Test Prop, Mast and Anadrol.


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## Musclesmayham

alpha6164 said:


> That is another huge internet myth that somehow using tren and any nandrolone is a big no no.  If you are super prolactin sensitive it is possible but having these two compounds on board works tremendously.  If you use cabergoline or Prami to control prolactin then even better. When tren and nandrolone are combined with physiologic doses of test the results are pretty awesome. :headbang:



Is there any compund that does NOT work well with Nandrolone Phenylpropionate?  I like most of us have heard of the Tren myth with NPP, but ill take Alphas advise and bust that myth for now.


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## Aquascutum828

JuicedMuscle said:


> Looking to go 200-300mgs a day on Tren Ace soon with Test Prop, Mast and Anadrol.



:yeahthat:
But not so high Tren.
How much are you gona take on test propp and masterone?


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## Elvia1023

b-boy said:


> man i sometimes wonder if message boards are the worse thing for bodybuilders? What did levrone, Ray, dillet, Arnold, Lou F, mentzer, Francois all use?
> 
> now please understand im talking about being the biggest most muscular freak that you can..... they took deca durabolin,
> 
> these message board trends are getting crazy, low test with tren, low test with high anabolics, NPP instead of deca, NO THANK YOU, I WILL STICK TO THE OLD TRIED AND TRUE WAYS TO BECOMING A FREAK.
> 
> test, deca, dbol still stands the test of time when i comes to sheer mass (although i use anadrol instead of dbol)



Exactly some of the best physiques of all time have been built with deca... more so than test. Deca is king for building muscle. Test, Deca and Dbol/Adrol can't be beaten for sheer mass.


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## RCCTURBOBUSA

NPP is the best stuff I've ever used and I've used pretty much everything. it works like magic at 400 mg a week with high amounts of test.

it did for me at least. that combo makes u see results in like two weeks. real results.

and no bloat either which is great.


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## RIZDRAVER

I used to LOVE low Test ultra-high Deca cycles. Finally doing an NPP cruise of that nature starting in January.


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## Derek7X

surprised that there are so many people on this board that don't feel depression symptoms or anxiety from nandrolone. #genetics


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## RIZDRAVER

Derek7X said:


> surprised that there are so many people on this board that don't feel depression symptoms or anxiety from nandrolone. #genetics



I'm not an anxious person, but I do get that "flighty", "edgy" feeling on it - only when taking 500mg+. Can't classify it as pure anxiety/depression though.


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## AlphaMale

Derek7X said:


> surprised that there are so many people on this board that don't feel depression symptoms or anxiety from nandrolone. #genetics



Why do you say that? I've never experienced or known anyone who has, is it something common?


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## RIZDRAVER

AlphaMale said:


> Why do you say that? I've never experienced or known anyone who has, is it something common?



Any progesterone based compound can have anxiety/depression sides. Talk to any woman that's been on a progesterone based birth control - same story. PMS as well, result of massive spike in progesterone in a woman's minerva part of her cycle.


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## amateurmale

I have bad anxiety on nandrolones


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## AlphaMale

RIZDRAVER said:


> Any progesterone based compound can have anxiety/depression sides. Talk to any woman that's been on a progesterone based birth control - same story. PMS as well, result of massive spike in progesterone in a woman's minerva part of her cycle.



Oh yeah true. 
I've always kept my doses low with great effects and if anything feel a boost in mood. Probably might not be the case with super high doses or length.


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## aminofreak

I blast and cruise with npp

Weeks 1-12 cruise
doc prescribed TRT @ 200mg test cypionate weekly. 12.5mg aromasin daily

Blast 8 weeks
200mg test cypionate weekly
100mg test prop eod with slin pin in biceps
150mg npp eod with slin pin eod in biceps (home brew formula hence the 150mg/ml dosage)
50mg daily proviron
12.5mg aromasin


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## GetSwullll

Much appreciated thread as I've always been huge on my "bread and butter" stacks with Deca. I may try this next go around.


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## guchie

*SRHealth*



AnaSCI said:


> Interesting.



would like to ask you about SRHealth. I have been talking to them about working together but things just don't seem right to me. I would like to no if they are who they say they are. I'm in the process of ordering some test and tren just to see if they are on the up and up before I go any further. Can you help


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## Amber1994

Flex2019 said:


> I've never tried NPP but I use Deca quite a bit.  There is a ton of talk about it lately and most people seem to love it.  I think I'm going to give it a run later in the year.



hope can see your feedback


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## SRHealthTech

NPP (Durabolin ) and ND (Deca ) release almost the same amount of active nandrolone per 100mgs: 69% and 65% respectively; this does not correlate exactly though because blood levels of nandrolone are much higher (about doubled) post NPP usage compared to the same 100mg dose of ND.


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