# IGF Lr3 - PWO?



## J.Lizzle (Jan 4, 2014)

Is the best time Post Workout Intramuscular?

I was gonna do 50mg on waking on NON training days, then 50mcg IM into the muscle worked PWO..

I saw Mike arnold said take it 2hours PWO?

Will be likely using 10iu Slin Pre workout, 4iu HGH PWO and then IGF Lr3

Would like other peoples opinions too...

Thanks


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## Ironbuilt (Jan 5, 2014)

Slin effect is doubled by igf1r3 combined use  , be ready and I'd do preworkout site 25mcg x 2 and remember hgh converts to igf so do solo after workout.IMO

Igf on days at gym only IMO.too


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 5, 2014)

Thanks. Very different on what I've read before which is good. 

So if I do my slin 30 mins pre can I do igf in same pin and split into 2 shots IM


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 6, 2014)

Will be starting this next week


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## Ironbuilt (Jan 7, 2014)

I'd do separate pins as peptides are fragile and can be ruined by other substances.  U are  reconing in 6% acetic acid correct?


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 7, 2014)

Yes mate correct.


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## Ironbuilt (Jan 7, 2014)

Those are buenò senòr .


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## Magnus82 (Jan 7, 2014)

J are you taking this for site enhancement or for an overall better look


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 7, 2014)

Magnus82 said:


> J are you taking this for site enhancement or for an overall better look



Hey Magnus...

Well I really don't buy into site enhancement so I'd say for a better overall look buddy


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 9, 2014)

Magnus....


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## Ironbuilt (Jan 9, 2014)

Just call him "buffalo suicide".

Lizzle clear your pm box matey. Its Full ...


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 9, 2014)

Ironbuilt said:


> Just call him "buffalo suicide".
> 
> Lizzle clear your pm box matey. Its Full ...







just cleared it mate


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## swolesearcher (Jan 9, 2014)

Magnus82 said:


> J are you taking this for site enhancement or for an overall better look



bro what would you suggest for someone who`s looking for the site enhancement?
thanks


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## Magnus82 (Jan 9, 2014)

Sorry Lizzy!  Reason I asked is I had a better recomping effect with daily dosing.   I followed IB's suggestion for pwo and hit another previously worked muscle the next morning.  I also used 50mcg split bilaterally.


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## Magnus82 (Jan 9, 2014)

MoFo said:


> bro what would you suggest to someone who is looking for the site enhancement?
> thanks



 mofo,  the most effective protocol I found was 50mcg  igf-des split bilaterally preworkout followed by 50mcg mgf split bilaterally postworkout . In 2 30 day cycles I gained a permanent 3/8" or for you 9.5mm.  That being said the third time I tried it wasn't nearly as effective.


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## swolesearcher (Jan 9, 2014)

Magnus82 said:


> mofo,  the most effective protocol I found was 50mcg  igf-des split bilaterally preworkout followed by 50mcg mgf split bilaterally postworkout . In 2 30 day cycles I gained a permanent 3/8" or for you 9.5mm.  That being said the third time I tried it wasn't nearly as effective.



that`s a pretty good result bro. thanks for sharing your experience.


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## BIGAINS (Jan 10, 2014)

I have liked IGF1LR3 pre-workout with the HGH and insulin post workout. With the IGF alone pre-workout I have to drink carbs during my workout to prevent from feeling hypo. I would do the IGF or the insulin pre-workout but not both personally just leads to going hypo too easy IMO.


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## rbj80 (Jan 14, 2014)

hey guys give or take how much more carbs should we be adding if we do lr3 with slin preworkout? (on top of the slin)


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 18, 2014)

So deffo igf pre workout....im NOT using slin. 

Mike Arnold said to use 2 hours post workout


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 18, 2014)

Continue Reading ....


Take it before bed and dont use peg due to its long half life. Here is the first part.. if you need more i can continue. I have read a few different posts from Dat and re wrote some of it to make sense in my head and to help keep it more simple and summarised multiple threads..

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First of all, our aim is to increase anabolism right.. That’s why we want IGF-1, anabolism is all about 3 main things;

1.increasing protein synthesis
2.differentiation
3.proliferation

We get to a point with protein synthesis where our body cant do any more, why ? Because we have run out of ribosomes manufacturing plants to make more protein. Once they are maxed out we need more. The ‘plant’ is DNA, we need our body to create more manufacturing plans to create more ribosomes where the proteins can actually be made. Without these additional “DNA plants” once you max out you existing ones you no longer have additional protein synthesis thus anabolism. Things like GH / Mod GRF / GHRP / Test increase this potential new plants. 

IGF-1 has a role, differentiation, which means it moving these plants into place. But we need more to be created first, and that is called proliferation.
It is the special IGF-1 called IGF-1EC (or Mechano Growth Factor) which is proliferative, NOT IGF-LR3 or DES. Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRP and pulsed GH can increase MGF (MGF is made and used in muscle cells... it is not made in the liver and sent out systemically in blood). GH elevations can also increase MGF BUT GH elevations also increase IGF-1 which can interfere with MGF.

It is more difficult to keep proliferation going then it is to bring about differentiation because differentiation always cuts short proliferation as soon as it is introduced. And that’s why when you keep using LR3 and DES at the WRONG TIME, you are stopping proliferation. 

So building more DNA plants and donating them to muscle cells is hugely important. Once that new DNA is in place you can keep doing what you usually do to keep protein synthesis going in all the old and now new DNA plants.

Why is MGF-proliferation important and why do we need to make sure we are not taking anything to blunt its release. MGF occurs post workout and over the next 48 hours and then IGF-1 takes those proliferated nuclei and fuses them into muscle cells and then IGF-1, GH pulses and natural testosterone, even insulin contributes to increasing the protein synthesis which comes from the new plants.

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For those non medically minded and just want cliff notes..

How NOT to use IGF-LR3
lipolysis? IGF-1 doesn't do that in people who aren't GH deficient. It only feels that way due to the glucose disposal

Increased muscle growth "proliferation" 
Mod GRF (1-29)/GHRPs (GH in general) increase IGF-1 (especially locally in muscle tissue). Local/muscle IGF-1 trumps systemic IGF-1. IGF-1 LR3 is "systemic" and will not benefit muscle much. 

]Pre WO ? you will get better pumps yes, but it will interfere with the MGF your body will produce post work out due to its long half life. DES half life is shorter thus you can get the better pumps benefit and not interfere with MGF (when using Pre WO).

]Post WO ? WORST time to do it, not only did you not get the "pumps" benefit, It will interfere with the MGF your body will produce post work out.


What about the vascular effect and pump ? Yes you will get it but it will interfere with you natural MGF Post WO

How to use IGF-LR3
Get some to work in the muscle group your injecting into
micro-dose (3-5) Intra-muscular

At least 8 hours after workout, if working out early in the morning then at night, if training at night then following morning 

A cycle around 4 weeks should be done AFTER you have created some new DNA plants and been proliferating (Using MGF) so you have the ability to do more protein synthesis than your previous maxed out 'plants' could offer.

Which IGF-1 helps muscle? Only MGF (IGF1-Ec) will interfere with muscle IGF-1 receptors.

So Summary
IGF-1 LR3 or IGF-1 DES:

1. Do NOT increase cell proliferation (they act as a differentiator)
2. Will interfere with endogenous post-workout MGF (cell proliferator) if administered immediately before or after a workout
3. Can inhibit lipolysis in some people
4. Can cause hypoglycemia by binding to insulin receptors
5. Are completely different than endogenous, locally created autocrine/paracrine IGF-1, which is produced by GHRP/Mod GRF 1-29
6. Can aid in healing injured tissue if micro-dosed local to injury ("trauma")


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## butthole69 (Jan 19, 2014)

Lr3 seems to mostly work as an insulin analog. I have found IGF DES 1,3 and peg-MGF to be the most effective combination. hMGF can be added also. Here's some good info on IGF from basskilleronline



> I guess I'm writing this as much to sort it all out as to tell what I know (which is very little when it comes to this). Right now there are several variations of insulin like growth factor available on the market. It is my contention that some of these simply do not work for our goals, or at least they don't work "as they should". I want to explain why I think that and also which ones have greater potential and why.
> 
> The peptide IGF-1 LR3 is the most common, popular and prevalent form available right now. But, there is a big question of whether it works and by what mechanism. Originally we had a bio-identical version of igf-1, rigf-1, that was very short acting. Though it was in and out of your system very quickly it had a reputation for inducing hyperplasia (activation and maturation of muscle satellite cells).Igf-1 LR3 was developed for use in the lab in tissue cultures because the bio-idential igf-1 was not lasting in experiments. rigf-1= 70 amino acids, LR3= 83 amino acid sequence. As a result LR3 works very differently. Most in the know say that it is not going to activate satellite cells/induce hyperplasia because of it's amino acid structure. It just doesn't bind to the cells and cannot be broken down properly in the body for that purpose. It does, however, have insulin-like effects (duh, right?). I've experienced this first hand. So, used on a steroid cycle it'll boost gains just as humalog would. Do you get pumps and greater vascularity from insulin? Well, you'll get it from IGF-1 LR3 as well. And, imo, that's about it. It's all of the "insulin like" with non of the (for our purposes/hyperplasia) special "growth factor."
> 
> ...


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## chester420 (Jan 19, 2014)

> DES (1-3) IGF-1 + IGF-2 LR3 immediately pre workout with PEG (or non PEG, your call) MGF immediately post workout



can anybody chime in on the dosages they use during this potocol? thx


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## rbj80 (Jan 21, 2014)

I know a few ppl who swear by 100mcg pre workout, but definitely need 2 weeks off after 4 weeks on


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## sh00t (Feb 11, 2014)

Magnus82 said:


> mofo,  the most effective protocol I found was 50mcg  igf-des split bilaterally preworkout followed by 50mcg mgf split bilaterally postworkout . In 2 30 day cycles I gained a permanent 3/8" or for you 9.5mm.  That being said the third time I tried it wasn't nearly as effective.



Did you happen to change up sponsors?
What about trying MGF immediately post workout & IGF-LR3 8 hours post workout?
Have you tried any other dosing schedule?


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## Magnus82 (Feb 11, 2014)

No,  I use 3 sponsors and all are gtg.   Alpha has a thread on PM for the ones he tested legit.  I do take mgf immediately postworkout.  I take lr3 the following morning in the muscle trained.   Have tried a few other protocols but I don't see gaining much more than I do with this.


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