# Serious frustration



## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 13, 2013)

Ok so I made some Tren E and Test E about a week and a half ago. The receiver that came with the bottle top filter cracked. Stored both compounds in bottles until my new one came.

This one cracked too at half the pressure of the other one :banghead:
I placed this order half asleep and ordered the wrong size glass receiver as well :banghead: and my Tren E is crashing. I say F**k bottle top filters and am ordering some syringe filters. As for the crashing Tren how much BB would I add to 200ml that already has 20% BB?

Thanks ahead of time, this has been a 2 week long migraine for me :action-smiley-060::banghead::action-smiley-060::banghead:


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## FordFan (Mar 14, 2013)

Ok bud, step back and calm down. For your 200ml of tren you left out critical components....how many mg/ml, ba%, any eo?

If you've made tren with the same formula successfully before, something else is the problem.

Concerning bottletop vs syringe. I'm assuming you're using plastic receivers. What psi were you at? Was the filter tight? Did you over tighten?

Lots of variables that could be the root of your problem.

Brewing requires lots of patience. Be careful.


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 14, 2013)

This song is heard over and over with those plastic receivers etc. That's why I leave  the whole hassle to a pharmacy. Ford hit on every valid issue and I'll add temp of compound while filtering is another. Its not the end a the world. Someone here will assist further bro so provide answers ..thanks


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 14, 2013)

Thanks guys. 2% ba 20% bb 250mg/ml,  using only USP grapeseed oil. Psi was at 10


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## FordFan (Mar 14, 2013)

Bodybuilder0713 said:


> Thanks guys. 2% ba 20% bb 250mg/ml,  using only USP grapeseed oil. Psi was at 10



Concerning your brew formula, that should hold. I always put at least 5% eo in everything to assist (that's me).

10psi is way too much for plastic. Stick with 5psi max.  Maybe next time before filtering, let solution sit a few hours to see if it crashes.


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## powders101 (Mar 15, 2013)

FordFan said:


> Concerning your brew formula, that should hold. I always put at least 5% eo in everything to assist (that's me).
> 
> 10psi is way too much for plastic. Stick with 5psi max.  Maybe next time before filtering, let solution sit a few hours to see if it crashes.



:yeahthat:


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 15, 2013)

It wasn't super hot was it?..that's been issues before and high psi per fordfan reply..


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 15, 2013)

Nope I filtered at room temp, I have whatman syringe filters coming so no need to worry about that. But as for the crashing, is it unsafe to add a tad more BB? I don't want to be heating it up every inject. 200ml, I figured I'd add 1ml of BB each night until it stops crashing? It's being stored at room temp upstairs so hotter than colder. My Test E is not crashing as per the recipe on here..


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## striffe (Mar 15, 2013)

Your tren should be holding. Do you live in a very cold climate? What is room temp at your house? Which bottle top units are you using? Are you sure you did your math right? When making large batches, small errors in your math can change the mixture a lot. For instance, what number did you use for powder displacement? If you used the standard .85 average that most people use, then your brew is probably stronger than 250mg/ml. I cant recall the displacement for tren e at the moment, but im pretty sure its more than .85. An average would be okay if it was a small batch. But a batch that size can be way off if the correct powder displacement isnt used.


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## highdrum (Mar 15, 2013)

I made some Tren E @ 200mg /ml all with 2% BA, 20% BB, they stay in solution just fine to about 55*, at that point, they can start to crash.  How hot did you bring the sloution to when cooking?  I know tren requires high heat to break down the raw into solution, and maybe some of your solvents evaporated?  Thats why tren gets its amber like color, the oxidization of the carrier oils/compounds when high heat is applied during the cook.


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## striffe (Mar 15, 2013)

You bring up a good point. Perhaps he didnt use enough heat, therefore the hormone never made it into a stable solution.
However, the oxidation you speak of only happens with tren. But its not the carrier and solvents that oxidize. There are other hornones that require a lot more heat than tren, and oxidation does not occur. Winny is a good example. You can bring your solvents, cosolvents, and carriers to a boil without oxidation. Just sayin.


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 16, 2013)

Powder displacement was .909 I've heated it in to solution  twice at 180-190 degrees F solution was completely clear with no swirls both times.


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

Bodybuilder0713 said:


> Powder displacement was .909 I've heated it in to solution  twice at 180-190 degrees F solution was completely clear with no swirls both times.



You def shouldnt be having any problem then. Is there any chance you made a mistake in your math? Did you double check? 
Maybe you got tren ace instead of enth. Did you do a melting point test? Im reaching now, it should be holding fine. 
One more question. You say its crashing, how bad? Is it getting foggy, or is it crystalizing?


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 16, 2013)

Maybe scale is off


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## Zaven (Mar 16, 2013)

Just add more oil to reach a 200mg concentration and refilter BUT, it should be holding anyways as is.  You could add a little more BA but them it will just crystallize faster in the muscle.

If your math is correct and your using quality solvents then my guess is your Tren E is of low quality or tainted...lol  (no disrespect, just a logical assumption)

Also is the Tren actually crashed or just an excess of moisture...??


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 16, 2013)

This was my first brew, everything was calculated correctly although I was using a syringe to add in the BB/BA/Grapeseed. Quite possible I could have measured out wrong within a ML. My friend Bruce is raved about, smell of powder/look/feel was on point. Ordered 50g and scale read exactly at 50g. I'm positive it wasn't crashed when I first put it in the top of the bottletop filter, was completely clear and golden it's almost as if the filter made it crash or it just so happened to crash within that time period, about 24hrs after I heated it up (wanted to see if it would crash before I filtered). My guess is it's overdosed or I didn't add enough BB.


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 16, 2013)

OK 
Do you have another filter and vial? Rip off top and measure ml and let us know.
Seems like possibly bad quality but when u are unsure of what exactly is measured could be issue .break down amounts of items and post.don't give up yet..lotta chem drs here.


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## Zaven (Mar 16, 2013)

Bodybuilder0713 said:


> This was my first brew, everything was calculated correctly although I was using a syringe to add in the BB/BA/Grapeseed. Quite possible I could have measured out wrong within a ML. My friend Bruce is raved about, smell of powder/look/feel was on point. Ordered 50g and scale read exactly at 50g. I'm positive it wasn't crashed when I first put it in the top of the bottletop filter, was completely clear and golden it's almost as if the filter made it crash or it just so happened to crash within that time period, about 24hrs after I heated it up (wanted to see if it would crash before I filtered).* My guess is it's overdosed or I didn't add enough BB*.



Not enough BB wouldn't cause the crash as much as the proper hormone to BA ratio would.  BA controls the crash of the solution in the vial whereas the addition of BB to the BA slows the crash of the solution in the muscle.  BA is absorbed by the body faster than BB.

It's all about lipid solubility of ester compounds and crystallization precipitation.


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## FordFan (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm thinking two possibilities:

1- error in math
2- you possibly have tren a instead

I'm going with option 1. Just trying to help.


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## Enigmatic707 (Mar 16, 2013)

FordFan said:


> I'm thinking two possibilities:
> 
> 1- error in math
> 2- you possibly have tren a instead
> ...



Option two.. For it to crash that bad your math would have to be way off. 

I'm thinking you have the wrong hormone- did you try a melt point test? That's what I would do-


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

Zaven said:


> Not enough BB wouldn't cause the crash as much as the proper hormone to BA ratio would.  BA controls the crash of the solution in the vial whereas the addition of BB to the BA slows the crash of the solution in the muscle.  BA is absorbed by the body faster than BB.
> 
> It's all about lipid solubility of ester compounds and crystallization precipitation.



I disagree. BA is a solvent, but we do not use it as such. 1% BA, 2% BA, 3% BA are all used as a preservative and to kill bacteria. The amount of BB will most certainly make or break the stability of a solution.


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

Bodybuilder0713 said:


> This was my first brew, everything was calculated correctly although I was using a syringe to add in the BB/BA/Grapeseed. Quite possible I could have measured out wrong within a ML. My friend Bruce is raved about, smell of powder/look/feel was on point. Ordered 50g and scale read exactly at 50g. I'm positive it wasn't crashed when I first put it in the top of the bottletop filter, was completely clear and golden it's almost as if the filter made it crash or it just so happened to crash within that time period, about 24hrs after I heated it up (wanted to see if it would crash before I filtered). My guess is it's overdosed or I didn't add enough BB.



Now that I know where it came from, I think you are right, very unlikely its bad product. Although everyone makes mistakes, I would do a melting point test. 
When you reheat, does it go back to a clear solution again?
Was the __ kind of silky looking and off white in color before you used it?
You said you used a syringe to measure your fluids, did you use a small one for a large amount of fluid transfer? In other words, did you use a 10cc syringe to measure say 75ml of fluid? Because, its very easy to lose track of how many times you sucked and squirted, know what I mean?
As IB said, maybe you need to measure the entire bottle to see if you have the correct amount of total fluid. If not, then maybe thats an indication that you mis measured.


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## FordFan (Mar 16, 2013)

Your friend is a very good friend!! I highly doubt he sent wrong product (mistakes do happen though).

I'm going with math error.


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 16, 2013)

Ok thanks guys, never thought about measuring how much BB I had left. Seems I have and extra 5ccs of BB more than I should (50cc-40cc =10cc but I have 15cc). I used the calculator webpage that was given here, my calculations were positively not wrong, the only problem that could be my error is using a 10cc syringe to transfer. My guess is add 4cc of BB heat into solution then wait 48hrs. Does this sound correct?


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

Bodybuilder0713 said:


> Ok thanks guys, never thought about measuring how much BB I had left. Seems I have and extra 5ccs of BB more than I should (50cc-40cc =10cc but I have 15cc). I used the calculator webpage that was given here, my calculations were positively not wrong, the only problem that could be my error is using a 10cc syringe to transfer. My guess is add 4cc of BB heat into solution then wait 48hrs. Does this sound correct?



It def wont hurt. Its a 100ml, right? I dont think 4ml is going to change things, but like I said, it wont hurt. Does it come clear when you heat it? Its hard to tell what it really looks like from your photo. Why is the crashed solution all the way up the sides of vial to the cap? Above the solution. Did you shake it? Or did it do that by itself?


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

If it will come clear after reheating, then I would reheat, then withdraw 10ml of the clear solution, and put it into a 10 or even 20ml vial. Lets fix a small part of the mix before we go adding to your whole batch. You know what I mean?


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 16, 2013)

Don't trust what bottle of bb looks like..:what if amount labeled 100ml is 105 or more from store?.prob isn't but never know.


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 16, 2013)

hijacked said:


> If it will come clear after reheating, then I would reheat, then withdraw 10ml of the clear solution, and put it into a 10 or even 20ml vial. Lets fix a small part of the mix before we go adding to your whole batch. You know what I mean?



Its 200ml. It will go back into solution when I reheat to around 180 degrees F. After I put 10cc in a vial what are my first steps of fixing it?


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> Don't trust what bottle of bb looks like..:what if amount labeled 100ml is 105 or more from store?.prob isn't but never know.



I agree.


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

Bodybuilder0713 said:


> Its 200ml. It will go back into solution when I reheat to around 180 degrees F. After I put 10cc in a vial what are my first steps of fixing it?



Okay, so in your 10ml vial you should have (theoretically)

2.5g dust
.2ml BA (2%)
2ml BB (20%)
5.53ml carrier
Although 20% should be fine. But we have to try something.
I would heat the 10ml vial with vent until you have a clear solution. Then add .5ml of BB. Report back and let us know if that holds. Did the big bottle crash as soon as it hit room temp? Or did it take overnight to crash?


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 16, 2013)

hijacked said:


> what percentage of bb did you use originally



20%


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 16, 2013)

hijacked said:


> Did the big bottle crash as soon as it hit room temp? Or did it take overnight to crash?



Took longer than 24hrs


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 16, 2013)

U removeing from vial or on rescue mission now?


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> U removeing from vial or on rescue mission now?



He heated the 200ml bottle until it was clear again, then removed 10ml of that and put it int our another vial. Then he is working on the 10ml vial until he can get it stable before he goes messing with the big jug.
So he just added some bb to the 10ml vial and we are going to wait and see if it holds. 
If it holds, then he will know what to do with the big one.


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 16, 2013)

Good idea..what if 200 ml is 210ml
He will do 10 x 20 v to fix..?


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## striffe (Mar 16, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> U removeing from vial or on rescue mission now?



He heated the 200ml bottle until it was clear again, then removed 10ml of that and put it int our another vial. Then he is working on the 10ml vial until he can get it stable before he goes messing with the big jug.
So he just added some bb to the 10ml vial and we are going to wait and see if it holds. 
If it holds, then he will know what to do with the big one.


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 16, 2013)

Oh
What if he has 210ml.? Just saying .no brain no gain.. kdn guys


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## CONOFVIS (Mar 16, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> Don't trust what bottle of bb looks like..:what if amount labeled 100ml is 105 or more from store?.prob isn't but never know.




Good point. Not all BB is created equal...

I know of a U.S. company that produces 7 Grades of BB.

The cost difference is dramatic! 5kg could cost $2,700 or 5kg for $95.00

Extreme difference in quality raw material. So that's just my $0.02

On another note, Bodybuilder0713...go to this site and input your numbers...just to reassure yourself math is 100%

Untitled


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## Bodybuilder0713 (Mar 17, 2013)

Can anyone say this doesn't look beautiful when it's not crashed? lol


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## greggy (Mar 17, 2013)

Your percentages are correct. Can you post how much of each solvent and how much gso you used.


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## greggy (Mar 17, 2013)

Did you weigh the powder before making the batch to see if you had the correct grams? I've ordered 100g of product and ended up with 10g extra than what I ordered. Not complaining though.


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## striffe (Mar 18, 2013)

Bodybuilder0713 said:


> Can anyone say this doesn't look beautiful when it's not crashed? lol



BB, how did the 10ml vial look today? Did it crash?


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## Ironbuilt (Mar 18, 2013)

That warm beaker looks like it will crash..its not right ..or maybe shitty camera.. how many mls is the 200 ml u had after redoing or whatever u did.


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## striffe (Mar 18, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> That warm beaker looks like it will crash..its not right ..or maybe shitty camera.. how many mls is the 200 ml u had after redoing or whatever u did.



I agree, I dont know if its just the photo or what. But it should be crystal clear. Like IB said, looks crashed already.


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## FordFan (Mar 19, 2013)

Third here, it doesn't look right or just a bad pic.


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## Rizzo (Mar 28, 2013)

did you let it sit over night to see if it would hold?  did you start filtering as soon as it cooled down from your brew? doesn't look like it was heated correctly from that pic.


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