# upping my dosage benefits.



## bruiser (Jun 19, 2014)

My cycle is always

1000mg tren e
500mg npp
300 test p

Love it but was wondering if I should add more test or npp for more muscle.   Muscle not mass. I know it's a lot.  I'm a veteran with AAS and my bloods
are good. What "extra" can I get from upping some compounds? 
Sides yes, water yes, LBS?


Like

1000mg tren e
500mg npp
750mg test

Or

1000mg tren e
1000mg npp
300mg test

Many say test is a weak anabolic so just take enough to function. 

Ur thoughts
I love two 19 nor by the way in case anyone 
Muscle is my main purpose not mass

Orals and slin are another topic


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## humpthebobcat (Jun 20, 2014)

if you're not growing on test deca and tren I'd say GH and slin


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Oh I grow.
I'm just the type to start dosages lower and gain off as lil as I can.
I won't go higher with tren. It's already high as fuck.
but I'm wondering if I should up test or deca.
I'm not looking for scale weight but quality.

I dont slin till I need to


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

I use test very low to let the others do their work.

But maybe I need to up it. LBM IS WHAT IM AFTER


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

You may not believe me, or think I'm retarded, but I would simply switch around your doses rather than increase first. 


1000 npp
500 tren


Test is up to you, obviously more test gives more mass gains, I would first just keep it at 150-200 and see how you do with just the higher NPP. 

Wait about 8 weeks (or whatever a full cycle duration is for you). 

If you're still unsatisfied, and are prepared to deal with more side effects (not always, but most likely),  then you can try increasing test to 750.

Do another cycle like this and see if happy with results. 

If still unhappy, then increase to 1k test and do another cycle. 

Note the results. 

If you're still unhappy on those, then add 100 anadrol to the mix, or 50 dbol for 8 weeks and track blood lipids, cholesterol, etc. 


If this STILL leaves you unsatisfied (this is about 1 year worth of cycles almost), then its time to buckle up and add the GH.  Start around 4iu pharmacy grade. 

I feel that these cycles are rather unhealthy, mostly the fact that you use so much Tren. If you're not be coming ifbb pro BODYBUILDER, I would just scratch all this and do the following :

2k test
1k npp
4-6iu GH
Dbol at 50+ or anadrol at 100+ 8weeks

This stack I just mentioned should blow you up really good, I don't think its remotely possibly that you won't be pleased, but the GH will eat your pocket.

Personally, if I were in your shoes and was doing this recreationally but just wanted to get some serious mass.. I would tone it down even from the above mentioned stack

1k test
600 npp
4iu pharm GH ed
Orals added 4on/4off 

Get bloods done regularly.. But yeah


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you.
I appreciate the time you spent writing that out.

Remember,  I'm looking for muscle not mass

Im basically looking to know which compound to up
between test and npp. 
The high tren is the same.
I should mention. Im on my cycle and to that point of upping one or the other between test p and npp.  orals, slin, and hgh are not an option right now.
I don't believe hgh is in my spectrum yet. Ive used it already in the past for year. It's an expensive fat burner.  And slin, its not the month for it.

I just need some advice on which would add more lbm if you
had to pick between test and deca


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

People will give you conflicting opinions on whether test or npp will add more mass. There isn't a definitive answer here. Me and most of my buddies will say that higher NPP definetly wins hands down, unless you take GH then and crank test to 1000-2000 then the test will be better (this is opinion and what works for particular people, not everybody) 

To give my short answer : NPP

Tbh, in this case though, I would just increase BOTH....? Unless you are trying to minimize sides caused by test, which is smart... But yeah you can obviously just increase test to 750 and npp by a few hundred. 

Once again I really don't think you need to put the tren at 1000...

1k npp
750 test
500 tren or less

Is a viable option if you're not side effect prone to running your compounds like this.


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## Sully (Jun 20, 2014)

I'm slightly confused why you keep saying you want to put on muscle and not mass, as though mass is synonymous with fat. We all want to put on lean muscle mass when on cycle. No one in the history of AAS has ever gone into a cycle saying "Man, I really hope I can put on 50-60 pounds of fat from this cycle." The whole point of using AAS is to put on muscle, not fat. You sound ridiculous saying u want to put on muscle and not mass. In this community, muscle and mass actually are synonyms. 

The thought you're actually trying to express is something akin to "I really want to focus on slow, consistent, lean mass gains and limit the amount of body fat I put on."


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

I know it does sound kind of ridiculous, but in his defense, I can understand why he is pointing it out, because on every forum you find tons of people that say "YEAH BRO, JUST POP THEM A50'S...YOU'LL GAIN 10LBS IN A WEEK LIKE I DID....THEYRE AMAZING!!" when 9lbs of it, if not all 10 in the first week was water.

This is an overly dramatized example, and it is a bit asinine, but it is just trying to delineate the point he is trying to make .I am not defending OP, because it does sound silly....but he has probably come across a lot of test/dbol bros that talk about gaining 40lbs in a cycle only to keep maybe 15 after the cycle is over lol.


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## humpthebobcat (Jun 20, 2014)

anybody else thinking troll?


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek,  yes!

"Mass" in these forums is bloated up.  I've been on these forums for over ten years, mass is over use by the "20lbs of muscle in a month" guys.

I obviously mean LBM

My tren always gets that high.
I'm one of those  low test high tren guys.
it's just amazing what it can do for you. As long as
your health is fine.

Ive gained more lbm on low test high tren than hgh test and lower tren.

Derek, can u explain the Gh test thing.


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Derek,  yes!
> 
> "Mass" in these forums is bloated up.  I've been on these forums for over ten years, mass is over use by the "20lbs of muscle in a month" guys.
> 
> ...





That's great. 

So are you going to do the 1K NPP/500 Tren/low test or what?


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Hump, if by troll you mean post pointless replies that do nothing for anyone? 

If so thats is you brother. 

If you have no advice, don't waste your time and look stupid. 
Bye Felicia! 

So tired of these forums that get flooded with disrespectful 
clowns.


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## Enigmatic707 (Jun 20, 2014)

Best cycle for me was 
2.1g of Deca
800 TrenE 
100mg drol
250 sust 

A ton of lean mass


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## Ironbuilt (Jun 20, 2014)

Enigmatic707 said:


> Best cycle for me was
> 2.1g of Deca
> 800 TrenE
> 100mg drol
> ...



No Ment?


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

Enigmatic707 said:


> Best cycle for me was
> 2.1g of Deca
> 800 TrenE
> 100mg drol
> ...



lol someone I know tried 2400 deca and fell sick with serum sickness within 1 week, it took him 2 weeks to not be extremely sick in bed,it was 300 more than you, but I have a feeling you would have been fine just adding that extra 300 lol

genetics...sheesh


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek.

My tren is gonna be the same.  I love it.
So I wanted to just up one of the others.

Your saying to keep mg amount the same but switch the nor dosages?
that would change up things for the good.

My test is lower for sides. But I've never tried high test with high tren.
I wouldn't wanna waste extra test unless it cause a major benefit.

That mass word comes into play.  Noobs assuming muscle.
this is why I gradually up dosages till this moment.


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## Enigmatic707 (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek7X said:


> lol someone I know tried 2400 deca and fell sick with serum sickness within 1 week, it took him 2 weeks to not be extremely sick in bed,it was 300 more than you, but I have a feeling you would have been fine just adding that extra 300 lol
> 
> 
> 
> genetics...sheesh




Some one getting sick off 2.4g of Deca after one week doesn't make a lot of sense- less than 1.2g would be flowing in his system at that point. For the average guy doing 800-900 of Deca would have well over 1.2g in his system after 6 weeks at that dose... So I have to believe some thing aside from the mega dose is what made him sick.


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Ironbuilt said:


> No Ment?



Ment seems beautiful lol.

But someone said it feels the same as high test/tren.
Which is "cheaper"


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Derek.
> 
> My tren is gonna be the same.  I love it.
> So I wanted to just up one of the others.
> ...





I gotta say man, I'm pretty worried that you just consistently run like 1K tren over and over, and you aren't even planning to be an IFBB Pro or anything... lol... 

Anyways, yeah I guess try the 1K NPP/500 Tren


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Enigmatic707 said:


> Best cycle for me was
> 2.1g of Deca
> 800 TrenE
> 100mg drol
> ...



Seriously? 

Explain that high of deca, unless you're being sarcastic.
 And 250 sust?  You can't mean 1 shot of sust per week, can you?


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

Enigmatic707 said:


> Some one getting sick off 2.4g of Deca after one week doesn't make a lot of sense- less than 1.2g would be flowing in his system at that point. For the average guy doing 800-900 of Deca would have well over 1.2g in his system after 6 weeks at that dose... So I have to believe some thing aside from the mega dose is what made him sick.



It was actually in the middle of the second week - but yeah probably still wouldn't make much sense..?

Idk man, idk what to say, it happened lol.  I know he uses 100-150 NPP ED now and that doesn't happen.


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Explain that high of deca, unless you're being sarcastic.
> And 250 sust?  You can't mean 1 shot of sust per week, can you?




what's wrong with 250 sust a week?


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## Enigmatic707 (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek7X said:


> It was actually in the middle of the second week - but yeah probably still wouldn't make much sense..?
> 
> 
> 
> Idk man, idk what to say, it happened lol.  I know he uses 100-150 NPP ED now and that doesn't happen.




How did he know it was the Deca?


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## Enigmatic707 (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What do you want me to explain? I did 300mg of Deca a day-

300+300+300+300+300+300+300 = 2100

It was awesome and I will do it again, no sides and a lot of mass and strength!


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek7X said:


> I gotta say pretty worried that you just consistently run like 1K tren over and over, and you aren't even planning to be an IFBB Pro or anything... lol...
> 
> Anyways, yeah I guess try the 1K NPP/500 Tren



If you saw what I looked like you'd understand. 
And buddy, I'm obviously trying to get somewhere in bodybuilding.

Ill pm u my facebook to see my pic. Then let me know your thoughts


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Enigmatic707 said:


> What do you want me to explain? I did 300mg of Deca a day-
> 
> 300+300+300+300+300+300+300 = 2100
> 
> It was awesome and I will do it again, no sides and a lot of mass and strength!



Lol, no no. Like your reasoning for it.


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## Enigmatic707 (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Lol, no no. Like your reasoning for it.




Umm bro science- more is better!


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek7X said:


> what's wrong with 250 sust a week?



Blood levels?

Just seems odd to me.


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## Enigmatic707 (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Lol, no no. Like your reasoning for it.




Bu in all seriousness I only blast really heavy with a compound for 4-5 weeks then totally drop it and then blast something else back to back- it's what my body responds best to.


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Enigmatic707 said:


> Bu in all seriousness I only blast really heavy with a compound for 4-5 weeks then totally drop it and then blast something else back to back- it's what my body responds best to.



Ive done the same thing with short esters
Its awesome.   I only use tren e cause a gives me a cough every time.


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek,  sent u what I look like.

Any change of advice or same?


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Derek,  sent u what I look like.
> 
> Any change of advice or same?




Dude, I just clicked your facebook.

I have to say, you are HUGE...!Then again, 1K Tren a week as a staple of your cycle, I can understand.

Did you attain this size without a good amount of GH Use? How often have you used GH, and at what dosage?

You got to that size only using tren,npp,test? No orals? What exactly were your cycles ...lol??

You have to make a very big decision here: to go all out and become an ifbb pro, or stay a closet bodybuilder and just do this for fun. I have a feeling that in reality you're trying to stick more toward the latter..... otherwise you will have to start hopping on a lot of GH/Insulin/Peptides and drastically change your entire life+empty your wallet.

Tbh, at your size, I don't even know what to say about what cycle you should run. I personally feel like you don't really have much farther you can go using purely injectables/orals....at the size you're at, I'm thinking you pretty much have to add hgh at the minimum to start really morphing. idk


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## humpthebobcat (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Oh I grow.
> I'm just the type to start dosages lower and gain off as lil as I can.
> I won't go higher with tren. It's already high as fuck.
> but I'm wondering if I should up test or deca.
> ...



so you grow but it's not quality enough?


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek7X said:


> Dude, I just clicked your facebook.
> 
> I have to say, you are HUGE...!Then again, 1K Tren a week as a staple of your cycle, I can understand.
> 
> ...



Well. Thanks for the compliment.
I'm only 220lbs though. Just big proportions in certain body parts.
lacking in others.

Ive been doing this for ten years.
hgh.  I used rips for six months and Eli for six months.
Looked okay but not much extra lbm.  5iu 5x week.

Orals:
never used Anadrol. Dbol twice
Anavar once, tool once, and a few prohormones.
slin twice.

High tren/ super dmz/Alphamax.  Gain city..


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

humpthebobcat said:


> so you grow but not quality enough?



I hate slin. And hgh doesnt do much at what i can afford.
I dont want a huge waist or face lol at the amout ill need.

I won't go higher on tren. Orals i prefer prohormones. But even with udca i fear them.  Never tried test past 1gram. Or deca.

I just wanna up certain things to see what I can get.
I gain quality. I'm more about that than scale weight.
visual changes. Exaggerated proportions.
The scale going up is nice but I'm visual. 
I wanna do all I can before it gets to me being broke.


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek7X said:


> Dude, I just clicked your facebook.
> 
> I have to say, you are HUGE...!Then again, 1K Tren a week as a staple of your cycle, I can understand.
> 
> ...



My cycles have been pretty standard.
but I actually start on lower dosages and build up.
Ill be honest I don't do pct anymore.   Just trt it and blast for awhile.


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## Derek7X (Jun 20, 2014)

220?Dude I have been 220 off season (I do men's physique) and didn't look that big at all. How tall are you?! That's might explain it.


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## humpthebobcat (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> I just wanna up certain things to see what I can get.



more deca then.....I feel like you are looking for a magic bullet...which to my poor and meager understanding is tren...which you're maxed out on already...so...more deca!


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Derek7X said:


> 220?Dude I have been 220 off season (I do men's physique) and didn't look that big at all. How tall are you?! That's might explain it.



Im normally 230.  Im 5'9


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

humpthebobcat said:


> more deca then.....I feel like you are looking for a magic bullet...which to my poor and meager understanding is tren...which you're maxed out on already...so...more deca!



1000 is my max on tren.  I work my way up to it.
If I dont stop completely ill simply raise another compound.

So deca you think.

Someone mentioned test high if on gh?

I do use peptides.
hex 250mcg 3x day
Ghrp 6. 100mcg 3x day
cjc (with dac) 2mg a week


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## Enigmatic707 (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Im normally 230.  Im 5'9




Post a pic here- crop out your face and let's take a look at ya


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Enigmatic707 said:


> Post a pic here- crop out your face and let's take a look at ya



No way lol.


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## Phoe2006 (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> No way lol.


hell you got a lot of us curious to see what you look like at 5'9" @ 230 lbs especially with these dosages.


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Phoe2006 said:


> hell you got a lot of us curious to see what you look like at 5'9" @ 230 lbs especially with these dosages.



Im 220 now.

And idk if I want it public.
It's Derek's fault for over hyping me.

Ill pm you. 
I dont need to be public in AAS.
just please don't be disrespectful is all I ask.


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## Phoe2006 (Jun 20, 2014)

Its all good brother just curious


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## Enigmatic707 (Jun 20, 2014)

bruiser said:


> Im 220 now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Just blur out your face- I mean do you have your first, last and social security number tatted on your chest?


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## bruiser (Jun 20, 2014)

Enigmatic707 said:


> Just blur out your face- I mean do you have your first, last and social security number tatted on your chest?



When you this swole It might as well be.
joking, but naw ill be private


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## bruiser (Jun 24, 2014)

I think I'm gonna go with higher test. 

There are studies of more lean muscle than nandro.
But I guess im using npp and not the longer.

Im upping npp or test p to a thousand but I still dont know which would be the better option for lbm gains


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## humpthebobcat (Jun 24, 2014)

don't forget to up the protien calories too!


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