# Concreteguy Here!



## Concreteguy (Jul 6, 2017)

Hey guys, I'm going to be spending a little more time on this side of the tracks "Anasci" and I thought I would open it up with this.

Yes your in the anabolics forum talking about anabolics. But I'm here to tell you ALLLLLLLLLL  IF YOU WANT TO GROW. "Gear means shit". Phama or UGL what ever you take in any amounts you take it, no matter who tells you and how much of an expert they are................................................................................................................................................................................................................IF YOUR NOT IN A CALORIC SURPLUS. <----Maybe some of you guys should read that a couple more times. You need to eat and eat big. A surplus means, Consuming more calories than  your body is regularly burning in the cores of a day. This includes working activities and going to the gym, washing the car, moving the lawn.........everything. You absolutely MUST have extra calories to grow on.
 Now because I'm an old goat thats been around the horn and back I know what and how to eat. Lets have a quality thread about the best growth you guys have had and what your diet looked like when you were growing like a weed. How about it? Lets get started.

 My best run was
-6 scrambled eggs, 4 slices of toast, 2 servings of flavored Oats
and 20 iu Humalog
-2 Hamburger patties, 2 cups of rice and a large glass of OJ and 20 iu Humalog
-1 quart of cottage cheese, 3 servings of romaine noodles 20 iu Humalog
-2 MCD 1/4 lbers L-fries chocolate shake 20 iu Humalog
- Huge bowl of Rice Crispies but in place of the milk I used egg whites flavored with vanilla protein powder. And 20 iu Humalog

I gained 15 lbs in about two months doing this and still had a six pack. Not stage ready but beach ready all day long. As I did this my lifts all went up and I developed a few stretch marks. My lifts were all primary's doing a hit program. BTW: all I used to keep fat gains under control was morning cardio(stepper) and MK677 30mgs. 

Take notice: I didn't mention gear. This isn't about gear. I mentioned insulin because it directly shovels nutrient and the MK because it directly helps as well. So lets keep this from becoming another fucked up " I take this much" thread. You have to eat to make ANY gear work. That's what this thread is about. Eating and hammering it in. BAM!!!!!!!! 

Now lets here it guys, this could be one of those monster threads that everyone refers to for ideas. LETS GO!!!!!!

  CG


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## IRONFIST (Jul 6, 2017)

thats a great post cg! this has been my philosophy since getting back to things the past few years. eat, eat, train, train, minimal drugs and grow!!

i have tried insulin a couple times now but cant seem to get the timing down. when i feel ok one minute, i feel like im going to drop the next. had to eat my way out of it both times?? 

will be good to see a discussion bloom on this topic.


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## AGGRO (Jul 6, 2017)

I know this thread is geared more towards the caloric intake needed to build muscle but if you don't mind me asking concreteguy what did your training split look like during that run? Thanks in advance. Sorry for the off topic question.


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## Concreteguy (Jul 6, 2017)

The Split:
- Chest, shoulders, traps, tris
-deads, back, bis
- entire legs


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## AGGRO (Jul 6, 2017)

Thanks.


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## K1 (Jul 6, 2017)

I know you want to keep this on the food aspect like Aggro mentioned but the slin played a huge part in your run up there CG:

I know Big A has always said that slin will morph you into a new you if you do it right, and that he would slam down 4 Big Macs after his slin dose and would just watch in the mirror as his body would actually change and fill out everywhere while he was eating them...but can't remember where he said his total dose was at per day when he was using it?!

But the saying will always hold true "You have to eat big to grow big!"...Just like you stated in your last comment, the drugs feed off the food first and foremost! Without big amounts of food those drugs are going to do very little. Which is why you always hear guys complaining about the gear being an issue when they eat like birds


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## Concreteguy (Jul 6, 2017)

K1, your 100% correct from beginning to end of your post.

When I posted my gains I knew I had to post about the slin use. Another way to climb quickly would be to use high amounts of caffeine tabs to accelerate your metabolism/Growth. In fact when I did this and started to gain a little chub that's what I would do and it not only burned the fat but took it to another level yet. I'm so GD tied of hearing the forum experts saying "you have to run HGH with slin to grow" Pure bullshit.
 As usual BIGA speaks the truth. Like I have to say that.lol  When he said if all things are on point then the more of everything you do the more you grow. Well IMO when it comes to slin it's almost 5X fold. It almost lights things on fire. This is the rule (I) have found works very well fighting fat. Figure the amount of slin needed to off-set the carbs your consuming. Never take more. I would figure approx.. 7 carbs per iu <-----for me.

I would assume without the slin an honest 4 to 5 lbs and still looking very solid. But this is the thing. Once you take a bite from the slin apple, it's hard to eat your ass off every day knowing the magic slin does, and not doing it. In the forum I read guys talking all this anti Christ shit about slin and I just laugh. Walking across the street or pissing off the wrong wife can kill ya too.

ANYONE that says slin isn't without a doubt the single most effective route to gaining real muscle has simply NEVER done it correctly in the amounts needed. Dicking around with 5 to 10 here and there will net the same nominal gains you would expect having just read what I was doing. Believe me the big boyzzz are doing much more. And once they get there they can back off but it still must be part of the fold to stay super human.

 I've gotten way off topic here. I was hoping to draw quality conversation about what guys were eating when shit was clicking for them. These posts you read about this guy and that guy and there PERECT diets isn't the real world. Most are pounding hamburger/rice, chicken/rice, fish/rice. WHY? It's easy guys. Eating is fun but when it's grow time it's work.

 Now were the hell is everyone. lol

  CG


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## squatster (Jul 6, 2017)

Sorry for silly question
In the 2 months- how many meals pr day?
What was the latest meal?
I want to try this out. 
Can I still get away with it at 50


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## Concreteguy (Jul 6, 2017)

Squatster, it's all there in my post friend. Of course you can still do this. In my avatar I was well over fifty. BTW: I'm 57 August.

 But the point of my post was to incite members to list their most successful diets. But if you guys want to talk about this I'm good with it. I'm always up for sharing and helping out. Wish I had someone to shoot me straight when I didn't know where to find my ass. lol


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## K1 (Jul 6, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> These posts you read about this guy and that guy and there PERECT diets isn't the real world. Most are pounding hamburger/rice, chicken/rice, fish/rice. WHY? It's easy guys. Eating is fun but when it's grow time it's work. CG



:yeahthat:This right here man...Not the lifting, not the drugs, it's the diets...Seen more people drop out because of the shit ass diets! Or they followed the nonsense rule of 'Eat ONLY when you're hungry. And eat small amounts!'. Of course you're going to see small gains when eat small amounts of food!

If guys want to have that cross-fit, surfer built...Eat like a bird, move some weights and do some drugs...BUT if you want to be a mass monster, you need to be pounding in the food, as much of it, as often as you can! Then use the drugs to push it where it needs to go to maximize your efforts!


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## squatster (Jul 7, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Squatster, it's all there in my post friend. Of course you can still do this. In my avatar I was well over fifty. BTW: I'm 57 August.
> 
> But the point of my post was to incite members to list their most successful diets. But if you guys want to talk about this I'm good with it. I'm always up for sharing and helping out. Wish I had someone to shoot me straight when I didn't know where to find my ass. lol



I like it man
The food looked like not enough meals but once I count them - its there.
I have the big problem - I go to the gym at 5 am and can't fall a sleep till 12am or 1am.
Also I do construction - so run - run - run
I just can't figure out the food plan.
The slin will be another post?


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## Sully (Jul 7, 2017)

Not to downplay the importance of diet, but this thread really highlights the need for a good discussion on insulin use and protocols here on AnaSci. We haven't delved into it much here, especially in the last few years, and its rarely mentioned around here. Slin is one of the products that I've never used and am almost completely ignorant about, and probably need to do the most research on.


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## Sully (Jul 7, 2017)

And since no one else has done it, I'll run down my diet for bulking. The results are not as impressive as yours though. I've always struggled when it comes to bulking without getting fat, so I generally try to keep my calories to just a little above maintenance and keep carbs under control. 

Breakfast- 6 eggs, 6 egg whites, 1/2 cup salsa
Between meals- 50 grams whey protein w/ 18-20 oz liquid egg whites, small scoop of almond or cashew butter
Lunch- 2-3 chicken thighs, 1 cup jasmine rice, BBQ sauce for the chicken
Between meals- Same protein shake as above
Dinner- 3-4 tilapia fillets, 1 cup jasmine rice or 1 cup sweet potatoes, big mix green salad with vinegar and oil dressing
After training- Same shake as above except without nut butter
Snack (twice a day)- handful of almonds or cashews, 1 can of tuna in olive oil

That was my diet toward the end of my cycle, and I slowly increased my intake up to these amounts. I added about 100-150 calories a week. It was 12 or 16 weeks, can't remember which off the top of my head. Eating the same boring shit so repetitively made me miserable, and really made it hard to get it all down in a day. This was probably the least fat I ever got during a bulk, but I still got fat. 

I've run many more cutting cycles than I ever have bulking cycles, just for that reason. I've had bulking cycles where I gained a lot more weight, but the majority of it was fat.


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## MightyJohn (Jul 7, 2017)

Hey CG...awesome post...what are"romaine noodles"....Ramen?

You are 100% correct...My 2 largest times(235+) I was pounding food, some gh, no slin(stayed relatively lean)...burgers, pound cake(cheat), shakes, 10packs from taco hell etc....an absolute shitload of calories


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## custom creation (Jul 7, 2017)

Hi guys,
  I took an extended vacation, but I'm back and this was the first post I read. It's about the food just as cg stated.
  My first cycle ever, I concentrated on eating tons of food. My pre and post workout was 4 mcchickens each way. I gained over 30 lbs and it wasn't the gear.


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## custom creation (Jul 7, 2017)

Sully,
  What's a cutting diet look like for you with gear?


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## Concreteguy (Jul 7, 2017)

MightyJohn said:


> Hey CG...awesome post...what are"romaine noodles"....Ramen?
> 
> You are 100% correct...My 2 largest times(235+) I was pounding food, some gh, no slin(stayed relatively lean)...burgers, pound cake(cheat), shakes, 10packs from taco hell etc....an absolute shitload of calories



Yes, Ramen.


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## Sully (Jul 7, 2017)

custom creation said:


> Sully,
> What's a cutting diet look like for you with gear?



Ketogenic, mostly. Almost no carbs, increased fats, roughly 150-200 calorie per day deficit, lots of extra cardio.


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## MightyJohn (Jul 8, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Yes, Ramen.



Thanks Bud...awesome diet/post...gives Me some ideas for the winter


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## bg091593 (Jul 8, 2017)

CG was that an everyday thing? Or did you only use the slin on workout days? How long did you run it for and how did you combat any sensitivity issues? You prefer log over R? I've used both but prefer R, however I've never run log at every meal. Will have to try that.


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## MightyJohn (Jul 8, 2017)

Hey CG, what do You think about re-feed days for bulking then full on bulking diet/eating?


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## Concreteguy (Jul 8, 2017)

I did it Monday to Friday, took the weekends off. I also took 1000mgs of metformin a day. that's key to sensitivity. There some "experts" in the forums that would tell you otherwise........lol

CG


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## Concreteguy (Jul 8, 2017)

ATTENTION!!!!!!! There has been 258 views on this thread and ONE (1) guy Sully has actually responded to the question the premise of the entire thread is built upon. Why the hell is this. 
I promise you new guys and the rest that may feel insecure about posting because of possible reticule IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
K1 has already clearly put in print he wont allow that kind of member in here. The only thing is you have to put yourself out there to be heard.

 CG


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## K1 (Jul 8, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> ATTENTION!!!!!!! There has been 258 views on this thread and ONE (1) guy Sully has actually responded to the question the premise of the entire thread is built upon. Why the hell is this.



I think the main issue with your thread is everyone trying to keep it on topic but the main focus that everyone really wants to discuss is the slin usage...Everyone understands that bulking and/or cutting rely on the amount of calories you take in, but most do not know (including myself as I had never dabbled in it enough to fully understand it) how things like slin, metaformin, gh can all contribute to helping you move those massive amounts of calories into the areas they need to be to build quality muscle.


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## gungalunga (Jul 8, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> ATTENTION!!!!!!! There has been 258 views on this thread and ONE (1) guy Sully has actually responded to the question the premise of the entire thread is built upon. Why the hell is this.
> I promise you new guys and the rest that may feel insecure about posting because of possible reticule IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!
> K1 has already clearly put in print he wont allow that kind of member in here. The only thing is you have to put yourself out there to be heard.
> 
> CG



CG.....I really appreciate you starting a thread like this. For me, and maybe for others....because its summer I'm not really focused on bulking up. My successful bulking diets from the past are based on 5 words...."All You Can Eat Buffet". lol. This fall/winter I plan on becoming a lot more focused on a real bulking diet. I may end up hiring Stan Efferding to coach me both on training and diet, and live in Vegas for a while. When I do this, I will have a lot more to contribute to a thread like this. I'm very interested about proper slin usage, and when the time comes I'd like to ask you some questions since you are very well informed on the subject. Maybe you could critique the diet he has me on too. Believe me CG...I think its great to have a guy that knows what he is talking about like you on this board...and when the time comes...I'm sure I will have plenty of questions to ask.


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## Millineum Man (Jul 8, 2017)

This is what worked for me years ago after reading that famous Doggcrap article. I went from 215lbs to 235lbs in 2-3 months with no bodyfat increase. Its like my body soaked up all the calories. I was natural at the time. I still haven't used any gear. At 43, I'm still waiting to take the plunge to the "Darkside". Lol 

Meal 1- 1 cup of oatmeal, 1/2 cup of raisins, 1/4 cup of almonds, and 2 scoops of whey
Meal 2- 3 pb& j sandwiches on wheat bread, 2 scoops of whey in 16-20 oz of milk
Meal 3- 2 tuna sandwiches on wheat, 2 bananas
Meal 4- same as meal 2
Train
Meal 5- 24 oz of grape juice & 2 1/2 scoops of whey
Meal 6- Whatever my wife cooked. Chicken or beef based meal. 

I


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## bg091593 (Jul 8, 2017)

This is what I currently eat and will be applying slin at every meal but last. I have done in the past 15 units R at meals 1 and 3

250g egg whites, 5 whole, 100g dry cream of rice

60g carbs from pasta 8oz chicken w/ tbsp EVOO

60g carbs rice 8oz 93/7 beef

Repeat meal 2

Repeat meal 3

60g whey w/ 100g cream of wheat

300g whites w/ 4 whole eggs 2 TBSp PB

I'm going to take my time this offseason. Finish up around spring of next year. Just realizing I need to be much more lax. Will be eating more cheat meals, as long as I'm hungry. Very excited to see what the future brings.


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## bg091593 (Jul 8, 2017)

I put on almost 30 pounds over 4 months on a diet similar to that. Currently running 500mg test and 6iu GH.... will be ramping up every month. These are my lowest dosages in a LONG time and it was much needed, even though blood work and BP were very good strangely enough. Can't wait to be pounding the food and slinging some real weight this summer!


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## K1 (Jul 8, 2017)

But considering I've posted in this thread a couple times now and have yet to address CG's original point of the post...Here is everything I was running (food/gear) for the only time I actually looked like a "bodybuilder" and not just so dude that hits the weights (points of interest: 5'8" 198lbs (first time in my adult life I'm under 200lbs and besides minimal shape, vascularity and stretchmarks it doesn't look like I've worked out in years...Because I pretty much haven't lol):

I was running the shic cycle Southpaw set up for me:

days01-07 500mg Sust/ed
days08-14 400mg NPP/ed
days15-28 150mg Dbol/ed
days15-28 200mg Mast Prop/eod
days01-28 1mg Propecia/ed
days01-28 1mg Arimidex/ed
days01-28 20mg Nolva/ed
days01-28 25mcg Cytomel (T3)/ed
days01-28 30iu/ed HGH (Hyges)
days01-28 4ml/ed Synthergine
days01-28 Syntherol (bis and tris ramping up)

Worked in distribution (shipping manager)...Hours 6am - 6pm Mon-Fri (Sat 6am - 1pm)...Would be in work by 5:30am everyday the latest (would have a full gym bag just for my work meals):

05:30am - 1c oatmeal, 6 eggs, 24oz water, 2 scoops Synthepure (SP)
07:00am - 0.5lb turkey breast (on 2 pitas - lettuce/tomato, cheese), 1 apple, 24oz water, 2 scoops SP
09:00am - 0.5lb turkey breast (on 2 pitas - lettuce/tomato, cheese), 1 banana, 1/4c almonds, 24oz water, 2 scoops SP.
11:30am - 9oz chicken breast, 1/2c brown rice, greenbeans, 24oz water, 2 scoops SP
02:00pm - 1/4c almonds, 1/2c greenbeans, 24oz water, 2 scoops SP.
04:00pm - 24oz water, 2 scoops SP
07:00pm - 9oz chicken breast, 1/2c brown rice, greenbeans, 24oz water, 2 scoops SP
10:00pm - shake (2 tbsp peanut butter, 2 scoops SP, 1 banana, 1c fat free, skim milk)
12:00am - Whatever I shoved in my mouth before my wife yelled at me

I put on just above 25lbs (everyone saw the difference and could not tell one person that I was not juicing even if I really cared, because you'd be stupid not to know - went from 210lbs to 235lbs)...Dropped about 7lbs (water/excess fat) with full abs and major vascularity being the end results. Like I said, the only time I ever actually looked like a "bodybuilder" and not a guy that just hits the gym (the usual sheep confuse the two all the time, mistaking a "gymrat" for a "bodybuilder", but we all know the difference)...Looked that way for maybe just over 2 months before life took a turn and the body crashed from the crazy cycle.

MIND YOU: There was no rhyme or reason to my diet...Which makes CG's point - Just slam the food in and let the training and drugs do the work! Keep the fat down as much as you can, the protein high, do your drugs and hit the weights.


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## tenny (Jul 8, 2017)

a few things to keep in mind.....

your caloric needs change.....and often.
your body will adapt to a surplus....in many ways.
you must know when to change foods....amounts and macros.
if you don't, this will result in BODY FAT......
INSULIN only further COMPLICATES all of the above.


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## K1 (Jul 8, 2017)

tenny said:


> a few things to keep in mind.....
> 
> your caloric needs change.....and often.
> your body will adapt to a surplus....in many ways.
> ...



Yeah, that's another thing I've always heard with slin (aside from the fact that you can put your ass in a coma or die from it), that if you don't keep your shit at least a little on point you can end up real fat, real quick and even make yourself a diabetic?!


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## pesty4077 (Jul 8, 2017)

I am 57 too and at this age, I juts want to have a lean chiseled body. So yes. sometimes I eat like a bird. I also have picture perfect blood work at this point too. Now that I said that, when I was younger, I pounded lots of food and lifted extremely heavy weights. I got up to 270 without insulin and around 1000 MG of total gear. Give or take a little from that. I did IGF back then too. We use to go to buffets and eat 3 plates of food. I remember eating pound of steak and feeling hungry about an hour later. Back then, I ate between 5000-7000 calories a day. Protein was over 400. I never counted carbs, just ate a lot. You might get a little fat, but sure as heck you will gain muscle too.


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## tenny (Jul 8, 2017)

K1 said:


> Yeah, that's another thing I've always heard with slin (aside from the fact that you can put your ass in a coma or die from it), that if you don't keep your shit at least a little on point you can end up real fat, real quick and even make yourself a diabetic?!



yes.....this takes MANY years to master....and most of the time
still never get it...

other factors though like a boat load of anabolics, will mask
these down sides with slin...bodyfat...ect...

that's why everyone just "throws more AAS at the problem"

try and try and try again.....you don't get good with something
without failing a SHIT LOAD of times.


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## bg091593 (Jul 8, 2017)

Well are we going to here how you made your best progress tenny or what?


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## tenny (Jul 8, 2017)

pesty4077 said:


> I am 57 too and at this age, I juts want to have a lean chiseled body. So yes. sometimes I eat like a bird. I also have picture perfect blood work at this point too. Now that I said that, when I was younger, I pounded lots of food and lifted extremely heavy weights. I got up to 270 without insulin and around 1000 MG of total gear. Give or take a little from that. I did IGF back then too. We use to go to buffets and eat 3 plates of food. I remember eating pound of steak and feeling hungry about an hour later. Back then, I ate between 5000-7000 calories a day. Protein was over 400. I never counted carbs, just ate a lot. You might get a little fat, but sure as heck you will gain muscle too.



it certainly does come easier for some....not most....

if one is susceptible for gaining body fat....the more difficult it we be.


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## tenny (Jul 8, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> Well are we going to here how you made your best progress tenny or what?



this is just a vague generalization for you guys
to keep in mind while trying different things....


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## b-boy (Jul 8, 2017)

tenny said:


> a few things to keep in mind.....
> 
> your caloric needs change.....and often.
> your body will adapt to a surplus....in many ways.
> ...


 ^^^^ finally someone that gets it.

I will stick with eat when hungry, if you are anabolic you will be hungry, if you are anabolic you will GROW. Stuffing food will just make you fat and think your getting big, getting fatter will put you in a hormonap environment not conductive to muscle building. All you guys probably eat more than john meadows in the offseason but ask your self why none of you carry anywhere near the muscle he does?


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## bg091593 (Jul 8, 2017)

b-boy said:


> ^^^^ finally someone that gets it.
> 
> I will stick with eat when hungry, if you are anabolic you will be hungry, if you are anabolic you will GROW. Stuffing food will just make you fat and think your getting big, getting fatter will put you in a hormonap environment not conductive to muscle building. All you guys probably eat more than john meadows in the offseason but ask your self why none of you carry anywhere near the muscle he does?



Love that your chiming in. Respect your opinion obviously. But John also doesn't grow. And stays well within reach of contest weight.

And are you growing? Have you added over 20 pounds of tissue the last couple years? How about the last year, July of 2016 vs today.

Edit: i don't even know what year it is apparently.


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## b-boy (Jul 8, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> Love that your chiming in. Respect your opinion obviously. But John also doesn't grow. And stays well within reach of contest weight.
> 
> And are you growing? Have you added over 20 pounds of tissue the last couple years? How about the last year, July of 2016 vs today.
> 
> Edit: i don't even know what year it is apparently.


 Lol me and meadows both are 40+ years old and have already a fuck ton of muscle on our frame, it doesn't come easy once you get past a certain point.
But it does come slowly when your smart about it and it's also LEAN MUSCLE TISSUE. I have gone from 207 to 217 in 2 months and I started lean and now I'm way leaner. Moral of story is stay lean and grow leaner, just wish I would have listened to phil hernon years ago.


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## tenny (Jul 8, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> Love that your chiming in. Respect your opinion obviously. But John also doesn't grow. And stays well within reach of contest weight.
> 
> And are you growing? Have you added over 20 pounds of tissue the last couple years? How about the last year, July of 2016 vs today.
> 
> Edit: i don't even know what year it is apparently.



this is relevant to a point......these older guys are not growing
at a rate they did in their 20s....no.

"growing" is also a loose term....

growing is advancing....you don't need to add muscle to grow.
we are talking bodybuilding....not puberty where one gains 30lbs
of stage weight in a year.....are there some that can..??  yes...
99.9% of those are under 30yo.

growing can mean bring up or reshaped body part..better condition
same stage weight....can also mean gaining 8oz a year...
which is nothing to you 20 and 30 somethings....but its growing...
growing in body and mind....learning your body better every year
is GROWING...


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## bg091593 (Jul 8, 2017)

If I gained 8oz in a year I'd be pissed lol. But I see your point. That's why I'll be in my twenties for about 30 more years.


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## thethinker (Jul 8, 2017)

This is a really good discussion. I'll just share my thoughts.

You will only grow muscle at a certain rate, and MORE of anything isn't necessarily better. Now some guys will gain faster than others and stay leaner than others. These guys have to pound calories left and right with a furnace like metabolism. 

Some guys should NEVER take the guns blazing approach to food. 

Genetics will determine your body's ability to assimilate and utilize food as well. Part of the reason why concreter over at pro muscle can fucking drink a gallon of milk a day, and I'll end up looking like the Michelin man on toilet if I did that.  

All of this like Tenny explained in a balance. Enough hormones, enough calories, enough stimulus from training and enough recovery from training. The guys that aren't genetically gifted with impressive physiques will be masters at balancing this pendulum. This more is everything approach will not work for a vast majority of people. They'll back up their digestion eating food their bodies can't utilize and wonder why they aren't growing. Because you AREN'T absorbing half the shit you shove in your mouth. 

I'm not disagreeing with concrete guys  original point that you do need calories for growth, how much is where you gotta have the experience and the knowledge to add the right amount.


Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## IRONFIST (Jul 8, 2017)

i like threads like these. you have some guys going with eating when hungry and others going with eating by time. A good discussion!


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## dnab87 (Jul 9, 2017)

What about running synthetine with your insulin pre/post? Low does dnp to minimze fat gain? GDA's?

Did you ever have digestion issues eating that much food? If so how did you overcome it?


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## heavy hitter (Jul 9, 2017)

My appetite sucks. And I have constant stomach issues from ibs. If I only ate when hungry I'd be 200 pounds. I ate my way up to 264 at my heaviest with lots of slin and a decent amount of gear and bone crushingly heavy weights


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## tenny (Jul 9, 2017)

heavy hitter said:


> My appetite sucks. And I have constant stomach issues from ibs. *If I only ate when hungry I'd be 200 pounds*. I ate my way up to 264 at my heaviest with lots of slin and a decent amount of gear and bone crushingly heavy weights



but maybe you would a 200lb classic physique pro...

:lightbulb:


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## AnaSCI (Jul 9, 2017)

tenny said:


> but maybe you would a 200lb classic physique pro...
> 
> :lightbulb:



:sSig_iagree: This is something I have thought about with regards to the competition side of bodybuilding.

Everyone is always striving to be the mass monsters that we grew up to watching WWF.

How many guys would have fared better within the competition world of the sport if they had taken/eaten (drugs/food) the amounts they actually needed to achieve the best body for their chemistry?


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## thethinker (Jul 9, 2017)

AnaSCI said:


> :sSig_iagree: This is something I have thought about with regards to the competition side of bodybuilding.
> 
> Everyone is always striving to be the mass monsters that we grew up to watching WWF.
> 
> How many guys would have fared better within the competition world of the sport if they had taken/eaten (drugs/food) the amounts they actually needed to achieve the best body for their chemistry?


I think it depends on what "good" is. Branch Warren looked amazing when he was younger and lighter yet did really when heavier, blockier and freakier. According to his "symmetry", he should've stopped the pursuit of size after winning the nationals, but if he did that we wouldn't know who branch Warren is today.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk


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## bg091593 (Jul 9, 2017)

dnab87 said:


> What about running synthetine with your insulin pre/post? Low does dnp to minimze fat gain? GDA's?
> 
> Did you ever have digestion issues eating that much food? If so how did you overcome it?



I can't take metformin, however I can tolerate DNP quite well. I'm going to use it between insulin runs, low dose for a week or two just to sensitize again, I've never tried it but in theory it should work. I would be willing to be CG knows a few tricks about DNP....


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## Sully (Jul 9, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> I can't take metformin, however I can tolerate DNP quite well. I'm going to use it between insulin runs, low dose for a week or two just to sensitize again, I've never tried it but in theory it should work. I would be willing to be CG knows a few tricks about DNP....



Using DNP to increase insulin sensitivity isn't something I remember ever having read about before. Can you explain the mechanism behind how this works? From what I know about DNP, which isn't a whole lot, it would seem to have a completely separate metabolic pathway from insulin. You've really got me curious now.


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## bg091593 (Jul 9, 2017)

Sully said:


> Using DNP to increase insulin sensitivity isn't something I remember ever having read about before. Can you explain the mechanism behind how this works? From what I know about DNP, which isn't a whole lot, it would seem to have a completely separate metabolic pathway from insulin. You've really got me curious now.



Oh crap. Calling me out on the spot lol. Let me do some digging....

I know when ON DNP, it actually raises your BG levels.


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## bg091593 (Jul 9, 2017)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3868721/ 
(Last paragraph has a summarization)

There's a ton of bro-science articles and anecdotal evidence. 

Honestly, I'm not much of a "mechanism" guy. I'm more of a "does it work? Is it safe?" Type of guy.


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## Marvin Martian (Jul 9, 2017)

Insulin always scared me because I am not one of those guys that can just eat anything and always stay lean. Obviously everyone can get fat - but it just seems like the guys who talk about eating a shit ton are dudes that have a fast metabolism. 

I am curious though. Am I wrong? Is there a way for ANYONE to utilize insulin without gaining insane amounts of fat?


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## muj (Jul 9, 2017)

Marvin Martian said:


> Insulin always scared me because I am not one of those guys that can just eat anything and always stay lean. Obviously everyone can get fat - but it just seems like the guys who talk about eating a shit ton are dudes that have a fast metabolism.
> 
> I am curious though. Am I wrong? Is there a way for ANYONE to utilize insulin without gaining insane amounts of fat?



Don't get why so many people freak out about insulin putting on a ton of fat (not having a go, I just see so many people terrified of it). It doesn't just magically turn everything you eat into fat. It will actually allow you to eat more calories, more efficiently since it will shuttle more of what you eat effectively into muscle. 

Adjust your insulin dose to the amount of carbs/calories you REQUIRE and you won't get fat. The problem starts when people try to use too much insulin for their bodies and in turn eat too many carbs. Simple way to look at it, if your diet is making you put on too much fat on insulin than you'll most likely still put on just much if not more without it. It's not the insulin, it's the diet


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## bg091593 (Jul 9, 2017)

Marvin Martian said:


> Insulin always scared me because I am not one of those guys that can just eat anything and always stay lean. Obviously everyone can get fat - but it just seems like the guys who talk about eating a shit ton are dudes that have a fast metabolism.
> 
> I am curious though. Am I wrong? Is there a way for ANYONE to utilize insulin without gaining insane amounts of fat?



Start lean. I used slin at a higher bf and it didn't do shit but make things worse. I've used it after a long dieting phase. Look much better, inflated almost, pumped all day long. 

Just have to ride the fine line of too much food and not enough haha


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## Concreteguy (Jul 9, 2017)

tenny said:


> yes.....this takes MANY years to master....and most of the time
> still never get it...
> 
> *other factors though like a boat load of anabolics, will mask
> ...



Running slin is like 5x the amount of gear. You don't need to boat load gear to cover the offset of fat gain. Go to Ritaid and pick up caffeine tabs and start taking them as needed. I know when there giving me dry mouth it's working. I truly believe that's all the ugl HGH is doing anyway. Phama is a different story. But who the hell can offord it????

  CG

BTW: I' not saying you cant build muscle without slin. Slin wasn't even the point of my post. I just mentioned it to be completely open about how I got my gains. But I will stand behind saying, "there is no more efficient way to gain muscle if done aggressively and properly."

 CG


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## Concreteguy (Jul 9, 2017)

b-boy said:


> ^^^^ finally someone that gets it.
> 
> I will stick with eat when hungry, if you are anabolic you will be hungry, if you are anabolic you will GROW. Stuffing food will just make you fat and think your getting big, getting fatter will put you in a hormonap environment not conductive to muscle building. All you guys probably eat more than john meadows in the offseason but ask your self why none of you carry anywhere near the muscle he does?



Look Brad, how about you post up some pics of when you were 15 years old? I saw them and guess what dude? Because of your genetics you can eat like a jackass and still put on muscle with gear. The rest of the world needs food to make muscle and just eating when your hungry is joke. 

FEED THE DRUGS AND YOU GROW!


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## K1 (Jul 9, 2017)

Topics like this are great when you have varying points of view...I just posted this as a question for the Big A interview...Would like to know what his stance is on whether to eat when hungry or eat mass to build mass.


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## b-boy (Jul 9, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Look Brad, how about you post up some pics of when you were 15 years old? I saw them and guess what dude? Because of your genetics you can eat like a jackass and still put on muscle with gear. The rest of the world needs food to make muscle and just eating when your hungry is joke.
> 
> FEED THE DRUGS AND YOU GROW!


 Lol the only old pick you seen of me I was in my early 20's and just got out of the military and use to run 3 miles daily and lift weights, I wad shredded and I had a great deal of muscle cause I had been lifting weights non stop since I was 13 yrs old. People are always quick to throw out the genetics comment and it makes me laugh my ass off, if I showed everyone a pick of me when I was about 10 years old and showed pics of both my parents I guarantee no one would ever let the word genetics fly out of their mouth when talking about me, both my parents are short and fat and I use to have to buy husky size jeans when I was 10yrs old cause I was short and fat just like my parents, at 13 yrs old I decided I wanted to play football and be a running back (I was very fast for how short and thick I was) and my coach told me I needed to muscle up and loose some chub and then I became a possessed kid as I truly wanted to be a running back so I begged my mother to buy me some weights and a bench and the rest is history. I look the way I do because I have been forged by iron since age 13 genetics have zero to do with it as that actually was working against me.


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## Sully (Jul 9, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3868721/
> (Last paragraph has a summarization)
> 
> There's a ton of bro-science articles and anecdotal evidence.
> ...



Well, I'm a science guy. And that's good science, right there. Very interesting; thanx for linking to it.


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## K1 (Jul 9, 2017)

Ok, so again the topic will go back to the "drugs"...Can't be helped because obviously with both points of view that's pretty much the only agreeing factor...I may be off on what I've taken from the post so correct me if I am (maybe I'm just high today...Been out in the sun too long this week lol):



b-boy said:


> I will stick with eat when hungry, if you are anabolic you will be hungry, if you are anabolic you will GROW. Stuffing food will just make you fat and think your getting big, getting fatter will put you in a hormonap environment not conductive to muscle building. All you guys probably eat more than john meadows in the offseason but ask your self why none of you carry anywhere near the muscle he does?



So I have to ask B...You're saying that genetics aside, food only when you're in an anabolic state (hungry) and continuing to raise the drugs as needed, that is how to grow.

Although I can't see how you can continue to grow over time (even with upping the drugs), without upping the food?! I mean are you just upping the amounts per meal or are you just disagreeing with CG's point of using shit like fastfood to hammer in massive amounts of calories and then using the slin to push it everywhere quickly before it metabolizes to fat?!



Concreteguy said:


> Look Brad, how about you post up some pics of when you were 15 years old? I saw them and guess what dude? Because of your genetics you can eat like a jackass and still put on muscle with gear. The rest of the world needs food to make muscle and just eating when your hungry is joke.
> 
> FEED THE DRUGS AND YOU GROW!



And you CG...You're saying that to grow, you need to keep the food and drugs heavy...You're not going to grow if there aren't constants of both.


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## b-boy (Jul 9, 2017)

K1 said:


> Ok, so again the topic will go back to the "drugs"...Can't be helped because obviously with both points of view that's pretty much the only agreeing factor...I may be off on what I've taken from the post so correct me if I am (maybe I'm just high today...Been out in the sun too long this week lol):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 im saying only eat when you are hungry, to not eat by the clock and do not eat when you are not truly hungry, your body will tell you when you definetly need to eat, if you are anabolic then the hunger signal will be stronger and more frequent you eat and you grow, when there is no anabolic signal and you just eat every 3 hours trying to put on scale weight then the mass majority of what you are going to be putting on is adipose tissue. every notice how after a really fucking good leg workout you are starving an hour later... THAT IS THE ANABOLIC SIGNAL, ever notice how you are hungrier when you are on tren...THAT IS THE ANABOLIC SIGNAL, ever go to bed early and have a nice long sleep (10+ hours, that your body has had to repair and grow) you wake up starving...THAT IS THE ANABOLIC SIGNAL, you eat when you have the signal to eat, if you are just randomly forcing food down your fat fucking throat you not fucking big your just a fat bastard.  :action-smiley-030:


some days I might eat 2500 calories, some days I might eat 5500. it all depends on the hunger signal (anabolic or not)


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## b-boy (Jul 9, 2017)

things I do to get bigger

1. tear the most amount of muscle tissue in the least amount of time when I am in the gym
2. sleep as much as I possibly can and also skip breakfast
3. stay on a low dose of GH
4. keep a satisfactory hormone environment
5. ketogenic diet keeping me in a fat burning mode and less in a fat storing mode
all these lead to inceased hunger especially through the recovery mode of muscle building and repair


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## Mrhat40 (Jul 9, 2017)

b-boy said:


> things I do to get bigger
> 
> 1. tear the most amount of muscle tissue in the least amount of time when I am in the gym
> 2. sleep as much as I possibly can and also skip breakfast
> ...


What about the critical window (20 minutes to 2hr) after training? 
I've never knew if this is true or false. And what about eating a Hershey chocolate bar after training, just before you eat for the critical window, to spike insulin? All true or false?


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## K1 (Jul 9, 2017)

b-boy said:


> im saying only eat when you are hungry, to not eat by the clock and do not eat when you are not truly hungry, your body will tell you when you definetly need to eat, if you are anabolic then the hunger signal will be stronger and more frequent you eat and you grow, when there is no anabolic signal and you just eat every 3 hours trying to put on scale weight then the mass majority of what you are going to be putting on is adipose tissue. every notice how after a really fucking good leg workout you are starving an hour later... THAT IS THE ANABOLIC SIGNAL, ever notice how you are hungrier when you are on tren...THAT IS THE ANABOLIC SIGNAL, ever go to bed early and have a nice long sleep (10+ hours, that your body has had to repair and grow) you wake up starving...THAT IS THE ANABOLIC SIGNAL, you eat when you have the signal to eat, if you are just randomly forcing food down your fat fucking throat you not fucking big your just a fat bastard.  :action-smiley-030:
> 
> 
> some days I might eat 2500 calories, some days I might eat 5500. it all depends on the hunger signal (anabolic or not)





b-boy said:


> things I do to get bigger
> 
> 1. tear the most amount of muscle tissue in the least amount of time when I am in the gym
> 2. sleep as much as I possibly can and also skip breakfast
> ...



Gotcha...Make sense now. 

Intake varies from day-to-day, depending on the need...It's not trying to use more drugs to offset the lower amount of calories.


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## Concreteguy (Jul 9, 2017)

b-boy said:


> Lol the only old pick you seen of me I was in my early 20's and just got out of the military and use to run 3 miles daily and lift weights, I wad shredded and I had a great deal of muscle cause I had been lifting weights non stop since I was 13 yrs old. People are always quick to throw out the genetics comment and it makes me laugh my ass off, if I showed everyone a pick of me when I was about 10 years old and showed pics of both my parents I guarantee no one would ever let the word genetics fly out of their mouth when talking about me, both my parents are short and fat and I use to have to buy husky size jeans when I was 10yrs old cause I was short and fat just like my parents, at 13 yrs old I decided I wanted to play football and be a running back (I was very fast for how short and thick I was) and my coach told me I needed to muscle up and loose some chub and then I became a possessed kid as I truly wanted to be a running back so I begged my mother to buy me some weights and a bench and the rest is history. I look the way I do because I have been forged by iron since age 13 genetics have zero to do with it as that actually was working against me.



No Brad. You have great genetics coupled with being short. On top of all of that THE Superman Blk gean. Not all Blks have it but when it's there its undeniable. Had my ass kicked at the Nats too many times by it to not know it when I see it. Game, set and match. And don't even go there, some of my best friends at the gym are blacks.  There is NO better combination. The "clean pics you put up as a kid was ridiculous. Better than 90% of the forum ON gear. Look at Leveron after his early pro career. Guy looked skinny fat with no muscles at all. It was literally hard to believe he was the same guy. P Dittet is another example. And it was the combination of your two parents that made you Brad. The sweet spot is to be found in there some where. 
 Don't make me dig up ALLLLLLLLL the times I quote Brad saying "I have to thank my Mom and Dad for giving me my genetics" Dude you said that in open forum more times than I have fingers and toes.

I.M.O. honestly, you could be pinning Coolaid, taking Gummy Bears for orals and training on an elliptical, doing pushups and look better than 98% of this forum hands down. My point isn't to discredit you or say it came easy to you. My point is what works for you just isn't going to apply to the other 98% of us normal humans.
I don't doubt your just eating when your hungry.lol Hearing that is like sault in a wound. But its not the real world.

 BTW: I never told you "Good job on your card!" Well deserved.

  CG


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## tenny (Jul 9, 2017)

the bottom line is...

everything STOPS working at some point...

and that's when you need another approach,
that's when one needs to look at things from
another angle....attack things a different way...

if somethings working for you....then hell ya...do it up..
but when it stops....what will the excuses be...???

when it is working, we never stop to think "how long is this
going to last??"...lol, maybe some of us do.....

I also have a problem with people that don't try hard or long
enough for something new to actually work...they are so 
brainwashed into what they WERE doing and how well THAT worked
that they simply CANNOT open their mind to explore something else..


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## Concreteguy (Jul 9, 2017)

K1 said:


> Ok, so again the topic will go back to the "drugs"...Can't be helped because obviously with both points of view that's pretty much the only agreeing factor...I may be off on what I've taken from the post so correct me if I am (maybe I'm just high today...Been out in the sun too long this week lol):
> 
> And you CG...You're saying that to grow, you need to keep the food and drugs heavy...You're not going to grow if there aren't constants of both.



I have never said or implied you need to keep the drugs high. You need to have carefully tracked your gear use and know what amounts are required for you to grow. Your never going backwards if your seriously trying to grow.  And sitting around wondering "if" your hungry and then when you decide you are and head to the kitchen, at what point do you call it a 2500 calorie day or go on to the 5000? If your going to base the decision on weather it was a training day or not it's starting to sound like a controlled diet. Say you train at 3pm when you get home from the gym? OK well them after you train is that when you get all this sudden anabolic hunger? so you eat like an un-anabolic bird going into the gym and them gorge yourself for the next six hours till bed? lol Common man. This at the very best will compromise your growth and that's if your an IFBB pro like Brad. If your not absolutely in touch with your hunger senses and modify it before training regardless of your hunger it's crazy.

 Look, every buddy come back down to plant Earth and return to how you get big. IT takes big calories to properly drive nutrient. ALL gear does it drive nutrients. Maintain your gear use to only whats necessary to grow and optimize your diet to the absolute limit you can take in with out getting fat.

OR PLAN ....B    I'm not here to make anyone happy.

 You can always opt for the accelerated growth plan witch is over eating to a point that would gain opprox 4lbs a week and take it back off at the same time with clen,T-3 and caffeine tabs.


You know, I gotta laugh when I hear this "eat when your hungry" shit. And this isn't a shot at Brad. I never told you guys but this, But it's the Gods honest truth. Phil Hernon prepped me for the Mr Pa that I handedly won. He had me eating meal after meal of Chicken and broccoli. I would wash it down with just about all the test no ester and D-bol I could stand. The food was on a schedule.  Breakfast to dinner it was chicken and broccoli. When I bitched he would laugh and ask me how bad I wanted to win? Long story short: I looked about as good as this guy has ever looked. But I was also pissing blood.


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## Massthetics (Jul 9, 2017)

I've tried both with the same amount of gear (no slin or growth) and put on close to 15lbs each time with barely any fat gain. 
Ive always been relatively skinny and lanky which is why I'm assuming it's difficult for me to put on size. 
With the force feeding I went from 188 to 204 in just under 3 months. Took a break for 2 months and then tried eating only when hungry. Went from 202 to 216, eating the cleanest I ever have, but it took me just over 6 months...
I may have added fat the first time and over that 6 month course I may have burned alot of it, I don't exactly know. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


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## squatster (Jul 9, 2017)

B boy- great to see you here- you look incredible in the pics man- you know I am a big fan brotha.
Not trying to ay any one is wrong.
Sorry - I agree with Concreteguy- you need to eat your meals.
I my self hardly ever get hungry- i can go most of the day with out getting hungry.
I would have no muscle.
It may work great for some but not many.
I really don't agree with slop food either.
I do my best gains at 80grams pr meal of protien with no more then 3 hours inbetween- mostly foods- I tend to keep my carbs high also.
Just my 2 cents


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## tenny (Jul 9, 2017)

squatster said:


> B boy- great to see you here- you look incredible in the pics man- you know I am a big fan brotha.
> Not trying to ay any one is wrong.
> Sorry - I agree with Concreteguy- you need to eat your meals.
> I my self hardly ever get hungry- i can go most of the day with out getting hungry.
> ...



imagine if you were hungry for all those meals....???

wonder what the difference would be......


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## bg091593 (Jul 9, 2017)

tenny said:


> the bottom line is...
> 
> everything STOPS working at some point...
> 
> ...



So in your opinion, with a long background and now coaching, how long is long enough to see results? In an offseason I'm speaking. I take pics every Saturday morning. I wake up, take a leak, get my weight, and take pics of my FDB and BDB. I have pics of EVERY week all the way back to first week in November of '16. Obviously pictures will tell the biggest story, but what other markers do you use, and when does the trigger get pulled that says "time to eat more, pin more, etc".... always track my lifts as well. THATS what I use as my number one tool, if I'm getting stronger and progressing in the gym, how can I NOT be progressing as a bb'er? 

Long story short, when do you say "ok eat more"?

And this question goes out to everyone reading, let's get some opinions out there. And what do you increase first? Gear? Food? Insulin? Myself, my gear goes up a few hundred mgs every four weeks, with the last four weeks of my cycle being barely above my all time high. Ill add food if one of two things don't happen, 1.) my lifts aren't going up. They have to be completely stagnant. An extra rep or even a 2.5 on each side increase is good enough for me. Or 2.) my weight has stayed the same or even regressed over the last two weeks.


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## b-boy (Jul 9, 2017)

tenny said:


> imagine if you were hungry for all those meals....???
> 
> wonder what the difference would be......


 its frustrating they don't get it tenny. You not being hungry is whats holding you back from being fucking huge, force feeding yourself every 3 hours is shitting in the win, you must face the anabolic problem and you will see that eating thousands upon thousands of calories isn't a fucking problem, I have to actually hold myself back as I don't ever want to compete in the open class, plus I put fat on very easily, so I even pull back on the leash every so often out of fear. when you are tearing a fuck ton of muscle fibers and the hormonal environment is there for both growth and recovery then you will be fucking hungry as thats the fuel for the process.


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## bg091593 (Jul 9, 2017)

b-boy said:


> its frustrating they don't get it tenny. You not being hungry is whats holding you back from being fucking huge, force feeding yourself every 3 hours is shitting in the win, you must face the anabolic problem and you will see that eating thousands upon thousands of calories isn't a fucking problem, I have to actually hold myself back as I don't ever want to compete in the open class, plus I put fat on very easily, so I even pull back on the leash every so often out of fear. when you are tearing a fuck ton of muscle fibers and the hormonal environment is there for both growth and recovery then you will be fucking hungry as thats the fuel for the process.



I think a lot of it comes down to training hard too. If I do a bunch of pump sets, I'm really not too hungry. But if I do legs and grind out squats to the point of puking, I can eat a house after, then eat again an hour after, and again and again etc even the following day I'm hungry all day!

The question isn't "why are you eating when not hungry?" But rather "why aren't you hungry?"


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## b-boy (Jul 9, 2017)

Stay anabolic, stay hungry.

Last night at the gym, trained hard as fuck to complete failure, did 30 min of ass kicking cardio and was fucking starving to death when I got home, I could have eaten the paint off the walls


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## b-boy (Jul 10, 2017)

concrete guy.... bravo as this is actually a good fucking thread!!!


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## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> So in your opinion, with a long background and now coaching, how long is long enough to see results? In an offseason I'm speaking. I take pics every Saturday morning. I wake up, take a leak, get my weight, and take pics of my FDB and BDB. I have pics of EVERY week all the way back to first week in November of '16. Obviously pictures will tell the biggest story, but what other markers do you use, and when does the trigger get pulled that says "time to eat more, pin more, etc".... always track my lifts as well. THATS what I use as my number one tool, if I'm getting stronger and progressing in the gym, how can I NOT be progressing as a bb'er?
> 
> Long story short, when do you say "ok eat more"?
> 
> And this question goes out to everyone reading, let's get some opinions out there. And what do you increase first? Gear? Food? Insulin? Myself, my gear goes up a few hundred mgs every four weeks, with the last four weeks of my cycle being barely above my all time high. Ill add food if one of two things don't happen, 1.) my lifts aren't going up. They have to be completely stagnant. An extra rep or even a 2.5 on each side increase is good enough for me. Or 2.) my weight has stayed the same or even regressed over the last two weeks.




one MAJOR thing you didn't mention....

how do you feel..???

this is the first question I ask everyone..
first and foremost


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## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

b-boy said:


> its frustrating they don't get it tenny. You not being hungry is whats holding you back from being fucking huge, force feeding yourself every 3 hours is shitting in the win, you must face the anabolic problem and you will see that eating thousands upon thousands of calories isn't a fucking problem, I have to actually hold myself back as I don't ever want to compete in the open class, plus I put fat on very easily, so I even pull back on the leash every so often out of fear. when you are tearing a fuck ton of muscle fibers and the hormonal environment is there for both growth and recovery then you will be fucking hungry as thats the fuel for the process.



exactly right...

the other thing I ask people is....

how many shits a day...???

when I hear 3 and 4....I LOL  you are not anabolic what so ever...

ONE SHIT a day....that's it....if you are doing more than that...
you are wasting money on food.....literally RIGHT DOWN THE 
FUCKING TOILET


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## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

I eat when hungry....always have..
sometimes only 2 meals....sometimes 4...
IVE NEVER FORCE FEED ANYTHING....EVER....

I'm not MR.O......but at 40+ I can hang..


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## slide (Jul 10, 2017)

This has a been a good thread thus far and definitely appreciate some other points for people to consider when trying to make improvements. I always eat every 3-4 hours (when I was younger it was more like 2-3 hours), so, it's interesting to hear the 'eat when hungry' perspective--now, I know I heard that before (Hernon?)...but never implemented it...and candidly, still don't really know what that means. 

So, for those conditioned to eat every 3 hours, what does it mean to 'eat when (really) hungry'? I guess that's a pretty elementary question, but, when it comes to learning something new--I'd be interested in actually understanding what physically you would feel (growling/headaches/etc???).

And then, once you understand that, how much are you eating during that (one) sitting? I see the calories can be vastly different depending on the day as well and how much you are 'hungry.' 

Fascinating discussion, seriously. But, as I get older, I really want to focus more on 'getting better', but really, staying leaner and obviously, healthier. 

Thanks again for the discussion....

-s


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## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

Look, Anasci is full of some what new lifters. These guys aren't going to get/understand "eating when your hungry. Telling them if they shit more than once a day their wasting money is fucking ridiculous. The faster you process food the faster you grow. Shelby had me taking laxatives just to keep me shitting while we where bulking. Just saying this stuff simply doesn't make it so. Why in the world are you two pounding this. Noone else does this guys. It's ridiculous. If your hard core building muscle.


  CG


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## K1 (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Shelby had me taking laxatives just to keep me shitting while we where bulking.



:yeahthat: This would be why guys use pgcl.


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## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Look, Anasci is full of some what new lifters. These guys aren't going to get/understand "eating when your hungry. Telling them if they shit more than once a day their wasting money is fucking ridiculous. The faster you process food the faster you grow. Shelby had me taking laxatives just to keep me shitting while we where bulking. Just saying this stuff simply doesn't make it so. Why in the world are you two pounding this. Noone else does this guys. It's ridiculous. If your hard core building muscle.
> 
> 
> CG




what your not understanding is......eat to STAY HUNGRY....:lightbulb:

smaller meals...the right foods....the right amounts and one could
eat 6 or 7 meals and be hungry for every one of them....

20s and 30s.....I stayed hungry....no matter what I ate....
now, not so much the case.....cant eat like that not more...
forcing food is not good for your organs.....


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## squatster (Jul 10, 2017)

I've been lifting for 34 years now - I have always been like a seagull- put food in my mouth and I need to shit
B boy - great pic brotha


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## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

squatster said:


> I've been lifting for 34 years now - I have always been like a seagull- put food in my mouth and I need to shit
> B boy - great pic brotha



ever try to figure out why...???

that's not normal..


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## squatster (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> what your not understanding is......eat to STAY HUNGRY....:lightbulb:
> 
> smaller meals...the right foods....the right amounts and one could
> eat 6 or 7 meals and be hungry for every one of them....
> ...


When you put it like this it all starts to make sense. 
But with most forums you need to put it in black and white- most clients - or people following all this need it written out like you just did.
I my self have been lost till now on eat when hungry
Glad you wrote this man


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

Maybe I'm missing the message as B-Boy says. Please explain why you wouldn't FEED the totally devastated body as much the next day. It doesn't need the nutrients?lol  I have trained so hard I had no appetite at all. Did I do something wrong in the gym to not get this anabolic appetite? Hey news flash, go out off shore fishing on my boat some time and watch your ababolic appetite blow through the roof......ROFLaughing.
 But if I did have an appetite after training it becomes an "anabolic appetite" and the food I  eat during this time becomes more nutritional to my cells than any other time consuming the same exact meal? IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY. And without slin your limited on how much food your going to actually use during your gorging's. Why O why does JM have guys eating before they train? They sure as hell have no anabolic appetite then. Why was the most important meal pertaining to training 1-1/2 before training? No anabolic hunger going on then guys. 
 If this was the antidotal facts, after training eating a pizza would be less fattening than eating it the next day lol. If human bodies actually had caloric needs and swing requirements as your describing we would have evolved completely different when it comes to digestion.

 Do the math and except the facts. All slin does is POUND nutrients into you piggy backed on sugar. Slin allows your body to except more nutrients than humanly possible without using it. Slin brought us the new HUGE bodies that rule the stage. Like it or hate it, IT's HUGE AMOUNTS OF MUSCLE that slin alone has brought. 
SLIN + LOTS of FOOD=MUSCLE

Then in your corner your eating when you get hungry.This can and will work but the same can be said about a race car with a governor on the throttle. It can and will work, just not near as well. You guys that can make it work, Great. I would never hope or wish bad on you. I want you guys to get big and win shows and make lots of client. Really I do. Forums are for discussion. That's all this is about. So before we start going to science based prof lets just start listing the REALL IFBB PRO"S, as in the top fifty and how they eat. Do they use slin...............can you see where this is heading?

I know neither of you guys have real world experience using big amounts of slin. I have spoke with you in depth on this subject when you were helping me with my prep Tenny.  If you did you would understand what an anabolic hunger feels like. There is nothing that brings on hunger like slin. More is more when it comes to food and slin.  Now obviously you got big and this is working for you. But why is the gold standard of eating, a controlled diet then? Why are you and Brad right and everyone else is wrong? Why did it work for me and so many others as well as REAL world IFBB pro's, if you guys are right and there all wrong?   

 Guys, I guess you missed my post telling you when Phil is put under real world conditions the "eat when your hungry" shit goes out the fucking window. This was under a prep condition. I can't imagine what the hell is on Phils menu when it's time to grow. lol

 Is this just a huge façade the industry is pulling on the public showing all the pro's preparing their meals and what they eat. I can see Colman or Ronny or ANY well known IFBB pro standing around saying "Ya dude it's as easy as just eating when I get hungry" Seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   " see, I train hard and then get this secrete 'anabolic hunger' and I just start hammering food and grow. But if I'm not training the next day I eat less than half the same amount of food but my body is growing just fine on less than half." " The most important thing I can share with you is (Tell us Dorian?) " if you shit more than once a day your just flushing undigested food down the toilet and wasting your money"    

Go ahead and blow your loads. I can just see the blood pressure building. But I don't give one shit my friends. At some point the rubber meats the road and this is that moment. 

  CG


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Maybe I'm missing the message as B-Boy says. Please explain why you wouldn't FEED the totally devastated body as much the next day. It doesn't need the nutrients?lol  I have trained so hard I had no appetite at all. Did I do something wrong in the gym to not get this anabolic appetite? Hey news flash, go out off shore fishing on my boat some time and watch your ababolic appetite blow through the roof......ROFLaughing.
> But if I did have an appetite after training it becomes an "anabolic appetite" and the food I  eat during this time becomes more nutritional to my cells than any other time consuming the same exact meal? IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY. And without slin your limited on how much food your going to actually use during your gorging's. Why O why does JM have guys eating before they train? They sure as hell have no anabolic appetite then. Why was the most important meal pertaining to training 1-1/2 before training? No anabolic hunger going on then guys.
> If this was the antidotal facts, after training eating a pizza would be less fattening than eating it the next day lol. If human bodies actually had caloric needs and swing requirements as your describing we would have evolved completely different when it comes to digestion.
> 
> ...


CG very much agreed with you on this.Yeah i'm new to this board but by no way new to Bodybuilding.CG glad this came from you at least it'll hold Credit from a Veteran.If I just ate when I was hungry i'd never be able to hold 10-12% bf year round yes on bulk like to stay lean.


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> what your not understanding is......eat to STAY HUNGRY....:lightbulb:
> 
> smaller meals...the right foods....the right amounts and one could
> eat 6 or 7 meals and be hungry for every one of them....
> ...



Please explain why you have to be hungry for any one of them? The five that I listed at the opening of this thread is as good as it has to get to build mass. You want to turn a diet into a technical event fine. It just doesn't have to be all that shit.

Over at PM I listed out "The Bowl Diet" and in a nut shell all it was was a slowly titrating up meal plan that would generate growing hunger. BUT THATS not what the thread is about. It was about putting your best "GROWING diet in print". A titrating meal plan is no big epiphany my friend.

 CG


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

Ragnor said:


> CG very much agreed with you on this.Yeah i'm new to this board but by no way new to Bodybuilding.CG glad this came from you at least it'll hold Credit from a Veteran.If I just ate when I was hungry i'd never be able to hold 10-12% bf year round yes on bulk like to stay lean.



LOL, you had better buckle up my friend. I see dark clouds on the horizon.  

  CG


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## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> LOL, you had better buckle up my friend. I see dark clouds on the horizon.
> 
> CG


Yea well I'm down to Hold my Ground.
[emoji109]


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Maybe I'm missing the message as B-Boy says. Please explain why you wouldn't FEED the totally devastated body as much the next day. It doesn't need the nutrients?lol  I have trained so hard I had no appetite at all. Did I do something wrong in the gym to not get this anabolic appetite? Hey news flash, go out off shore fishing on my boat some time and watch your ababolic appetite blow through the roof......ROFLaughing.
> But if I did have an appetite after training it becomes an "anabolic appetite" and the food I  eat during this time becomes more nutritional to my cells than any other time consuming the same exact meal? IT DOESNT WORK THAT WAY. And without slin your limited on how much food your going to actually use during your gorging's. Why O why does JM have guys eating before they train? They sure as hell have no anabolic appetite then. Why was the most important meal pertaining to training 1-1/2 before training? No anabolic hunger going on then guys.
> If this was the antidotal facts, after training eating a pizza would be less fattening than eating it the next day lol. If human bodies actually had caloric needs and swing requirements as your describing we would have evolved completely different when it comes to digestion.
> 
> ...



I think you are MIND FUCKING your own perception about this whole
thing...

who the fuck said "you are wrong" about anything!!!!!????
how the fuck do you know that these "pros" are or arent hungry!!!!???
and eating when they are....???  so they make meals ahead of time
TO EAT WHEN THEY GET HUNGRY...

why is this shit so hard for you to understand...???

you wanna force feed stuff your face....go ahead....no one cares..
do your thing....post some of your own pics of your force feeding??
anybody else wants to try it....go ahead...see how it works for you..


eating food just for the sake of eating food, "to get big" then taking
laxitives to shit all day is the most retarded thing ive ever heard of...

ever think that for normal humans...this shit takes time..???
LOTS OF TIME.....

again....the key to all this shit IS TO STAY HUNGRY....ALL THE TIME.
when your full..what do you do..??  keep eating???  why...???
eat meals that keep you HUNGRY....but satisfy you anabolic needs...

STAYING HUNGRY IS THE KEY TO ADDING SIZE.....NOT FORCE
FEEDING.....


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

BTW: if that's you in the avatar. WOW.......just wow. You defiantly have no idea what the hell your talking about. 

 CG


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## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

Ragnor said:


> CG very much agreed with you on this.Yeah i'm new to this board but by no way new to Bodybuilding.CG glad this came from you at least it'll hold Credit from a Veteran.*If I just ate when I was hungry i'd never be able to hold 10-12% bf year round yes on bulk like to stay lean*.



how do you know this...???

you've tried it..???


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Please explain why you have to be hungry for any one of them? The five that I listed at the opening of this thread is as good as it has to get to build mass. You want to turn a diet into a technical event fine. It just doesn't have to be all that shit.
> 
> Over at PM I listed out "The Bowl Diet" and in a nut shell all it was was a slowly titrating up meal plan that would generate growing hunger. BUT THATS not what the thread is about. It was about putting your best "GROWING diet in print". A titrating meal plan is no big epiphany my friend.
> 
> CG



I have a meal plan too....

and guess what.....I eat them when I get hungry....lol

this is turning into a 3rd recess discussion now..
chasing tails no one will ever catch...


----------



## bg091593 (Jul 10, 2017)

If using insulin is it ever really force feeding then??? I know a dozen units of log and I'm starving, no matter how long ago I ate.


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## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> I think you are MIND FUCKING your own perception about this whole
> thing...
> 
> who the fuck said "you are wrong" about anything!!!!!????
> ...



 OK Tenny, now I get it. It all makes perfect sense now.

Being hungry is a good thing. All the other points I made are accusations(mind fucking)I just made up. 

Look dude, you jump in my thread with all these criptic posts about this and that. You colure with Brad that the way to go is only eat when hungry and when your called out you blow a fucking rivet and just scream "Staying hungry is key to adding size". Ya but eating a lot of food over five meals isn't just as good or MUCH better for putting on muscle?  So you put down the knife and fork looking at a half of a stake to stay hungry. God forbid you walk away from the table feeling like you fucking ate a full meal. R U SERIOUS with this crap?


  CG


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## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> how do you know this...???
> 
> you've tried it..???


Yes I have ate every time I was hungry not always the most nutritional meals.And I got up to around 330# and was very fluffy.Learned I did not like feeling like that at that size.I've seen your pictures your a good size and very good build.But do you really just eat when hungry all the time and I mean over eat not nutritional.You said you only eat 2-4 times a day also if I read correctly.


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> If using insulin is it ever really force feeding then??? I know a dozen units of log and I'm starving, no matter how long ago I ate.



Look the same thing happened with BIGA's "The truth" post. AS it unrolled a bunch of guys jumped into it and shit all over great info. After the opening post it was best to just click over it from that point on.

How to grow and grow fast is all in your face guys. How about you try it instead of believing crap you read? If it doesn't work then come back and call me out. But if you do try it, please feel free to hit me up for advice. I want to see you achieve your goals as much as you want them.

 Not much good can come from this thread any longer. I can only tell you whats going on it the real world of making muscle and you can measure that against all these experts and there opinions.

 Shit always flies when you don't stand at attention and fall in line. God forbid....... 

  CG


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## K1 (Jul 10, 2017)

By the way it sounds bboy and tenny for the most part they are doing the same thing but it all varies from day-to-day?! But they aren't bound by the restraints of timing and amounts...Train heavy and you'll be hungry all day, off or slow days and just cut it back (which the heavy days make up for).

I mean both ways make sense and there are arguments for both sides of the aisle...I think it all depends on your will power, schedule throughout the day and plenty of other variables...I mean for example:

1) bboy's sleep point - I cannot remember the last time I stayed in bed for 10hrs straight let alone slept for that long...At a given time I am lucky to get 4hrs in tops (even as far back as I can remember when I would pass out from partying too hard). So that recovery time is not there for most depending on work and life schedules...Having to go the heavy food/drugs route is the only way some can make up for that lost recovery period?!

2) CG's mass calories point - Can work if you are disciplined enough with the drugs and training! BUT those two factors have to be on point or you ARE going to get fat, plain in simple! But if you have those two factors in place you are going to put on mass much faster then tenny/bboy's theory!

3) tenny's schedule point - Is also a good idea because is removes those restraints you have by forcing yourself to have to take in the food by the clock...Monday you have an off day, are vegged out with the wife by the pool, not moving yourself that much, there's no need to eat by the clock, because you won't be as hungry and are less active, so best to keep the calories lower...Like bboy said, after a heavy leg day you're going to be eating heavy! Those work days are going to keep your appetite hammered all day long!

Sad thing is you need two guys starting at the same time running it both ways and after a set time both getting weighed and bf checked (also before starting) and see who put on the most "quality" mass in that time frame...But for the most part because of everything from genetics, to life, timing, schedules, sleep, drugs, etc, everything plays a factor in building mass and everyone is different.


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

For Tenny an CG on my normal day to day life I will consume around 5k calories a day for maintenance,now that's how my body works.I train hard 7 days a week.When I want to bulk I increase my calories starting at around. 7K a day and increase by 500 cals a week for growing.But I do eat nutritional and always am hungry.As I posted before to Tenny I force fed un nutritional before and didn't like being that fluffy shit I was lethargic as shit 24/7 had to push through my training.Like K1 noted everyone is different but I strongly agree with CG on this matter but that's my opinion.


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## K1 (Jul 10, 2017)

Ragnor said:


> I was lethargic as shit 24/7 had to push through my training.



This is how I felt during the run I posted...Always felt weighed down and really sluggish...In my case it was probably a combination of everything with that run, it was stupid on all levels but _did_ put on the most _quality_ size I ever had.


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

K1 said:


> This is how I felt during the run I posted...Always felt weighed down and really sluggish...In my case it was probably a combination of everything with that run, it was stupid on all levels but _did_ put on the most _quality_ size I ever had.


Yeah I was consuming 13k easy a day,on 15-20iu gh day,High Test and Deca.Put on great sustainable muscle in that run,was very worth it.Before could never break 287#s then I did that bulk now staying around 300#s lean is normal.I was done on weight due to hernia surgery but climbing my weight back up quickly with staying 9-10% bf.Now my bulks are cleaner I don't regret it at all pushed through a big plateau for me but rather would not have to do again lol.Was miserable at that time.


----------



## Sully (Jul 10, 2017)

slide said:


> This has a been a good thread thus far and definitely appreciate some other points for people to consider when trying to make improvements. I always eat every 3-4 hours (when I was younger it was more like 2-3 hours), so, it's interesting to hear the 'eat when hungry' perspective--now, I know I heard that before (Hernon?)...but never implemented it...and candidly, still don't really know what that means.
> 
> So, for those conditioned to eat every 3 hours, what does it mean to 'eat when (really) hungry'? I guess that's a pretty elementary question, but, when it comes to learning something new--I'd be interested in actually understanding what physically you would feel (growling/headaches/etc???).
> 
> ...



I've always struggled with what hungry means, as well. I've been a fat boy the majority of my life. My body has been conditioned to be constantly hungry, to the point that when I just get a little bit bored my brain says "time to eat!", even if I just ate 30 minutes ago. Am I really hungry then, or is it just a lifetime of operant conditioning kicking in? The fact that I can still feel the food in my stomach says I'm not "hungry", but the rumbling in my gut says I am. Is it true hunger, just a change in blood sugar, or is my brain fucking with me? 

The structure of eating every few hours simplifies things for me. The few times in my life when I've gotten down to 10% BF or lower were always driven by a strict diet with regimented feedings. I know we're primarily discussing growing or bulking here, but my priority has always been losing the fat. I'm not interested in being a mass monster.

I'm certainly not saying that scheduled eating is the only way for anyone to grow or lean down, though. It's just the only I've ever been able to keep myself from getting fat. But, perhaps I've been handicapping myself? Not really sure.


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

Ragnor said:


> Yeah *I was consuming 13k easy *a day,on 15-20iu gh day,High Test and Deca.Put on great sustainable muscle in that run,was very worth it.Before could never break 287#s then I did that bulk now staying around 300#s lean is normal.I was done on weight due to hernia surgery but climbing my weight back up quickly with staying 9-10% bf.Now my bulks are cleaner I don't regret it at all pushed through a big plateau for me but rather would not have to do again lol.Was miserable at that time.



NO.....you were not...


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## K1 (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> NO.....you were not...



The word 'easy' is the last word I would think of to describe eating 10k+ calories every day...Even if it were fast food, ice cream and donuts, putting in that many calories would be the furthest thing from easy:sSig_eeeek::sSic_vomitbuddy:


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> NO.....you were not...


I was eating fast food everyday everymeal so the cals were a around about guesstimate.Was eating 7-10 times a day.I know a triple meat whopper with everything and fries adds up.That's been years since so I think I was pretty close.


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

K1 said:


> The word 'easy' is the last word I would think of to describe eating 10k+ calories every day...Even if it were fast food, ice cream and donuts, putting in that many calories would be the furthest thing from easy:sSig_eeeek::sSic_vomitbuddy:


Miserable and Hell are 2 good words to describe that one lol.My dietitian is Strongman Brian Shaws dietitian also and I can't fathom that 10-12k cals a day on a normal basis for a guy thats over 400#s could even be easy.


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

Ragnor said:


> I was eating fast food everyday everymeal so the cals were a around about guesstimate.Was eating 7-10 times a day.I know a triple meat whopper with everything and fries adds up.That's been years since so I think I was pretty close.



so thats pretty much 100$ a day in fast food......
not to mention probably about 35 to 40 pounds of food

blood work must have took 3 weeks to get back huh..??
must have felt like a million bucks

or wait....let me guess.....blood work was probably perfect right...???


----------



## Sandpig (Jul 10, 2017)

I agree force feeding sucks. Makes me miserable.

 Unfortunately it's the only thing that works for me.


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> so thats pretty much 100$ a day in fast food......
> not to mention probably about 35 to 40 pounds of food
> 
> blood work must have took 3 weeks to get back huh..??
> ...


No Yes No in order.Was young dumber and full of cum so didn't get bloods done.I already said felt like shit all the time and around $100 a day in fast food yeah.But no on the [email protected] up #s of food I didn't weigh my food but No it wasn't 35#s a day.


----------



## frink71 (Jul 10, 2017)

b-boy said:


> things I do to get bigger
> 
> 1. tear the most amount of muscle tissue in the least amount of time when I am in the gym
> all these lead to inceased hunger especially through the recovery mode of muscle building and repair





b-boy said:


> when you are tearing a fuck ton of muscle fibers and the hormonal environment is there for both growth and recovery then you will be fucking hungry as thats the fuel for the process.



I like this focus not just on substrate to fuel the growth, but what TRIGGERS it, training/drugs (yeah I know, no shit)

I notice your focus on tearing down the muscle fibers, but in particular doing the MOST in the LEAST time

Would love to hear your thoughts on What exactly you currently feel is the optimal way to get this done?

Also everyone great thread all round


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

K1 said:


> This is how I felt during the run I posted...Always felt weighed down and really sluggish...In my case it was probably a combination of everything with that run, it was stupid on all levels but _did_ put on the most _quality_ size I ever had.



K1, there is a price to be paid for everything in life. Yes you will feel sluggish and weighed down. Your body will fight you tooth and nail trying to maintain it's "SET" point. That's perfectly normal. But for those very same reasons it takes big changes to make a big difference.

CG, never said anything about being healthy or feeling good while growing. I'm only talking about adding muscle as fast as possible. Cluttering up the thread with "blood panels" and "how you feel" is way off the thread direction. Theres plenty of Healthy, feel good threads. The reason this thread is blowing up is EVERYONE is here to fucking GROW!

and for the record, I truly believe with all my heart the best way to fly is to hire Tenny and be happy, healthy, feel good, get regular blood panels and grow at a much slower pace. Almost none of the guys reading this has a player of being a pro. So why do this to your body. Your body is the only life vessel you will ever have. What I did was to blast mass on my OWN body and not fuck around. I'm retired and have all the time in the world to watch the clock and eat or pin anything I want. I don't care how I feel when I know the end game. That's just me.

K1, in your summery you again noted "lots of drugs to keep from getting fat". You didn't mention the (every morning cardio). The drugs I used are all prep drugs these guys would be using to step on stage any way. I wasn't using abusive amounts.

I'm open to other views and receptive to new approaches. But again, after attempting many times to bring this thread back to " list your best mass building diet". Everyone wanted to talk about using slin. Yourself included. Then when we start talking slin, others come in and talk about an entirely different type of diet approach that has nothing to do with either of the two thread topics. Just KICK THE DOOR IN AND DO IT MY WAY BECAUSE I SAY IT'S BEST.

 I have said about as much as I have to say here. I'm not going to be pursued from forum to forum defending well known basics in body building. I have nothing to prove, I can go do gardening or take up knitting....... 

CG


----------



## K1 (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> K1, in your summery you again noted "lots of drugs to keep from getting fat". You didn't mention the (every morning cardio).



45 min cardio post workout...Everything was done after work ( aside from shots, tabs and food all spread out throughout the day). Tried the cardio first thing in the morning...But between the sleep and work schedule it wasn't working.


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

K1 said:


> 45 min cardio post workout...Everything was done after work ( aside from shots, tabs and food all spread out throughout the day). Tried the cardio first thing in the morning...But between the sleep and work schedule it wasn't working.



Morning fasted cardio is very important. You go all night not eating, when you get the cardio going in the morning you get straight into the shit you want to take off. Then after wards you hammer a big meal and slam slin, witch more than undo's any damage you could have possible done training with little amounts of available nutrients to draw upon. I normally open up my recovery from fasted cardio with pinning 20iu Humalog and a large glass of OJ mixed with 20 grams of Glutamine. Then I cook breakfast.


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

K1, maybe we should be talking about how to effectively bring slin /accelerated growth into the working mans life? Just sayin.......

  CG


----------



## K1 (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> K1, maybe we should be talking about how to effectively bring slin /accelerated growth into the working mans life? Just sayin.......
> 
> CG



Would definitely make for another good discussion...Depending on your schedule throughout the day a lot of the varying ideas on diet, cardio/training and drugs all become issues for the everyday bodybuilder (of course if they are looking to compete and excel in this sport they will find a way to incorporate everything regardless of scheduling conflicts...But for most of us we are just playing in the game lol).


----------



## aon1 (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> K1, there is a price to be paid for everything in life. Yes you will feel sluggish and weighed down. Your body will fight you tooth and nail trying to maintain it's "SET" point. That's perfectly normal. But for those very same reasons it takes big changes to make a big difference.
> 
> CG, never said anything about being healthy or feeling good while growing. I'm only talking about adding muscle as fast as possible. Cluttering up the thread with "blood panels" and "how you feel" is way off the thread direction. Theres plenty of Healthy, feel good threads. The reason this thread is blowing up is EVERYONE is here to fucking GROW!
> 
> ...





Personally I'd like.to see some.of those mass bulking diets that worked also so I can compare to what I'm doing and.maybe find where mine can improve. Im stuck at a little under 260lbs right now and I know it's food but I just don't seem to get it dialed in even though I keep.adjusting , it will happen at some point  but as you were talking I want as much size as quick as possible before I start cutting. I'm not going to be close to stage worthy if you will this run ,well unless I wanted to give up some muscle and really shread down to a way lower weight but that's not my goal, but at some point I will hit a worthy 245lbs one way or another and I'd really like.it.to be as soon as possible before I'm to old lol so if there is some good diets that worked out there I'd still like to see them .....


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> K1, there is a price to be paid for everything in life. Yes you will feel sluggish and weighed down. Your body will fight you tooth and nail trying to maintain it's "SET" point. That's perfectly normal. But for those very same reasons it takes big changes to make a big difference.
> 
> CG, never said anything about being healthy or feeling good while growing. I'm only talking about adding muscle as fast as possible. Cluttering up the thread with "blood panels" and "how you feel" is way off the thread direction. Theres plenty of Healthy, feel good threads. The reason this thread is blowing up is EVERYONE is here to fucking GROW!
> 
> ...





well I know one thing.....it certainly is NOT a race......its not
see who can get the biggest the fastest.....if that's how YOU like
to play the game....then that's how you play....

but those people tend to fizzle out....

you can be the hare.....or the tortoise....

we all know who wins.


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

Hey that all rolls off the tongue well but after reading the first page of the opening post BIGA made in "The Truth" thread it flies in the face of your entire post. R U now saying BIGA is wrong also? To get that big there is no "eat when your hungry". It's slin all the time. If there is slin all the time there is food with it all the time. Is it the correct way to go with none pro clients? Of course not. You keep flip flopping this around. I'm talking about the "pull the trigger and get it done" nothing else. You keep turning this into a whats best for the members thing. These guys can all make up their own minds on whats best for them. File the parental guidance.

  CG


----------



## speeder (Jul 10, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> K1, maybe we should be talking about how to effectively bring slin /accelerated growth into the working mans life? Just sayin.......
> 
> CG



this would be a great topic


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

nothings being "flip flopping" around on shit....

here ill say it again..

(put on reading glasses now)

IF YOU (AND BIG A) WANT TO PLAY THE GAME THAT WAY.....
THEN PLAY YOUR GAME THAT WAY....

doesn't mean its the right way....doesn't mean its the wrong way...
I guess its just YOUR WAY..

your so tight assed you don't even know the point 
you are trying to making....if someone don't see your way
then its the wrong way...

LOL, and no ones even fucking disagreeing with you!!!!!!
is the sad part..


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

force feeding and slin destroyed this guys physique...
he wanted too much....too fast
and he got it...

beware guys....


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

he had TONS of potential...
and never got on stage again...

wont happen to everyone....but it happens


----------



## K1 (Jul 10, 2017)

Doesn't even look close to the same guy in those two pics:sSig_eeeek:


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

K1 said:


> Doesn't even look close to the same guy in those two pics:sSig_eeeek:



I think he did try to get back on stage....and looked
so bad in the line up....he just walked off the stage...

never got back up there


----------



## Elvia1023 (Jul 10, 2017)

I don't understand why some guys don't get the whole eat when hungry thing. If you are in an anabolic state you should be hungry all the time so it's not about eating like a bird. It's about trying to be in that anabolic state all day and that can be helped by many things (cardio, training, drugs, macros, food choices etc). 

You obviously need calories to grow but overfeeding just gets you fatter. I have a much larger waist than I could have from overfeeding over the years. I guess it comes down to your exact goals. With the right knowledge you can make your body like a machine almost so it processes everything quickly and effectively but you really need to know what foods suit you best for that to happen. 

Too many guys just throw calories at things thinking they will grow. That is true and personally I don't mind getting bulky but for most it's not the best way to go about things. Now if you are young and tall and skinny and walk around at 7% all year then sure throw food at things. For most it just leads to unnessary fat gain and bloated guts. Sure if you add in 200mg tren a per day and slin and a fatburner (caffeine, dnp, eca, clen etc) it will mask things and will still obviously work if someone wants to do that.

I don't want people to think I am against the thread outline of eating big to get big as that is common sense. I just don't think people need to throw as many calories from random foods as they think. Plus trust me I bet I have consumed more calories than most over the years being a natural tall skinny kid. Some of the mass monsters only eat approx 4000 calories per day... yes genetics but it shows a lot. Guys should be looking at ways to improve the utilization of the calories you consume rather than just constantly adding to them :lightbulb:

However if I was helping someone get as big as possible things would be more structured than "eat when hungry". Although the body should never really go by the clock and you need to listen to your own body but there does have to be a degree of force feeding for ultimate size gains (size can be defined as many things though).The body doesn't want to be 300 pounds of muscle... far from it... you need to force it to get to that stage. This is like Tenny posted earlier about the whole get big as fast as possible which is not a good thing. But sure if you want to be as big as fast as possible some forcing needs to be done. I would pick foods you digest quickly and eat regularly. But for best results start lower and build up slowly in every regard (macros, food volume, drugs etc).

My goals are totally different now and are more a classic physique type of look. I want to look freaky but want to be healthy too. I have a big frame (6ft 2) so I will never look small next to others even if I lose a bit of size. But over the next few months I plan to lose size around my waist and gain it in the right ones


----------



## tenny (Jul 10, 2017)

Elvia NO.....are you disagreeing with BigA..???


I guarantee I eat more, (eating when I'm hungry)
then the guys on here who eat just to eat....

I guarantee it....


----------



## Elvia1023 (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> Elvia NO.....are you disagreeing with BigA..???
> 
> 
> I guarantee I eat more, (eating when I'm hungry)
> ...



I know as I see pics of your food... big wholesome meals. 4 of those meals are more calories than most on the forums.

I doubt there has been a day in years were I have ate below 2500 calories and that includes when trying to lose bodyfat. I have ate about 3000 calories today and not been the gym or done much as just got back from my holiday. I still have at least 2 meals left in me unless I am not hungry


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> Elvia NO.....are you disagreeing with BigA..???
> 
> 
> I guarantee I eat more, (eating when I'm hungry)
> ...


And I've seen your meals you posted like Elvia did.You eat very nutritional I don't see you eating any processed crap.I can't get into the whole slin issue I've never used insulin.Closest thing I've used to it was a supplement FX 475 and I know that wasn't even that close.


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 10, 2017)

tenny said:


> nothings being "flip flopping" around on shit....
> 
> here ill say it again..
> 
> ...



Tenny, it's always the same shit with you dude. When your pants are around your ankles all you do is start up with the fucking cheep shots. You got nothing to say but eat when your hungry and not one fucking REAL WORLD PRO to back your ass up. So you dig around and post up some poor fool that got it all wrong and try to hang it on taking slin and eating a controlled diet. Pathetic. Dude you will NEVER change my mind or the rest of the industry that gets huge. If this shit works so well why aren't you on stage and MUCH, MUCH larger?????????

  Why are you the guy that always has to be right and EVERYONE else is wrong? Were is all these pro's your making? How about you put up or shut up. You think you going to bully me around with this cheep shot bitch act it aint going to happen. As I said BIGA put it in print. Just fucking read it dude and then STFU!

GO save your clients. The open forum doesn't need saving.

  CG


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

I posted my experience for eating when hungry and I got fluffy as shit looked like crap to me held a ton of water etc.Yeah I was big but not even off season built big,wasn't fat held max 18-20 bf%.I cant just eat when I'm hungry.


----------



## rAJJIN (Jul 10, 2017)

If I Just eat when I am hungry... Can I also just eat whatever I want?

If I have to eat Chicken and Rice cakes... or drink some syrup with baby deer blood IGF then Id be Hungry as hell all the time.

I think people are different. If I only ate when I was hungry that would not work for me. I dont set a clock opr try to hit every 2 hour mark like a robot. BUT I know when I need to eat and I do not like missing meals. Hungry or not.

If I had a young beginner I was trying to get the most out of.... I would not advise him to just eat when he gets hungry.
Id Lay him out a plan, tell him to get some protein powder.
And if I seen him eating like a little bird Id say that shit does not work.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Jul 10, 2017)

Ragnor said:


> I posted my experience for eating when hungry and I got fluffy as shit looked like crap to me held a ton of water etc.Yeah I was big but not even off season built big,wasn't fat held max 18-20 bf%.I cant just eat when I'm hungry.



I don't think you are looking at eating when hungry like Tenny and BBoy are posting about. Obviously an extreme example could be a big fat person (40% bf) may think they are hungry all the time so they will eat when hungry and get really fat. People can have various mental disorders that effect their appetite. Some anorexics might feel they are not hungry but they obviously are. I think this is were people fail to grasp the whole concept as it can be complex. To me a more simple way of looking at things is simply don't overeat or forcefeed. It's no surprise people think eating when hungry are different things as it can be many things. 

Anyway we need to get away from this whole vs debate and understand we all know calories are needed to grow. Some people do things differently but we shouldn't fight about it. I am eating when hungry and have had 6 meals today and staying up another few hours and my last meal will be digested quickly. So we are all doing things very similar ways but perhaps just look at them from a different perspective. We all have different goals now too. If I wanted to grow as much as possible I would be gradually increasing my food and going up to approx 8 meals per day but there is more than 1 way up the mountain.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Jul 10, 2017)

rAJJIN said:


> If I Just eat when I am hungry... Can I also just eat whatever I want?
> 
> If I have to eat Chicken and Rice cakes... or drink some syrup with baby deer blood IGF then Id be Hungry as hell all the time.
> 
> ...



Exactly. Tell some 20 year old who wants to pack on size but is not eating enough to eat when hungry and no surprise he will eat next to nothing. Most guys need to have a plan and it's a great way to stay accountable. If he eats 2 meals I would up to 3, 4, 5 and protein/weightgain shakes are great for your typical undereater. Eating when hungry is best for people who know their bodies and have some experience. Although it's not for everyone even if someone knows his body and is at the highest level. Most people like structure and to follow some sort of plan.


----------



## rAJJIN (Jul 10, 2017)

The same as CG, Until recently I have always worked a very physically demanding job. Maybe days you work 10-12 hours in the 100^ weather.
I think that of course factors in Vs say a mesomorph sitting in an office or doing something that uses little or no fuel.


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 10, 2017)

Elvia1023 said:


> I don't think you are looking at eating when hungry like Tenny and BBoy are posting about. Obviously an extreme example could be a big fat person (40% bf) may think they are hungry all the time so they will eat when hungry and get really fat. People can have various mental disorders that effect their appetite. Some anorexics might feel they are not hungry but they obviously are. I think this is were people fail to grasp the whole concept as it can be complex. To me a more simple way of looking at things is simply don't overeat or forcefeed. It's no surprise people think eating when hungry are different things as it can be many things.
> 
> Anyway we need to get away from this whole vs debate and understand we all know calories are needed to grow. Some people do things differently but we shouldn't fight about it. I am eating when hungry and have had 6 meals today and staying up another few hours and my last meal will be digested quickly. So we are all doing things very similar ways but perhaps just look at them from a different perspective. We all have different goals now too. If I wanted to grow as much as possible I would be gradually increasing my food and going up to approx 8 meals per day but there is more than 1 way up the mountain.


Yeah been rereading this thread I see both the points going on.And it all boils down to growing from either side.Still an interesting thread to see all different approaches that work,like you said everyone is different,our genetics are all different.And I did read it different at first.


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## pesty4077 (Jul 11, 2017)

Not to taking Tenny's side completely, but if I ate just hungry when I felt, I be super skinny. I did one of Tenny's meal plans. At first I wasn't too hungry, then as I was going, I got hungrier and hungrier. Sometimes you have to change your meal approach when trying to be hungrier for growth.


----------



## Sandpig (Jul 11, 2017)

I love this F'n thread 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Marvin Martian (Jul 11, 2017)

I am certainly no expert and realize that I may not seem as credible as others here. I just speak from my experience... I was a pretty good athlete in HS and was one of the more muscular kids. I joined the Corps - and had to run MUCH more than other Marines because I abso-fucking-lutely may have been the most genetically un-gifted runners ever (although I did hit 18:46 on pft at Quantico - digress ) 
So - I looked like a pow - but got out the Corps and wanted to gain muscle. So I was in a pretty hard core gym and I listened to all the dudes telling me to EAT EAT EAT... and I ate until I was 270. Now admittedly I was strong as fuck and had some muscle but I felt like shit and HATED looking that way. So I dieted and did some shows and even won my class (never an overall) 
So - went through a miserable divorce - didn't even step in a gym for 12-13 years and then would start and stop for a couple of years. 
I half-assed did the transformation contest on PM - and really didn't do much of shit toward the end because I had started so fat and figured what the hell 

So we had a major disaster down here and I didn't train for about 9 months but read ALOT and was really intrigued by both intermittent fasting and "eat when hungry". I took pics 5 weeks ago and I am totally shocked that at 45 I made the changes. I will post before and after at the 8 week mark and maybe I will hold a little credibility. 

My understanding of eating when hungry versus just eating is that you let your body dictate when you are anabolic rather than try to force an anabolic environment by eating excess. 
I am 5'8" - started at about 228 and have lost literally 6 inches off my gut and weighed 223 the other night. 

My wife really wants to see me compete again - we weren't together the last time and she is fascinated that my body has changed and honestly just digs muscle has watched many BB shows streaming online. She ALWAYS pics the top 3 and usually in order or close! 

So I know this is a stupid long post but it just seems like maybe what BBoy and Tenny are saying is that if you do the right things - training - rest - supps - you WILL be eating a lot.. now maybe not EVERY DAY - or even ALL day.. but when the muscle needs fuel it will ask for it... 

Then again - maybe I have no clue what they are trying to say.


----------



## Marvin Martian (Jul 11, 2017)

Sandpig said:


> I love this F'n thread
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



I love lamp!!


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 11, 2017)

Tenny, your telling me to put on my reading glasses. lol  How about YOU go back and read my fucking diet I put on 15lbs in 2 months doing. It was to cover 20 iu's of slin 5 times a day. Maybe you should do a little calorie counting and put it up against your diet and then come back and tell me about how I'm gorging myself.  Maybe the rest of you should do the same. 
  All you guys suck each others cocks over at PM and what a surprise it continues over here. To date Tenny has talked shit about the very words that BIGA has put in print and talked shit about the very things Shelby had me doing during a bulk. "Tenny, I can't hear ya over all the noise Shelby's pro card is making buddy". He coaches pro's, where are yours????????????  Maybe it's time to start with the "oldman" shit? Maybe I should be taking a look at the diet you gave Pesty that made him hungry. I remember specifically going in depth with you about the Bowl Diet and what makes it work. BTW: much of this can be found in open forum posts.

  CG


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 11, 2017)

Marvin Martian said:


> I am certainly no expert and realize that I may not seem as credible as others here. I just speak from my experience... I was a pretty good athlete in HS and was one of the more muscular kids. I joined the Corps - and had to run MUCH more than other Marines because I abso-fucking-lutely may have been the most genetically un-gifted runners ever (although I did hit 18:46 on pft at Quantico - digress )
> So - I looked like a pow - but got out the Corps and wanted to gain muscle. So I was in a pretty hard core gym and I listened to all the dudes telling me to EAT EAT EAT... and I ate until I was 270. Now admittedly I was strong as fuck and had some muscle but I felt like shit and HATED looking that way. So I dieted and did some shows and even won my class (never an overall)
> So - went through a miserable divorce - didn't even step in a gym for 12-13 years and then would start and stop for a couple of years.
> I half-assed did the transformation contest on PM - and really didn't do much of shit toward the end because I had started so fat and figured what the hell
> ...



Did I miss the science proving when your hungry your anabolic and eating when your not hungry all turns to fat? Where is the science about shitting more than once a day?

I'm happy you figured out what works best for you not to consume so many calories you just get fat. But eating a control diet that targets a mild calorie surplus will NOT do this. You need to consult with a professional that can plan the proper bulking diet for YOU. Noone else. But if what your doing works for you. Don't get off a good horse.

  CG


----------



## Marvin Martian (Jul 11, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Did I miss the science proving when your hungry your anabolic and eating when your not hungry all turns to fat? Where is the science about shitting more than once a day?
> 
> I'm happy you figured out what works best for you not to consume so many calories you just get fat. But eating a control diet that targets a mild calorie surplus will NOT do this. You need to consult with a professional that can plan the proper bulking diet for YOU. Noone else. But if what your doing works for you. Don't get off a good horse.
> 
> CG




Valid point - as I stated I am far from an expert here... I haven't the slightest clue as to whether science backs up any particular method for all people in general. 
CG - you've obviously built a hell of a physique and what you do works for you... 

I was just saying that maybe the eat when hungry idea gets misunderstood by some guys that aren't really in tune with their body.. 

Really isn't that what it's all about anyway? Understanding your own body. I mean you tell guys about "mind/muscle" connection and there is really no way to explain it. Either you get it or you don't. 

Trust me - I ain't here to argue. I wear myself out arguing with all the fucking voices in my head as it is!!!!


----------



## MightyJohn (Jul 11, 2017)

I love the info I have gotten off this thread...thanks for starting it CG and contributors 

15+yrs on the boards and members will argue about anything instead of just realizing there's many different avenues to getting big


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## K1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Why did I post this...Fuck knows, I just saw it, thought it was funny and was thinking about this dieting conversation making me have a craving for McD fish sandwiches with extra tartar sauce and cheese...So screw you, that's why why:sHa_lolbig2: 


Adele - Hello Parody (Hella Cravings) - YouTube


----------



## Mrhat40 (Jul 11, 2017)

K1 said:


> Why did I post this...Fuck knows, I just saw it, thought it was funny and was thinking about this dieting conversation making me have a craving for McD fish sandwiches with extra tartar sauce and cheese...So screw you, that's why why:sHa_lolbig2:
> 
> Adele - Hello Parody (Hella Cravings) - YouTube


That made me cry.......... 

Mrhat


----------



## Sandpig (Jul 11, 2017)

MightyJohn said:


> I love the info I have gotten off this thread...thanks for starting it CG and contributors
> 
> 15+yrs on the boards and members will argue about anything instead of just realizing there's many different avenues to getting big



I agree. Great info as both sides make valid points.


----------



## pesty4077 (Jul 11, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> Tenny, your telling me to put on my reading glasses. lol  How about YOU go back and read my fucking diet I put on 15lbs in 2 months doing. It was to cover 20 iu's of slin 5 times a day. Maybe you should do a little calorie counting and put it up against your diet and then come back and tell me about how I'm gorging myself.  Maybe the rest of you should do the same.
> All you guys suck each others cocks over at PM and what a surprise it continues over here. To date Tenny has talked shit about the very words that BIGA has put in print and talked shit about the very things Shelby had me doing during a bulk. "Tenny, I can't hear ya over all the noise Shelby's pro card is making buddy". He coaches pro's, where are yours????????????  Maybe it's time to start with the "oldman" shit? Maybe I should be taking a look at the diet you gave Pesty that made him hungry. I remember specifically going in depth with you about the Bowl Diet and what makes it work. BTW: much of this can be found in open forum posts.
> 
> CG



Please don't put me in the middle of your pissing contests. That being said, The diet was nothing special, just eating quality food. Most people are looking for a magical unicorn doesn't doesn't exist.


----------



## formula1069 (Jul 11, 2017)

K1 said:


> Why did I post this...Fuck knows, I just saw it, thought it was funny and was thinking about this dieting conversation making me have a craving for McD fish sandwiches with extra tartar sauce and cheese...So screw you, that's why why:sHa_lolbig2:
> 
> Adele - Hello Parody (Hella Cravings) - YouTube



:sSig_lol3:


----------



## tenny (Jul 11, 2017)

pesty4077 said:


> Please don't put me in the middle of your pissing contests. That being said, The diet was nothing special, just eating quality food. Most people are looking for a magical unicorn doesn't doesn't exist.



exactly....its not about any diet...

just controlling macros....its simple.....

if people want to complicate the LIVING SHIT out of it...
and then think they are doing something special...then go ahead.
lol, no one cares..


----------



## tenny (Jul 11, 2017)

this thread is kinda like.....

"how can we take peanut butter and jelly sandwiches....
and make it look like rocket science????"

oh oh oh....."and if anybody says....'but its only PB and Js dude???"
then they are PM cocksuckers"

someone sounds VERY angry...at what???  I guess only
he knows....because no one else cares.

LMAOOO


----------



## bg091593 (Jul 11, 2017)

Tenny in your competing years, how did you approach the offseason? What did you do during your best and most successful offseason? Successful meaning added the most amount of stage weight.


----------



## tenny (Jul 11, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> Tenny in your competing years, how did you approach the offseason? What did you do during your best and most successful offseason? Successful meaning added the most amount of stage weight.



I just kept banging along....I didn't care how much I weighed
or how much stage weight I was putting on....the mirror was my
tool...

of course I wanted and needed to be bigger...
but the trade off for it wasn't a good trade for me....and was happy
with the size I had....theres no special potion...you take more shit
you get bigger, simple...I was never willing to take more shit...
thing is.....now I can take 200mgs a week and maintain that size.


least I weighed on stage was 206.
most I weighed on stage 224...

I trained heavy with lots of volume....


----------



## bg091593 (Jul 11, 2017)

tenny said:


> I just kept banging along....I didn't care how much I weighed
> or how much stage weight I was putting on....the mirror was my
> tool...
> 
> ...



How long did it take you to put on those 18 pounds? What was the heaviest you've been off-season? And I'd love to see pics of that hahah


----------



## tenny (Jul 11, 2017)

bg091593 said:


> How long did it take you to put on those 18 pounds? What was the heaviest you've been off-season? And I'd love to see pics of that hahah



I believe it was an eight year span there....

ive been 268 most ive ever weighed....

don't know if I have a pic of it...
I can probably find something close though.


----------



## tenny (Jul 11, 2017)

low 260s.....not 268
really the only one I have from around that time

I was trying to still hold on to the hair...


so eat how you want to eat, that's what I did and still do...
if you feel you need to eat like a prison inmate...then do it
if that's working for you....

but I if don't feel like eating....THEN I DONT....I gained just fine
and not boat loads of slin, or gear..


----------



## Marky boy (Jul 11, 2017)

Would be good to discuss insulin more and the diets and protocols everyone has used to gain lean tissue. 

I know certain coaches such as Justin Harris are keen on slin at 3x per day 3x per week and he has some very decent competitors! 

I'm all for experimenting with food and slin to see what I can achieve ( along with AAS too ) so hit me up CG and wel talk and I can log the experiment possibly


----------



## squatster (Jul 11, 2017)

Marky boy said:


> Would be good to discuss insulin more and the diets and protocols everyone has used to gain lean tissue.
> 
> I know certain coaches such as Justin Harris are keen on slin at 3x per day 3x per week and he has some very decent competitors!
> 
> I'm all for experimenting with food and slin to see what I can achieve ( along with AAS too ) so hit me up CG and wel talk and I can log the experiment possibly


We will need to do a totaly different thread for this topic - some strait forward questions and answers and i .my self would like to do an insulin progress log- 
This is a topic that like Lil Sully pointed out is long over due.
Sorry for getting of the first and main subject here CG


----------



## tenny (Jul 11, 2017)

my question is....

CG....why (at closer to 60 then 50) still feel the need to
keep bangin slin...???


----------



## squatster (Jul 11, 2017)

tenny said:


> my question is....
> 
> CG....why (at closer to 60 then 50) still feel the need to
> keep bangin slin...???


Sorry tenny- alot of us here want to know this info
CG was kind enough to post this for us- 
Please man- and thank you CG


----------



## AnaSCI (Jul 11, 2017)

Concreteguy said:


> OK. So that we don't have the drama, I'm going to recommend a very tame version of an "Eat when your hungry" Boosted with slin program.  I would start by contacting Tenny and ask him for his diet plan. This will cost a few bucks (deservingly so) because that's what he does for a living. This will work with any diet so don't be concerned about it being a "slin" diet.
> -I would take that complete diet plan and brake down the carbs in each meal.
> - If for some reason any of these meals don't have at least 100 carbs per meal they wont be sufficient to use them effectively. If your in the school of thought that you should just pin enough to cover the carbs any way, go right ahead.<----But I think your spitting in the ocean playing games like that.
> - I would assume that it takes 10 carbohydrate to cover each and ever iu of Humalog you inject.
> ...



CG, can we copy this post into a new thread of it's own? A slin discussion here is much needed


----------



## Concreteguy (Jul 11, 2017)

tenny said:


> my question is....
> 
> CG....why (at closer to 60 then 50) still feel the need to
> keep bangin slin...???



Tenny, at my incredibly advanced years I'm just lucky to be alive. Thanks for pointing out my age *once again*.

 Look because of this fucking clown I'm out of this thread guys. Your resident expert can fill in ALLLL the blanks.

 For the record TWICE I have attempted to direct customers to you in this thread. I then changed the direction of the thread to one that agrees with this nonsense you keep forcing on the thread.

The answer to your question: BECAUSE I CAN USE NEXT TO NO GEAR. THE ANABOLIC EFFECTS OF THE SLIN ACTING IN CONCERT WITH THE GEAR MAKES THIS POSSIBLE. I can stay low does all year round and still grow at such an old, OLD, age. 
 But you already knew that didn't ya HotShot.:action-smiley-054:


----------



## Marky boy (Jul 11, 2017)

AnaSCI said:


> CG, can we copy this post into a new thread of it's own? A slin discussion here is much needed



I agree with this


----------



## Ragnor (Jul 11, 2017)

Marky boy said:


> I agree with this


I agree if can get CG posting again.


----------



## rAJJIN (Jul 11, 2017)

CG,
Tenny does not have to agree. Its YOUR thread and guys are asking you for advice. Just skip past Tenny. He could always start a thread called Tenny here, and give you a chance to have a go at his methods or advice.

Im a member of another site with a private area like this one. 
The only BB site I visit besides here and proM.
Well this site had 5 Tennys that would group up and follow my every post and word. Same as you I was to the Point of Saying F it. BUT I stayed and now enjoy
the place. I learned to not get worked up (I was just like you hot head)
now I go there and enjoy it doing my own thing. Made many good friends
and learn to easily deal with the few that would troll me.


----------



## rAJJIN (Jul 11, 2017)

100+ reply's is a kick ass thread.
There must be a few things in here guys have interest in.

A Guy told me something helpful once or maybe I even read it here....
Once you learn how to take emotion out of it it comes down to rite and wrong....
people easily take things personal and get all worked up.


----------



## squatster (Jul 12, 2017)

rAJJIN said:


> 100+ reply's is a kick ass thread.
> There must be a few things in here guys have interest in.
> 
> A Guy told me something helpful once or maybe I even read it here....
> ...


2500 hits /views -in how many days?
Crazy


----------



## Marky boy (Jul 12, 2017)

rAJJIN said:


> 100+ reply's is a kick ass thread.
> There must be a few things in here guys have interest in.
> 
> A Guy told me something helpful once or maybe I even read it here....
> ...



Yep. Already said it give his methods a try and see how it works for me and let others know my results. 

Currently on a cruise so I will be fresh in a few weeks ( once bloodwork is done and if all is well )


----------



## AnaSCI (Jul 12, 2017)

I have moved the posts relating to Concreteguy's slin diet discussion to here: http://www.anasci.org/vB/peptides-growth-factors/41532-concreteguy-slin-diet.html

A good topic for it's own discussion in the Peptides and Growth Factors forum


----------



## IRONFIST (Jul 12, 2017)

AnaSCI said:


> I have moved the posts relating to Concreteguy's slin diet discussion to here: http://www.anasci.org/vB/peptides-growth-factors/41532-concreteguy-slin-diet.html
> 
> A good topic for it's own discussion in the Peptides and Growth Factors forum



awesome!


----------



## Massive G (Jul 12, 2017)

rAJJIN said:


> If I Just eat when I am hungry... Can I also just eat whatever I want?
> 
> If I have to eat Chicken and Rice cakes... or drink some syrup with baby deer blood IGF then Id be Hungry as hell all the time.
> 
> ...


This eating when hungry - not disputing bboy tenny or otherwise but we know where it came from-
I am not knocking Phil, have always respected the man and even paid him to train me back in 2004 he was my idol (he shaped a lot of my training methods back in 1995 or so with that article in MD after he won the USA's - I'll see if I can find it) and it was after I signed up to PRO M, the training routine was laughable to me - it was for a genetic freak like phil, the diet....never mentioned "eating while hungry"- had me on like 8 meals.
I don't know if I can access the diet or routine as it was on a hotmail account but I'll look. As everyone knows that was there on PM at the time Phil switched around a lot to what he was selling or promoting (not abnormal most people do) but he said he won the USA's on LBA's, that one brand he was promoting and they weren't even around then in 1995, then he switched to TN's LBA's and said the others were crap and sucked. Either way the diet he mentioned in the article was he won the USA eating just shrimp and broccoli.

I am going to try and post more here - lots of interesting threads.


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## kscowboy (Jul 12, 2017)

Yeah i hired him as well and my meal plan, workout plan and supplement plan were the exact same as a friend of mines that he got from Phil and he outweighed me by 30-40 lbs.  His ego was his downfall.


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## Massive G (Jul 12, 2017)

kscowboy said:


> Yeah i hired him as well and my meal plan, workout plan and supplement plan were the exact same as a friend of mines that he got from Phil and he outweighed me by 30-40 lbs.  His ego was his downfall.



Yea like I said I don't want to disrespect him but he obviously fell apart at the end. Still respect him for what he did in bb'ing and wish him the best.


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## tenny (Jul 12, 2017)

without pics of this huge bodybuilder....this thread
is all hearsay...

wheres all the pics and proof that this shit works..???

post up some pics of the mighty CG....

proof is in the pudding..

heres mine...eating when HUNGRY


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## kscowboy (Jul 12, 2017)

Massive G said:


> Yea like I said I don't want to disrespect him but he obviously fell apart at the end. Still respect him for what he did in bb'ing and wish him the best.



Totally agree.  Wish him and his family the best.


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## kscowboy (Jul 12, 2017)

tenny said:


> without pics of this huge bodybuilder....this thread
> is all hearsay...
> 
> wheres all the pics and proof that this shit works..???
> ...



Damn dog.  Looking great right there.  How old are you?


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## tenny (Jul 12, 2017)

kscowboy said:


> Damn dog.  Looking great right there.  How old are you?



42

:action-smiley-041:

waiting for other pics to be posted....

ill bet NONE....


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## Concreteguy (Jul 12, 2017)

tenny said:


> without pics of this huge bodybuilder....this thread
> is all hearsay...
> 
> wheres all the pics and proof that this shit works..???
> ...



Tenny please start by listing the BBing shows you have won.

Dude I started BBing after the age your currently at. lol    Every gain I made was harder to do than what your dealing with. If I new I was going up against you at the age of 57 I would have prepared and kicked your ass. Tennyboy you don't know how to win, because you have never won. You know how to run your mouth. 

THATS ALL YOU GOT TO BACK UP YOUR MOUTH?????

"I'm bigger than you so I'm right". Dude, you shame your self. But Brad is smarter and more correct on everything he says because he is *much* bigger than you?  The guy that beat him at his last show is even more correct than Brad.:banghead:

 The facts are ALL THE REAL PROS DO SLIN. It's a well known fact. PERIOD! You telling me to prove it, is just more of your inability to develop a reasonable argument to make your point. Everyone knows they do. It's in your corner to prove they don't *Mr expert*. Will you be posting up a cock pic next dude. WE ALL KNOW YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST DICK!  

Dude, this complete meltdown is going to follow you from forum to forum. Your the industry expert here and everywhere else you post. It's really time to just man up and walk away. Why start a debate your I'll equipped to discuss? 

 Now go ahead and get in the last word and STFU already!!!!

  CG


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## rAJJIN (Jul 12, 2017)

One blurry distorted picture?
Lets see what you look like tooday in the gym? Rep out some 500Lb skwats for us?  

I know your a Big fella so lets see where you are at?


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## Concreteguy (Jul 13, 2017)

tenny said:


> without pics of this huge bodybuilder....this thread
> is all hearsay...
> 
> wheres all the pics and proof that this shit works..???
> ...



YA BUDDY! This is me well over 50 but still good enough to win the Mr Pa and Mr Philly, Mr LehighValley<---won every show I entered that year Teny.  Wish you had been in the line up *buddy*. I'm almost ready to go in these pics. Your pics are fat and blurry. I put on all the muscle in two years using slin and gear. The back pic(Three weeks out) was after recovering from a pretty bad tear training it. You can still see the blood under the skin. But I didn't pay my bills with excuses, I just went and fucking won. You should feel like such an ass dude. Your calling out a 57 years old guy. I have all the accolades of success in this sport I need and nothing to prove. Did you forget you need a chest in BBing? How is the back doing buddy? What shows have YOU won. The Tri State BIG MOUTH?


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## *Bio* (Jul 13, 2017)

Both of you guys have more than respectable physiques and both of you have stepped on stage and that takes guts.

Enough of the drama!  Having an intellectual debate is fine but the emotions are running high and it needs to end!!  You both have so much to offer everyone.

Have a civil debate...if there's a difference of opinion just agree to disagree before it gets too heated.


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## psych (Jul 13, 2017)

Easy way to bulk have a mexican g/f.....she will fuckin cook in bulk


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## squatster (Jul 13, 2017)

psych said:


> Easy way to bulk have a mexican g/f.....she will fuckin cook in bulk



Brotha
Great to see you man


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## IRONFIST (Jul 13, 2017)

to tenny and concreteguy you both look real good in the pics!!


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## pesty4077 (Jul 13, 2017)

I think both of you look great. I also feel both have valid points. I for one do not just want to hear one side either. Let's learn to disagree with out getting into a heated match. One size does not fit all. 

One more thing, good too see you here Massive G, I have much respect for you and your posts.


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## Concreteguy (Jul 13, 2017)

pesty4077 said:


> I think both of you look great. I also feel both have valid points. I for one do not just want to hear one side either. Let's learn to disagree with out getting into a heated match. One size does not fit all.
> 
> One more thing, good too see you here Massive G, I have much respect for you and your posts.



Massive G has a lot to bring to the table. It was good to see him as VIP.

   CG


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## Elvia1023 (Jul 13, 2017)

kscowboy said:


> Yeah i hired him as well and my meal plan, workout plan and supplement plan were the exact same as a friend of mines that he got from Phil and he outweighed me by 30-40 lbs.  His ego was his downfall.



No surprise as didn't he charge $250 for 1 year at some point. He must have had 100's of clients at the same time making it impossible to give the time needed for each client. There is nothing wrong with pushing products you believe in but what I was told is he would practically make sure guys used everything he sold. Personally I and I am sure most on here couldn't train someone if it meant I would be half arsing and sending them copy and pastes all the time. He could have charged 4 times more and probably had 1/4 of the clients but the time to train them properly.


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## gungalunga (Jul 13, 2017)

I think more than anything this thread proves is that there isn't ONE right way of doing things for everybody. CG....Tenny....you guys both look great and I look forward to getting more info and advice from both of you in the future. Right now I think I'm going to make a big bowl of popcorn and re-read this thread as it is as entertaining as it is informative. Maybe I should use some slin before I eat the popcorn.....maybe a whey shake to wash the popcorn down....ah screw it....pizza and beer sounds better....


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## rAJJIN (Jul 13, 2017)

gungalunga said:


> I think more than anything this thread proves is that there isn't ONE right way of doing things for everybody. CG....Tenny....you guys both look great and I look forward to getting more info and advice from both of you in the future. Right now I think I'm going to make a big bowl of popcorn and re-read this thread as it is as entertaining as it is informative. Maybe I should use some slin before I eat the popcorn.....maybe a whey shake to wash the popcorn down....ah screw it....pizza and beer sounds better....



Dont forget the glutamine


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## AR-15 (Jul 20, 2017)

Damn. I thought this started out to be a thread with some real potential. One that would maybe broaden my way of thinking. Maybe shed some new light on my old school ways. But nope. Then it turned into a total waste of my fucking time. Lol....AR....


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## *Bio* (Jul 20, 2017)

AR-15 said:


> Damn. I thought this started out to be a thread with some real potential. One that would maybe broaden my way of thinking. Maybe shed some new light on my old school ways. But nope. Then it turned into a total waste of my fucking time. Lol....AR....



It's too bad CG abandoned this thread.


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## Sandpig (Jul 20, 2017)

*Bio* said:


> It's too bad CG abandoned this thread.


Yep, MIA in both his threads.
Guess he got tired of arguing.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## K1 (Jul 20, 2017)

Sandpig said:


> Yep, MIA in both his threads.
> Guess he got tired of arguing.



That's what happens when you start a good topic, you have to deal with those that have a different opinion on the subject...If every topic had only one point of view theses threads wouldn't make it passed the initial post and all other posts would just be Bumps or kiss-ass comments!

Difference of opinion fuels discussion!


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## squatster (Jul 21, 2017)

K1 said:


> That's what happens when you start a good topic, you have to deal with those that have a different opinion on the subject...If every topic had only one point of view theses threads wouldn't make it passed the initial post and all other posts would just be Bumps or kiss-ass comments!
> 
> Difference of opinion fuels discussion!


Would have been nice if it were just difference of opinions - he got proded - poked - kicked and just plain old attacked - we need to never let that happen again like this one happened - like AR said - it started out incredable - then turned into shit


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## AR-15 (Jul 21, 2017)

I quit reading it when it became childish so I can't comment on who really got attacked or whatever. I was just looking to see what and how everyone else here eats while on. I've always been really lucky that when I'm bulking or cutting if I'm on anabolics then I'm hungry. I basically eat everything in site. My problems are different than most. I actually find myself eating too much shitty foods I think. I was brought up with the mind set of it's in front of you while on AAS then eat it. Plus I'm always hungry on so I find myself eating foods I normally wouldn't touch. That's why I was looking forward to comparing my food intake and habits with the rest of you. I mean I know what works best for me when I'm training for a specific task but I still would of enjoyed seeing how the rest of you feed the fire. No biggie I'm sure we will start a good chat soon.....AR....


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## K1 (Jul 21, 2017)

squatster said:


> Would have been nice if it were just difference of opinions - he got proded - poked - kicked and just plain old attacked - we need to never let that happen again like this one happened - like AR said - it started out incredable - then turned into shit



Goes both ways though.


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## Marshall (Jul 21, 2017)

Who in the world would call out CG? He's one of the biggest 57 year olds walking around. 1 in 10k 57 yr olds look like him.


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## pesty4077 (Jul 21, 2017)

Marshall said:


> Who in the world would call out CG? He's one of the biggest 57 year olds walking around. 1 in 10k 57 yr olds look like him.



I put those stats more like 1 in a million, maybe more. I am same age as him, trust me I don't see guys too often at my age looking like that. He looks great.


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## speeder (Jul 21, 2017)

please come back, Concreteguy and let's continue this slin discussion!!


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## tenny (Jul 22, 2017)

speeder said:


> please come back, Concreteguy and let's continue this slin discussion!!



he has nothing left to say....besides the secret he wont tell anyone...

because it doesn't exsist....


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## tenny (Jul 22, 2017)

pesty4077 said:


> I put those stats more like 1 in a million, maybe more. I am same age as him, trust me I don't see guys too often at my age looking like that. He looks great.



don't sell yourself short Pesty....for trt you look great

if you did the same doses as he does.....you would be insane.

just sayin


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## K1 (Jul 22, 2017)

tenny said:


> he has nothing left to say....besides the secret he wont tell anyone...
> 
> because it doesn't exsist....



You know after reading through this entire thread again, seeing the point of views of you, bboy, CG, Big A, taking drugs out of the equation entirely (and seeing that CG has been back in this thread at least 4 times this week without posting)...I agree with you, there is no secret: You both said pretty much the same thing...The rest is up to the individual (like everything else in this sport)! 

I am the same as CG and Big A, whereas I have to eat by the clock/numbers to make sure I follow through on things. You/bboy do not bound yourselves to those guidelines, which makes clear sense (lazy off days and you minimize your caloric intake - busy workload days and you are hammering in the calories)...I do not have the dedication to make sure that I didn't just eat shit food on those off days, so I have to stick to the same boring routine because I'm a food junkie and one slip and I am off the wagon...Also trying to hammer in a huge meal would have me wanting to sleep until the next meal

But that's not saying you and bboy are wrong or that CG and Big A are right...It's saying that varying styles work towards the same goal, the individual just needs to figure out which style works best for their time frame, motivation and workload.

Just like I mentioned to CG, I was a manager and was able to go in my office and hit a meal whenever the clock struck meal time but the normal working man cannot go by his guidelines...They do not have the times throughout the day to schedule in the amount of calories needed...They have to grab a meal at break times, get their workouts in when their shifts allow and obviously cannot stay bound to the clock/numbers style...The tenny/bboy style works better for their needs (slam down a huge meal and you are good to go for hours (lessening on the off days and making up for it on the heavy days)...If you are working a manual labor job then by the next break you are going to be ready to slam another meal down quickly!

That's why the slin thread was started because people want to know how to properly incorporate slin into their protocols...Because regardless of which style you are using, you are all using slin to shuttle the food where it needs to be as fast as possible (that is one common factor - the drugs)...Anyone can take a diet and run with it (adding/subtracting where they need it to be for their structures), it's adding the correct drugs in at the correct timing that makes the real difference!


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## K1 (Jul 22, 2017)

/////


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## *Bio* (Jul 22, 2017)

Let's get this discussion going again.  CG stop standing on the sideline and get back in the thread.  There are going to be disagreements but abandoning the forum doesn't help anyone.


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## kinglewy (Jul 23, 2017)

In the end it comes down to ones original genetics. The guy who are naturally lean and can eat what they want without getting fat will be able to mega dose insulin and look good without getting to fat.

But the endomorphs who get fat very easilly? Try and mega dose insulin and see how quick you turn into a fat fuck. I've done plenty of insulin experiments on myself and it will completely ruin your physique if done improperly.

Personaly I feel gh is a must when running insulin becasue of the synergy between the two at the receptor level and also to keep bodyfat in check.

Even Big A said that slin+anabolics is so so while slin +gh will transform you.


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## JWBH (Jul 24, 2017)

There's people on here and PM that I choose to ignore, than there are others that provide great positive input.  I know that at 41, I've still never reached the condition I wanted to be at and I'm very interested to read details with regards to training, diet, and slin usage.

Hopefully you'll come back in and provide more details.


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