# Anyone Know a Good natural Fat burning stack?



## Diesel (Feb 6, 2005)

i was wondering what a good stack of supplements would be to burn fat, i wanna get in as gooda shape as possible for track, and a lowest weight class for wieghtlifting, also anyone know of some good endurance products? ive heard good things about GNC's products but im not too sure. thanx guys


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## wolfyEVH (Feb 6, 2005)

ECA stack


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## Diesel (Feb 6, 2005)

where could i get that from?


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## DragonRider (Feb 6, 2005)

I'm going to start charging you guys for the time I spend researching.
You can get ephedrine here:
http://www.supplementdirect.com/?PH...=2&section=&search_type=store&field=ephedrine
And you can buy caffiene tabs and baby asprin at your local pharmacy or WalMart.

This should fit the bill for both purposes lowering weight and some endurence.


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## ORACLE (Feb 6, 2005)

here's some more for you to read on what DR stated.

First of all, buy a children's aspirin product that usually contains about 82 mg of aspirin per tablet (an ordinary tablet contains 325 mg of aspirin). Take one baby aspirin tablet with two meals of the day. Aspirin reduces the risk of abnormal aggregation of blood platelets, which can form a blood clot in a coronary artery to cause a sudden heart attack or thrombotic stroke (what Richard Nixon died of). 

Aspirin may reduce your risk of colon cancer and preliminary research indicates aspirin may slow aging by inhibiting the decline in protein synthesis that occurs as a result of normal aging. So aspirin is healthy for most people to take. Studies in the New England Journal of Medicine show that aspirin significantly reduces the risk of heart attack. 

Second, you want to take the most effective combination of natural ephedra or ephedra/caffeine containing herbs along with cofactors to enhance the weight loss effects and to protect you from any effects caused by increasing your metabolic rate. For the first week or two, you may experience a significant appetite suppressing effect from these agents. This appetite suppressing effect will produce weight loss. 

Your body will develop tolerance to this appetite suppressing effect, but by then the thermogenic effect will begin to kick in. You can eat a normal diet and still lose weight with ephedra and aspirin. If you want to lose weight by reducing your caloric intake, this combination make sure your metabolism doesn't slow down in response to your reduced caloric intake.


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## Pain4Gain (Feb 21, 2005)

Is it possible to do a ECA stack while bulking?


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## DragonRider (Feb 21, 2005)

Pain4Gain said:
			
		

> Is it possible to do a ECA stack while bulking?


I don't know, but I'm trying it. So far I have lost 10lbs while maintaining my strength and measurements.


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## recess (Mar 1, 2005)

DragonRider said:
			
		

> I don't know, but I'm trying it. So far I have lost 10lbs while maintaining my strength and measurements.



How is this going?


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## DragonRider (Mar 1, 2005)

recess said:
			
		

> How is this going?


I decided to quit. I was reading an article about clenbuterol downgrading androgen receptor sites and theorizing that ECA works along the same pathways as clen, I didn't want to take the chance. I don't respond to gear as well as most people do anyway, so I don't want to take anything that will make my gains worse.

I think I will just have to save it for when I decide to cut. I am also going to have to switch to clenbuterol. I have terrible problems with my prostate on the ECA stack. I haven't had it checked yet, but when I'm on the stack I wake up in the middle of the night feeling like my bladder is about to explode, but when I run to the bathroom sometimes I get a trickle and other times I can't go at all for a few minutes. I know it's the ECA because it clears up within 2 days of stopping it.


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## wolfyEVH (Mar 1, 2005)

DragonRider said:
			
		

> I decided to quit. I was reading an article about clenbuterol downgrading androgen receptor sites and theorizing that ECA works along the same pathways as clen, I didn't want to take the chance. I don't respond to gear as well as most people do anyway, so I don't want to take anything that will make my gains worse.
> 
> I think I will just have to save it for when I decide to cut. I am also going to have to switch to clenbuterol. I have terrible problems with my prostate on the ECA stack. I haven't had it checked yet, but when I'm on the stack I wake up in the middle of the night feeling like my bladder is about to explode, but when I run to the bathroom sometimes I get a trickle and other times I can't go at all for a few minutes. I know it's the ECA because it clears up within 2 days of stopping it.




Heres something you may find interesting DR.....using ketofin/benadryl while taking clen
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Taken from hooker at bobybuilding4life

Clenbuterol can also cause a downregulation in testicular androgen receptors and in pulmonary, cardiac and central nervous system beta-adrenergic receptors(6.)…possibly making steroids less effective (if there is androgen receptor downregulation elsewhere as well, then it's highly probable) while you are on clen; but definitely making clen less effective as time goes on and you keep taking it. To counteract this, you can take some ketotifen every 3rd or 4th week that you remain on clen. It’s a prescription anti-histimines, so it’ll make you drowsy (take before bedtime). Basically, the way this works is to reduce beta-2 receptor activity, and restore receptor function (15). 

Another option, if you are worried about receptor downgrade, is taking Benadryl, at around 50-100mgs/night before bed (every 3rd week or so, for that week). Benadryl is sold as an anti-histimine in the United States, and/or a sleep aid elsewhere in the world. However, Beta receptors are embedded in the cell's outer phospholipid membrane. The stability of the membrane has a lot to do with the proper function of the receptors. Methylation of the phospholipids is stimulated by the binding of beta agonists to their receptors. Methylated phospholipids are foreign to the body, and when the body recognizes tham as foreign, it breaks them down with phospholipase A2. This changes the structure of the outer membrane which results in desensitizaton of the beta receptors. On the other hand, agents that inhibit phospholipase A2 slow desensitization.

Cationic ampiphylic drugs are known for their ability to inhibit phospholipase A2. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is a cationic ampiphylic drug. 

Ergo, Benadryl slows desensitization of Beta receptors (i.e. Upgrades them) by inhibiting phospholipase A2, which is the enzyme that breaks down methylated phospholipids, and this action in turn keeps the phospholipid membrane stable, and thus keeps the receptors functioning properly. (7). This will allow you to use clen for much longer and it'll still have the same effects. Also, since Benadryl is an anti-histamine, and histamines have a direct effect on beta-adrenoreceptors (not just Beta-2’s but all of them), using an anti-histamine will have a direct effect on reducing beta-receptor stimulation (16), and thus upregulating your beta-receptors.

Since we’re speaking about beta-receptors and upregulation, here, let me address the claim that you can use ephedrine (or the ECA stack), alternating with clen, in order to avoid receptor downgrade. I’m not sure where this rumor came from, but it is totally incorrect.

To dispel this myth, lets examine ephedrine for a second. Remember when I said that using clenbuterol to stimulate the beta-2 receptors is like hitting a tack with a hammer? Well, Ephedrine is like a sledge-hammer, it hits the beta-2's and everything around them. Thats because it's not selective, but rather it stimulates other receptors to a great degree as well. 

Anyway, one of those receptors that ephedrine hits is the Beta-2 (yeah...the same one as Clen). As you can see from the graph below(ephedrine is represented by the the solid circles), it reduced Beta-2-AndrenergicReceptor (what we call, in laymens terms, the "Beta-2 receptor") levels to 32% of the control level after 24 hours. Read this again:

Ephedrine, in this study, reduces Beta-2 receptor levels to 32% of control after 24 hours.

(see the solid circles in this graph represent ephedrine)





Granted, it's not perfect, it's not in vivo, etc...but there's no denying that ephedrine will downregulate beta-2 receptors....ergo you will not be able to use it on the weeks inbetween your clen to upgrade your receptors.


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