# Just starting..... suggestions?



## partyxpinky (Mar 23, 2007)

Hey i'm just now planning to start getting some gear. Any suggestions? I was thinking about doing Tabs only just because its convienent, but i've read around that orals alone arent very effective in the long run. so far, D-bol has been my choice along with an anti-est. You guys know more than me so suggestions please?


----------



## partyxpinky (Mar 23, 2007)

Alright... well i decided that i'd go ahead and bite the bullet.... i was thinking about d-bol stacked with some inj just to get the kick start. what kind of inj would you guys reccomend?


----------



## AlphaMale (Mar 23, 2007)

There are so many ways to arrange a cycle for you, it would all depend on current and future goals and plans, current state of health and fitness, etc.

I would personally run a long estered-testosterone for 10 or so weeks tapering off over 4 weeks running arimidex the entire time tapering off as well. I would also add Masteron Enan or Proviron and run likewise. Use the Dianabol for the first 20 days or so at around 30mg a day either split into two doses or 10-20mg first thing in the morning and 5-10 mg every 4 hours afterward.

Or you could run Test Prop at 100mg every other day with Masteron at 100mg every other day and run Nolvadex and maybe Proviron post cycle. Maybe keep the Dianabol and run Arimidex as well and possible forget about the Nolvadex.

Another suggestion would be to run it for a straight 10 weeks and use Arimdex during and Nolvadex as your taper....uh I mean PCT. Again i would add or replace the Dbol with Proviron.

I am probably confusing a simple question here, there are just so many ways to do it and the Post Cycle part is very important and has more to do with future cycle plans and the drugs used during cycle than most realize. There is so much BS infomation out there and most people just blindly rehash others BS, read a lot of information and take all cycle recommendations with a grain of salt and wander/question why the recommendations are made.


----------



## rAJJIN (Mar 23, 2007)

AlphaMale said:
			
		

> There are so many ways to arrange a cycle for you, it would all depend on current and future goals and plans, current state of health and fitness, etc.
> 
> I would personally run a long estered-testosterone for 10 or so weeks tapering off over 4 weeks running arimidex the entire time tapering off as well. I would also add Masteron Enan or Proviron and run likewise. Use the Dianabol for the first 20 days or so at around 30mg a day either split into two doses or 10-20mg first thing in the morning and 5-10 mg every 4 hours afterward.
> 
> ...




Great advice.
I Like the first suggestion the besat and that would be what I would reccomend as well.


----------



## Tyrone (Mar 23, 2007)

Agreed with AlphaMale and rAJJIN...
The 10 week Test-Enanthate cycle would be my choice as well...You can use the dbol to kick start if you'd like since it will be about 2-4 weeks before you notice results from the Test in most cases...But I'd just stick to those 2 only because it sounds as if this is a first cycle...
I'd run the dbol for the first 3-4 weeks @ 30-40mgs.
I'd run the Test and PCT as such,
Wks 1 - 10: 500mg of Test weekly
Wk 13 - 40mg nolva+ 100mg clomid daily
Wk 14 - 30mg nolva+ 50mg clomid daily
Wk 15 - 20mg nolva+ 50mg clomid daily


----------



## partyxpinky (Mar 25, 2007)

hahah hey thanks guys.... well my goal is just to have lean mass/strength not too ripped. Right now i'm about 170 lbs 5'9" and about 15% Body fat. I dont think the blasting is gunna be long term probally 2-3 cycles just to assist me and then go natural from there....


----------



## AlphaMale (Mar 25, 2007)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> hahah hey thanks guys.... well my goal is just to have lean mass/strength not too ripped. Right now i'm about 170 lbs 5'9" and about 15% Body fat. I dont think the blasting is gunna be long term probally 2-3 cycles just to assist me and then go natural from there....


Realistic goals. A lot of people say one cycle and that's it - nobody does just one. Now I must warn you, you can gain a lot of mass if done properly with 2-3 cycles and you will not be able to maintain all of the gains. Now if you were to gain to a point of being 'just above' natural you could maintain it with proper training and diet. I would probably avoid the 'mass' drugs with the exception of testosterone and possibly a nandrolone. So many people bulk, lose most of it (as in water) and chase that bulk, don't worry about 'bulking'. shoot for lean quality gains and be realistic with how much you can maintain and you should have good luck.


----------



## partyxpinky (Mar 26, 2007)

alright.... well thanks for everything guys....i'll let you guys know what i'll use for my cycle and keep you updated. thanks


----------



## partyxpinky (Mar 26, 2007)

is that much clomid/nolva needed? for PCT? or is it better to use proviron alongside the test and d-bol? I was reading and Test doesnt aromotize so wouldnt the PCT only be needed for the d-bol?


----------



## MaSTa LifTa (Mar 27, 2007)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> is that much clomid/nolva needed? for PCT? or is it better to use proviron alongside the test and d-bol? I was reading and Test doesnt aromotize so wouldnt the PCT only be needed for the d-bol?



You will need the PCT for both the dbol and the testosterone.  Proviron won't be needed.  I'd run just test by itself for your first cycle.  A lot of ppl don't like dbol and you should see how you will react to the test by itself first.  Because if you are prone to side effects of steroids running both dbol and test together will make them worse.  Just my opinion and there is nothing wrong with doing dbol + test for a first cycle.  Whatever you choose just have fun, eat a ton, and be safe.


----------



## partyxpinky (Mar 27, 2007)

Sorry if i'm asking too much or hasseling you guys. I'm just trying to get the right cycle. what do you guys think of TRENBOLONE ENANTHATE? Sorry, and another question. Do the stealth labs come in 15 sachs, 5ml(200mg/ml) each? or is it just 1 sach of 5ml(200mg/ml) i wasn't sure if the (15) means the qty or just there. Thanks and sorry


----------



## Tyrone (Mar 27, 2007)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> Sorry if i'm asking too much or hasseling you guys. I'm just trying to get the right cycle. what do you guys think of TRENBOLONE ENANTHATE? Sorry, and another question. Do the stealth labs come in 15 sachs, 5ml(200mg/ml) each? or is it just 1 sach of 5ml(200mg/ml) i wasn't sure if the (15) means the qty or just there. Thanks and sorry


If this is your first cycle then I wouldn't advise adding in the Tren or anything else besides Test and maybe the dbol to kick start...As for the Stealth, they are 5ml/sachet, but every one I've had has been over filled...I believe the 15 you're looking at is just the code...


----------



## partyxpinky (Mar 27, 2007)

Well the reason why i ask is because the TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE seems like it has a lot of side effects. Whereas the tren doesnt seem as much. I mean if you guys think that test en is best for the first cycle i'll take your word for it.


----------



## Tyrone (Mar 27, 2007)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> Well the reason why i ask is because the TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE seems like it has a lot of side effects. Whereas the tren doesnt seem as much. I mean if you guys think that test en is best for the first cycle i'll take your word for it.


Yes, Test Enanthate...Don't do Tren by itself espeacially for your first cycle...The others will tell you basicly the same thing...


----------



## partyxpinky (Mar 27, 2007)

Alright sounds good.... but tyrone if you dont mind. One more thing. The PCT consists of both clomid and nolva right? Don't both act in the same manner? If so why is it necessary to combind the two? and if i have it right i'm off the juice for wk 11-12 then wk13,14,15 is PCT right? Again sorry for being annoying haha just trying to get everything right.


----------



## Tyrone (Mar 27, 2007)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> Alright sounds good.... but tyrone if you dont mind. One more thing. The PCT consists of both clomid and nolva right? Don't both act in the same manner? If so why is it necessary to combind the two? and if i have it right i'm off the juice for wk 11-12 then wk13,14,15 is PCT right? Again sorry for being annoying haha just trying to get everything right.


No worries, some people choose to run pct's differently...You can research the 2 on www.steroidsprofiles.com ...I've use this tried and proven method successfully and so have many others...


----------



## zombato (Mar 28, 2007)

Since you're starting out with the goal to stretch gains as long as you can, you may want to keep it straight and simple with a couple of effective long term anabolic agents.  This site will give you a ranking of chems based on retention strength, with trade-offs across bulk, cutting, sides, and cost.   

This same site gives you examples of proven basic cycles you may want to consider.  Unless you're you use HGH or Insulin, you'll notice that those that give you high mass and cuts don't necessarily last long, like d-bol.  So, agree with all that you want to use that just to kick start, else you'll be flushing it.   Deca + Test Enanthate have a good balance and are easy on the pocket too - which explains why it is a popular stack.  

A competing bodybuilder in Austria once mentioned to me that shorter, more frequent cycles are a key to long term health and success for beginners-intermediate trainers.  It's like a small boat sailing afloat; you don't want to get too far offshore that it makes it difficult to make it.  You have to gradually build your ship so you can take the vast ocean and its tides.

Good luck!


----------



## brendanbreen (Mar 29, 2007)

well to interject .. tren does actually have less sides on paper but what sides it does have are rough imo. A first cycle i would stick to a test and an oral type as mentioned above. And for pct some people use clomid/nolva, HCG/nolva, and a whole host of other arrangements but something small like this cycle you could get by with just running nolva for 6 weeks at 20mgs then taper off week-7/10mg, week-8/5mg, week-9/2.5mg and youll deff have your nuts back in running order.


----------



## mike1991 (Apr 2, 2007)

I agree about tren it is hard core for a beginner and you just dont need it and if you use a bunch of AAS during your first cycle and have a side effect or something you wont know whiich one is doing it. I started my first cycle with one and built on that.


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 11, 2008)

Okay guys its been awhile and i'm ready to start and finally got some extra money to finally pick up some gear. Everyone still think this is a good cycle? or reccomend another one? If you guys think this cycle sounds good do you think it would be a good cycle to keep with? lets say for all 3 cycles? What are the long term side effecs i know theres a lot of things out there but the only thing im worried about is how aas affect natural test production. from what everyone says if youre under the age of 30 you should stay natural and juice when youre older. i'm pretty young (19) and naturally get gains relatively easy but looking for the boost. thanks
Recent stats...
age 19
weight 175
height 5'8.5"
bf% cose to 18 now

goals lean mass (cleche)
good gains
only looking at 3-4 cycles and going natural.


----------



## Tyrone (Feb 11, 2008)

I'd run the first cycle just how we said...Maybe run the next the same and compare the two diff. times you ran it, all things being as equal as possible.
Keep logs on diet and training so you can actually compare.  Then, think about what else you'd like to try.


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 12, 2008)

Tyrone said:
			
		

> I'd run the first cycle just how we said...Maybe run the next the same and compare the two diff. times you ran it, all things being as equal as possible.
> Keep logs on diet and training so you can actually compare.  Then, think about what else you'd like to try.




The reason why i ask is because i was going to order all three cycles and pct as well all at once since itd be cheaper and wouldnt have any extra stuff around you know?


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 12, 2008)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> The reason why i ask is because i was going to order all three cycles and pct as well all at once since itd be cheaper and wouldnt have any extra stuff around you know?



What you mean you wouldn't have any extra around you know... surely if you get all 3 cycles you will have loads of gear around for over a year as it is a large amount. Shipping is only $20 (or thereabouts) so I would hold off with ordering the 3 cycles in one go. It is entirely up to you though. But it is only your first cycle so you don't know how you may react (in general or to an individual compound) etc etc etc etc. Too many reasons to list but I would just get all your stuff for this cycle and extra incase any mistakes (drop vile or split sachet). Make sure you have more than enough protection too. But I feel you should only plan out your following 3 cycles when you have a better knowledge and personal experience of different compounds.

In ref to your cycle I would just do what everyone else as stated. Even though it is your first dbol will be fine with a long estered test. As it's your first time I feel 25mg per day would be plenty and you would put on huge bulk with that dose. Added to that 500mg of test c/e or even sust and you will be cool. I would run it for 10-12 weeks. So just do it about 11. Take armidex throughout your cycle. If you kickstarting with dbol maybe do 0.75mg per day and after the 4/5 weeks (I would do 5) lower than to 0.5mg per day (even 0.25mg). You don't need to bother tapering the dose but can if you want. You should do that upto 2/3 weeks after your last injection. Then you start PCT. For PCT I would do Clomid and Nolva and do that for 21 days. I forgot to add HCG would be great to stop your balls going the size of peanuts. You could do that every 4 weeks and do it for 3/4 days in that particular week (about 500IU each time). Or you can do a 500IU injection every 7 days which I feel will work best for you. It will stop then getting small and give you that extra boost and aid the performance of ther other compounds. So your cycle would look like this:

Week 1-11 = Test C at 500mg per week split into 2 (Mon, Thurs)
Week 1-5 = Dbol at 25mg per day split up to ensure stable blood plasma etc
Week 1-5 = Armidex at 0.75mg per day
Week 6-13 = Armidex at 0.5mg per day (even 0.25mg would be fine - you decide if your happy with the amount of water weight and other sides etc)
Week 1-11 = HCG at 500IU every 7 days (Wed)

PCT
Week 14-17= Clomid (Day 1 = 200mg (no need for 300 like many do), days 2-11 100mg per day, days 12-21 50mg per day).
Week 14-16 = Nolvadex at 20mg per day
Week 17 = Nolvadex at 10mg per day

Please note you should be running a liver protector throughout your cycle. If you use the board sponsor just add Liv52. Milk Thistle is other good addition. You can get much stronger but the previous 2 should be cool for you. A good multi-vitamin is always good too. I take policosanol (amongst many) to help with my cholesterol and it brings about other benefits. People have mentioned proviron and this is fine to be taken in conjunction with the armidex. It is not a must (like the HCG isn't really) but it one of my fav compounds. It really hardens me up (amazing) and that in every sense of the word! That especially important to me!

In regards to doing the same cycle again that is cool. But you need atleast the time you was on your cycle until you start other. I would wait even longer so you recover fully and stabilize. Then you will get better gains from your 2nd cycle (if you choose to do other). Personally I would like to swop things about so if I done test c in my 1st cycle I would do Sust in my 2nd. Deca in my first then Eq in my 2nd etc etc etc. That way you will find the best compounds for your own body and what make you feel best.

In the time you have off it is important you have fully recovered properly. This is why the additonal of a zinc supplement is a good choice. Even a ZMA product would be good. In additon to Tribulus (especially Bulgarian Tribulus) that will raise your test levels and aid your recovery. Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris causes the body to release luteinizing hormone, which sends a signal to the testes to produce more testosterone. This is a great product cos it will help normalize oestrogen levels in the body. If your oestrogen levels are too high, it will decrease them to normal levels. And if they are too low, it will raise them to normal levels. So me thinks it will be lowering them so are back to your usual self. Take Tribulus for 8 weeks then stop. 

Then after ATLEAST 3 months time off you can look at setting up your 2nd cycle if you want and put on other 20 pounds! Hope it helps and have fun.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 12, 2008)

By the way my next cycle is gonna be very similar. Will be Sust and dbol. I am choosing between Eq and Masteron E to add to the previous two. My current cycle is Test C, Deca and Anadrol.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 12, 2008)

I should add the Tribulus doesn't actually convert so that is why I rec it. It is an excellent product. I said to use it for 8 weeks because after that time the body will no longer continue to produce excessive testosterone. However, after ceasing the use for only 2 weeks, the body will respond to it again. The 8 weeks-on, 2 weeks-off schedule can be continued indefinitely. Good luck


----------



## gippywool (Feb 14, 2008)

for you I would start you on 500mgs of Sus and 250 mgs of deca and then come off with 400mgs down to 200mgs EQ. 8 weeks sus and deca then 4 weeks eq, then 4 week hcg you won't need nova for this one. The EQ will help prolong your gains and keep you full for you coming down also harden you up. Try to aviod orals if you are only gonna run a couple of cycles. Orals are more harmful to your body then liquids because they pass through your liver more then once. If you graduate and get hooked then use orals, but I would recomend milk thistle and liv 52 to help clean out your system. You should use them anyway, but more-so for oral use. Don't be afraid of the pin it's nothing, just use pins in sterile packing.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 14, 2008)

gippywool said:
			
		

> for you I would start you on 500mgs of Sus and 250 mgs of deca and then come off with 400mgs down to 200mgs EQ. 8 weeks sus and deca then 4 weeks eq, then 4 week hcg you won't need nova for this one. The EQ will help prolong your gains and keep you full for you coming down also harden you up. Try to aviod orals if you are only gonna run a couple of cycles. Orals are more harmful to your body then liquids because they pass through your liver more then once. If you graduate and get hooked then use orals, but I would recomend milk thistle and liv 52 to help clean out your system. You should use them anyway, but more-so for oral use. Don't be afraid of the pin it's nothing, just use pins in sterile packing.



Orals are very harmful but if you keep the dose fairly low and the time on them there shouldn't be a problem. They are very toxic but sometimes their toxicity is greatly exaggerated. I am not saying they are good cos they are bad for you. And if people abuse them they will fuck up their livers and kidneys etc etc. But like I said use a good liver protector and people will be fine. Most importantly don't drink alcohol whilst on your cycle. I know most non pro's who cycle like to drink whilst on. I drink sometimes too but would never when I am on adrol. But I have friends (me included) who drink huge amounts and get completely wrecked fairly often and I would say that is far more damaging than taking certain orals for a short period. If you start cycling and really enjoy it and want to do more in the future just take all the protection and maybe limit yourself to taking the likes of dbol and adrol to 2 cycles per year. The key is to use them but never abuse them like with every compound... but especially strong orals cos they are most damaging. You should always put injectables ahead of orals cos their effectiveness is great. But personally I don't think the likes of dbol can be beaten for the feeling it gives you and the results. But research other orals sucj as anavar, turinabol etc etc that are less damaging and bring about excellent results.

I quoted your input gippywool cos I was wondering what PCT you intended for the 12 week cycle. What did you mean by 4 weeks HCG? Did you mean during weeks 8-12 to do 5OOIU weekly? Or it appears you meant do HCG for PCT and for 4 weeks after the Eq. I don't get that at all. I know HCG can be used during or for PCT (90% on here will say never do it for PCT). There are many ways but if someone decided to do it for PCT and do maybe 1500IU every 4 days over 12 days then they would have to follow it up with Nolvadex or similar compound (for 3 weeks). The HCG is strong stuff and if anything will rebound more than the actual steroids so although it is a very useful thing to kickstart your recovery it must be followed with anti-estrogens. 

Oh and yeah you are right I am liking the adrol very much! I done a thread called progress about it. It brings about not bad sides (I explain in the thread) but when compared to dbol there is only one winner in my books. The breakfast of champions as Arnie used to say... dbol of course.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 14, 2008)

But of course to get a better understanding and more valid opinion I plan to cycle different brands of both over the next few years


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 20, 2008)

sorry for the late reply but i wasnt planning on dbol. Well the thing is alin asks for a minimum amount thats why i'm trying to figure out which would be best. haha this is a lot of info but very helpful guys. I'm not trying to blow up like *snap* but rather boost my gains so i'm looking for a mild cycle ya know. btw where would i get that milk thistle and liv52


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 20, 2008)

alin looks like the best source for me so if u guys have any other suggestions im openminded all ears. thx again


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 20, 2008)

LIV 52 is actually on Alinshop. I use ebay though. But just use Alin if you are ordering a cycle at the same time. Milk Thistle is in most vitamin stores. Or just ebay it! Both are very cheap.


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 21, 2008)

i was looking at the different tests and which one do u think is the "best". meaning good results, maintainning gains, healthiest (liv damage and acne and such). without "Blowing up" you know like very noticable juicing effects.


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 21, 2008)

oh yeah and about the HCG how do u open those amps? need to filter it too right? almost forgot, so u are suggesting i try different products? so test e to test c or sust? and during the cycle arimidex should be taken during to prevent gynogymastia right? is that the only thing that i can take taking into account it is very expensive or can i just take priv. or is arimidex the best option because even though money is a big part if its a nessesscity then i dont mind.


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 21, 2008)

oh yeah and another thing....... when is best to inject? before a workout? after? during? doesnt matter? and a workout plan.... 7 days a week 6 days a week? 2 hours a day one sitting? 2-1hour workouts?
What are the long term side effecs i know theres a lot of things out there but the only thing im worried about is how aas affect natural test production. from what everyone says if youre under the age of 30 you should stay natural and juice when youre older. i'm pretty young (19) and naturally get gains relatively easy but looking for the boost. thanks
Recent stats...
age 19
weight 175
height 5'8.5"
bf% cose to 18 now

goals lean mass (cleche)
good gains
only looking at 3-4 cycles and going natural.


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 21, 2008)

k well im ordering now but before i go and pay test c depot is the same? as test c right? what does the depot mean? and for the HCG how do u measure out ius?


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 21, 2008)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> i was looking at the different tests and which one do u think is the "best". meaning good results, maintainning gains, healthiest (liv damage and acne and such). without "Blowing up" you know like very noticable juicing effects.



Definately Sustanon. Test P is great for cutting cycles and carries much less water weight than the long estered tests. Sust is a test blend and would be an excellent choice. Plus you wouldn't need to inject eod like with test p. 2 weekly injections would be best imo. I plan to use it next cycle and will do Mon and Thurs injections.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 21, 2008)

If your only 19 I would stay away from gear completely. The questions you ask about routine etc etc shows you should learn the natural route first. You should have a solid knowledge of diet and training b4 embarking on gear. Not to mention the fact you are only 19 and haven't developed fully. I would sort those 2 things out and then look at gear when your alittle older.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 21, 2008)

Just make sure you eat right and train right. Research diets tips (bulking tips in regards to food). Then make sure you are doing all exercises with proper form and have a excellent knowledge of different exercises for each bodypart. Ask a few personal trainers or someone experienced at your gym. And I don't mean the biggest fella cos that means nothing and he may be clueless. 

There is no right answer in regards to actual routines. If your natural I would say Mon, Wed, Fri would be best. That gives you the 24hrs your nervous system needs to fully recover. Plus the big break on the w/e. You should have 2/3 core exercises for each bodypart such as Squat for legs, Deadlift for back, bench press for chest etc etc. And have a few others for each body part to swop about each time. You should do between 3-4 exercises for each bodypart and no more than 5 sets. If you do 3 exercises then do 5 sets. If you do 4 exercises than do 4 sets. There is no right answer though. Just get the basics spot on cos it is true about about many saying a jack of all trades a master of none. Get the core exercises spot on and work on from them. You should always warm up and strench properly (b4 and after... even during). You can go up in weight or go down. I swop it about. I would do 5 sets and go gradually up in weight. But now if I am bench pressing I might do 5 sets of the same weight... it changes all the time. I have actually changed my routine completely recently. 

Many say you need to lift big weights do get big and that is true in many respects but not in others. I now for every bobypart pick a weight I should get about 15 from. So in my 1st set I will get about that amount. The key is I don't count and I concentrate on contraction and form. When I can not go on or my form starts slipping due to fatigue I will stop. Oh and this is true for most exercises (not all is your going explosive or 'pumping iron') but you should always move slowly and make sure form is spot on. Don't be banging massive weights up and down it is just ego boosting and doesn't really do anything effective apart from impress people at the gym. For my 2nd set (30 secs rest or so) I will do the same and carry on till I have to stop or my form is messed up. I will attempt that 4 or 5 times depending on the exercise and/pr how I feel. So by the 5th attempt I can maybe manage 5. Oh and I don't have huge weights like I used to but just a nice amount that I can control properly.

You can do 4 days per week but the 3 is spot on. Especially considering your 19 and still growing. You will notice you will be knackered off 4 (mon,tues, thurs, fri). You could do one day on one day off if you are able to get to the gym on the w/e. I say you should be knackered cos your workouts should be intense. It is better to have fewer workouts and they be intense then have 5/6/7 per week and they be boring and similar and none challenging. So many people over train and do 15 sets on bench press etc or go 6 times per week and it is pointless. Don't confuse that to pro's or people who have individual parts each day of the week. I know many who work out 6 of 7 to great effect but the average gym goer who does that is just wasting their time. The other key is rest. You develop muscle when you are in recovery. You have to tear the muscle fibres and then make sure you have lots of rest (so 8-10 hours sleep per day). You tear different fibres from light weight high rep routines and heavy weight and lowe rep routines... that is why you should use both if your routine. Hope all the above helps


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 21, 2008)

Just copied part of a reply I done in other thread. Just regarding a plan for an actual 3 and 4 day routine.

The Mon, Wed, Fri is a winning formula but I have started doing 4 days too. There are 1001 ways but if your doing 4 days I would rec:

Mon- Legs, Abs

Tues- Shoulders, Biceps, Abs

Thurs- Back

Fri- Chest, Triceps, Abs

If you do 3 days then: 

Mon Legs, shoulders, Abs

Wed Chest and Tri-ceps, Abs 

Fri Back and bi-ceps.


Both the above are cool just make sure you have your exercises sorted out. Like I said I would stay away from gear for a few years. Just stick to lots of protein, complex carbs, essential fats etc etc. If you want a little test boost then take Tribulus. It is a herb and great product to be used in conjunction with the gym. I would do 8 weeks on and maybe 4 off. Then back on (you can do 8 on 2 off etc). Get Bulgarian tribulus because that is best. Just type it in on ebay and you will be sorted. You don't need to be injectin yourself with 500mg Sust each week just yet. Do it natural first. By the way I am only young but if your just a normal gym goer and want to look good on the beach (not wanting to be a pro) then you should stay away from gear until about atleast 22.


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 22, 2008)

Actually i've been lifting since i was 15. on and off right now i just started back up preping for gear but i was gunna wait until i started to plateau to start the gear. As of right now i'm working out 6 days a week monday thru saturday. i do carido in the morning for an hour, running, jump rope, swimming etc. I'm a lifeguard so swimming is always a big thing. i come back later in the day after school and lift. usually my plan on mondays is chest and back, then tuesday is arms biceps tris delts and usually do traps in there to. wednesday ill do legs. thursday ill do chest and tris friday back and bis saturday ill do a full body and do high reps and low weight for the back and bis since i worked em the day before and everyday ill do abs obliques and lower back. so its 1 hour of carido monday-saturday and 1.5-2 hours of weights in the evening. as for my diet i usually try and drink lots of water and eat healthy snacks throughout the day such as peanuts and such and for main meals ill eat a chipotle burrito or eat at my moms (vietnamese food) so its usually really healthy, proteins in fishes and meats complex carbs in rice and lots of veggies.. and how much of the Bulgarian tribulus should i be taking?


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 22, 2008)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> Actually i've been lifting since i was 15. on and off right now i just started back up preping for gear but i was gunna wait until i started to plateau to start the gear. As of right now i'm working out 6 days a week monday thru saturday. i do carido in the morning for an hour, running, jump rope, swimming etc. I'm a lifeguard so swimming is always a big thing. i come back later in the day after school and lift. usually my plan on mondays is chest and back, then tuesday is arms biceps tris delts and usually do traps in there to. wednesday ill do legs. thursday ill do chest and tris friday back and bis saturday ill do a full body and do high reps and low weight for the back and bis since i worked em the day before and everyday ill do abs obliques and lower back. so its 1 hour of carido monday-saturday and 1.5-2 hours of weights in the evening. as for my diet i usually try and drink lots of water and eat healthy snacks throughout the day such as peanuts and such and for main meals ill eat a chipotle burrito or eat at my moms (vietnamese food) so its usually really healthy, proteins in fishes and meats complex carbs in rice and lots of veggies.. and how much of the Bulgarian tribulus should i be taking?



Sounds like you have most things sorted. Just be careful not to over train. But if you just want to be smaller and toned then your routine is decent. It sounds like you put alot of dedication into it so that is cool. Your diet sounds great too. What I would say is 1.5-2 hours per day for your evening (weights) routine is far too much. Especially if you are doing it 6 days per week! I assume you do lots and lots of sets. Put it this way say I do chest and tri-ceps on a decent day both will be done in 50 mins. Maybe chest takes alittle longer. But the longest I would spend is 1.5 hours on that routine. I should be done in just over 1 hour. Workouts should be short but intense. That time frame includes when I do my light weight and high rep sets too. Like if I do bi-ceps I will do about 12 or so curls with dumbells (one at a time) nice and slow and when I start to struggle I swop straight over to hammer curls and should get about 10 of them done... the pump is immense. I do that 3 times. I only use a light weight for that cos you don't need heavy weights. Or I do supersets of certain exercises that could be 40 reps. But on the whole I do high weight 4-10 reps.

In regards to the tribulus it depends upon the brand. If my memory serves me right it is usually 1 tab taken 3 times daily (with food). You can do it for 8 weeks then take 2 off then 8 again. I would take more time off though (the same with any product it is always good to take extra time off then they suggest). I have included info on Tribulus earlier in this thread. I am actually ordering it myself for the end of my cycle too boost my test levels cos injecting test for 12 weeks really does have an effect on you (you shutdown). I will PM you with a link cos it is actually on my ebay now. I am gonna buy it next month.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 22, 2008)

It won't let me PM you. I will have to try later on. By the way you know when you say you have trained since 15... it doesn't really matter. You could have started training since 12 but your body is still gonna grow. And training to your full potential naturally doesn't mean when you stop growing. Most men stop growing at about 20. They grow in future years but the main growth is seen up2 about 20 or 21. But if that person went to the gym and trained hard from the age of 15 they may not reach near to their natural potential until 27. We can always improve. But the key for you is to just keep up with the tarining and good diet and you will be cool. Use supplements and herbs to help you out and give you alittle boost. Most are crap so be careful with what you choose. Mainly the ones that have stupid names and promise huge growth are the obvious bad ones. But many are natural such as tribulus so they can be used to great effect. Then when you are abit older (even just 21) you can start your test cycle and it will be cool. But doing it not gonan help you out in the long run. I know it is hard cos you hear about the amazing effects etc but you have lots of time to do gear. I will try and PM you again. Just type in Bulgarian Tribulus and look out for Reflex. You can get 3 tubs and shipping to the US is fairly cheap... or if you find it in the US just choose them so it gets to you faster etc.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 22, 2008)

1 tub is 1 month. So 4 tubs would be 2X 8 weeks cycles. Just get 2 or you canb save money and get 3 together. Maybe ask a seller to offer you 4 with a discount and they will do that.


----------



## flatblack (Feb 22, 2008)

Tyrone said:
			
		

> Agreed with AlphaMale and rAJJIN...
> The 10 week Test-Enanthate cycle would be my choice as well...You can use the dbol to kick start if you'd like since it will be about 2-4 weeks before you notice results from the Test in most cases...But I'd just stick to those 2 only because it sounds as if this is a first cycle...
> I'd run the dbol for the first 3-4 weeks @ 30-40mgs.
> I'd run the Test and PCT as such,
> ...


i just read the 1st page here cuz this is all u need pinky, adding the dbol as tyrone suggests....bump Ty here...................


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 22, 2008)

flatblack said:
			
		

> i just read the 1st page here cuz this is all u need pinky, adding the dbol as tyrone suggests....bump Ty here...................



I read the first page and thats why I suggested dbol would be fine for a 1st cycle if kept short with a test base. You should have read on though. Cos then I found out he was only 19 and there is no need for gear for his circumstance. Plus he doesn't want to go big so even if he did cycle dbol should not be on the menu. Just stick to the tribulus if you want a little boost (there are many others too that will help you out) and like I said do gear when I said.


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 22, 2008)

i was researching tribulus and it looks like research says it rrlly doesnt even do anything, but increase sex drive...... but when i lift i do around 3 workouts per muscle and 3 sets for every  workout and it takes time because i take 2 minute rest periods between reps. I learned all my workouts from people at 24 hour fitnesses including some trainners and some body builders so i change up my workout every two weeks to help prevent pleateauing


----------



## flatblack (Feb 22, 2008)

Elvia1023 said:
			
		

> I read the first page and thats why I suggested dbol would be fine for a 1st cycle if kept short with a test base. You should have read on though. Cos then I found out he was only 19 and there is no need for gear for his circumstance. Plus he doesn't want to go big so even if he did cycle dbol should not be on the menu. Just stick to the tribulus if you want a little boost (there are many others too that will help you out) and like I said do gear when I said.


see what happens when i get lazy


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 22, 2008)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> i was researching tribulus and it looks like research says it rrlly doesnt even do anything, but increase sex drive...... but when i lift i do around 3 workouts per muscle and 3 sets for every  workout and it takes time because i take 2 minute rest periods between reps. I learned all my workouts from people at 24 hour fitnesses including some trainners and some body builders so i change up my workout every two weeks to help prevent pleateauing



You don't have to swop every 2 weeks to stop pleateauing. It is good to have some stability in your routine but to constantly keep evolving. You done research and it said it just increases your sex drive? The reason it does that is cos it increases test production. And that is what you said you wanted a boost so I would have though a product like Tribulus is ideal. By the way all Tribulus is not the same. I would say 80% of the products available are crap. The other 20% will will decent up to excellent. Bulgarian Tribulus is the best imo. Plus I wasn;t rec tribulus so you would put on 20 pounds cos you said you just want a boost. If you wanted to go much bigger I would just say change your diet and add more carbs and essential fats and basically abit of everything... oh and lower the cardio in your routine to a few session per week tops.

If you do 3 workouts per muscle and 3 sets per workout then that is that is 18 sets per gym session cos you usually do 2 parts don't you? So if you have 2 mins rest in between each one and each set lasted approx 1 min then that is 54 mins per session. I done want to bore you with the maths but you sure you don't do extra cos 2 hours is a long time if you go 6 days per week.

There are other legal products that are useful. Many will say they are useless compared to gear but when your 19 and just starting out they would make a big difference. My mates little bro and his mate just done one and they each put on about 10-14 pounds of it (they are 18 and 20 I think). I done it when I was 20 and it put on about 6 pounds on me but it really did give me a boost. I will PM you with the product but I would stick to the Bulgarian Tribulus cos you really don't need gear at this time. You might fuck up your hormonal balance and natural test production. That is a possibility for anyone but the risks are so much higher when you are younger. Plus you don't want to put big bulk on do you so I don't see the point. And if anyone wanted to cut alittle there is no need to do a 12 week test p, anavar, clen cycle like many do... that is great for older and more experienced people. I would just do 2 weeks of clen... by the way I am not rec that at all but just trying to explain you don't need to be going on 12 weeks of test. Sure your strength will shoot up but so will your weight.

What do you think happens with a test cycle? Your sex drive goes up... that is a good indication that it is doing something. It's entirely up to you but that product I rec is decent. It's not gonan make you huge at all but will do what you want and give you a boost for your training.


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 22, 2008)

Not letting me PM. It doesn't even load up. The product is just Norateen Heavyweight 2. If you research all the individual ingredients none will put on size but it will give you a great boost. It is Europe's biggest selling gym product. I live in the UK by the way. Just ebay it or whatever. It is good for anyone cycling too imo. I plan to use it after my current cycles PCT (with the tribulus).


----------



## naase2004 (Feb 23, 2008)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> Alright sounds good.... but tyrone if you dont mind. One more thing. The PCT consists of both clomid and nolva right? Don't both act in the same manner? If so why is it necessary to combind the two? and if i have it right i'm off the juice for wk 11-12 then wk13,14,15 is PCT right? Again sorry for being annoying haha just trying to get everything right.



You can run the nolva from the begining of the cycle and until the end. My first cycle, I just started with Test E, Dbol and Nolva. Then ended up wit ha nice run of clomid.

Remember to have ALL the gear you need before you start and if you dont mind me saying, do ALL your homework. It seems like you may need to study up a bit more. The HCG vials you just snap the end off in case nobody said so far. 

Good luck with it all and just be careful!!!!!


----------



## naase2004 (Feb 23, 2008)

By the way, what is your age now?


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 24, 2008)

naase2004 said:
			
		

> By the way, what is your age now?



He's only 19 thats why I said what I said and changed my cycle suggestion to just tribulus cos he only wants a boost and doesn't want to go big anyway. Gear would be an unnecessary risk for him and just not needed. Sure it's different if he is a keen BB and 19 and already huge and wants to succeed at a pro level... but even then you should just be doing natural till about 20/21.


----------



## K1 (Feb 24, 2008)

Elvia1023 said:
			
		

> He's only 19 thats why I said what I said and changed my cycle suggestion to just tribulus cos he only wants a boost and doesn't want to go big anyway. Gear would be an unnecessary risk for him and just not needed. Sure it's different if he is a keen BB and 19 and already huge and wants to succeed at a pro level... but even then you should just be doing natural till about 20/21.


If he's only 19, I wouldn't recommend any aas...He should be running on his own natural test and a proper diet with high protein intake.....


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 24, 2008)

kawasaki1 said:
			
		

> If he's only 19, I wouldn't recommend any aas...He should be running on his own natural test and a proper diet with high protein intake.....



Exactly


----------



## partyxpinky (Feb 24, 2008)

haha alright sounds good.... lol ill probally stick around in the fourms but u guys convinced me. lol maybe il start gear in a year or two maybe ill decide not to at all... we'll see but ill see u guys around and elvia thankx for everything see u guys around


----------



## Elvia1023 (Feb 24, 2008)

partyxpinky said:
			
		

> haha alright sounds good.... lol ill probally stick around in the fourms but u guys convinced me. lol maybe il start gear in a year or two maybe ill decide not to at all... we'll see but ill see u guys around and elvia thankx for everything see u guys around



Cool. Just looking at for you cos it would be a big mistake. But see how you feel in a few years and if you still want to. They are always gonna be available. That other product I rec is good though so you can try that if you just want a boost. Happy training


----------

