# Opinions on this training method?



## J.Lizzle (Jan 5, 2014)

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/reignite-progress-with-new-science/

Looks different.

I get it as like 6 days a week training....lighter myo rep days using more isolation work then the next session is heavy using more compounds....quite low volume but high frequency.

Thoughts?


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## Magnus82 (Jan 5, 2014)

I actually like this and do something very similar.  Occlusion has been show effective but extremely dangerous when using tourniquet devices,  so this is a much safer way.   I have also found I cannot do it to my entire body as I reach over training rather quickly,  so I choose to use it sparingly on lagging muscle groups.   I also like to end with static holds as well.   I also am a firm believer that everything works,  nothing works forever,  but this is certainly a great way to stimulate new growth on stale muscles.


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## mikeystrong (Jan 5, 2014)

Sorry man i stopped by to give this a read, but thats ALOT of reading. Ill check it out later man!!


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## chicken_hawk (Jan 5, 2014)

I wish I knew more but will speak from my limited understanding after first stealing from Magnus who said, everything works, nothing works forever" , to which I would add I want to know what works best? 

Now, FST and Occlusion as well as others are attempting to stimulate as many fibers as possible within a set. Noteworthy goal I would say. However, (physiology majors please correct me) if we consider the Size Principle: *The size principle states that as more force is needed, motor units are recruited in a precise order according to the magnitude of their force output, with small units being recruited first; thus exhibiting task-appropriate recruitment. This has two very important physiological benefits. It minimizes the amount of fatigue an organism experiences by using fatigue-resistant muscle fibers first and only using fatigable fibers when high forces are needed. It also permits fine control of force at all levels of output*

So, basically if you lift a light or lighter load you it will recruit less fibers and require more work to recruit the others as the fatigue as the set progresses. But, what if I use a heavy load and recruit more from the get go? What I did say, a heavy set of five vs a set of 20? What is I did a set of 5 and waited 30 seconds and did another set of 5? Not to sure, but it seams to me that chasing my tail by starting light in order to recruit ones that could simply be hit by using greater loads does not make much sense to me.

Also, for satelite cells old school CM is a pretty good choice too: Creatine supplementation augments the increase in ... [J Physiol. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

My 2cc's,
Hawk


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## AtomAnt (Jan 5, 2014)

SHIT! I had a good post and accidentally deleted it!

OK, well... Borge is a very intelligent guy and his methods are based in sound science, however I think his methods are a little "too sciency" and not as much reflective of what happens in the real world.  For example, take guys like Scott Stevenson or John Meadows who base the methods on science but also examine where science falls short with respect to bodybuilders and powerlifters and how science can be used to form a baseline for an effective program.  

Borge's method takes a lighter load and less volume but increases the frequency... So you need to ask yourself, "Is this training load and stimulus enough to induce sufficient muscular damage, create enough mechanical tension and enough metabolic stress to induce hypertrophy?" The best training programs are the ones that optimize the frequency, intensity, load, volume, variation and periodization to produce continuous growth.  Could this program work great for some folks? Absolutely! Could it fall short? certainly! We all have unique genetic capabilities and external influences that affect how we will respond to various training protocols, so find a program that creates that right balance and stick to it!  But also recognize that over time, as your body changes, you will need o change the stimulus and vary your training.  Nothing is bodybuilding is static (unless you are doing isotension reps  ) so continue to experiment and evolve... 

My .1cc (Hawk is bigger, he gets more cc's lol)


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 6, 2014)

OK guys thanks. 

I'm just looking for something fresh. 

With this though your still having the heavy days to recruit more fibres then you have the lighter myo rep days so hit all fibres?

On upper lower for 6 days then day off alternating through heavy and light each body part gets hit 3 times a week so 12 times a month roughly of which 6 will be heavy and 6 will be light. 

Just want something that will cover everything that I can do solid for say 4 months then switch. 

I . remember seeing a post by Scott saying you should be able to gain using the same routine for a year if every session your progressing in weight or reps cos then the body constantly adapts over the year..... so gains will continue to be made and he said madcow would even achieve that as long as your progressing for the full year. 

Thoughts?


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 6, 2014)

Should say I'm all for aesthetics I don't mind if i'm not crazy strong


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## chicken_hawk (Jan 6, 2014)

J.Lizzle said:


> OK guys thanks.
> 
> I'm just looking for something fresh.
> 
> ...



I think your on to something here, rotating as you suggested is called undulating periodazation (see William Kramer) and is backed by lots of research as it does two things. Since the body adapts best to one form of stress at any one time you can focus on that specific style. So, one day you work heavy 5-7 reps, long rest and compounds, the next bout you do say higher (myo?) reps with short rest periods focusing on different fibers...actually allowing the other fibers you trained earlier to recover.

I think you have a winner 

Hawk


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## AtomAnt (Jan 6, 2014)

J.Lizzle said:


> OK guys thanks.
> 
> I'm just looking for something fresh.
> 
> ...




I used a similar approach a while back called daily undulating peri position (DUP) versus traditional linear periodization. I'm just not familiar with Borge's entire protocol.... 

But, having alternating lighter/heavy days and doing different rep schemes is highly effective. 

Shit, just recently I was doing three days per week HIT and three volume... Similar concept. 

Feel this program out and give it a nice long run to provide adequate judgement. Let us all know how it goes


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 6, 2014)

chicken_hawk said:


> I think your on to something here, rotating as you suggested is called undulating periodazation (see William Kramer) and is backed by lots of research as it does two things. Since the body adapts best to one form of stress at any one time you can focus on that specific style. So, one day you work heavy 5-7 reps, long rest and compounds, the next bout you do say higher (myo?) reps with short rest periods focusing on different fibers...actually allowing the other fibers you trained earlier to recover.
> 
> I think you have a winner
> 
> Hawk



Hope your right mate...you going to try it?


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## chicken_hawk (Jan 7, 2014)

J.Lizzle said:


> Hope your right mate...you going to try it?



Already did for nearly 18 months and had great results before I switched to PLing.

I would have three heavy days followed by three light days taking every Thursday and Sunday off.

M. Heavy Push
T. Heavy Legs
W. Heavy Pull
Th. off
F. Light Push
S. Light Legs
SU. off

Week II
M. Light Pull
T.Heavy Push
etc..

Hawk


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 7, 2014)

Think im going to look at designing a programme which is EITHER.

Upper, Lower, Off - Repeat, first high reps myo, then heavy weight lower reps.

OR..

Push,Pull,Legs,Push,Pull,Legs Off....

Thoughts on which will be better?


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## AtomAnt (Jan 7, 2014)

J.Lizzle said:


> Think im going to look at designing a programme which is EITHER.
> 
> Upper, Lower, Off - Repeat, first high reps myo, then heavy weight lower reps.
> 
> ...



Only you'll be able to know what is better based on your recovery ability.... Both are going to be effective.

In the first set-up, the volume should be lower per bodypart since you are doing more bodyparts per session and you'll be hitting each muscle group more frequently.

In the second, I would take the volume up a notch as compared to the first. 

The best design is the one that matches your training proclivities and recovery. Do you tend to do better with more frequent training or less frequent training? Do you recover fast or slow? How much volume do you tend to do well with?  What has been effective in the past and why do you think so?  Are you coming from a high volume or high intensity program before this?


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 7, 2014)

Yeah, i was gonna do.

upper,lower,x3 then rest..repeat..but cos im assisted the frequency even 2on 1 off will be enough and i can up volume slightly

Never done high frequency really but my legs are weak so it might be good hitting them more often..

I know Phil Hernon put about more frequency on promuscle last year..hitting everything 2-3times a week just lower volume

Appreciate the replies!

My intraworkout will be nailed too


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 7, 2014)

Tried the higher rep one today....Omg....your ego takes a huge hit.....I really struggle to keep going high reps.  Just burns and feels very weird.  

Like decline say I can do 3 plates for 6...

On 20 reps I'd do 1 plate and maybe another quarter. So its blagging my head hugely....Once I get used to the higher reps I guess the pain will lessen and Weight will increase?


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## AtomAnt (Jan 7, 2014)

J.Lizzle said:


> Tried the higher rep one today....Omg....your ego takes a huge hit.....I really struggle to keep going high reps.  Just burns and feels very weird.
> 
> Like decline say I can do 3 plates for 6...
> 
> On 20 reps I'd do 1 plate and maybe another quarter. So its blagging my head hugely....Once I get used to the higher reps I guess the pain will lessen and Weight will increase?



You are stimulating muscle fibers in a way they have not been stimulated in a long time.  It is new activation pattern and you will first devel the neural adaptations and strength will go up from that and as strength goes up you see the hypertrophic effects (this is how it SHOULD work in theory lol )


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## J.Lizzle (Jan 9, 2014)

This is what i came up with JUST for upper on both high myorep day and heavy days...

he says isolation is preferred more on myoreps...

*Upper – High MyoReps – All  2set apart from Arms*
Cable Flies – 15-20reps + myorep sets  
Seated Face down Rows - 15-20reps + myorep sets
Lateral Raises - 15-20reps + myorep sets
Decline Bench Press - 15-20reps + myorep sets
Bent Over Rows - 15-20reps + myorep sets
DB Shoulder Press - 15-20reps + myorep sets
Incline DB Press Flyes - 15-20reps + myorep sets
Cable Rows - 15-20reps + myorep sets
Rear Delts - 15-20reps + myorep sets
Lying DB Skullcrushers - 15-20reps + myorep sets
Seated Bicep Curls - 15-20reps + myorep sets

*Upper Heavy – 4-8rep range x 3sets*
Decline Barbell
T Bar Row smith machine
Hammer Press Shoulder
Incline Press
Rack Deads + Shrugs
Lateral Raises
Flat Hammer Press
Lat Pulldown
Cable Pressdowns x 2sets
Barbell Curls x 2sets
Overhead Extension x 2sets
Hammer Curls x 2sets

Feedback?

Seems like LOADS! lol


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## xvvfacevvx (Jan 12, 2014)

Lots of great info on here... Too ADD to get into detail ATM. But from what I can see, sounds like he best alternative would be big beyond belief, Leo, Costa.


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