# Deadlifts are for Pussies! Yeah, I said it



## chicken_hawk (Mar 15, 2015)

So, just to be devil's advocate and hopefully stir some conversation in this neglected forum I am going to put down in digital print what I am thinking. 

Now, before I go any further I want to parenthesis this by saying I believe the DL to be extremely taxing and effective and a legitimate test of strength.

So, am I recanting...not really. Then, what do I mean? The DL has become popular...too popular. Why, because it is to easy for some gangly dude with long arms to pull 3 or 4 plates with minimal training. While at the same time they can't bench their body weight or squat 185. Heck, I see chicks posting vids of 300+ pulls who can't even do a pull up...hell girl you're only 5'3" so your dead is really a rack lift! 

Why else would crossfit adopt this lift if it wasn't friendly to the noob and athletically challenged? I'll tell you why, because it is custom made for them. What other lift can you have shit form, lift more weight then you should and still post it on the web ?

And my final reason of why the DL is for pussies...no fear of death! With the deadlift it is just grip and rip and if something goes wrong, just drop it! Major effort sure...but, no fear. A wussbags dream lift. Try walking out with the same weight on your back for a full squat...you're thinking, this shit could fold me in half! Lay on a bench and unrack four or 500 lbs and tell me you don't think about ripping a pec in 1/2 and having the bar come down on your wind pipe. Do, you feel that with the DL? A resounding NO!

In summary, I am not asking the Dead to be removed from history or PLing, hell it is a tuff ass lift! Rather, I am stating that of all the lifts, it is the most appealing lift for sissies. And, don't even get me started on sumo stlyle DL's...

Hawk


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## Magnus82 (Mar 15, 2015)

Lol,  well said ch!


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## txpipeliner88 (Mar 16, 2015)

In the interest of stirring discussion the cross fitters peak at the 300 ranges and never get much higher due to as you said their shitty form. Raw strength only gets them so far then they peak out and are dun. Then they drop it thinking if they go start throwing themselves over some bar doing chin up front dip whatever's 50+ times will help get them stronger. It's great for a noob to get their confidence up but they peak fast .


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## psych (Mar 16, 2015)

You done fucked up now!!!!

Being short isn't that much helpfull. The distance is shorter but the active impulse for the stretch reflex is the same but contorted so a big start is needed. Also BESIDES Coan, all 1,000lb pullers are all over 6 foot.


I see more people bench incorrectly and squat in piss form than the deadlift. And they love to post that shit on youtube. 

Deadlift records also almost never get broken...like the all time records. The squat is always getting reset and so is the bench.

Any one can pull 3-4 plates. Yeah pick it up and set it down or drop it.....no shit it's easy.  Now to "train it" it is the hardest of the lifts.  Alot of big squats and benches not alot of big soul crushing deadlifts...even when they are those guys dont really do the other to lifts in contests. Deadlift is the fucking king and hardest of the big 3 to do.   Tall guys with long arms pull more and suck at benching.....NO SHIT! They are not built to bench but to pull. You will never find anyone who is good at all three.  The body type for a good bencher is not suitable for big pulls.  

Its also it's the only of the big three that will fuck with your progress in the other 2. Sissy lift?!?!?!

It's MOTHER FUCKIN GRIP STRENGTH!!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS CHICKENHAWK!!!! 

Injuries from the other 2 lifts you have a spotter with you. When the deadlift goes bad it goes fast and hard.  Hernias, hemorrhoids, ANY MUSCLE TEAR OR PULL IN THE BACK is death, torn hamstrings, torn pecs and biceps....BLACKING THE FUCK OUT!  Fucked up hands and shoulders.  My first 600+ lb pull before a meet when i was 198 I dislocated my shoulder. Also from a gear lifting standing point it is the only lift that has next to none in the "gear helps me" lifts.  Unless you do sumo...but even then maybe 50 lbs!?!?!?

Not to mention we put it fuckin last at meets!!!


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 17, 2015)

psych said:


> You done fucked up now!!!!
> 
> Being short isn't that much helpfull. The distance is shorter but the active impulse for the stretch reflex is the same but contorted so a big start is needed. Also BESIDES Coan, all 1,000lb pullers are all over 6 foot.
> Is 1000lbs. the standard or does 1000lbs simply require the body mass of a larger individual ? I mean there are very few short 600+ raw benchers since it simply requires a bigger body.
> ...



Now, that is the spirited rebuttal I was hoping for and it figures is would come for you...Ha ha! I Love it! While your points are legitimate, I feel mine have merit as well. So for the sake of defending my position I will offer my thoughts with within your post.


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## psych (Mar 17, 2015)

Being short isn't that much helpfull. The distance is shorter but the active impulse for the stretch reflex is the same but contorted so a big start is needed. Also BESIDES Coan, all 1,000lb pullers are all over 6 foot.
Is 1000lbs. the standard or does 1000lbs simply require the body mass of a larger individual ? I mean there are very few short 600+ raw benchers since it simply requires a bigger body. Not bigger per say but wier an thicker, trend just happens to be they are taller. The Jason coker, Chris pap, Jimmy Pacifico all high 500 low 600 raw benches all around under 5'8". They just tend to do multi-ply. A big raw is needed for big gear totals. "Raw" lifting is a new trend as a back lash to the bullshit seen in multi-ply judging, and raw is easier. But after the past 3 years raw is changing and has its own bullshit calls just like any other division like guys setting ALL TIME RECORDS in back yard meets, RUM getting fucked up, and big name guys that can't cut it at real big mets.

I see more people bench incorrectly and squat in piss form than the deadlift. And they love to post that shit on youtube. 
I'll conceed to a draw on that on 

Deadlift records also almost never get broken...like the all time records. The squat is always getting reset and so is the bench.
Not conceeding on this one, the trend I have seen is that all records get broken, the DL just less lbs. Heck James Henderson set the Raw BP record in 1996 with 705 and 20 years later it's only 722. Medelson set raised it to 713 until Spoto broke that in 2013 yes bench record, and the squat is gettign reset too. But the deadlift is LESS often, ANNNNNDDD reset not in FULL POWER. Guys break them in 1 lift meets....that's bullshit in my opinion 

Well, obviously certain body types favor certain lifts, but I feel that is a moot point. A tall goofy person who can dead 315, but struggle in everything from a curl to a front press shows some imbalnce. Sure a short armed guy may suck at the dead, but he will likely excel at every other lift ie. Press, squat, curl etc...So, IMO the DL favors the gangly Gangly guys often tend to do well in squat when trained correctly and mass is added making them not gangly. Also not every body is ment to powerlift...even bodybuild for that matter. Just like a 5'3 guy would suck at volley ball, hurdles, and basket ball.


It's MOTHER FUCKIN GRIP STRENGTH!!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS CHICKENHAWK!!!! 
Never had that problem But when you get to training max weight it will, straps will always come into play when you over load the training. A skinny guy will never have the power to crush a bar, just has the advantage of a bigger hand with more area of finger length to wrap the bar. That means shit if you can't hold on.


I wonder if that would change if you had to do a negative first? yes without a doubt! But then it would be 1.5 reps or not really a dead weighted lift 

Not to mention we put it fuckin last at meets!!!


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 18, 2015)

Ha ha, looks to me like we will have to settle this one face to face in May. It's kind of a shame that no one else felt passionate enough to chime in, but what do I expect from bbers?

I appreciate the banter brother!

Hawk


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## psych (Mar 18, 2015)

chicken_hawk said:


> Ha ha, looks to me like we will have to settle this one face to face in May. It's kind of a shame that no one else felt passionate enough to chime in, but what do I expect from bbers?
> 
> I appreciate the banter brother!
> 
> Hawk



I know right! I got a joke for you bro,

why do bbers have big biceps!?!?!?


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 18, 2015)

psych said:


> I know right! I got a joke for you bro,
> 
> why do bbers have big biceps!?!?!?


I don't know, why?

Hawk


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## psych (Mar 18, 2015)

so their boy friends can hold um when they fuck um in the ass...LOL


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## turbobusa (Mar 18, 2015)

chicken_hawk said:


> Ha ha, looks to me like we will have to settle this one face to face in May. It's kind of a shame that no one else felt passionate enough to chime in, but what do I expect from bbers?
> 
> I appreciate the banter brother!
> 
> Hawk


Make that almost no one chiming in. 
I see both points of view but have to say Chick actually out pointed the brainiac .Doesnt happen too often.. LOl.
That being said I'm pretty sure pulling 900 lbs has less apprehension.
than squatting that wt raw or minimal gear. 
The grip strength thing I understand as I have shaked hands with you and like Derek you have smaller hands than I would expect as per your lifting prowness. God gives us all "gifts" in the iron world '
In fact some get more than their fair share  That damn Eddie .
Bastard sent me a pic of him palming two basketballs at sport mart arms straight out crucifix palms down. Tell me any guy 5 foot nothin that can do that?!
No fair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  .  Love the joke though I like bbing and pling 
Chick Ive felt 1000 lbs on my back in belt and wraps . No I did not full squat it but felt a blackout coming on and and if there was a hoola hoop around my waste it woulda stayed up no problem(danger danger)  LOL!
You guys are both right in different ways.. Hey are we gonna have some fucking fun in may when chick comes into town or what psych?
I'll take him to the ho stroll by my house and play identify the tranny.Ha ha ha lol  .. You guys have me in tears yet again. Thx .
T


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 19, 2015)

turbobusa said:


> Make that almost no one chiming in.
> I see both points of view but have to say Chick actually out pointed the brainiac .Doesnt happen too often.. LOl.
> That being said I'm pretty sure pulling 900 lbs has less apprehension.
> than squatting that wt raw or minimal gear.
> ...




Yeah, it is always a pleasure matching wits with a more then worthy opponent. I am glad psyche took the time, that way my post didn't die in vein. In truth I was getting fed up with every dumb ass posting a DL video on fb so I ranted here. While, in truth I was just trying to shake things up, a part of me feels there was a lot of truth in my statements as were in psyches. However, I will not go down without a fight. :sniper:

And btw I have seen a few guys pass out under a squat load as well. Glad I have never been one of them.

Hawk


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## psych (Mar 19, 2015)

chicken_hawk said:


> And btw I have seen a few guys pass out under a squat load as well. Glad I have never been one of them.
> 
> Hawk



Cause you don't lift heavy enough :action-smiley-054:


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## The Grim Repper (Mar 19, 2015)

Deadlifts are safer for novices who in some respects can pull a certain amount with modest strength and no emphasis on form.
Deadlifts are at a powerlifting level a demanding exercise which requires attention to detail in the execution of the lift in order to pull the greatest load off of the floor to completion.  The principal of individual differences allows for variances in bodily proportions and lever as to allow one individual to perform the lift much differently, for better or for worse.
I believe what CH has expressed is the 'forgiving' nature of the exercise in contrast to movements such as the bench press and squat with regard to less experienced trainees.
I believe psych has called everyone a pussy. 

These guys are both serious and I respect the F**k outta them.

Grim


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## turbobusa (Mar 20, 2015)

Always the polite diplomat Grim. I would say Psych do a full raw and test your theory on the real . CH the same . then lets see a equipped full and see what we 
got. thanks .......... T..


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## psych (Mar 20, 2015)

my dead is the same raw or gear....deadlift suits for conventinal dont do sht, 705.


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## The Grim Repper (Mar 21, 2015)

psych said:


> my dead is the same raw or gear....deadlift suits for conventinal dont do sht, 705.



I've got the brass ring in my sight.  It is worlds away now,  but if I can see it, I can reach it....I climb...humbly but with purpose...


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 22, 2015)

The Grim Repper said:


> I've got the brass ring in my sight.  It is worlds away now,  but if I can see it, I can reach it....I climb...humbly but with purpose...



Same here bro. I have two years to break 1750 raw. If I can then the USPA masters American and Worlds records will be achievable. 

Hawk


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## turbobusa (Mar 22, 2015)

psych said:


> my dead is the same raw or gear....deadlift suits for conventinal dont do sht, 705.



Exactly but even s good single ply does help the squat quite a bit.
That is why deadlift numbers have crept up over the years and
squats and bp numbers are up off the charts .squat is with out a doubt the more dangerous lift of the two. Yes you can ripp some shit up pulling but potential for crippling or worse injuries are squat land numero uno. thx   Poor spotting had me have to roll it forward 
on an occasion . The sound of vertabrae fracturing was audible for those within earshot. thx  t


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 22, 2015)

turbobusa said:


> Exactly but even s good single ply does help the squat quite a bit.
> That is why deadlift numbers have crept up over the years and
> squats and bp numbers are up off the charts .squat is with out a doubt the more dangerous lift of the two. Yes you can ripp some shit up pulling but potential for crippling or worse injuries are squat land numero uno. thx   Poor spotting had me have to roll it forward
> on an occasion . The sound of vertabrae fracturing was audible for those within earshot. thx  t



Exactly, just watch that Lilly video again and you realize the squat is the most dangerous of the two.

Hawk


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## skinnymark (Mar 25, 2015)

I love deads.

I feel like they are the only lift that can truly prepare me for survival if a fat girl falls on me, and thus always pretend I am lifting fat girls, not plates.

Are you going to be there to get this cheeto eating sow off me? NO Im going to have to do this alone.

They are also the only lift that has ever made me faint.
In that instance the imaginary fat girl was just too big.


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 27, 2015)

skinnymark said:


> I love deads.
> 
> I feel like they are the only lift that can truly prepare me for survival if a fat girl falls on me, and thus always pretend I am lifting fat girls, not plates.
> 
> ...



Ha ha! That must be why I'm just no good at them. I set a lower weight limit of just chubby.

Hawk


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## turbobusa (Mar 27, 2015)

That is funny chick! Hey there skinny Mark! would you rather unrack 700lbs and step out or see 700lbs on the the floor and pull? Guess why?  LOl J/K 
glad you are here bud... Thx   , T.


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## skinnymark (Mar 27, 2015)

turbobusa said:


> That is funny chick! Hey there skinny Mark! would you rather unrack 700lbs and step out or see 700lbs on the the floor and pull? Guess why?  LOl J/K
> glad you are here bud... Thx   , T.



See thats where youre messed up T

Fat girls never attack from above

Gravity wont allow them to get over 6 feet from the earth


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## turbobusa (Mar 27, 2015)

I likes me some pretty fat girls ...Whats gonna happen when a fat girl fails to 
do a back ward double face dismount? you'll need fear reduction of heavy squats to proceed....lol..T


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 28, 2015)

turbobusa said:


> That is funny chick! Hey there skinny Mark! would you rather unrack 700lbs and step out or see 700lbs on the the floor and pull? Guess why?  LOl J/K
> glad you are here bud... Thx   , T.



Yeah, no one wants 700lbs on their shoulders, whether it is raw iron or supple thighs. Bad stuff can happen LOL

Hawk


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## GottaGain (Apr 5, 2015)

I much prefer rack pulls over deadlifts for back thickness. I always feel deads working too much hamstring and glute. Rack pulls eliminate that and I can really feel it entirely in my back.


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## turbobusa (Apr 6, 2015)

GottaGain said:


> I much prefer rack pulls over deadlifts for back thickness. I always feel deads working too much hamstring and glute. Rack pulls eliminate that and I can really feel it entirely in my back.



Your pic in the avatar looks strikingly like Kevin L's 
 Yes rack pulls can be great . For back thickness though  bent barbell rows old school style and deadlifts are king. Rack pulls factor in heavily 
also.   T


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## GottaGain (Apr 6, 2015)

turbobusa said:


> Your pic in the avatar looks strikingly like Kevin L's
> Yes rack pulls can be great . For back thickness though  bent barbell rows old school style and deadlifts are king. Rack pulls factor in heavily
> also.   T



I hope you don't think that's me, wish it was. It's Dorian Yates.


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## turbobusa (Apr 7, 2015)

Looked like levrone  to me Should have recognized the upper mid slabs .
That must be one of the black sox pics from early -mid 90s


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## mechace1 (Apr 13, 2015)

I would argue that if youre training from bodybuilding, the deadlift is essentially a waste of time done in the classical sense. It makes much more sense to do heavy rows, rack pulls, or even straight legs for overall development


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## chicken_hawk (Apr 14, 2015)

mechace1 said:


> I would argue that if youre training from bodybuilding, the deadlift is essentially a waste of time done in the classical sense. It makes much more sense to do heavy rows, rack pulls, or even straight legs for overall development



You wouldn't get an argument from me. With a traditional DL the lower back fatigues so quickly that assistance muscles do not receive the work they could from the exercises you mentioned. It also makes high reps with DLs pointless since hypertrophy requires such rep ranges.

Great point,
Hawk


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## Phoe2006 (Apr 14, 2015)




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## Kconan (Apr 30, 2015)

Of the compound movements, yea it has the easiest "oh shit" exit by far.  And I also agree about the strain on the lower back being a limitation.

BUT I would rather see someone DLing with poor form than the curl in the squat rack guys or the lat pulls at 300MPH that use momentum rather than muscle.  Ten years ago I rarely saw people doing deads, so it is a good thing to see another compound lift in the gym other than the bench.


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## squatster (May 2, 2015)

The deads feel real f- d up to me on the hips- got up to 405 at 15 years old for the first time trying them,  And never did them again


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## rAJJIN (May 2, 2015)

I think they are the best exercise there is for those two big slabs of muscle running up your back.
From the floor like a man.

In real life we often Pick up heavy things from the ground.
How often to you pick it up and start squatting out of the gym lol


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## turbobusa (May 7, 2015)

Deadlifts are basic and great thickeners . Improve many areas other than lumber lats erectors and lats.If you cant lock it put simple opener your hands .
squatting is inherently more dangerous. If you cant come out the hole in a heavy squat best have some first rate spotters cuz if one is snoozing or one over reacts
your fucked . Any of you ever roll 7-8-900 ovr your head because some faggot fuck of spotter was clueless? I have . Nothing like the sound of bones snapping rolling about 8 bills or so  over your head in the ass to calves position.
I have and trust me  would realy have been pulling the same out of wt and coudn't lock and had to set it down hard.
Here ya go kids [ame]https://youtu.be/ZEgjvqdrljM[/ame] I'll run this  by ed  see what he says. I'm pretty sure what his answer will be . His dead wasn't too shabby what 903? at 220 or 42... Deadlifts are awesome but squats are king......... T


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## cybrsage (May 11, 2015)

If you guys were to replace DL's with something else, what would everyone replace it with?  So far, the only alternative I see is rack pulls - which is like DLs only starting higher.


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## psych (May 12, 2015)

Power clean or clean and press.......just not strict curl like in the old days


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## killswitch604 (May 12, 2015)

I definitely see smaller guys pulling impressive numbers sumo style in the gym, but they can't bench or squat for shit. Unfortunately for me, the deadlift is my weakest movement, with my best being 405 at a bodyweight of 193, conventional style, when I could bench 355 and squat 455 at that same weight, but my hamstrings suck, though.


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## psych (May 12, 2015)

killswitch604 said:


> I definitely see smaller guys pulling impressive numbers sumo style in the gym, but they can't bench or squat for shit. Unfortunately for me, the deadlift is my weakest movement, with my best being 405 at a bodyweight of 193, conventional style, when I could bench 355 and squat 455 at that same weight, but my hamstrings suck, though.



Good benchers are built in a way that it works against them in the pull and vice versa


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## thebrick (May 12, 2015)

psych said:


> Good benchers are built in a way that it works against them in the pull and vice versa



Yes.. true that. My arms are long. Made for a good deadlift and terrible bench.


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## chicken_hawk (May 13, 2015)

cybrsage said:


> If you guys were to replace DL's with something else, what would everyone replace it with?  So far, the only alternative I see is rack pulls - which is like DLs only starting higher.



I would just settle for getting rid of sumo.

I almost think PLing should be done by height. A short stocky bastard can weight 220 and have a huge advantage over a taller 220 athlete. But, I'm in the minority. 

Hawk


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## chicken_hawk (May 13, 2015)

killswitch604 said:


> I definitely see smaller guys pulling impressive numbers sumo style in the gym, but they can't bench or squat for shit. Unfortunately for me, the deadlift is my weakest movement, with my best being 405 at a bodyweight of 193, conventional style, when I could bench 355 and squat 455 at that same weight, but my hamstrings suck, though.




Yeah and its those same scrawny bastards who post their DL PRs every week and never a bench or squat vid. Then they get into powerlifting as DL specialists.

And I have been telling you to enter a meet bro. Your numbers are great for your weight. Not everyone can be Psyche or Ed Coan.

Hawk


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## chicken_hawk (May 13, 2015)

thebrick said:


> Yes.. true that. My arms are long. Made for a good deadlift and terrible bench.




Bullshit, your suited and raw bench are pretty dam good for a short bastard.

Hawk


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