# Overtraining - At what point is the line crossed?



## chris698 (Dec 17, 2012)

I just started my third week of a 10 week Tren/Mast/Prop cycle. I feel great!  My workouts have been super intense.  When I get to the gym, I go into a zone and just start training like crazy. 

When I first started the cycle, I worked out for 1 hour, working two muscle groups.

Now I am finding myself working out for an hour and a half to an hour and 45 minutes.  I am still working two muscle groups, but doing more exercises.

While on cycle, I typically only take one day off per week.  Even though I have been working out longer, I have not been feeling the soreness I typically do the next day?

Could this be from "Overtraining', or do you think its because of the gear?  At what point would it be considered "Overtraining"?


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## incbb (Dec 17, 2012)

overtraining:

1. no urge to go to gym
2. feel burned out
3. gains slowed down to a crawl
4. hate the gym
5. always tired


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## PRIDE (Dec 17, 2012)

incbb said:


> overtraining:
> 
> 1. no urge to go to gym
> 2. feel burned out
> ...



:yeahthat:


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## Victory (Dec 17, 2012)

incbb said:


> overtraining:
> 
> 1. no urge to go to gym
> 2. feel burned out
> ...



This sums it up.


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## chris698 (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks guys, this being the case, then I am not over training!  Good to know!  



incbb said:


> overtraining:
> 
> 1. no urge to go to gym
> 2. feel burned out
> ...


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## AtomAnt (Dec 19, 2012)

Progress is progress! If you are making gains and are feeling healthy, push it! When your body starts saying enough is enough and you feel achey and miserable, take a few days to recoup.


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## Marshall (Dec 31, 2012)

I never felt the need to change routines when on. I usually just upped my calories appropriately and lifted heavier on the same routine as I got stronger.


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## turbobusa (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm sofar from overtrained . When I did over train it was all of the above symtoms + smelling like pissy ammonia diaper from 10 feet away.
Then I was overtrained . Corse I was natty at the time. T


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## Ironbuilt (Jan 15, 2013)

Pissy ammonia diaper?? WTF??? HahahahaHa. Now they do make 10ply depends or do the power ranger pullups suffice? 
Chris if this happens it's time for a bath..

I think I pissed my banana hammock from laughin so hard .. This is not right..


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## turbobusa (Jan 16, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> Pissy ammonia diaper?? WTF??? HahahahaHa. Now they do make 10ply depends or do the power ranger pullups suffice?
> Chris if this happens it's time for a bath..
> 
> I think I pissed my banana hammock from laughin so hard .. This is not right..



Urea and I don't mean dia smells like ammonia like diaper pails use to reek when there were still lots of cloth diapers used. 
IB don't even start with the you must be old as fuck coments:naughty1:
Banana hammock! Lmao..., T


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## Ironbuilt (Jan 17, 2013)

HahahahaHa  .. Its ok.. A little dribble doesnt hurt..


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## chris698 (Jan 17, 2013)

I still love going to the gym and don't smell like a pissy ammonia diaper.... so I guess I am okay!!!!

Although, I am 43 now, so the pissy ammonia smell could be here soon!  :shithitthefan:


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## turbobusa (Jan 19, 2013)

Well this occurred in my 20's when I was only  few years into training. 
I was very driven and trained high intensity high volume.  4-5 hrs daily 
at a fast pace for many many sets . Example quads am  2.5 -3 hrs hams pm
90 mins-2 hrs. Trained with partner so lot's of negs - forced reps. drop sets, rest pause etc. I was really overtrained. I don't know if I could even duplicate that intensity /volume today if i tryed.  Nor would I want too. There is a whole bunch of space between overtrained and under training. The things we've 
Learned along the way.... T


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## Dan1 (Feb 25, 2013)

That is really nice you are making real effort for making yourself even better physically.But i must say one thing you are already fit i mean in your photo you are quite in shape.Do workout which suits you not over the top.You know the side effects of intensity workout.


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## chicken_hawk (Feb 26, 2013)

There is overreaching and there is overtraining.

 Overreaching is the accumulation of fatigue due to training leading to a decrease in performance which may takes several days to recover from(short term). Overreaching is desirable and the reason top strength athletes deload for one to two weeks after a month or so of balls out training.

Overtraining is the accumulation of fatigue due to training leading to a decrease in performance, but may takes weeks to recover from(long term).

You actually want the first option as long as it does not show up until a few weeks to a few months. Once it does then it's time to back off and recover.

If you have reached over training, you will likely need to stay out of the gym for some time as your body will be tapped out.

Hawk


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## AtomAnt (Feb 26, 2013)

chicken_hawk said:


> There is overreaching and there is overtraining.
> 
> Overreaching is the accumulation of fatigue due to training leading to a decrease in performance which may takes several days to recover from(short term). Overreaching is desirable and the reason top strength athletes deload for one to two weeks after a month or so of balls out training.
> 
> ...



Something I've used in the past in "strategic overreaching."  Basically you build up to a point where you are training with crazy intensity, frequency and weight for a brief period of time and then ease up.  

I've never done MD training, but it seems kind of like a similar build up from what I've read.  Once you take that deload or period of reduced intensity, after a brief adaptation period you come back stronger.  Same concept with DC really, you blast and blast and blast and when you reach a point of extreme fatigue, take a cruise and reset.  

I've found that most really good programs tend to have some kind of escalation towards overreaching and then allow for a period of deload.  

Great points chicken hawk.


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## chicken_hawk (Feb 26, 2013)

AtomAnt said:


> Something I've used in the past in "strategic overreaching."  Basically you build up to a point where you are training with crazy intensity, frequency and weight for a brief period of time and then ease up.
> 
> I've never done MD training, but it seems kind of like a similar build up from what I've read.  Once you take that deload or period of reduced intensity, after a brief adaptation period you come back stronger.  Same concept with DC really, you blast and blast and blast and when you reach a point of extreme fatigue, take a cruise and reset.
> 
> ...



I agree the best programs do have overreaching as their intended goal (although most bbers have not arrived at that understanding yet), however I am finding it is very individual so I am looking to further educate myself on the subject. Any recommendations written for lay men like me? Rippetoe's Practical Programming was a great(must read) starting point, but did not venture much into program design.

Thanks,
Hawk


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## AtomAnt (Feb 26, 2013)

chicken_hawk said:


> I agree the best programs do have overreaching as their intended goal (although most bbers have not arrived at that understanding yet), however I am finding it is very individual so I am looking to further educate myself on the subject. Any recommendations written for lay men like me? Rippetoe's Practical Programming was a great(must read) starting point, but did not venture much into program design.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hawk



PM me, I have a dropbox of TONS of ebooks and can link you to it.

Two that I did great with are the Optimum Training system (OTS) Big Beyond Belief program (goes into ramps of increasing volume) then phases of increased frequency.  When I was in undergrad I got to the point where I was doing 2 a days 6 days per week! I wish I knew what I know now about about nutrition though...

Another one is the OTS Titan training system.  It uses a similar approach but has some cool features built in.  

I actually just signed up on John Meadow's express website.  I did a two year plan for $8/month.  For the amount of infomration on there, it is incredible.  I highly suggest you check it out.  You can buy 1 month for $10 as well.


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## Ed17447 (Mar 12, 2013)

I don't think theres an economical way to do this but testing your testosterone/cortisol ratio will determine whether or not your overtraining. If your cortisol is high and the ratio is low, then you are overtraining. too bad theres no home testing kits for this ( that I know of ).


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## chrisr116 (Mar 12, 2013)

Ed17447 said:


> I don't think theres an economical way to do this but testing your testosterone/cortisol ratio will determine whether or not your overtraining. If your cortisol is high and the ratio is low, then you are overtraining. too bad theres no home testing kits for this ( that I know of ).



Wouldn't that be cool as hell is there was a test for that?  I think I am starting to get a little too deep into the overreaching.  

My overtraining manifests itself in physical ways.  

Getting tendonitis in my elbows again.  I took it easy on back day and kept things at about 75% and cut out a couple of exercises, and am taking today off.  Tomorrow is shoulders, prob gonna take it ez on that too. I probably am due for a week off, but I'm not going to do that mid cycle.


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## chicken_hawk (Mar 13, 2013)

Remember, the key is to walk up to the edge and then back off...don't wait to fall off the cliff :sFun_hockey:

Hawk


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## chrisr116 (Mar 13, 2013)

chicken_hawk said:


> Remember, the key is to walk up to the edge and then back off...don't wait to fall off the cliff :sFun_hockey:
> 
> Hawk



Best damn way I have heard it described yet.


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