# Concreteguy: Slin Diet



## Concreteguy

OK. So that we don't have the drama, I'm going to recommend a very tame version of an "Eat when your hungry" Boosted with slin program.  I would start by contacting Tenny and ask him for his diet plan. This will cost a few bucks (deservingly so) because that's what he does for a living. This will work with any diet so don't be concerned about it being a "slin" diet.
-I would take that complete diet plan and brake down the carbs in each meal.
- If for some reason any of these meals don't have at least 100 carbs per meal they wont be sufficient to use them effectively. If your in the school of thought that you should just pin enough to cover the carbs any way, go right ahead.<----But I think your spitting in the ocean playing games like that. 
- I would assume that it takes 10 carbohydrate to cover each and ever iu of Humalog you inject.
-I would inject 10iu of Humalog just before eating any of these meals.
- I would also make sure your hungry a minimum of four times a day.
-If your hungry inside the 1 hour window before bed time. I would eat a full pack of oat meal cookies  after your meal and before bed.
- while your doing this I would recommend carrying a quart of OJ with you. You would only drink this if you start to feel strange in any way.

Understanding insulin and "can it kill you"? The answer is yes.
But so can falling over on a butter knife. there is no way 10 iu can or would kill you after consuming a meal with carbs to cover the iu's pinned. It's a wild stretch entertaining 10iu of Humalog killing you on an absolutely empty stumic as well. Sure you would go for a hell of a hypo ride but it's not going to kill you or put you in a comma. Get that silly shit out of your head. lol  It just isn't going to happen.
-Will it make me diabetic? NO Jumping in and out of use will not make you diabetic.
_can it play hell on your insulin sensitivity? Yes, the answer is taking metformin 1000mgs a day and a few other things that are saples in insulin receptor promotion.
How would I know if I was going hypoglycemic?
Everyone gets hit a little different. But I would look for,
-tingling of the upper lip or tongue
-A sudden burst of hunger accompanied by extreme thirst
-Suddenly getting cold and completely loosing your pump
-a strange feeling you can't put your finger on
-Getting a narrow field of vision that's often in black and white.
-If this happens and your driving? Stop the car and drink the OJ. DO NOT start up again until your symptoms have passed.
-Getting any of these symptoms or anything else that just not the norm signals you it's time to immediately drink your quart of OJ.
There are many more but from my experience it is these players that normally pop up when it happens. This is why you have your QUART of OJ on you. OJ is your "get out of jail free card".  

I recommend before anyone gets started using slin they do this.

In the comfort of your home with a friend, on an empty stomach, pin 5iu Humalog. Watch the clock and about twenty minutes in you will feel a twang of "something isn't right with me" as you sit there you will start to experience the onset of going hypo. What do you do???? Drink your full quart of OJ and relax. It will take up to five minutes for the OJ to reverse your symptoms but it will and you will be fine. While your waiting for the OJ to neutralize your symptoms tell your friend exactly what your feeling and have them write it down. Most guys I know in the game always get the same symptoms in the same order. So write them down and this will have to be carried in the back of your mind always. After you do this and see how the OJ works you will understand how important it is. You may never need it witch is a good thing. But it's a good thing to have it if you do. But if your carful about your carbs vse your iu's it just will never happen. But the truth is everyone I know that's in the game and uses it has gone hypo and that's all it was. A blip on the radar. 

 Lets just start with this and I'll answer any questions you may have.

One more thing. I don't do this for a living. I'm a member here and trying to help out the guys that want to know. That's it. If ANYONE has a better way to do it or wants to inject into this with constructive thought please do. 

Side note: doing less than these amounts will yield next to zero gains and would be questionable if it's even worth doing. as it is this is a small amount but it will bring positive responses building muscle.

  CG


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## squatster

Silly queation- are there people that should never do insulin?
Should we be watching our sugars?
I love candy- I eat candy getting ready for shows? Me bad- i know


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## Marky boy

CG, Do you only use slin with meals? Do you not do pre or post workout slin with intra shake etc?


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## Concreteguy

Marky boy said:


> CG, Do you only use slin with meals? Do you not do pre or post workout slin with intra shake etc?



Theres times I will drink a large glass of OJ and mix 20 grams of glutamine with it and then pin inslin. Glutamine is known for it's ability to off set insulin. Glutamine is also IMO one of the most valuable amino's for muscle building.


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## Concreteguy

squatster said:


> Silly queation- are there people that should never do insulin?
> Should we be watching our sugars?
> I love candy- I eat candy getting ready for shows? Me bad- i know



Squatser, I' don't even play a Doctor here at Anasci much less give out advice of this kind.


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## squatster

concreteguy said:


> squatser, i' don't even play a doctor here at anasci much less give out advice of this kind.



lol


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## Ragnor

CG that's a great break down for people like me who want to learn about growing with slin.I got this sent to my coach and nutritionist and they agree with what you have posted.So I guess soon I'll be taking my first plunge with growing with insulin.Really appreciate what you give to this Board.


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## speeder

Marky boy said:


> CG, Do you only use slin with meals? Do you not do pre or post workout slin with intra shake etc?



was also wondering about this?


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## IRONFIST

this was the topic i was waiting for!!


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## Sandpig

Any advice for those that can't get Log and have to use R?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## squatster

Sandpig said:


> Any advice for those that can't get Log and have to use R?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


My exact question


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## bg091593

Sandpig said:


> Any advice for those that can't get Log and have to use R?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



I've used R quite a bit and just switched to log. I'm loving the log to be honest. 

Gonna have to use more R and it'll cover a couple meals instead of just one. I'd be a little more careful as the window it's active is larger, but if you follow his advice and have some sugars on you you'll be fine. I was using 20 units R at meals 1 and 3, and now I'm using 10 units log (meals 1-6) and I'm having better effects. Maybe I could've used more R? Just play around a bit, find your limit and back off a bit. That's what I'd do but CG is more knowledgeable than I, that was just my experience.


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## muj

So you recommend slin with every single meal of the day? and how long would you typically run a cycle of slin like this?


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## tenny

heres the diet plan..

8oz chicken
1 cup g beans.
small red potato

8oz cod
1 cup green bean

9 whole eggs pre train 10iu slin
1 pound fresh pineapple
2TBs PB

2 scoops powder post train
2 scoops carb powder
2TBs PB or evoo

8oz lean red meat post train
1 cup green beans
small red potato

if I'm still hungry..

8oz cod.
1 cup green bean
rice krispy treat

no secret...no magic...no bullshit

enjoy


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## tenny

Concreteguy said:


> Theres times I will drink a large glass of OJ and mix 20 grams of glutamine with it and then pin inslin. Glutamine is known for it's ability to off set insulin. Glutamine is also IMO one of the most valuable amino's for muscle building.



glutamine is absolute GARBAGE....and HUGE
waste of money

what study can back up your statement..???


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## tenny

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18806122


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## tenny

The "Benefits" Of Glutamine Supplements Debunked


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## Beast35

tenny said:


> glutamine is absolute GARBAGE....and HUGE
> waste of money
> 
> what study can back up your statement..???



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10027916

_*"Moreover, glutamine has been shown not only to stimulate net muscle glycogen storage but also to stimulate gluconeogenesis in normal humans. Finally, in humans with type II diabetes, conversion of glutamine to glucose is increased (more so than that of alanine)."*_


The benefit of glutamine when using slin is likely that it is the amino acid that can  be turned into glucose the easiest (through gluconeogenesis... literally "creation of new glucose"). This could help reduce the risk of going hypo and might also decrease the amount of carbs needed when using slin.


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## Beast35

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9124550

*"Because the stimulatory effects of glutamine on gluconeogenesis occurred in the absence of changes in plasma insulin and glucagon levels, these results provide evidence that, in humans, glutamine may act both as a substrate and as a regulator of gluconeogenesis as well as a modulator of its own metabolism."*

Diabetes

*"These findings are nevertheless compatible with a role of glutamine as a significant precursor of glucose in fasting humans."*


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## Beast35

I do not think that glutamine is effective at increasing muscle mass under normal circumstances (and even less during a caloric surplus and when ample amount of protein is consumed). But it could play a role when using insulin to reduce the risks via an increase in blood glucose through gluconeogenesis if needed.


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## Beast35

tenny, not that even the "debunking" article you posted does not refute the fact that glutamine an be used efficiently to produce glucose. It merely states that replenishing glycogen after a lifting workout is not important and that glutamine is no more effective at doing do than using carbs (duh!).

Is using glutamine when using slin  more effective than simply ingesting more carbs? No! BUT it could allow you to get by without having to consume as much carbs when using slin... you would only turn the glutamine into glucose on a need-to basis.

And while the muscle-building benefits of glutamine are indeed grossly exaggerated, it could potentially have health promoting benefits. Specifically on gut health, reducing acid load and helping the immune system.


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## Massive G

tenny said:


> glutamine is absolute GARBAGE....and HUGE
> waste of money
> 
> what study can back up your statement..???



no offense but your starting to look foolish as you have not idea what he's using it for- to stay out of hypo.
I have been swamped lately and need to post in both of these threads but will try to later on.

I never went HYPO on insulin EVER when using glutamine and grape juice...never..and that's saying something....


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## Elvia1023

Glutamine is great if you know what it's good for. I take it everyday. I don't use it to build muscle... well not directly.


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## squatster

Man I wish i had time today.
Glutamine is far from useless in our sport


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## squatster

Can we get back to slin and stay there.
We need this subject.
Glutemine would be another great post


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## Marky boy

tenny said:


> heres the diet plan..
> 
> 8oz chicken
> 1 cup g beans.
> small red potato
> 
> 8oz cod
> 1 cup green bean
> 
> 9 whole eggs pre train 10iu slin
> 1 pound fresh pineapple
> 2TBs PB
> 
> 2 scoops powder post train
> 2 scoops carb powder
> 2TBs PB or evoo
> 
> 8oz lean red meat post train
> 1 cup green beans
> small red potato
> 
> if I'm still hungry..
> 
> 8oz cod.
> 1 cup green bean
> rice krispy treat
> 
> no secret...no magic...no bullshit
> 
> enjoy



What would you use thet diet for, cutting?

I thought we were wanting a diet for the use of slin multiple times a day to pack on lean tissue? IMO that diet wouldn't be any good.


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## Massive G

squatster said:


> Can we get back to slin and stay there.
> We need this subject.
> Glutemine would be another great post



Glutamine and insulin go together it's not a separate discussion is all i am saying..it's the secret to never going hypo I never talked about 'slin use before cause many can screw it up if they don't start slow and learn their body and the metabolism et all. 

very basic article on glutamine and blood sugar
Glutamine and Your Blood Sugar | LIVESTRONG.COM


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## squatster

I like it man
Cool article
Now its back in- love to learn more man
Was just trying to stop tenny from poking CG
Good to have you here man


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## Massive G

it's all good and tenny wasn't flaming you - I'll get more into my own use of insulin on here I hope to share- but glutamine saved me back in the day and I discovered it by accident.
I broke a barrier with insulin, way back when, same thing with GH in 2004, and other barriers broken with diet and training - hopefully we can all tie them together in a thread.


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## tenny

Massive G said:


> it's all good and tenny wasn't flaming you - I'll get more into my own use of insulin on here I hope to share- but glutamine saved me back in the day and I discovered it by accident.
> I broke a barrier with insulin, way back when, same thing with GH in 2004, and other barriers broken with diet and training - hopefully we can all tie them together in a thread.



wheres the proof???

ive seen nothing...

we make our own glutamine...glutamine is a useless product
it does nothing....unless you are DYING or your face is burned
off and cannot eat is it USELESS

if your going hypo from slin..??...you are ABUSING IT


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## Massive G

tenny said:


> wheres the proof???
> 
> ive seen nothing...
> 
> we make our own glutamine...glutamine is a useless product
> it does nothing....unless you are DYING or your face is burned
> off and cannot eat is it USELESS
> 
> if your going hypo from slin..??...you are ABUSING IT



I am the proof as is CG guys who have tried it, and no if you go hypo you don't have enough BG, it's as simple as that, I have gone hypo by missing a meal naturally or eating something that caused way too much insulin release. When experimenting with insulin back in the day I hit 30 iu's of R post work out just to see the effects, and no hypo- BG was sky high from glutamine and dextrose whey malto etc.


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## tenny

Massive G said:


> I am the proof as is CG guys who have tried it, and no if you go hypo you don't have enough BG, it's as simple as that, I have gone hypo by missing a meal naturally or eating something that caused way too much insulin release. When experimenting with insulin back in the day I hit 30 iu's of R post work out just to see the effects, and no hypo- BG was sky high from glutamine and dextrose whey malto etc.



still not proof...

wheres the proof that glutamine is doing this..??
guess what BG sky high because of dextrose and malto maybe..??

very little glutamine even gets in the blood


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## Massive G

jesus I am not getting into another "glutamine does nothing" war with anyone I  can't count extreme amount of the threads we had on all the boards for over a decade now.
you either believe it works or you don't.
end of discussion.


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## tenny

Marky boy said:


> What would you use thet diet for, cutting?
> 
> I thought we were wanting a diet for the use of slin multiple times a day to pack on lean tissue? IMO that diet wouldn't be any good.



but why would you want that...???

who says that's how it works...??

CG...???


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## tenny

Massive G said:


> jesus I am not getting into another "glutamine does nothing" war with anyone I  can't count extreme amount of the threads we had on all the boards for over a decade now.
> you either believe it works or you don't.
> end of discussion.



don't get upset bro...



have some OJ and relax...


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## Devenidas

Your immune system houses in your gut.

Glutamine is the food for the Gut.

Glutamine is formed in a healthy body in abundance so taking on top is pretty much useless like Tenny said.

BUT ...

One exception it helps tremendously is in a sick body or a body which is on its way to getting sick (coming down with flu, bugs etc anything where the Immunity is compromised) 

I have taken & given glutamine to many people , my wife, training partners, family members and it's silly how quickly it heals the gut. 

" I usually takes about 4-5 days to recover from flu. shit i m fine in 2".

" wtf i was coming down with something as i felt awful day before yesterday & i feel fine today. I swear i knew i was coming down with something & it just feels fine now".

Common statements i have felt myself & heard from glutamine use in situation when getting sick or sick.

Mega dose it 100-150-200-250 gms a day in fifty gram dosages. at least 3 to 4-5 times a day & watch it heal the gut & revive your immune system & restore your suppressed immunity.

For any other reason then this I have found it to be useless.

I always keep little stock of it , just in case if i feel i am coming down with something. Cant remember the last time i have been fullblown ill.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## Devenidas

/////////////


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## rAJJIN

Tenny is that DILGAF BAMF that only listens to Tenny.


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## IRONFIST

hoping this thread turns out to be as strong as the other one. this is a topic many of us are interested in!


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## Sandpig

As someone else said, back to the Slin discussion. 

What happened to CG? He's MIA in his own thread.

Some of us need advice on using R please.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Marky boy

tenny said:


> but why would you want that...???
> 
> who says that's how it works...??
> 
> CG...???



Wasn't part of the original thread how he put on x amount of lbs with minimal fat gain? So from that I am assuming we are talking about putting on lean tissue with slin. Which I am very much interested in. 

We need to talk the goal for our slin use then? Personally it would be to add as much lean size as possible.


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## Devenidas

Devenidas said:


> /////////////


whatt u deleted my post seriously

K1 its a running joke mate ..come on why be so sensitive ?? There is no drama here. You obviously did not get my joke.

Tenny is a good mate and knows who I am and why I said what i said (Ref to his pic on pic me today thread, comment made by someone) . It was meant to be funny & not a derogatory remark towards Tenny or anyone.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## K1

Devenidas said:


> whatt u deleted my post seriously
> 
> K1 its a running joke mate ..come on why be so sensitive ?? There is no drama here. You obviously did not get my joke.
> 
> Tenny is a good mate and knows who I am and why I said what i said (Ref to his pic on pic me today thread, comment made by someone) . It was meant to be funny & not a derogatory remark towards Tenny or anyone.



My bad then man...Been just a little too much drama the past couple of days so might have confused it with more of the same?!


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## bg091593

Sandpig said:


> As someone else said, back to the Slin discussion.
> 
> What happened to CG? He's MIA in his own thread.
> 
> Some of us need advice on using R please.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



I promise it comes down to, eating a diet that puts weight on you. Pound or two a week, then add slin to it. With R add it at meals 1 and 3. There's really no special secret protocol or diet. I mean look at the diet CG posted lmao. High in protein, high in calories. Eat a solid diet, add insulin to use the nutrients more effectively. That's pretty much it.


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## Sandpig

bg091593 said:


> I promise it comes down to, eating a diet that puts weight on you. Pound or two a week, then add slin to it. With R add it at meals 1 and 3. There's really no special secret protocol or diet. I mean look at the diet CG posted lmao. High in protein, high in calories. Eat a solid diet, add insulin to use the nutrients more effectively. That's pretty much it.



So because R releases twice, you'd only use it two times daily?

What about around the workout?


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## b-boy

bg091593 said:


> I promise it comes down to, eating a diet that puts weight on you. Pound or two a week, then add slin to it. With R add it at meals 1 and 3. There's really no special secret protocol or diet. I mean look at the diet CG posted lmao. High in protein, high in calories. Eat a solid diet, add insulin to use the nutrients more effectively. That's pretty much it.


 actually you are right there is no special secret but there is effective ways in doing things, if you going to go the slin route then do as milo's suggest and pound the EAAS, and I do mean POUND!!! you can thank me later (credit to Milo's Sarcev)

EAAS, creatine, muscle cell volume and feeding, also glycerine would be very useful in this.


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## Elvia1023

I don't have extensive experience with insulin but I have experimented a lot. There is no set protocol as everyone has a different starting point and future goals.

One of the best bodybuilders I come across would use 8iu slin before every meal of the day. I think that is a great approach. Generally for most people reading this I don't think you need to take more than approx 8iu humalog or 15iu humulin at each dosing. It's simply not needed for your goals and 2 doses per day could be great for you. 

If using slin frequently I recommend humalog/novolog. If using an approach such as twice daily and 3-4 times weekly then go with humulin-r. However nothing needs to be exact and both work just fine.

Now for guys wanting to push things other systems/doses could be used. Again there is no right answer but I think the best advice I can give you for minimizing any fat gain is the importance of megadosing aminos :lightbulb: I recommend EAA's and added glutamine as a start. Then of course you can add fun things in such as l-carnitine, citrulline malate, creapure, arginine alpha ketoglutarate, glycerine, beta alanine etc.

Start low and gradually increase your dose like with anything else. Beginners don't need to be pounding 20iu humalog at each dose. I am that slin sensitive 20iu humalog doses would be horrible for me and wouldn't work no matter how many carbs I consumed. Obviously match your slin dose to your carbs but don't forget megadosing aminos works wonders for helping you not go hypo and they won't make you fat like gorging on 200g carbs will. High dosing humalog will give most people issues and not just when it is active so be careful using high doses if you don't have slin experience.


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## bg091593

Sandpig said:


> So because R releases twice, you'd only use it two times daily?
> 
> What about around the workout?



That did make it a major pain. When I used it I would lift after meal 2 so I never got hit with the peak at the gym... yeah twice daily. Thrice if you had carbs in your sixth meal (meals 1,3,5). But I rarely have carbs in my sixth meal.


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## gungalunga

Sandpig said:


> As someone else said, back to the Slin discussion.
> 
> What happened to CG? He's MIA in his own thread.
> 
> Some of us need advice on using R please.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



I hate it when life gets in the way of posting in a good bodybuilding thread.....dammit anyhow!....


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## Devenidas

K1 said:


> My bad then man...Been just a little too much drama the past couple of days so might have confused it with more of the same?!


Allright mate. no worries. I can understand where you coming from. cheers 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## aon1

I have a question on sensitivity and DNP . I heard met talked about several times but not DNP.
I'm running r at basically 20ius after 100 gram carbs meal not eating the second peak then eating another meal at the 3 hour mark and running 20ius again,I'm obviously not super sensitive, if I start dnp is this going to substantially going to increase sensitivit? I've ran DNP but not in this situation and just trying to use it in a positive manner with the slin,doubt I run more than 400 mg give or take.


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## Sully

Is there any use for insulin when trying to cut weight and lose bodyfat, or is it only to be used when bulking?


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## speeder

Sully said:


> Is there any use for insulin when trying to cut weight and lose bodyfat, or is it only to be used when bulking?



also curious about this.. I've heard heavy hitter and a few other guys talk about getting leaner while using insulin..  would be nice to get their take as well..


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## squatster

Would you get leaner or is it that your muscle bellies are so dam full you look way leaner?
I know nothing about slin but I am going to push it this fall big time if I can find enough fast acting to stock pile


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## JWBH

squatster said:


> Would you get leaner or is it that your muscle bellies are so dam full you look way leaner?
> I know nothing about slin but I am going to push it this fall big time if I can find enough fast acting to stock pile



I'd like to try out the fast acting myself. I have about 5-6 vials of R in my fridge that I also need to use.  Would it make sense to use fast acting on workout days, and the R on non workout days?


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## bg091593

aon1 said:


> I have a question on sensitivity and DNP . I heard met talked about several times but not DNP.
> I'm running r at basically 20ius after 100 gram carbs meal not eating the second peak then eating another meal at the 3 hour mark and running 20ius again,I'm obviously not super sensitive, if I start dnp is this going to substantially going to increase sensitivit? I've ran DNP but not in this situation and just trying to use it in a positive manner with the slin,doubt I run more than 400 mg give or take.



I'm not going to just it with the insulin at the same time. I'm going to run 250mg for 10-14 days eating half as many carbs as usual to set myself up for another insulin run. I haven't seen pics of you but you have that log going trying to add as much weight as possible, just saying if you're carrying a bit of bodyfat your insulin sensitivity is probably shot regardless...

Run the DNP higher dose and longer and clear that right up!!:headbang:


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## rAJJIN

tenny said:


> heres the diet plan..
> 
> 8oz chicken
> 1 cup g beans.
> small red potato
> 
> 8oz cod
> 1 cup green bean
> 
> 9 whole eggs pre train 10iu slin
> 1 pound fresh pineapple
> 2TBs PB
> 
> 2 scoops powder post train
> 2 scoops carb powder
> 2TBs PB or evoo
> 
> 8oz lean red meat post train
> 1 cup green beans
> small red potato
> 
> if I'm still hungry..
> 
> 8oz cod.
> 1 cup green bean
> rice krispy treat
> 
> no secret...no magic...no bullshit
> 
> enjoy





This may be what YOU eat when your hungry...After years of learning and eating this way.
But someone must have laid out a plan for you at some point to eat like this. 
You did not just start eating these meals because that is what you were hungry for am I correct?
It Look like a typical bodybuilder diet. High protein meals several times through the day.


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## squatster

Not much food for some one over 200+lbs.
Looks good for a middle weight


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## b-boy

squatster said:


> Not much food for some one over 200+lbs.
> Looks good for a middle weight


 Lol but he is the biggest guy in the entire thread. Funny how that works.


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## Elvia1023

aon1 said:


> I have a question on sensitivity and DNP . I heard met talked about several times but not DNP.
> I'm running r at basically 20ius after 100 gram carbs meal not eating the second peak then eating another meal at the 3 hour mark and running 20ius again,I'm obviously not super sensitive, if I start dnp is this going to substantially going to increase sensitivit? I've ran DNP but not in this situation and just trying to use it in a positive manner with the slin,doubt I run more than 400 mg give or take.



DNP will increase insulin sensitivity significantly so would be useful for the purposes you mention. Why are using using humulin-r after a 100 gram carb meal? What time of day are you having this 100 gram carb meal (pre, post, random)? I would be using the slin approx 30 mins before you eat. Have you ever tested your blood glucose? I would definitely be trying to improve your senitivity so DNP could be useful when your off slin. I would also follow a low carb diet for that time too. If you do all of that be careful when trying slin again and don't just bang in 20IU first time back.



Sully said:


> Is there any use for insulin when trying to cut weight and lose bodyfat, or is it only to be used when bulking?





speeder said:


> also curious about this.. I've heard heavy hitter and a few other guys talk about getting leaner while using insulin..  would be nice to get their take as well..



It can help with fat loss but you have to be careful. Personally I think it's a waste of time using slin alone for fat loss but that doesn't mean using insulin in general is a waste. The one method someone could try would be just one dose first thing in the morning before fasted cardio. I am talking about 3iu Humulin-r and have carbs on you just incase but that dose should be fine. I would recommend adding synthetine to this stack as the insulin shuttles the l-carnitine into the muscle cells and this will be amazing for fat burning. You could do the same before weight training too and believe me it does make a difference.

Personally I wouldn't recommend frequent insulin at high doses through the day for most on here. It's simply not needed. Fact is insulin will likely make many fatter as they eat too much on it (use it with a typical bulking diet). Slin will lower the utilization of fat for energy over time (unless used with synthetine). It also inhibits lipase which breaks down fat tissue so slows fat burning when used frequently. I am not saying someone very lean could use slin like CG has and get some good weight from it as I have done it myself and many others over the years. The added fullness alone if you stay around the same bodyfat will be an illusion in itself.

Now if someone was on an effective aas cycle and following a good diet you could use slin to blow up but get lean at the same time. It's a great tool for this but I would recommend using it at specific times... basically around training and with carbs and other aids such as glutamine, creatine, l-carnitine etc. Insulin increases glucose transportation both in fat and muscle cells. Therefore many need to be careful when adding it in at random times unless they are very lean and well pretty much have a furnace for a metabolism from effective training and dieting over time (and of course genetics). 

So use it when active and lifting weights with lot's of muscle building ingredients (oral aas, aminos, carbs, creatine etc) and drive all of those nutrients into the working muscles. Then for the rest of the day follow a relatively low carb diet to keep insulin levels low and of course increase insulin sensitivity for your next shot. I think this is the best general approach for growing and gettign lean using insulin but there are 101 other ways that could work. Just don't think your average 230 pound 13% bf guy on here will blow up with lean tissue if using 100iu slin pre day with high carbs as it's not going to happen for most.


----------



## j2048b

Ok quick q about slin, say uve had ur insulin levels checked and they are pretty high, if u add slin would it take the pressure off ur pancreas and thus ur high levels would then go down or level off 

Or

are u compounding a bigger issue and will eventually cascade to more issues? 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## rAJJIN

squatster said:


> Not much food for some one over 200+lbs.
> Looks good for a middle weight



Walk into a restaurant and order 9 whole eggs.... see how they look at you.
It Must be two plates full. That is only one part of one meal.
Most "normal everyday people would be done for the rest of the day if they could even finish it.


----------



## squatster

rAJJIN said:


> Walk into a restaurant and order 9 whole eggs.... see how they look at you.
> It Must be two plates full. That is only one part of one meal.
> Most "normal everyday people would be done for the rest of the day if they could even finish it.



I will agree with you -9 whole eggs do look at you.
I would rather eat eggs- my favorite food- scrambled up with Ezekiel bread with penutbutter -yummm
Better then the rubbery dry ass chicken I cook- I suck with cooking meats.


----------



## Sandpig

rAJJIN said:


> Walk into a restaurant and order 9 whole eggs.... see how they look at you.
> It Must be two plates full. That is only one part of one meal.
> Most "normal everyday people would be done for the rest of the day if they could even finish it.



I have a place close by that makes their omelets with six whole eggs. And for the same price you normally pay for three eggs elsewhere, $10.

Most people don't even finish them.


----------



## Devenidas

j2048b said:


> Ok quick q about slin, say uve had ur insulin levels checked and they are pretty high, if u add slin would it take the pressure off ur pancreas and thus ur high levels would then go down or level off
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk



Yes to above at least according to Paulmbo. Hope that helps mate.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


----------



## Devenidas

rAJJIN said:


> Walk into a restaurant and order 9 whole eggs.... see how they look at you.
> It Must be two plates full. That is only one part of one meal.
> Most "normal everyday people would be done for the rest of the day if they could even finish it.


Raj check this out so two years ago or so i was on holidays with the Mrs and we had this breakfast included in our stay and they had poached egg and smoked salmon on the menu and loads of other shit.

for 7 day i would have 6-8 whole poached eggs with 34 mini serving plates of salmon with few toast with butter. it just happened the same lady was assigned to our table daily and she just could not believe this man could eat so many eggs and salmon ALONE. 

By the end of the week she was fucking disgusted with me. I could tell from the look in her eyes lol she must have thought what a weirdo!

I would eat that like 2.5 k cals breakfast and nothing else all day on the beach as u get shit food. Just would have beer, water, diet pepsi and a big feast at night. so 2 meals a day.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## j2048b

Devenidas said:


> Yes to above at least according to Paulmbo. Hope that helps mate.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


Thanks !!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## aon1

Elvia1023 said:


> DNP will increase insulin sensitivity significantly so would be useful for the purposes you mention. Why are using using humulin-r after a 100 gram carb meal? What time of day are you having this 100 gram carb meal (pre, post, random)? I would be using the slin approx 30 mins before you eat. Have you ever tested your blood glucose? I would definitely be trying to improve your senitivity so DNP could be useful when your off slin. I would also follow a low carb diet for that time too. If you do all of that be careful when trying slin again and don't just bang in 20IU first time back.





Thanks for the reply . I only ran it this way on morning workout days basically my first shot like I put in my log I take fasted with my growth and orals for the workout then eat breakfast 20-30 min later then @ the three hour mark I eat meal 2 then the 20iu then again the next meal then I drop carbs way back rest of days meals my knowledge on this is pretty limited but my thinking is this by eating first on my second and third meal it gives me a little time for the meal to get in the system and I skipped eating the second peak in hopes of cutting down fat by being close to empty again . Keeping fat at minimum is also my thinking with running most of my carbs in the morning around workout...as for using the r insulin its what I have easy access to and the second peak .....like I say my knowledge is pretty limited with slin .....have no doubt I know what I need to to push it safety but as for the optimal protocol I'm still learning.


----------



## Sully

Elvia1023 said:


> It can help with fat loss but you have to be careful. Personally I think it's a waste of time using slin alone for fat loss but that doesn't mean using insulin in general is a waste.



I wasn't talking about using it alone, but as a component of a cutting/dieting cycle. Mixed with some Tren, Anavar and Masteron maybe. Obviously, insulin sensitivity is low when one carries more bodyfat, but would Metformin and/or DNP be enough to keep insulin sensitivity up to make slin useful during weight loss? I really don't have any idea, that's why I'm asking. 

Someone said in another thread that insulin doesn't have any use as part of a contest prep cycle, but didn't really clarify why that is. Do any of the competitors care to lend any insight as to why this would be the case? Is there some component of insulin use that makes it counterproductive when trying to get as lean as possible?


----------



## Elvia1023

aon1 said:


> Thanks for the reply . I only ran it this way on morning workout days basically my first shot like I put in my log I take fasted with my growth and orals for the workout then eat breakfast 20-30 min later then @ the three hour mark I eat meal 2 then the 20iu then again the next meal then I drop carbs way back rest of days meals my knowledge on this is pretty limited but my thinking is this by eating first on my second and third meal it gives me a little time for the meal to get in the system and I skipped eating the second peak in hopes of cutting down fat by being close to empty again . Keeping fat at minimum is also my thinking with running most of my carbs in the morning around workout...as for using the r insulin its what I have easy access to and the second peak .....like I say my knowledge is pretty limited with slin .....have no doubt I know what I need to to push it safety but as for the optimal protocol I'm still learning.



If it's working for you then carry on. Sounds like you have a good thing going and experimenting on yourself is the best way to learn. Everyone is different so play about with things and you will find your best system. I am still figuring out slin and my body too but I don't really plan to take much in the future as I don't think it is needed for me. 



Sully said:


> I wasn't talking about using it alone, but as a component of a cutting/dieting cycle. Mixed with some Tren, Anavar and Masteron maybe. Obviously, insulin sensitivity is low when one carries more bodyfat, but would Metformin and/or DNP be enough to keep insulin sensitivity up to make slin useful during weight loss? I really don't have any idea, that's why I'm asking.
> 
> Someone said in another thread that insulin doesn't have any use as part of a contest prep cycle, but didn't really clarify why that is. Do any of the competitors care to lend any insight as to why this would be the case? Is there some component of insulin use that makes it counterproductive when trying to get as lean as possible?



I don't compete but that's simply because it can effect fat loss. People look at slin as a fat storage hormone. Even if it blunted fat loss minutely for someone in contest prep that is obviously not ideal. Although many just do what they hear/read over the years and people could use it in contest prep and get great results. Many bodybuilders load using slin (high doses) in the final stages of contest prep too. Milos Sarcev has loaded top bb's (such as Dennis Wolf) on huge doses of insulin.

People can do what they want and sure dnp and metformin could be used for those purposes. But 100% for me if anyone is not lean they should not be using slin if they want to lose bodyfat. Even if bulking the same applies and I would get lean first. 15%+ bf and slin is not a good combo. They could use small doses before meals but honestly they would be better getting down to approx 10% before adding in the likes of slin for fatloss. Even then as I posted before it's not needed. I would add slin into your cycle for increasing fullness whilst dieting (later stages). 

What is your bf now? I would recommend the basics. A low carb diet and dnp could work wonders. I was going to do the same but dnp gives me allergies so I will likely not bother


----------



## Sully

I'm not really asking for my own purposes, more out of academic curiosity about the topic and knowledge for the future. I just like to explore a topic from every angle. Especially things that I'm ignorant about.


----------



## IRONFIST

rAJJIN said:


> Walk into a restaurant and order 9 whole eggs.... see how they look at you.
> It Must be two plates full. That is only one part of one meal.
> Most "normal everyday people would be done for the rest of the day if they could even finish it.



:yeahthat: i have done this before! it is a lot of food to pound in every day. i weigh 245ish @ 5'10.


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## slide

squatster said:


> Not much food for some one over 200+lbs.
> Looks good for a middle weight



This is very similar to how I eat daily (there are some differences), but it's close...give/take. I'm definitely not a mass monster, but I have learned, probably a little late in this game, that I look/feel much better when my diet resembles that, instead forcing a shit-ton of food down my throat. 

Again, this (similar) is what has worked and is working for me...

-s


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## Elvia1023

You guys obviously don't know this guy 


50 RAW EGGS IN 15 SECONDS - GUY EATS DRINKS CHUGS SWALLOWS THEM ALL - YouTube


----------



## AnaSCI

:wtf:That's a LOT of eggs


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## rAJJIN

Lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pesty4077

I am getting a stomach ache just looking that that video.


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## Marky boy

Need this topic back on track. Still interested in how some folk run it


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## Sandpig

Marky boy said:


> Need this topic back on track. Still interested in how some folk run it


Yea back on topic.

Ok I've been running R preworkout in the am using mostly sugar in the form of Gatorade over the course of 2.5 hours.
I've not had any problems 

Yesterday I used 12 iu's at lunch. I took in about 130 grams of carbs mainly in the form of oats.
I ate them rather quickly and then went right back to work.
About ten minutes after eating I went hypo.
I ate a couple bananas and drank Gatorade.  It went away.

So what went wrong?

Was it the type of carb?
The speed at which I consumed them?
Or maybe a combo of both?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Marky boy

Sandpig said:


> Yea back on topic.
> 
> Ok I've been running R preworkout in the am using mostly sugar in the form of Gatorade over the course of 2.5 hours.
> I've not had any problems
> 
> Yesterday I used 12 iu's at lunch. I took in about 130 grams of carbs mainly in the form of oats.
> I ate them rather quickly and then went right back to work.
> About ten minutes after eating I went hypo.
> I ate a couple bananas and drank Gatorade.  It went away.
> 
> So what went wrong?
> 
> Was it the type of carb?
> The speed at which I consumed them?
> Or maybe a combo of both?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



I think because you had oats and they are slow digesting this could be why you went hypo as they weren't quick enough to digest down. 

I would split the carbs. Maybe have 40 grams from sugar and then say 80g from oats


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## JWBH

For those that are running humulin r, do you inject IM? Does it react closer to log when injected IM? I've never used log before btw.

I used to inject R IM, but it's been about 3, maybe 4 years, since I've used it for bulking, I've mainly been using small amount of units to put me into keto and thats it. Sadly I didn't keep notes of the timing of it when I looked through my logbook when I used it as a bulker.

But if you do inject it IM, since it speeds up the process, do you see it closer to being like log?  Or is it still closer to it's regular release times?

Any input?


----------



## speeder

*Concreteguy- Your Lantus post over on PM*

Concreteguy, 

I saw you posted this on PM in the 90's thread:

*"Incredible conditioning can be achieved using the correct amounts of Lantus 24 hour insulin, balanced against an >>almost<< keto diet and bcaa's. For the pro's there are zero trade offs when getting absolutely ripped to the bone. You can literally diet into a show if you know how to do this. The onset of Lantus is so slow it allows your body to process proteins into carbohydrates. 

Lantus + Anadrol, S-drol are wonderful loading components. These alone will make guys super human looking with skin stretching fullness.

But what do I know....lol"


CG*


Would you be willing to go more into this? I know I'm far from the only guy here who would be very interested to hear your take on it..
thanks,


----------



## squatster

How often does Lantos spike in your system?


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## K1

*I had a Brilliant idea*

This thread has the potential to be very good!

I have asked tenny to come over and fill in on answering questions while CG is on vacation (since it is tenny's diet layout that the slin protocol will be working with)


----------



## Marky boy

I will post a body pic, but it's just upper body from holiday. Got into reasonble shape for a holiday with my gf. 

Was looking to use slin as I got down to a leaning shape so I am looking to add some decent quality lean mass over the next 6 months before I diet down for another holiday. 

Shame this thread died out as I did actually want to learn guys ways of using it to get good lean mass. unfortunately I can't afford to hire a coach at the moment so have to go solo.


----------



## K1

**I moved your post here Marky Boy (slin topic):

Very good shape! Hopefully Concreteguy or any other member (tenny, bboy, MassiveG, etc - with slin experience) will chime in to continue the discussion...Would be great to see you run a log along with one of these guy's assistance throughout the process! You have the shape to morph massively with slin from what I've seen/heard.

I'd definitely be right here watching...Getting the itch to run the same protocol


----------



## Marky boy

K1 said:


> **I moved your post here Marky Boy (slin topic):
> 
> Very good shape! Hopefully Concreteguy or any other member (tenny, bboy, MassiveG, etc - with slin experience) will chime in to continue the discussion...Would be great to see you run a log along with one of these guy's assistance throughout the process! You have the shape to morph massively with slin from what I've seen/heard.
> 
> I'd definitely be right here watching...Getting the itch to run the same protocol



Thanks man, would consider logging it also! Currently dropped to a cruise dosage so would be fresh to start back up a cycle too. Bloods have just been done also! Need to stay on top of the health!

As you said hopefully guys chime in with their experience


----------



## b-boy

a couple of goals for your insulin run

1. put on as much lean tissue while keeping adipose storage down
2. stay as insulin sensitive as possible

why I like chad nicholls use of slin only a few days per week with big body parts like legs and back days.


----------



## Marky boy

b-boy said:


> a couple of goals for your insulin run
> 
> 1. put on as much lean tissue while keeping adipose storage down
> 2. stay as insulin sensitive as possible
> 
> why I like chad nicholls use of slin only a few days per week with big body parts like legs and back days.



Would you recommend running something like metformin or berberine on days off?


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## IRONFIST

youre in great shape. ill be following your log closely!


----------



## b-boy

Marky boy said:


> Would you recommend running something like metformin or berberine on days off?


 YES!! :lightbulb:


----------



## AGGRO

I have a question that I have seen a few guys ask in other threads.

How do you keep from getting that hypo feeling. Yes I know the short answer is 'EAT'. That is where you can get yourself in trouble though. I saw where K1 and rAJJIN mentioned going hypo and having to eat their way out of it. I would think if they continued down that path without being able to get that timing down, they would have either dropped at some point or put on a lot of fat?

So the question would be - how would one know the amounts of food, slin and timing to keep from having those issues? Is it just experimenting with all of them to see what works for you?


----------



## tenny

listen.....slin is not as scary or as confusing as everyone thinks....

there is NO right way and NO wrong way to use it....

there is NO MAGIC way....

if you start going hypo, you will feel it, don't panic...but don't wait
either....get some sugar inside you as fast as possible...

a few protocols "people" utilize are this...
(amounts will vary, as some are more sensitive)

-Xamount ui pre wo, with pre workout meal. (staying lean/ dieting)
-Xamount ui twice daily with your largest meals, wo days only. (mass gaining)
-Xamount ui post wo, with post meal, (depending on size of meal
can be used while dieting or mass phase)....

this is just a few SAFER protocols you can try....see what you like...

i like 6 to 8iu pre training....insane pumps...and stays active if you
can get that post training meal in fast enough...

i cant stand this people that complicate shit.....ITS NOT COMPLICATED


----------



## tenny

i will reiterate and say timing of all this it what needs
the most attention.....

the diet doesn't matter....its just food....no special way to eat
food....:lightbulb:

just get your timing down, with admin. and the meals....
that's the hardest part of it....and it aint that hard...


----------



## Concreteguy

Does anyone of our experts know what the pro's are really doing to get so huge. It would seam that everyone is of the mind that there is nothing new to talk about when it comes to insulin but no one has mentioned what it is, these REALLY big guys are doing.
 Why is that? It's out there and no big secret.

 What is it worth to you none experts to learn how to get bigger than you could ever get? You would be at a ridiculously low level of risk compared to anything you have read in this thread and you could do this running a fraction of the gear you would expect to have to run. It's the advice that absolutely none of the boyz in the know want out of the bag. It's the advice that some of us here don't deserve to even have. 

 The shame of it is it's the same hand full of guys that will jump on in with the "I wouldn't ever do this because it's bad for you insulin sensitivity", "I would never do this because I thought about it and figured it all out in my mind and it won't work". It's the single reason over 80% of these new pro's blow up as soon as they get their card. Someone whispers in there ear because they became a member of the club. 

 Can any of our experts share this with the members? The reason I ask is if I'm going to dump the bucket on something that can single handedly pound muscle on every one of you and piss off many in the industry, I want to take complete responsibility for it. The information I'm prepared to let out isn't mine. I was told this by a source that can't be questioned. This information isn't about being healthy or happy or feeling just right as your walking down the street. It's extreme muscle building and there is a tax to be paid on everything. I can also explain ways to govern this down to the real world for guys that want to just have fun and be fucking jacked out the ass. 

 The problem is with all the chefs in the kitchen the pizza just ain't going to get cooked. 

 I walked away from this because it became something I wanted no parts of. I'm here to share and have fun. God knows I have been around the block a few times. I have been answering many of your PMs and will continue if the need to leave comes up again. But most important K1 has assured me that will not happen again. Nore will I reach over the fence in the other direction either.

 So my question stands. Does any of our experts here know what I'm talking about and would like to share?

  CG


----------



## Racepicks

tenny said:


> i will reiterate and say timing of all this it what needs
> the most attention.....
> 
> the diet doesn't matter....its just food....no special way to eat
> food....:lightbulb:
> 
> just get your timing down, with admin. and the meals....
> that's the hardest part of it....and it aint that hard...



When I ran slin, I got so fuckin' tired afterward.  I tried to eat 10 grams of Carbohydrates for every iu of slin. but had to fight like a bastard to stay awake.  My only goal at that point was to not fall asleep!  What did I do wrong?  I'm thinking back and I think I ate like a cup of rice and chicken breast, but when I began to want to sleep I swallowed one of those glucose jelly packs, that made me hold off on the sleep.

I know the underlining problem is that I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, but maybe the other members who are considering Slin would benefit from my stupidity.


----------



## tenny

Racepicks said:


> When I ran slin, I got so fuckin' tired afterward.  I tried to eat 10 grams of Carbohydrates for every iu of slin. but had to fight like a bastard to stay awake.  My only goal at that point was to not fall asleep!  What did I do wrong?  I'm thinking back and I think I ate like a cup of rice and chicken breast, but when I began to want to sleep I swallowed one of those glucose jelly packs, that made me hold off on the sleep.
> 
> I know the underlining problem is that I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, but maybe the other members who are considering Slin would benefit from my stupidity.



LOL....yup

its a major side for some....

normally happens after you go hypo or slightly hypo, and come out..

sleepy time comes....

could be a sign you took alittle too much


----------



## K1

Concreteguy said:


> Does anyone of our experts know what the pro's are really doing to get so huge. It would seam that everyone is of the mind that there is nothing new to talk about when it comes to insulin but no one has mentioned what it is, these REALLY big guys are doing.
> Why is that? It's out there and no big secret.
> 
> What is it worth to you none experts to learn how to get bigger than you could ever get? You would be at a ridiculously low level of risk compared to anything you have read in this thread and you could do this running a fraction of the gear you would expect to have to run. It's the advice that absolutely none of the boyz in the know want out of the bag. It's the advice that some of us here don't deserve to even have.
> 
> The shame of it is it's the same hand full of guys that will jump on in with the "I wouldn't ever do this because it's bad for you insulin sensitivity", "I would never do this because I thought about it and figured it all out in my mind and it won't work". It's the single reason over 80% of these new pro's blow up as soon as they get their card. Someone whispers in there ear because they became a member of the club.
> 
> Can any of our experts share this with the members? The reason I ask is if I'm going to dump the bucket on something that can single handedly pound muscle on every one of you and piss off many in the industry, I want to take complete responsibility for it. The information I'm prepared to let out isn't mine. I was told this by a source that can't be questioned. This information isn't about being healthy or happy or feeling just right as your walking down the street. It's extreme muscle building and there is a tax to be paid on everything. I can also explain ways to govern this down to the real world for guys that want to just have fun and be fucking jacked out the ass.
> 
> The problem is with all the chefs in the kitchen the pizza just ain't going to get cooked.
> 
> I walked away from this because it became something I wanted no parts of. I'm here to share and have fun. God knows I have been around the block a few times. I have been answering many of your PMs and will continue if the need to leave comes up again. But most important K1 has assured me that will not happen again. Nore will I reach over the fence in the other direction either.
> 
> So my question stands. Does any of our experts here know what I'm talking about and would like to share?
> 
> CG



I would say it must have something to do with the drugs but could be way off base?! If it is that, I guess I can only wish someone would have told me many years ago...Too broken now for anything else

If it's legit, we got Markyboy here for the test subject...Dude has the base to build quality mass on


----------



## squatster

Great to see you Back ConcreteGuy.
I can't wait to try insulin this fall.


----------



## Sandpig

Welcome back CG!


----------



## speeder

tenny said:


> listen.....slin is not as scary or as confusing as everyone thinks....
> 
> there is NO right way and NO wrong way to use it....
> 
> there is NO MAGIC way....
> 
> if you start going hypo, you will feel it, don't panic...but don't wait
> either....get some sugar inside you as fast as possible...
> 
> a few protocols "people" utilize are this...
> (amounts will vary, as some are more sensitive)
> 
> -Xamount ui pre wo, with pre workout meal. (staying lean/ dieting)
> -Xamount ui twice daily with your largest meals, wo days only. (mass gaining)
> -Xamount ui post wo, with post meal, (depending on size of meal
> can be used while dieting or mass phase)....
> 
> this is just a few SAFER protocols you can try....see what you like...
> 
> *i like 6 to 8iu pre training....insane pumps...and stays active if you
> can get that post training meal in fast enough*...
> 
> i cant stand this people that complicate shit.....ITS NOT COMPLICATED



tenny, don't crucify me, as I'm not complicating this, lol but which slin do you prefer to  use pre-training?  R or Log?


----------



## tenny

speeder said:


> tenny, don't crucify me, as I'm not complicating this, lol but which slin do you prefer to  use pre-training?  R or Log?



R is much safer.....easier....once you get your timing down
with R its no fail...

Log presents too much risk (for me)...some like it better...
some like 0 to 60 2.3 secs......I like to ride in comfort...

and like I said....if you quickly get that second meal in post
training....its almost a perfect combo...

15 years ago or so I could do 20 to 25iu Log no problem...
but would do POST training...I did not like the idea of the slin
to dictate my workouts...duration, ect....I found myself constantly
worrying about getting out of the gym and eating....basically kept
me in fear pinned Log pre wo.....post worked better for me....


----------



## Sandpig

Ok so I've used R before and now I'm running it again.

I've pretty much got my protocol down. Especially around the workout.

Never had a problem until yesterday and again today.

Seems like I'm getting that second R spike later than I have in the past. About 3.5 hours.
And even though I've had plenty of carbs in me over the previous three hours, I am going hypo.

I consume my carbs over a 2.5 hour window and that has always worked until now.

Could there be a reason why this has changed?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## tenny

Sandpig said:


> Ok so I've used R before and now I'm running it again.
> 
> I've pretty much got my protocol down. Especially around the workout.
> 
> Never had a problem until yesterday and again today.
> 
> Seems like I'm getting that second R spike later than I have in the past. About 3.5 hours.
> And even though I've had plenty of carbs in me over the previous three hours, I am going hypo.
> 
> I consume my carbs over a 2.5 hour window and that has always worked until now.
> 
> Could there be a reason why this has changed?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk




yep....its gonna change on you from time to time.....

how much are you taking...???
and how long before training...???
and when is the pre meal introduced...??


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## tenny

pre train slin meal...


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## Sandpig

15 iu
Following the Mike Arnold protocol

45 minutes before training 

The first meal/drink is about 20 minutes after the injection 

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## tenny

Sandpig said:


> 15 iu
> Following the Mike Arnold protocol
> 
> 45 minutes before training
> 
> The first meal/drink is about 20 minutes after the injection
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



I would PM Mike then....if you follow him


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## IRONFIST

thread is getting good again. thanks for sharing the info guys!!!

tenny what is that meal? cant tell if its meatloaf or french toast or something else lol?


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## tenny

IRONFIST said:


> thread is getting good again. thanks for sharing the info guys!!!
> 
> tenny what is that meal? cant tell if its meatloaf or french toast or something else lol?



LOL.....freaaaaaanch toast

:action-smiley-030:

6 whole eggs in those bad boys though


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## speeder

Concreteguy said:


> Does anyone of our experts know what the pro's are really doing to get so huge. It would seam that everyone is of the mind that there is nothing new to talk about when it comes to insulin but no one has mentioned what it is, these REALLY big guys are doing.
> Why is that? It's out there and no big secret.
> 
> What is it worth to you none experts to learn how to get bigger than you could ever get? You would be at a ridiculously low level of risk compared to anything you have read in this thread and you could do this running a fraction of the gear you would expect to have to run. It's the advice that absolutely none of the boyz in the know want out of the bag. It's the advice that some of us here don't deserve to even have.
> 
> The shame of it is it's the same hand full of guys that will jump on in with the "I wouldn't ever do this because it's bad for you insulin sensitivity", "I would never do this because I thought about it and figured it all out in my mind and it won't work". It's the single reason over 80% of these new pro's blow up as soon as they get their card. Someone whispers in there ear because they became a member of the club.
> 
> Can any of our experts share this with the members? The reason I ask is if I'm going to dump the bucket on something that can single handedly pound muscle on every one of you and piss off many in the industry, I want to take complete responsibility for it. The information I'm prepared to let out isn't mine. I was told this by a source that can't be questioned. This information isn't about being healthy or happy or feeling just right as your walking down the street. It's extreme muscle building and there is a tax to be paid on everything. I can also explain ways to govern this down to the real world for guys that want to just have fun and be fucking jacked out the ass.
> 
> The problem is with all the chefs in the kitchen the pizza just ain't going to get cooked.
> 
> I walked away from this because it became something I wanted no parts of. I'm here to share and have fun. God knows I have been around the block a few times. I have been answering many of your PMs and will continue if the need to leave comes up again. But most important K1 has assured me that will not happen again. Nore will I reach over the fence in the other direction either.
> 
> So my question stands. Does any of our experts here know what I'm talking about and would like to share?
> 
> CG



CG, am still interested in what you're referring to here..  

guys please don't fight lol  us younger guys to this game love you all!


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## speeder

tenny said:


> LOL.....freaaaaaanch toast
> 
> :action-smiley-030:
> 
> 6 whole eggs in those bad boys though



tenny, I admittedly have never used insulin and am not super well-versed with it, and really appreciate you vets sharing your knowledge about this.

You made your pre-training French toast meal with 6 whole eggs, which is roughly 30g of fat or so.

So all these years guys who have been saying keep dietary fat intake as low as possible while slin is active, you don't buy that?


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## tenny

speeder said:


> tenny, I admittedly have never used insulin and am not super well-versed with it, and really appreciate you vets sharing your knowledge about this.
> 
> You made your pre-training French toast meal with 6 whole eggs, which is roughly 30g of fat or so.
> 
> So all these years guys who have been saying keep dietary fat intake as low as possible while slin is active, you don't buy that?



lol....that is pretty low....

no different than a couple spoons of PB....
or a couple spoons of evoo in your shake...

contest dieting.....I may lower that a bit....
but then again, I would use slin for precontest dieting..

:action-smiley-044:


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## Sandpig

tenny said:


> LOL.....freaaaaaanch toast
> 
> :action-smiley-030:
> 
> 6 whole eggs in those bad boys though


So what you eat before pinning plays a part in covering your carb needs?

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## Sandpig

speeder said:


> tenny, I admittedly have never used insulin and am not super well-versed with it, and really appreciate you vets sharing your knowledge about this.
> 
> You made your pre-training French toast meal with 6 whole eggs, which is roughly 30g of fat or so.
> 
> So all these years guys who have been saying keep dietary fat intake as low as possible while slin is active, you don't buy that?


Palumbo admits that he was the one who mistakingly started the no fat rumor.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## tenny

Sandpig said:


> So what you eat before pinning plays a part in covering your carb needs?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



yes sir.....

my post meal was 1 pound of berries and 5 egg whites, with
8oz OJ....now normally I take that 45 minutes after the pre meal...
but today I didn't wait for this meal....and went straight to the gym..
and the shake post....which works just as well...

the only real difference with R and Log is the on set....
both last relatively the same.....6 to 8 vs 10 to 12....
but its the onset....10 to 15 minutes vs 45 to a hour...

big difference in the speed in that sense

:action-smiley-041:


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## Sandpig

Big thanks 

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## speeder

speeder said:


> Concreteguy,
> 
> I saw you posted this on PM in the 90's thread:
> 
> *"Incredible conditioning can be achieved using the correct amounts of Lantus 24 hour insulin, balanced against an >>almost<< keto diet and bcaa's. For the pro's there are zero trade offs when getting absolutely ripped to the bone. You can literally diet into a show if you know how to do this. The onset of Lantus is so slow it allows your body to process proteins into carbohydrates.
> 
> Lantus + Anadrol, S-drol are wonderful loading components. These alone will make guys super human looking with skin stretching fullness.
> 
> But what do I know....lol"
> 
> 
> CG*
> 
> 
> Would you be willing to go more into this? I know I'm far from the only guy here who would be very interested to hear your take on it..
> thanks,



CG, see, Tenny and you both agree on something (OJ!) lol...  

also, when you get a chance, you made a post about lantus over at PM, and I was wondering if you would go into more depth on it.  I quoted it above.


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## tenny

speeder said:


> CG, see, Tenny and you both agree on something (OJ!) lol...
> 
> also, when you get a chance, you made a post about lantus over at PM, and I was wondering if you would go into more depth on it.  I quoted it above.



only difference with lantus....is that's its a 24 slin....

but the onset is too unpredictable.....anywhere from 30 mins
to 4 hours....

not the kind of roulette I wanna play...

:action-smiley-060:


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## speeder

tenny said:


> only difference with lantus....is that's its a 24 slin....
> 
> but the onset is too unpredictable.....anywhere from 30 mins
> to 4 hours....
> 
> not the kind of roulette I wanna play...
> 
> :action-smiley-060:



thanks,

 didn't realize the onset varied so much with lantus.. 

however, since it's so long-acting, wouldn't the onset not be too "strong" ?  Or is it when it comes to slin, when it hits you, it hits you, regardless of the type?


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## K1

Thread is back on track...Markyboy, make sure you're taking notes man, want to see a log w/pics coming from you here soon


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## tenny

speeder said:


> thanks,
> 
> didn't realize the onset varied so much with lantus..
> 
> however, since it's so long-acting, wouldn't the onset not be too "strong" ?  Or is it when it comes to slin, when it hits you, it hits you, regardless of the type?



well it would def. depend on how much your doing no...????

try it....see what happens.....who knows.

slin don't do the same thing in everyone....(experiences may vary)

it may be your holy grail....

I personally do not like any surprises....im assuming it was made
for extreme diabetic purposes, where you need constant levels
combated....

i would imagine also....if used daily humL or Glargine will suppress
more than a few things....nothing popping more pills PROBABLY
couldn't fix....but if that's what people want and more likely NEED
to do....then go for it...

:action-smiley-033:


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## TeknoViking

I had very nice results using Mike Arnolds protocol. It has evolved over the years. So try to find his most recent posting on it. I love pre workout slin, but I must admit I am was not even close to reaching me genetic potential when I started it LOL. I was running it everyday I worked out. 30mg superdrol with 700mg test prop for 4 weeks with the slin and you see some major fucken changes. My schedule was 3 days on 1 day off DC type training for 4 weeks then I took a three week break from slin dropped the test to 200mg and no sdrol but kept the same training plan. Most days I did 12 sets max in the 6-8 rep range keeping a workout log and progressively increasing the weight. 12ius pre workout and it worked great.

Hell I even ran the same protocol while running dnp and had great results. You have to find what works best for you. For me Karbolyn was much better pre and intra then HBCD. I couldn't get the timing down with the HBCD. Make sure you do cardio sometime during the week to keep the insulin sensitivity good.

I have never used anything but r so I can't comment on that. That is what Mike recommends though for his protocals.


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## Marshall

Arnold's protocol is great imo for someone who wants to just take advantage of using insulin for it's benefits, not trying to get IFBB size. It is dirt cheap and works very well. I started with basskillers protocol using log post training and changed over seamlessly to Arnold's. They are very similar imo, only I prefer Arnold's pre-workout with R to post workout with log by far. Plus R is easy OTC.

Sandpig I wouldn't worry about fatigue sometimes if you have enough carbs in you for the dosage you took pre-workout. I take short naps every once in awhile after my pwo meal, it's not hypo or going hypo by any stretch, it's simply just fatigue from a good workout and lots of calories. I train HIT style (Mentzer-McGuff) every 4 or 5 days, so the protocol is great with that, never have to worry about days on/days off, weeks on/weeks off etc...can take advantage of it every workout day. I usually use in the a.m. and then pre-workout.

Agree with what was said about diet, I think tenny posted, no need to micro manage it, have some good whole foods and fats, never made an ounce of difference to me over the years.


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## Sandpig

TeknoViking said:


> . For me Karbolyn was much better pre and intra then HBCD. I couldn't get the timing down with the HBCD. .



I've just been using Gatorade. Supposedly doesn't empty as fast as Karbolyn and HBCD.

I PM'd Mike and he told me the same thing Tenny did. I'm going through all my carbs and then BG levels drop too much before the slin wears off.

I'm going to add a whole food meal immediately post workout.


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## Marky boy

Would be good to see Mike over here and have his input


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## Sandpig

So I kept the pre and intra drinks the same today but then post was a protein shake an all you can eat pancakes at Denny's

I couldn't get too crazy cause I had to go to work after that.

Worked perfectly 

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## ketsugo

Concreteguy said:


> OK. So that we don't have the drama, I'm going to recommend a very tame version of an "Eat when your hungry" Boosted with slin program.  I would start by contacting Tenny and ask him for his diet plan. This will cost a few bucks (deservingly so) because that's what he does for a living. This will work with any diet so don't be concerned about it being a "slin" diet.
> 
> -I would take that complete diet plan and brake down the carbs in each meal.
> 
> - If for some reason any of these meals don't have at least 100 carbs per meal they wont be sufficient to use them effectively. If your in the school of thought that you should just pin enough to cover the carbs any way, go right ahead.<----But I think your spitting in the ocean playing games like that.
> 
> - I would assume that it takes 10 carbohydrate to cover each and ever iu of Humalog you inject.
> 
> -I would inject 10iu of Humalog just before eating any of these meals.
> 
> - I would also make sure your hungry a minimum of four times a day.
> 
> -If your hungry inside the 1 hour window before bed time. I would eat a full pack of oat meal cookies  after your meal and before bed.
> 
> - while your doing this I would recommend carrying a quart of OJ with you. You would only drink this if you start to feel strange in any way.
> 
> 
> 
> Understanding insulin and "can it kill you"? The answer is yes.
> 
> But so can falling over on a butter knife. there is no way 10 iu can or would kill you after consuming a meal with carbs to cover the iu's pinned. It's a wild stretch entertaining 10iu of Humalog killing you on an absolutely empty stumic as well. Sure you would go for a hell of a hypo ride but it's not going to kill you or put you in a comma. Get that silly shit out of your head. lol  It just isn't going to happen.
> 
> -Will it make me diabetic? NO Jumping in and out of use will not make you diabetic.
> 
> _can it play hell on your insulin sensitivity? Yes, the answer is taking metformin 1000mgs a day and a few other things that are saples in insulin receptor promotion.
> 
> How would I know if I was going hypoglycemic?
> 
> Everyone gets hit a little different. But I would look for,
> 
> -tingling of the upper lip or tongue
> 
> -A sudden burst of hunger accompanied by extreme thirst
> 
> -Suddenly getting cold and completely loosing your pump
> 
> -a strange feeling you can't put your finger on
> 
> -Getting a narrow field of vision that's often in black and white.
> 
> -If this happens and your driving? Stop the car and drink the OJ. DO NOT start up again until your symptoms have passed.
> 
> -Getting any of these symptoms or anything else that just not the norm signals you it's time to immediately drink your quart of OJ.
> 
> There are many more but from my experience it is these players that normally pop up when it happens. This is why you have your QUART of OJ on you. OJ is your "get out of jail free card".
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend before anyone gets started using slin they do this.
> 
> 
> 
> In the comfort of your home with a friend, on an empty stomach, pin 5iu Humalog. Watch the clock and about twenty minutes in you will feel a twang of "something isn't right with me" as you sit there you will start to experience the onset of going hypo. What do you do???? Drink your full quart of OJ and relax. It will take up to five minutes for the OJ to reverse your symptoms but it will and you will be fine. While your waiting for the OJ to neutralize your symptoms tell your friend exactly what your feeling and have them write it down. Most guys I know in the game always get the same symptoms in the same order. So write them down and this will have to be carried in the back of your mind always. After you do this and see how the OJ works you will understand how important it is. You may never need it witch is a good thing. But it's a good thing to have it if you do. But if your carful about your carbs vse your iu's it just will never happen. But the truth is everyone I know that's in the game and uses it has gone hypo and that's all it was. A blip on the radar.
> 
> 
> 
> Lets just start with this and I'll answer any questions you may have.
> 
> 
> 
> One more thing. I don't do this for a living. I'm a member here and trying to help out the guys that want to know. That's it. If ANYONE has a better way to do it or wants to inject into this with constructive thought please do.
> 
> 
> 
> Side note: doing less than these amounts will yield next to zero gains and would be questionable if it's even worth doing. as it is this is a small amount but it will bring positive responses building muscle.
> 
> 
> 
> CG





Awesome post


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## ketsugo

squatster said:


> Silly queation- are there people that should never do insulin?
> Should we be watching our sugars?
> I love candy- I eat candy getting ready for shows? Me bad- i know





Don’t confuse the issues related to having sweet tooth with using s compound that assimilation of sugar/ glucose into glycogen that fills muscle cells . That’s why those who try to push Keto diets on insulin miss the boat.  Insulin is the most anabolic substance


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## Bakunin

Wow what a thread!

I have done prewo slin before.

I want to do pre and post run, how would you time hgh into that? Does it matter much or just take it. Im thinking mostly partitioning wise!


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## Edwina

So you recommend slin with every single meal of the day? and how long would you typically run a cycle of slin like this?


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## ldbruffey

The amount per iu in terms of carbs is totally person dependent. I’m someone that sticks to 15-17 g per iu. While others are 6-8. All based on sensitivity 


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