# Finishing cut with Lantus. 19 days left!



## JITB (Mar 14, 2018)

19 Days left on cut (25lbs down). Decided to experiment with Lantus. If it works out I have a 10 week bulk ahead of me. Going to Jamaica afterwards. 

Have HRT appointment at EOM. Because of which I'm only on 100 mg of cyp and 350 tren A. Will be greatly ramping up afterwards. 

Starting at 25 IUs of Lantus. Will be ramping up gradually due to low calories (1700) from cut. 2 IUs of GH ed. 

Lots of cardio- yuck!

Goal- want to grow into vacation trip.

Stats- 59 yrs, 195. 12% BF (scale).

Any help or advise would be appreciated!

Shout out to CG for thinking out of the box!


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## squatster (Mar 14, 2018)

Good too see you posting brotha
You have been a member for a while now
Hope to see you posting more
I want too see Howe you don on your lantus - We need some detailed along the way


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## G-FLUX (Mar 14, 2018)

Best of luck!

Insulin has its place year round in a surplus or deficit IMHO.

Combined with GH and you can really time things to increase fat loss and anabolism quite well!


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## JITB (Mar 14, 2018)

G-FLUX said:


> Best of luck!
> 
> Insulin has its place year round in a surplus or deficit IMHO.
> 
> Combined with GH and you can really time things to increase fat loss and anabolism quite well!



I agree. I'd go as far as to say that people shouldn't use insulin to bulk until they learn to cut with it first.


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## JITB (Mar 14, 2018)

squatster said:


> Good too see you posting brotha
> You have been a member for a while now
> Hope to see you posting more
> I want too see Howe you don on your lantus - We need some detailed along the way


Details definitely will follow. Thoughts are that I can switch to a bulk from this cut seamlessly if I'm liking what I'm seeing.


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## JITB (Mar 14, 2018)

It's been so long (15+ years) since I've posted a thread about me specifically that I've left out a key component. 

Doing this keto. Normally I would run keto 6 on, 1 carb up but this run is so short I will try to go straight through with maybe a sanity meal thrown in.


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## G-FLUX (Mar 14, 2018)

JITB said:


> I agree. I'd go as far as to say that people shouldn't use insulin to bulk until they learn to cut with it first.



agreed!


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## AGGRO (Mar 16, 2018)

What do you usually eat each day? Curious what those 1700 cals are made up of.


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## JITB (Mar 16, 2018)

Day one went great. 25 IUs of Lantus, no hypo feelings at all. 

Day two- not so good. Woke up, took BS- 104 (good for me). Pinned GH, went to gym. Did Chest, fasted cardio 45 minutes. Headed home. Should have taken BS again. Instead pinned 30 IUs of Lantus. Ended up talking to wife about our home improvements- mistake. Feeling Hypo. Drank shake with 50g hydro and 10g of coconut fat. 

Continued to go hypo. Had Lemon Heads- continued to go hypo. Added Corn Chex- continued down the hypo trail. Had Glutamine. Still hypo. Added 75g  Hydro Whey shake. Began to stable out. Finally felt better at dinner where I had 5 eggs. Concluded day with egg white (few carbs- flavored) and Whey Isolate. 

Conclusion- check blood sugar after gym. I may have to change to a TKD. 

Final news is good. Had a good chest workout. Oh, haven't weighed in a few days- now 192. 

One more good thing- still alive and well (wife was with me all day). 

We'll see what tomorrow brings. Pinned Lantus about 9:00am and it's currently 11:00pm here. So 14 hours in but felt fine since 5:00pm.


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## JITB (Mar 16, 2018)

AGGRO said:


> What do you usually eat each day? Curious what those 1700 cals are made up of.



I'm a big shake guy. Don't believe they're not real food. Love eggs- both whole and whites. Typically for "real" food, grilled steak, ground sirloin, grilled chicken, eggs or pork. I also put cheese on anything I can for more variety. Guess I live to close to the WI border!

Fiber supplement. Own a squatty potty!


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2018)

I will be following. You will have to be careful with the fasted training. That could throw you off. Next time you will have to make sure you eat straight after you pin the lantus and not wait. If keto I would be drinking amino shakes through the day even before you feel any sign of hypo. Once you feel hypo it is hard to get back especially with no carbs. I recommend a constant supply of protein through the day.


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## JITB (Mar 16, 2018)

Viking said:


> I will be following. You will have to be careful with the fasted training. That could throw you off. Next time you will have to make sure you eat straight after you pin the lantus and not wait. If keto I would be drinking amino shakes through the day even before you feel any sign of hypo. Once you feel hypo it is hard to get back especially with no carbs. I recommend a constant supply of protein through the day.



Agreed. Will let you know how it goes today. Cardio only today.


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## Concreteguy (Mar 16, 2018)

JITB said:


> Day one went great. 25 IUs of Lantus, no hypo feelings at all.
> 
> Day two- not so good. Woke up, took BS- 104 (good for me). Pinned GH, went to gym. Did Chest, fasted cardio 45 minutes. Headed home. Should have taken BS again. Instead pinned 30 IUs of Lantus. Ended up talking to wife about our home improvements- mistake. Feeling Hypo. Drank shake with 50g hydro and 10g of coconut fat.
> 
> ...




Friend , you have to understand what your doing using insulin in a state of ketosis. BEFORE GOING TO THE GYM.  (((YOU MUST))) drink 30grams of EAA's, 20 grams Glutamine and then add what ever else you need to add personally. THE PROTEIN IS YOUR CARBS. THE PROTEIN IS YOUR YELLOW HEADS. The act of glucogenisous,<--spelling, is what converts these proteins to carbs in ketosis.
 Prepare to fail or prepare to succeed. If you have any questions you want answered but don't want to post because your shy, PM me bro. If your going to do this lets not make me look like dog shit lol. People have a way of just remembering the Lantus/Keto didn't work and totally forget how it all went down. Please don't misunderstand to tone of this. I just want you to do well and look like a  brick shit house on vacation bro. Now "gither done!"


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## JITB (Mar 16, 2018)

Hear you loud and clear CG! Thanks (sincerely) for your input.

Today's update will follow shortly.


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## JITB (Mar 17, 2018)

Today's almost over and it's been a good day. Took BS (113), pinned GH and headed for gym for fasted cardio. 45 minutes on bike. Returned home and took BS again- 135. BS a little high probably due to yesterday's carbs and GH.

Pinned 30 IUs of Lantus again (was going to lower it, but decided not to after BS number). Had a protein only shake with 1 part egg whites, 1 part hydro and 1 part Iso-whey. Picked up some emergency OJ to keep in car- didn't need it and drove 45 minutes to client. 

2 naked burgers for lunch, came home to sausage, egg and cheese scramble.  Feeling absolutely fine. Going to end the night with a couple cinnamon pills and 500 Metformin. Also about 40 EAA's. 

Didn't eat many meals today but I feel between the burgers and the scramble I got my calories in. I'll repeat today's steps tomorrow and see what my BS is before pinning Lantus again.

Also plan to keep something bedside - just-in-case. Once bitten, twice shy!


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## SURGE (Mar 17, 2018)

Following. If you are worried about going hypo should you be using metformin and cinnamon when lantus is still active? I would think staying keto would be good enough for that.


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## JITB (Mar 17, 2018)

SURGE said:


> Following. If you are worried about going hypo should you be using metformin and cinnamon when lantus is still active? I would think staying keto would be good enough for that.


This is where the debate comes in. I don't believe either Metformin or cinnamon directly lower blood sugar. Instead I believe they recharge the cells to except insulin. Thus you can use less insulin to accomplish the same vs. a poor receptive environment. 

This means your body doesn't have to over produce insulin naturally or you can use less insulin via injection. 

Used both tonight because I wasn't happy about this mornings BS numbers. Tomorrow may be different.


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## odin (Mar 18, 2018)

JITB said:


> This is where the debate comes in. I don't believe either Metformin or cinnamon directly lower blood sugar. Instead I believe they recharge the cells to except insulin. Thus you can use less insulin to accomplish the same vs. a poor receptive environment.
> 
> This means your body doesn't have to over produce insulin naturally or you can use less insulin via injection.
> 
> Used both tonight because I wasn't happy about this mornings BS numbers. Tomorrow may be different.



Not surge and I agree with you about not lowering blood sugar but even if that is the case surely his post still applies? You already have gone hypo and have had to use sugar to get out of it. Wouldn't you be better getting used to your lantus dose first then add those aids in later so you are more sensitive to the same dose? Aren't you still increasing the lantus dose? If you increase the dose and add in sensitizers at the same time that could be too much. I have found metformin to make me more sensitive to insulin even after 1 dose.


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## JITB (Mar 19, 2018)

So Saturday, everything going great. Woke up, blood sugar was 93 (very happy). Had 30 IUs of Lantus. Morning shake, went gym armed with 40 EAA and 2 heaping scoops of lysine. Had another shake when I got home. Headed out to lunch for a steak (been looking forward to it). Went to the mex joint (free Southwest Airlines points), ordered steak med-rare, came back well. Sent it back, next one came back medium. Ate a bit, but had to leave to catch son's baseball game (senior college). Never made it. Stated throwing up on way there. 

Headed home, was fine for a few hours and put down some ham and cheese. Few hours later I found myself in a projectile vomitting contest that lasted well into the night. Had crap literally coming out all 3 holes. Without listing all the gruesome details, it's barely Monday morning and I'm finally starting to feel better. 

NEVER WENT HYPO. 

Food poisoning is serious pain. 

Set back obviously. Will post again when I'm 100%


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## Sully (Mar 19, 2018)

JITB said:


> So Saturday, everything going great. Woke up, blood sugar was 93 (very happy). Had 30 IUs of Lantus. Morning shake, went gym armed with 40 EAA and 2 heaping scoops of lysine. Had another shake when I got home. Headed out to lunch for a steak (been looking forward to it). Went to the mex joint (free Southwest Airlines points), ordered steak med-rare, came back well. Sent it back, next one came back medium. Ate a bit, but had to leave to catch son's baseball game (senior college). Never made it. Stated throwing up on way there.
> 
> Headed home, was fine for a few hours and put down some ham and cheese. Few hours later I found myself in a projectile vomitting contest that lasted well into the night. Had crap literally coming out all 3 holes. Without listing all the gruesome details, it's barely Monday morning and I'm finally starting to feel better.
> 
> ...



I’ve had that same experience. Ended up in the hospital because of it. That was one of the worst nights of my life. Get rested up and rehydrated. Hope you get to feeling better.


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## JITB (Mar 22, 2018)

Back from the dead. Again, food poisoning sucks!

2 days, back on track. Almost nothing news worthy to report. Scale is the same (trust it as far as I could throw it). However there is one thing, my pants are looser. I'm going to give it 3-4 more days before I say "for sure". Think I'll break out the tape measure tomorrow AM. 

Lantus still at 30 IUs a day.


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## JITB (Mar 23, 2018)

Another day of nothing really interesting.  

AM BS was 91. 

Didn't break out tape measure due to common keto side- 3 days backed up. Finally went early evening. 

I seem to be handling 30 IUs of Lantus just fine now, but I'll go 1 more day at 30 and wait until Saturday to increase to 35. (off work).


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## Santilaps (Mar 23, 2018)

Man aren't you scared of going hypo in your sleep? Did you do keto before starting the Lantus? How long?


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## JITB (Mar 24, 2018)

9 days to go! Increased Lantus to 35 this morning.


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## JITB (Mar 24, 2018)

Santilaps said:


> Man aren't you scared of going hypo in your sleep? Did you do keto before starting the Lantus? How long?



Simple answer- no. Do understand now that the body does have to get used to being in Keto. 

30 IUs/20 = 1.5 IUs an hour. 

I've done keto/TKD for years on end earlier in life. Even recently I've never (can't do anything diet wise) where carbs are high. Everyone is different and me and carbs just seem to not get along.


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## JITB (Mar 24, 2018)

To add to the above and if memory serves correctly. I think in one of CG's post he says to start keto and then later (like at least a week) then add Lantus. 

CG- please correct me if I got that part wrong.


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## odin (Mar 25, 2018)

Pants are looser is always a good sign but why aren't you going to the toilet. Any other changes? How is your training looking?


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## JITB (Mar 26, 2018)

odin said:


> Pants are looser is always a good sign but why aren't you going to the toilet. Any other changes? How is your training looking?



Toilet problem resolved. 

Thought long on your question and this are my thoughts (which you made me think). 

First Keto - just forgot how hard this is till your body makes the conversion. Then it's just part of the routine. 

Training- this is interesting and then again "no". Heart rate is raised post Lantus shot. If I do cardio before the shot, heart rate will be about 15 beats slower than after. Also, I'm no longer a believer that fasted cardio burns more calories over all. 

Lifting- stronger. By a noticeable amount (remember I'm nearly 60, ouch did I say that out loud ?). Now, is this because I dropped a high dose Deca/Mastron with extremely low dose test/moderate tren? I wish I could say for certainity but I can't. Could be the Lantus. Remember I'm cutting too. And for those people who say this is why they only change one thing at a time- good for you! I'm too close to meeting my maker (tick, tick, tick). 

So what did I learn? I like Lantus and am looking forward to including it in my upcoming blast. But not the way I drew it up on paper. Will include it on lifting days only. Reminds me of the advise DC gave about between lifting cycles, try new exercises first before incorporating them in. I shook the tree on Lantus and think I found the best way it benefit me.

Thanks again Odin for making me reflect!


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## JITB (Mar 26, 2018)

Quick update. Now at 40ius. Will let body adjust and then eval.


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## Viking (Mar 27, 2018)

I also know how changes in diet can effect things. The body doesn't like change. It looks like you have learnt a lot during this cycle and that is only a positive thing. Moving forward you will know how to implement it for the best results. I enjoy reading about other guys experiences with unusual methods.


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