# Question about crashing..



## Aikman56 (Jun 5, 2014)

Hi guys,

I've been home brewing for about 10 years now.

Typically, I have no issues beyond occasional pip, etc.  But from time to time I'll have a crash, as many of us do.

The crashes seem to have no rhyme or reason.  I'll use the exact same recipe for a compound and it'll be great for months, then I'll mix one and it crashes in a day or two. (Tren and higher dosed NPP being typical culprits!)

But it's stranger than that. I mixed 80 ml of 200mg/ml NPP recently.
I put 50ml in one vial and 30ml in another.  Exact same brew, brand-new sterile vials.

Within 2 days, the 30ml vial had crystals, the 50 didn't.. By day 5, the 30 was solid and 45 days later, the 50 is still crystal clear!  I melted and used the crashed one with no issues, but have NEVER seen something like that happen from the same mix.


My question is (beyond WTF on the NPP?!?) have any of you noticed one commonality between crashes of different compounds?  Too much or too little of a specific solvent?  Carrier type or amount?  Potency of raws?

Thanks in advance for any input.


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## Sully (Jun 6, 2014)

If they came from the same batch, and one vial crashed but the other one didn't, it could be a problem with the vials. Moisture in one vial but not the other? Do u buy pre-sanitized vials or sanitize your own?


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## Ironbuilt (Jun 6, 2014)

Was it continually stirring as you ran thru a filter.   Heavy molecular weight sinks. So one bottle had some stronger gear.  Not much , but it doesnt take much.


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## Aikman56 (Jun 6, 2014)

Lil' Sully said:


> If they came from the same batch, and one vial crashed but the other one didn't, it could be a problem with the vials. Moisture in one vial but not the other? Do u buy pre-sanitized vials or sanitize your own?



I buy sterile vials.  I vent with a 25g pin while using an 18 to put the filtered product in the vial.

Syringes and pins are always brand-new/sterile, as well.


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## Aikman56 (Jun 6, 2014)

Ironbuilt said:


> Was it continually stirring as you ran thru a filter.   Heavy molecular weight sinks. So one bottle had some stronger gear.  Not much , but it doesnt take much.



As stupid as this is going to sound, I don't think I've ever done that...not a single time.  It never even occurred to me...but now that you say it, it makes sense!

But no, I was not stirring.  I'd just pour into the filter, pump the hand vacuum and leave it to do it's thing.

What do you use to stir and at what rate.  I never considered it because once I put the top on the filter, I leave it be.


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## FordFan (Jun 7, 2014)

Ironbuilt said:


> Was it continually stirring as you ran thru a filter.   Heavy molecular weight sinks. So one bottle had some stronger gear.  Not much , but it doesnt take much.



You've got me thinking now. How would someone stir and filter at the same time? Without expensive equipment


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## Ironbuilt (Jun 7, 2014)

FordFan said:


> You've got me thinking now. How would someone stir and filter at the same time? Without expensive equipment



Bad wording.lol. I mean as product is getting filtered the finished product is also  getting stirred while on a magnetic hot plate with these before you bottle it up.. 
Chemistry is a fine art one or two degree loss in temp can cause compounds to change .. this is mostly for 500ml batch and up...


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## FordFan (Jun 7, 2014)

Ironbuilt said:


> Bad wording.lol. I mean as product is getting filtered the finished product is also  getting stirred while on a magnetic hot plate with these before you bottle it up..
> Chemistry is a fine art one or two degree loss in temp can cause compounds to change .. this is mostly for 500ml batch and up...



Hmm, I've always stirred, then filtered, then bottled my oil. Just never tried to "handle" final solution much after filtering To reduce potential contamination.


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## Ironbuilt (Jun 7, 2014)

All depends on volume  you are doing  and how fluids are drawn or dispensed into the vials .. bascially the sterile solution has the sterile mixer and is kept warm as its put into vials via vaccum or pump .


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## Aikman56 (Jun 8, 2014)

I never filter more than 100ml or so at a time...


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## Ironbuilt (Jun 9, 2014)

Aikman56 said:


> I never filter more than 100ml or so at a time...



Any pics ..im curious how different. Prob too late huh. Lol  
When u guys filter to you stir at all before bottling?


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## Aikman56 (Jun 9, 2014)

I'm not quite as sophisticated as some of the processes that I've seen here!

I use the Nalgene bottle top filter with a hand pump.  Draw out with sterile pin and syringe and put into sterile, sealed vial.

I do the old "swish/stir" before drawing out to bottle, but that's really it.


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## Ironbuilt (Jun 9, 2014)

Interesting. Must just be some drop in temperature and the whole chemical blending as you draw. Was crashed vial the last one u filled ?


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## Aikman56 (Jun 9, 2014)

It was, as a matter of fact.

Are you thinking that maybe there was some settling and I ended up with a higher concentration in the last one?


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