# Test only vs more than 1 compound



## Marshall (Dec 26, 2012)

Pros and cons? 

The only time I ever went over 1g of Test was just for a short time (1 month). I doubled up to 2g and noticed my strength increased remarkably. It was a long time ago and for whatever reason just always used something else with it and stayed moderate on Test since then. 

Maybe it's not a bad thing though, instead of always trying to mix in Deca, EQ, Masteron, Dbol or Tren with it. 

Thoughts, opinions and experiences?


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## incbb (Dec 26, 2012)

the highest ive gone with test is 1300mg, now cruising

next run is 1g of test + 400mg deca week

incbb


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## AnaSCI (Dec 26, 2012)

Highest I have ever gone was 2g/wk. Had great gains but also had to shower like 3x daily because my skin was much more oily.

I prefer a higher dose of Test versus a lower dose and other compounds added.


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## Incognito1 (Dec 26, 2012)

To be honest I have never gone over 1g of test. I havent really noticed any difference in size between 500mg and 1g, so I usually stick to 500mg. Im sure if I went up higher than 1300mg for example there would be a dramatic difference though. I usually love high tren low test but this course I have gone back to basics with just 500 test p/w.


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## Marshall (Dec 26, 2012)

AnaSCI said:


> Highest I have ever gone was 2g/wk. Had great gains but also had to shower like 3x daily because my skin was much more oily.
> 
> I prefer a higher dose of Test versus a lower dose and other compounds added.



Being older now, not sure the skin would be too much of an issue, might even help. I can't say I haven't had good results using moderate test and another compound (I've usually added tren or eq), but I'm really wondering if just using test isn't a bad way to go, or at least as you said, up it.


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## Marshall (Dec 26, 2012)

Incognito1 said:


> To be honest I have never gone over 1g of test. I havent really noticed any difference in size between 500mg and 1g, so I usually stick to 500mg.



I never really did either, so usually stick around 5-700 or so. I can remember though when I jumped from 1g to 2. One night I went in for my usual squat workout, I was doing sets with 315 then, and I easily worked up to 405 with the same reps.

I didn't continue that dosage very long (maybe a month) and my strength went back to where it was. Just reflecting back on it, I'm wondering if maybe I was on to something, at least for me anyway. 

Not that I necessarily want to use 2g, but maybe doubling up and dropping other stuff is an idea..


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 27, 2012)

Obviously ones goals and past exerience comes into play. Most of the huge guys I know take between 2-8g test per week. Alot of guys many look upto on the forums (that I have spoken to) usually tell me about 2-3g test then you have an anabolic (deca, eq) at say 1g and maybe an oral or other injectable. Although lots take tren at fairly high doses with the test too (500mg-2g).

I know guys who hate test and others who only run test only (with gh and slin). Everyone is different. Many think test is king and I understand why they say that. Me personally I think on a mg/mg basis test is not great. 1g deca is superior to test for muscle building imo. 1g of most things is superior to test imo. 500mg tren alone will create alot more results than 1g test imo. However I think there should always be a test base in most cycles. 

I know alot of guys who never run test... many use masteron for libido advancement. These guys use alot of npp, tren, primo, eq etc. They tend to look extremely lean most of the year. Sure diet dictates everything. But for many without the blockers high test can give a certain look... think hulk hogan... big but smooth. 

Again everyone is different. I know some guys who up their test when they want to get leaner... it will do that for most under certain circumstances.

I don't like high test that much. I have recently been on over 1g test per week and it makes me tired, brings about estrogenic sides and overall not the best muscle builder for me. I have lowered my dose to 500mg and 700mg npp and will continue with that for the next 6 weeks or so. I plan to blast on 750mg test and 1.2g deca (maybe even 500mg and 1.5g) for my following blast and to help gain the size I want. I know many hate deca but I love it.

I personally believe low-moderate doses of various compounds can be hugely effective whilst minimizing the potential side effects. I think most who think test is king have never actually done a cycle without it and experimented like some do. I think test is a must for my future cycles but I will keep it at 200-750mg. To give an indication I think great cycles for many (not all) could be something like the following...

1g range- 300mg test, 300 tren and 400mg mast/npp

1.5g range- 400mg test, 400mg tren, 400mg npp and 300mg mast

2g range could be 500mg test, 300g tren, 500mg npp and 700mg primo.

Although I can't argue anyone wanting mass to run high test and lots of slin and gh (gh and slin being key).


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## b12 (Dec 27, 2012)

Elvia1023 said:


> I think test is a must for my future cycles but I will keep it at 200-750mg. To give an indication I think great cycles for many (not all) could be something like the following...
> 
> 1g range- 300mg test, 300 tren and 400mg mast/npp
> 
> ...



I'd never run test / tren at a 1:1 ratio. They compete for the same sites.


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## Ironbuilt (Dec 27, 2012)

I'm a 500mg week longer duration type a person due some bp issues but defnately with mast or deca with it. I can't imagine 3-8 grms a week.. I'd need a difibulator for pct.


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 27, 2012)

b12 said:


> I'd never run test / tren at a 1:1 ratio. They compete for the same sites.



It won't make a difference... I know very experienced competitors on large amounts of tren and test together... results usually increase the higher the dose. Of course laws of diminishing returns come into play but that is determined on numerous genetic factors, current lbm, doses used etc. Your logic does not make sense imo. All androgenic mediated steroids compete for the same receptor sites. Competing for receptor sites is not a problem unless you have saturated all receptor sites. However I feel that will never be a problem (won't bore you with why I think that). It especially won't be a problem with someone on 300-400mg test and 300-400mg tren.

Generally I think low test and high tren cycles are amazing. Although I can't take much tren due to anxiety reasons. I think by using trt test and high tren you can minimize alot of possible tren sides. I know guys who couldn't handle approx 1g test and 400mg tren. But on 200mg test and 700mg tren they were fine. Although tren is strong no matter how you take it. There is alot of confusion when it comes to tren... such as thinking it will cause huge increases in prolactin etc. I think control of estrogen is key when on tren. In higher doses the inclusion of prami/caber can be useful too.

There is alot of nonsense (broscience) written on the boards such as your 1/1 ratio. I think alot of that is probably based on the fact tren is stronger and more tren would be best. The estrogen factor I mentioned above is probably key to that too (not competing for receptor sites). 

Sorry if I come across as rude but I do think that is complete nonsense.
If it makes you more comfortable doing a different ratio then that is fine but don't think one is cancelling the other out.


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 27, 2012)

Ironbuilt said:


> I'm a 500mg week longer duration type a person due some bp issues but defnately with mast or deca with it. I can't imagine 3-8 grms a week.. I'd need a difibulator for pct.



Yes I forgot to mention about bp... high test and in 2 months my bp is approx 160/90  High deca never does that to me... 2 months approx 130/70.


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## FordFan (Dec 27, 2012)

Ive only ran test at 1g by itself once. I get more from 250mg test and 400mg tren e than the 1g test.  Test doesn't seem to work as good for me as other compounds.


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## vpiedu (Dec 27, 2012)

Elvia1023 said:


> Generally I think low test and high tren cycles are amazing.



one of my favorites for sure with a little mast. i like cruising on 200 test 400 mast and occasionally adding 600 tren to the mix for a couple months. 

VP


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 27, 2012)

vpiedu said:


> one of my favorites for sure with a little mast. i like cruising on 200 test 400 mast and occasionally adding 600 tren to the mix for a couple months.
> 
> VP



200mg test and 400mg mast is not a cruise 

Yeah that sounds like an amazing cycle. I think mast is the best compliment to any cycle ever... especially test and tren. Although I also like to add it with my deca cycles too.


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## ASHOP (Dec 27, 2012)

Ive used 1gram TEST cycles in the past with great success many times.


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## b12 (Dec 27, 2012)

Elvia1023 said:


> It won't make a difference... I know very experienced competitors on large amounts of tren and test together... results usually increase the higher the dose. Of course laws of diminishing returns come into play but that is determined on numerous genetic factors, current lbm, doses used etc. Your logic does not make sense imo. All androgenic mediated steroids compete for the same receptor sites. Competing for receptor sites is not a problem unless you have saturated all receptor sites. However I feel that will never be a problem (won't bore you with why I think that). It especially won't be a problem with someone on 300-400mg test and 300-400mg tren.
> 
> Generally I think low test and high tren cycles are amazing. Although I can't take much tren due to anxiety reasons. I think by using trt test and high tren you can minimize alot of possible tren sides. I know guys who couldn't handle approx 1g test and 400mg tren. But on 200mg test and 700mg tren they were fine. Although tren is strong no matter how you take it. There is alot of confusion when it comes to tren... such as thinking it will cause huge increases in prolactin etc. I think control of estrogen is key when on tren. In higher doses the inclusion of prami/caber can be useful too.
> 
> ...



Tren and test are different AAS with different payouts and effects. If they are similar AAS, with the same effect, then why do 2 different compounds at all? 

In a finite system, you will want to maximize the bind of tren over test because More likely you are stacking for the primary traits of tren. 

And lack of saturation defeats your imposed ranges of 1g, 1.5g, 2g cycles >because< of the law of diminishing returns.

If you're not looking for the distinguishing effects of tren, which you extol in the second part or your reply, then there is no need for the 2nd or 3rd compounds in your proposed cycles.


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## LuKiFeR (Dec 27, 2012)

Highest i went was with bodiesbydesigns Supertest525. I ran 6ccs a wk. 3150mgs if im correct. More sides than anythng. I mean....great size n strength but i did better at 750mgs cyp with 400mgs deca. And less sides. Also did better with 500mgs wk test cyp n 40mgs pinkies. So...i think combining is better than high dose test....in my research anyway.


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## b12 (Dec 27, 2012)

LuKiFeR said:


> Highest i went was with bodiesbydesigns Supertest525. I ran 6ccs a wk. 3150mgs if im correct. More sides than anythng. I mean....great size n strength but i did better at 750mgs cyp with 400mgs deca. And less sides. Also did better with 500mgs wk test cyp n 40mgs pinkies. So...i think combining is better than high dose test....in my research anyway.



I agree with combining, but I bet you had a reason for dosing cyp at 750 and deca at 400? 5:3 effective dosing, but why test was higher? This is actually the point I was trying to make earlier with pharmacodynamic interactions versus pharmacokinetic ones.  Thanks Lukifer for posting a clear example from your personal experience.


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## dudcki27 (Dec 27, 2012)

Damn after reading this I'm now really thinking about my up coming cycle. I have no problem handling high doses of different compounds alone or combined with others. I've ran over a gram a week of tren with 100mg of drol a day with 50mgs of dbol as well. I always use a TRT dose of test and rarely go above 250mgs a week of test with my tren, it's just not needed with tren. I've dobe 1200mgs a week of test enanthate as well by itself. But I was planning on doing 200mgs of test ace and 75mgs of test suspension a day for 10 weeks. Now maybe I'll do 100mgs and 75mgs instead. But I've also read on professional muscle that some of the best gains people have gotten are from high test cycles.


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## odin (Dec 27, 2012)

I have gone 3 grams a week and really enjoyed the results! I was also running Tren Enan and some Stanz with it at the time though.


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## turbobusa (Dec 27, 2012)

Howdy Elvia hope you had good xmas. I really like the high tren low test idea Elv. Saps over at pm is really big on that and very insightful on low test High tren. We use to do it that way back in the mid 80s with great results. 
Marsh the only thing that I wonder on just test high mg is the lack of collegen 
synthesis. That would be my only worry -connective tissue. Might just be bro science. I will say that most of the catastrophic muscle injuries i've seen over the last 3 decades or so were in test only users . I'm not talking about cruise type stuff with the occasional blast. I'm talking 2 gram /week guys that just stay on .Might be a coincidence but almost all the pec tears, quad tears etc that i've known of with friends /lifting partners were test only guys. 
Someone straighten me out on this.. Thanks, T


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 27, 2012)

turbobusa said:


> Howdy Elvia hope you had good xmas. I really like the high tren low test idea Elv. Saps over at pm is really big on that and very insightful on low test High tren. We use to do it that way back in the mid 80s with great results.
> Marsh the only thing that I wonder on just test high mg is the lack of collegen
> synthesis. That would be my only worry -connective tissue. Might just be bro science. I will say that most of the catastrophic muscle injuries i've seen over the last 3 decades or so were in test only users . I'm not talking about cruise type stuff with the occasional blast. I'm talking 2 gram /week guys that just stay on .Might be a coincidence but almost all the pec tears, quad tears etc that i've known of with friends /lifting partners were test only guys.
> Someone straighten me out on this.. Thanks, T



Firstly b12 you really are off in your thinking with your ratios. Fact is you stated how you would never do test and tren at the same dose as they will compete for the same receptor so I merely commented why that is wrong. I am not gonna argue with you though and you can do whatever you want and I wish you all the best. Although I have to add those were just examples and I never do them at the same dose but it won't do any damage if you do. As I mentioned earlier I do recommend people try low test and high tren... I wish I could so I am jealous (high tren for me is 50mg per day)  Everyone reacts differently but many really do overcomplicate hormones. 

Turbo there is evidence to show testosterones effects on collagen. Although I think estrogen and especially progesterone can have an even bigger effect on collagen formation. I think the primary reason for high test having such an effect is the strength that comes from taking it. Added to that the androgenic sides... leading onto the aggression and attitude in the gym. People start lifting higher and higher and grow at an accelarated rate on such doses. Of course the connective tissue, ligaments and joints etc have to support all this added strength. They simply weaken and people can overdo it and bang... bad injury. 

Thinking about it alot of guys who use high test also take large amounts of AI's etc. Generally I think many way overdo the estrogenic aids... usually scared they will get gyno. As a result the AI's on high test can really dry you out. I think the inclusion of 200mg deca on such a cycle is a wise choice. Another thing that pops up is winny... I have seen so many injuries with guys on winny... I would never take winny when trying to increase the weights alot.

I just noticed you wrote about guys who blast and cruise and use alot of test... same sort of applies anyway  I think for many it is simply wear and tear. Some are lucky and have very strong ligaments etc. Others need to be more careful and squating 250kg and benching 200kg all through the year is gonna get them at some point. Then you could go into the whole exercise choice (pec tear... flat bench) and form and we would be here forever 

Turbo good to hear you had a good xmas in your other post. Have a great 2013


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## b12 (Dec 28, 2012)

Elvia1023 said:


> Firstly b12 you really are off in your thinking with your ratios. Fact is you stated how you would never do test and tren at the same dose as they will compete for the same receptor so I merely commented why that is wrong. I am not gonna argue with you though and you can do whatever you want and I wish you all the best. Although I have to add those were just examples and I never do them at the same dose but it won't do any damage if you do. As I mentioned earlier I do recommend people try low test and high tren... I wish I could so I am jealous (high tren for me is 50mg per day)  Everyone reacts differently but many really do overcomplicate hormones.
> 
> Turbo there is evidence to show testosterones effects on collagen. Although I think estrogen and especially progesterone can have an even bigger effect on collagen formation. I think the primary reason for high test having such an effect is the strength that comes from taking it. Added to that the androgenic sides... leading onto the aggression and attitude in the gym. People start lifting higher and higher and grow at an accelarated rate on such doses. Of course the connective tissue, ligaments and joints etc have to support all this added strength. They simply weaken and people can overdo it and bang... bad injury.
> 
> ...



Ok...Are you not familiar at ALL with PD/PK constructs for TST /agonists ? hmmm...tell me again what broscience is ? Why give advice you would not even follow *yourself*? 

When you say "To give an indication *I think great cycles for many *(not all) could be something like the following...
1g range- *300*mg test, *300* tren and 400mg mast/npp...blah blah blah, et al. and then flip-flop with "...As I mentioned earlier I do recommend people try *low test and high tren*."

"...but it won't do any damage if you do..." Is that your example of a theraputic index, something that you could never do -have never done, would not ever do?
I guess in not so many words, you wouldn't do test:tren in a 1:1 ratio either. Best of luck to you in figuring *that out.*


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## dudcki27 (Dec 28, 2012)

:food-smiley-007::food-smiley-007::food-smiley-007:


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 28, 2012)

I haven't really got time to argue with you... off to work. However ... No I would happily do test and tren at the same dose... happily. I stated I haven't actually done that. Sure I have been on 200mg of each before but then I upped the tren over time to 50mg per day. I like to up doses gradually during a cycle (when needed). I have done more test than tren too... all pretty basic stuff. 

Again you stated how they will compete for the same receptor doing 300/400mg of each... so I can assume you meant it would basically be bad or not optimal.  I merely pointed out how your logic was completely wrong. You were infact way off on your statement. The fact you thought they will basically cancel eachother or partly out (you didn't use the words but what else would competing for the same receptor mean) shows you need to do more research for yourself.

My summer cycle is gonna include 300mg test and tren in... although maybe I should do 285mg test so they don't compete for the same receptor 

Honestly just do what you want and I can't be bothered with you. You will think you were right and I will think I am right. Sure when you do more research into it you will realize you were wrong and but act like you were right  People really do overcomplicate hormones thinking there is a perfect ratio for hulk like muscle growth. It's about progression... I know guys who take 2g of both togther and they certainly don't look like they are cancelling eachother out. By the way I may not look it cos I am a work in progress but I do know my hormones and what you wrote is basic misinformation you get on every forum.


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## turbobusa (Dec 28, 2012)

Morning (here anyway) Elvia. I do plan on a high tren/ low test cycle for spring.
I am hoping that by reducing test I will get the benefits  with less sides.
I think with prolactin in cheque I could go with almost no test. Can you tell me how much more androgenic tren is vs test? I thought it was 2-3 X more andro than test but a buddy is telling me in some old duchaine stuff he mentions 
5X the androgenicity(is that a real word? lol)of test. With high androgens fron tren and prolactin in check do I really need much test at all. 
Remember I just woke up with a turkey hangover so forgive any am redundancy. Hope the work day was good. T


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## GastrocGuy (Dec 28, 2012)

Hey dudcki27! If anyone knows tren, dudcki27 is the man! Interesting debate, bro. @elvia1023 hey man, I think you're reading the wrong way on the competing thing? A lot of information about a how a hormone acts can be inferred by knowing the type of receptor it uses, so like at those levels for both compounds, it's better to use just one. Rest of the stuff looks like you guys are saying the same kinds of things in different ways. @turbousa yeah man, it's like 3x. You can run tren solo, bro.


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## Big-John (Dec 28, 2012)

I am just all confused now? lol O and glad to see you over GastrocGuy!


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## fubaseball (Dec 28, 2012)

I'm running 125mg Sust and 250mg Tren EOD... Probably one of my favorites I have ever ran! Big, lean and strong as fuck


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## GastrocGuy (Dec 28, 2012)

Big-John said:


> I am just all confused now? lol O and glad to see you over GastrocGuy!



Hey big-John ! heheh,  I dunno, when it comes to tren i read up on dudcki27's posts on the other board and it works good for me! (1400mgs!  )


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## Big-John (Dec 28, 2012)

GastrocGuy said:


> Hey big-John ! heheh,  I dunno, when it comes to tren i read up on dudcki27's posts on the other board and it works good for me! (1400mgs!  )



Yeah I could not agree more. But man the more I research the more confused I get. Guys running over a gram of test a week? Im not saying there wrong but I see other guys saying they got more results on 300mg of test a week compared to 1000?  I guess it varies between people.


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## dudcki27 (Dec 28, 2012)

turbobusa said:


> Morning (here anyway) Elvia. I do plan on a high tren/ low test cycle for spring.
> I am hoping that by reducing test I will get the benefits  with less sides.
> I think with prolactin in cheque I could go with almost no test. Can you tell me how much more androgenic tren is vs test? I thought it was 2-3 X more andro than test but a buddy is telling me in some old duchaine stuff he mentions
> 5X the androgenicity(is that a real word? lol)of test. With high androgens fron tren and prolactin in check do I really need much test at all.
> Remember I just woke up with a turkey hangover so forgive any am redundancy. Hope the work day was good. T



Testosterone has an Anabolic\Androgenic rating of 100\100 and Trenbolone is 500\500.


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## chris698 (Dec 28, 2012)

I am with you Big John, getting a little confused....

Okay, so if I run a 2:1 ratio of Tren vs Test Cyp (Example 800mg Tren/week and 400mg of Test Cyp/week) would that be counterproductive and a waste of product??


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## dudcki27 (Dec 28, 2012)

chris698 said:


> I am with you Big John, getting a little confused....
> 
> Okay, so if I run a 2:1 ratio of Tren vs Test Cyp (Example 800mg Tren/week and 400mg of Test Cyp/week) would that be counterproductive and a waste of product??



You NEVER need more than125-250mgs of test while on any dose of tren...fact not broscience.


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## fubaseball (Dec 28, 2012)

I'd say no... Past 2 blast have been low test high Tren. Last one was 250 test E and 600mg Tren E. I LOVED it...


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## chris698 (Dec 28, 2012)

Got it, thanks! 




dudcki27 said:


> You NEVER need more than125-250mgs of test while on any dose of tren...fact not broscience.


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 28, 2012)

GastrocGuy said:


> Hey dudcki27! If anyone knows tren, dudcki27 is the man! Interesting debate, bro. @elvia1023 hey man, I think you're reading the wrong way on the competing thing? A lot of information about a how a hormone acts can be inferred by knowing the type of receptor it uses, so like at those levels for both compounds, it's better to use just one. Rest of the stuff looks like you guys are saying the same kinds of things in different ways. @turbousa yeah man, it's like 3x. You can run tren solo, bro.



Hi matey. No I am well aware of that. I understand where his side of the debate is coming from. However I think I mentioned a few details in my first reply to him. It's similar to when emeric says to not take deca with test (emeric knows more than anyone). But trust me the statement b12 made in his first post was way off and thats why I disagreed. I wouldn't say we are saying the same thing quite the opposite. I think it is just another example of someone overcomplicating hormones. But trust me I know all about how hormones can activate various receptors.

I should add I am well aware of the binding affinity tren has to the androgen receptor. I think this is the main reason for b12's debate. But again I don't think there will be a problem with 300-400mg test and tren. I have also made it clear that I think it is optimal to use higher tren than test for cycles... I don't particularly like test... I must prefer deca, mast etc.

Turbo someone else answered. Yeah the anabolic/androgenic ratios are 100/100 for test (first one) and 500/500 for tren. This is where the 5 times stronger comes from. Things written on paper don't always come to life in a pratical situation though. You only have to look at some of the other ratios to see that (such as halo). However everyone is different so some are more sensitive to certain compounds. I would have to agree though I would say it is approx 3 times stronger. But that guess means nothing as fact is tren can do things to a physique test could never regardless of the dose. 

Just adding I see people are getting confused. This is why I said about overcomplicating things when they is no need. People are now thinking if I do x amount of this and y amount of that will that be effective. It's all nonsense. Different things work for different people. But get the hormones in your blood and be consistent with diet and training and you will do well... well that is what I plan to do anyway. There is no magic formula... the hard work is in the kitchen and gym. Although injecting everyday does get annoying 

Anyone wanting to do high tren and low test I recommend trying 200mg test weekly and say 50mg tren a per day. Then move up in tren gradually over the weeks. Everyone has a limit... some want to go really high but can't so just see where your limit is or where you are happy with. I think 200mg test and 500mg tren is plenty. I know some experienced guys who do 300mg tren a per day so we are all different. First time tren users 200mg is plenty... 50mg per day should impress you more than anything you have ever done.


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## Marshall (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm kind of surprised at all of the high tren guys, when on the other thread it was one of the most popular compounds that people plan on avoiding.

So the general consensus is that 700 Test, 500 Eq and 300 Deca (or something similar depending on your favorites) would be much more effective, with less annoying sides than 1.5g of Test?


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## Elvia1023 (Dec 29, 2012)

Marshall said:


> I'm kind of surprised at all of the high tren guys, when on the other thread it was one of the most popular compounds that people plan on avoiding.
> 
> So the general consensus is that 700 Test, 500 Eq and 300 Deca (or something similar depending on your favorites) would be much more effective, with less annoying sides than 1.5g of Test?



It's hard to say as everyone responds differently. I think the key is to try both methods and see for yourself. Alot of guys dismiss certain approaches without ever trying them. A good example of this is guys who think you must do more test then any other compound... loads of people think that.

I would say generally though less sides are noticed when guys pick compounds that suit them and use small-moderate doses of multiple compounds. I know plenty of guys who like high test but I know more who get bad sides from it. The amount of people I know who complain about tiredness, ill feeling, estrogenic sides etc are too many for it to not be a highly possible side. Many simply think you have to feel that way on high hormones.

It's upto you what you are gonna do. I would personally do the 3 compounds instead of just test but thats just me. Saying that if it were me I would just do 1g deca and 500mg test but that just shows how everyone is different.

Although if one was to blast some gh and slin I think the test could be great. I was tired from just over a gram of test recently. I added gh for practially the 1st time ever and that made me really bad. Then I added slin for the first time ever (5-8IU) and it had got to a point I literally couldn't get up for the gym some days. I got that fed up I stopped injecting most of the time. If I were left I could sleep for 12 hours and it was getting silly so I have made changes so I can put 100% into everything. Sure if you didn't have to work and could just train and have fun it would be amazing but for me it was getting silly.

Let us know what you decide to do. I am running a few bits now but plan to do roughly the above (test and deca) sometime in Feb.


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## Jello (Dec 29, 2012)

Magical things seem to happen when I hit 1g of Test. I'll take that over stacking, much easier to control sides and I just feel real good.


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## Freakz (Dec 29, 2012)

Marshall said:


> Pros and cons?
> 
> The only time I ever went over 1g of Test was just for a short time (1 month). I doubled up to 2g and noticed my strength increased remarkably. It was a long time ago and for whatever reason just always used something else with it and stayed moderate on Test since then.
> 
> ...



This is an interesting topic!


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## turbobusa (Dec 30, 2012)

Lots of food for thought here. This is a great example of how this board works .
Lots of great input and the respect of individuals views. I'm probably gonna go a low test route on a tren run in late spring. I think one thing to remember for less experienced tren users is ease in slow. Powerful stuff. I totally understand Jellos preference for high test . We all know pretty much how we respond to test and how to keep sides in check. Good gains will be there. 
Tren for  me is somewhat of a wild card. Fantasic physique changer but potent enough to really warrant some caution . Hope i'm making sense I just woke up and my old brain takes a while to warm up.  Thanks, T


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## Kdawgs (Dec 30, 2012)

I always go really low on test (125-150mg/wk) and on the very odd occaision I'll up it to 250mg/week. My body responds much better when keeping test at low/trt levels and relying on other compounds (tren, npp, drol, var etc) to do the work.


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## Marshall (Dec 31, 2012)

I wish I would've followed up on that with some experimentation. Not really sure why I didn't, but I moved forward basically using moderate test and adding some compounds here and there.

T brought up a good point about the collagen issues. It's a concern of mine at this point in my life. My joints and tendons ache consistently. I'm hesitant that while high Test only would probably produce the strength and physique gains that I want, the sides and injury potential might not be worth it.


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## MightyJohn (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm a firm believer that if HGH is in the cycle then test only at high doses is good(results, sides, etc.)

If HGH isn't an option the lower test and stacking anabolics is a better choice


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## LuKiFeR (Dec 31, 2012)

No disrespect to anyone....

But when it comes to tren...Dudcki27 knows his shit. He has given many ppl advice on tren n theyve come back with nothing but great results n comments. He can n will help if anyone needs suggestions. Hes a good guy!!  

 Aaaaand if u use the discount code DUDCKIREP10 @ ergopep ....u will get 10% off your order!!!   (Youre welcome Dudcki)

But back to thread.....
I like test only for bridging cycles. But during..i like multiple compounds. I feel each has its own pros to bring to the table. Kind of like this forum. If u have 1 person posting...u mite not get aaaall the goodies. But with many ppl posting.....u actually might get all or most of the answers.    Hope yal get what im sayin  lol


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## turbobusa (Dec 31, 2012)

One thing I wanted to mention. A few post back some one is talking about deca eq  test. Tren is the only Nor 19 that I feel is worth the prolactin management task for me. I liked deca back oh say 20 years ago or so. 
The gains / results from deca make me feel i'm probably not gonna run anymore of that. Tren is a fucking body recomp hammer every time I use it.
Worth the sides management for me. Course I have not run npp in a cycle yet. 
Durabolin was I believe only in 50 mgs 30 yrs ago so I passed most of the time on that nan compound.Anyway getting side tracked. Thanks for the great input 
and exp guys.   T


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## Marshall (Dec 31, 2012)

Ya, I remember those 2 cc bottles of Deca years ago


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## ProFIT (Jan 6, 2013)

MightyJohn said:


> I'm a firm believer that if HGH is in the cycle then test only at high doses is good(results, sides, etc.)
> 
> If HGH isn't an option the lower test and stacking anabolics is a better choice



I agree with this!


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## Dontblink (Jan 23, 2013)

I like this thread...makes you think

I'm just staying open minded at this point but am curious. So my current cycle is 825mg test-c 625mg EQ a week but I also run some gh just 5 ius pwo or prebed on non training day also run peps in the morning and afternoon training days only...I feel strong as hell and body is leaner and bigger (same weight but getting lean) everyone keeps saying I'm looking swole so that's good but as we all know always headed to the next level....

So an open question is what would you up or change for the next level?


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## Elvia1023 (Jan 23, 2013)

Dontblink said:


> I like this thread...makes you think
> 
> I'm just staying open minded at this point but am curious. So my current cycle is 825mg test-c 625mg EQ a week but I also run some gh just 5 ius pwo or prebed on non training day also run peps in the morning and afternoon training days only...I feel strong as hell and body is leaner and bigger (same weight but getting lean) everyone keeps saying I'm looking swole so that's good but as we all know always headed to the next level....
> 
> So an open question is what would you up or change for the next level?



If your currently progressing then there is no need to change things up. When you start to plateau change your diet and/or training. Keep progressing on the dose your on. If you want to get to the next level then sure you will have to up your dose eventually. But exhaust other possibilities before you do. If all you do is up your dose well there is only so much you can up to before your blasting away.

I recommend breaks. If you blast and cruise then do your trt then back on you old dose and you will continue to gain if everything else is spot on. By taking breaks you can progress more in the long run imo. But sure a few long ones going gradually upping your dose would be great. You are only as big as your dose in away so it's a key factor.

It's upto you what to do. But I see you ask what we would do to up to the next level in your scenario. If I were on that and wanted to up I would probably add in dbol/adrol for 3 weeks. Or maybe abit of deca (400mg). Or simply more test. Either of the three would definately spicen things up... I have put them in order of effectiveness too


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## MightyJohn (Jan 24, 2013)

ProFIT said:


> I agree with this!



The guys I know that have MUTATED(40-100lb gains)...You guys knwo what I mean the guy You don't see for a yr or 2 and go WTF next time You see him all used HIGH TEST(2grams+) and as much GH as they can afford


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## IRONFIST (Jan 24, 2013)

MightyJohn said:


> The guys I know that have MUTATED(40-100lb gains)...You guys knwo what I mean the guy You don't see for a yr or 2 and go WTF next time You see him all used HIGH TEST(2grams+) and as much GH as they can afford



:yeahthat:


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## MightyJohn (Jan 24, 2013)

odin said:


> I have gone 3 grams a week and really enjoyed the results! I was also running Tren Enan and some Stanz with it at the time though.



How were the sides? Did the Tren E make it rough?


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## odin (Jan 24, 2013)

MightyJohn said:


> How were the sides? Did the Tren E make it rough?



They weren't too, too bad. Skin broke out a little more then usual, it was also a little greasier (was taking 3 showers a day). I was running 800mg/wk of Tren E which made my skin start to smell a little funny and urine started getting darker? The Stanz I added in at the end at 100mg/ed. All in all it was a good experience. It did take me a while before the greasy skin smell went away after I came off.


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## Marshall (Jan 24, 2013)

Dontblink said:


> I like this thread...makes you think
> 
> I'm just staying open minded at this point but am curious. So my current cycle is 825mg test-c 625mg EQ a week but I also run some gh just 5 ius pwo or prebed on non training day also run peps in the morning and afternoon training days only...I feel strong as hell and body is leaner and bigger (same weight but getting lean) everyone keeps saying I'm looking swole so that's good but as we all know always headed to the next level....
> 
> So an open question is what would you up or change for the next level?



This is pretty damn close to what I ran when I was in the best shape of my life. I'd toss some dbol on and off with it too.


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## BrettFavor (Jan 24, 2013)

I think most would agree that to make the most lean gains Low Test, Higher Tren, and maybe Masteron thrown in for libido would be the very best combo out there when we are strictly speaking AAS.  Obviously going to "freak" mode would require HGH and probably Slin as well, BUT there are a few things you guys are forgetting.

First of all it's not always about the biggest gains for people, it can't be.

Moderate to High Test will make just about everyone feel incredible.  Test is really the only steroid (besides MAYBE Dbol) that increases your well-being so much it could be an anti-depressant.

I think the best way to go would be 150-250mg Test/week and 300-600mg Tren/week (then add 200-300mg of Mast/week if you need it), BUT I don't feel great when I take that combo.  You can make incredible sick gains, but if it comes at the expense of your well-being or health IMO it's not worth it.

With that said I sacrifice a few months here and there and run Tren Ace., but nothing makes me feel as good as Test only.


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## MightyJohn (Jan 24, 2013)

odin said:


> They weren't too, too bad. Skin broke out a little more then usual, it was also a little greasier (was taking 3 showers a day). I was running 800mg/wk of Tren E which made my skin start to smell a little funny and urine started getting darker? The Stanz I added in at the end at 100mg/ed. All in all it was a good experience. It did take me a while before the greasy skin smell went away after I came off.



Thanks...how were the results? Weight gain/bf loss etc.?


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## Dontblink (Jan 24, 2013)

Marshall said:


> This is pretty damn close to what I ran when I was in the best shape of my life. I'd toss some dbol on and off with it too.



Thanks bro yeah I agree this is the best cycle yet....I had started some adrol at 25mg twice a day but got a nasty head cold so I pulled it until its gone.....cough with the headache that I think the adrol gave me was too much....

In your opinion would dbol be better than adrol?


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## Dontblink (Jan 24, 2013)

Elvia1023 said:


> If your currently progressing then there is no need to change things up. When you start to plateau change your diet and/or training. Keep progressing on the dose your on. If you want to get to the next level then sure you will have to up your dose eventually. But exhaust other possibilities before you do. If all you do is up your dose well there is only so much you can up to before your blasting away.
> 
> I recommend breaks. If you blast and cruise then do your trt then back on you old dose and you will continue to gain if everything else is spot on. By taking breaks you can progress more in the long run imo. But sure a few long ones going gradually upping your dose would be great. You are only as big as your dose in away so it's a key factor.
> 
> It's upto you what to do. But I see you ask what we would do to up to the next level in your scenario. If I were on that and wanted to up I would probably add in dbol/adrol for 3 weeks. Or maybe abit of deca (400mg). Or simply more test. Either of the three would definately spicen things up... I have put them in order of effectiveness too



Yeah I agree too as long as I make gains I keep my cycle the same as soon as they stop I might bump it a bit but normally I'll come off or down to a trt dose for a month and then go back at it...

I had stated adrol but got a lame head cold and the cough with the headache was too much so now it's gone and I'm gonna add it back in at 25mg twice a day probably 4 weeks or so....

Haven't tried deca but could in a cycle some where maybe some NPP not sure like you said though as long as its going well I'm not gonna mess with it too much


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## Marshall (Jan 24, 2013)

Dontblink said:


> Thanks bro yeah I agree this is the best cycle yet....I had started some adrol at 25mg twice a day but got a nasty head cold so I pulled it until its gone.....cough with the headache that I think the adrol gave me was too much....
> 
> In your opinion would dbol be better than adrol?



Definitely. No Anadrol I've ever used since the original American Syntex was worth it to me. Way more sides than gains from any other brand, so I quit using it a long time ago.

Dbol gives a good fullness with that cycle imo.


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## Dontblink (Jan 25, 2013)

Marshall said:


> Definitely. No Anadrol I've ever used since the original American Syntex was worth it to me. Way more sides than gains from any other brand, so I quit using it a long time ago.
> 
> Dbol gives a good fullness with that cycle imo.



Awesome thanks :headbang:
How much a day?


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## Marshall (Jan 25, 2013)

Depending on your tabs. If I had 10's, 40 was perfect. If I had 50's, one per day was fine.


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## MightyJohn (Jan 26, 2013)

Marshall said:


> Depending on your tabs. If I had 10's, 40 was perfect. If I had 50's, one per day was fine.



Like old school Hemo's 75mg a day was a religious experience...the the after school specials where kids do juice and grow looking at weights LOL


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