# Ephederine  WTF???



## steve0085 (Nov 20, 2005)

Someone please point out my stupidity and explain to me Why this is available and so cheap.  What's the catch cause I thought ephederine was pulled off of shelves years ago.

http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=2091


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## Testosperone (Nov 20, 2005)

hmm i know u can still buy ephedra or somthing like that..they like lowered the doses so minute that its legal..or somthing..i have a friend that uses some type of epherdrine to lose weight and she biys it otc so its somthing to do with that...its not the real deal


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## steve0085 (Nov 20, 2005)

I just can't see where it isn't the real thing, it claims to have 25mg epherine HCL per pill.  There's got to be a catch though, either it doesn't have the 25mg like it says, or maybe the other crap in it is bad for you to take three times a day.


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## pincrusher (Nov 20, 2005)

ephedra/ephedrine were originally banned by congress as a cutting agent but were still legal as a bronciodilator for asthma sufferers as that was its original intended useage when developed.  one of the companies that made ephedra products recently won a case against the FDA for not having proper evidence that ephedra when used at the proper dosages would not adversly affect your health and make it dangerous so now a few companies have reintroduced it as a cutting agent as long as the dosages do not go over the limet which i believe is 25mg but not 100% sure.
you could find epedra products out there if ya looked hard enough but they had the labels changed to show them as a bronciodilator instead of fat reducing product, even prior to the legal victory.


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## pincrusher (Nov 20, 2005)

steve0085 said:
			
		

> Someone please point out my stupidity and explain to me Why this is available and so cheap.  What's the catch cause I thought ephederine was pulled off of shelves years ago.
> 
> http://www.bulknutrition.com/?products_id=2091


just wanted to also add that the link you provided is a very legit and great source for legal supplements and i have used them a few times even though they are fairly new.


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## steve0085 (Nov 20, 2005)

so essentiall it's the same thing just labeled for a different purpose??


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## pincrusher (Nov 20, 2005)

steve0085 said:
			
		

> so essentiall it's the same thing just labeled for a different purpose??


yup isnt the law wonderful sometimes  LOL in congresses haste to ban it they really messed up and didnt cover all its uses including the original one it was intended for


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## steve0085 (Nov 20, 2005)

good deal, gonna try it out and let you all know how it works.  Damn cheap price.(about 12 cents a tab compared to a sources 60 cents and you don't have to mess with WU)


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## STEELADDICTION (Nov 20, 2005)

Better snag some up quick bro.  BN is where I buy most my stuff from.  The ephedrine goes very quick and soon will say OUT OF STOCK.  They will get more in, but sometimes it takes a while.  Very high in demand.


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## stealthmeister (Nov 20, 2005)

In Canada, you can go to almost any supplement shop and they have ephedrine in bulk. It's legal, but you have to ask for it, as it's usually behind the counter. There are a lot of Canadian supplement links that sell ephed 8 mg tabs. The max dose allowed though is 8 mg/ tab. 50 tabs runs about $9, but can be bought in "cases" of 12 bottles....600 x 8mg tabs for $90 - 100 or so (Cdn $). The fools that are using it for crystal meth (a very, very dangerous and bad drug) production have really sunk those that chose to use it for other purposes.

I've only tried a few tabs a few times to see if it would help with motivation / reduce mental fatigue during workouts. Did give some "buzz", but made my HR too high on long runs and other cardio workouts.  How do you guys compare clenbuterol to ephed in terms of how you feel...things like energy, mental fatigue, "nervousness", sweating, heart rate, fat loss??


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## dump truck (Nov 20, 2005)

Clen makes my HR go right up. When I first took it I thought my heart was going to leap out of my chest.


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## STEELADDICTION (Nov 20, 2005)

I'd take the ECA stack over Clen any day!  As for the heart rate comparison, Clen increased my heart rate much more than ECA stack.  Plus, the clen gave me no energy and I was more tired and bitchy at the end of the day.



			
				stealthmeister said:
			
		

> In Canada, you can go to almost any supplement shop and they have ephedrine in bulk. It's legal, but you have to ask for it, as it's usually behind the counter. There are a lot of Canadian supplement links that sell ephed 8 mg tabs. The max dose allowed though is 8 mg/ tab. 50 tabs runs about $9, but can be bought in "cases" of 12 bottles....600 x 8mg tabs for $90 - 100 or so (Cdn $). The fools that are using it for crystal meth (a very, very dangerous and bad drug) production have really sunk those that chose to use it for other purposes.
> 
> I've only tried a few tabs a few times to see if it would help with motivation / reduce mental fatigue during workouts. Did give some "buzz", but made my HR too high on long runs and other cardio workouts.  How do you guys compare clenbuterol to ephed in terms of how you feel...things like energy, mental fatigue, "nervousness", sweating, heart rate, fat loss??


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## steve0085 (Nov 21, 2005)

STEELADDICTION said:
			
		

> I'd take the ECA stack over Clen any day!  As for the heart rate comparison, Clen increased my heart rate much more than ECA stack.  Plus, the clen gave me no energy and I was more tired and bitchy at the end of the day.


I've never taken ECA, but clen did absolutely nothing for me in the way of fat loss(yes I had a good diet and cardio).  All it did was make me all jittery(like a crackhead), gave me cramps durring sex, skyrocket my HR and made me tired as hell.


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## stealthmeister (Nov 21, 2005)

Hmmmm....the value of practical feedback! Not the responses I expected. Sounds like clen will be even worse than ephed for me if I'm after some additional energy without an excessive HR, particularly since I do LOTS of cardio. Also interesting to see some comments on fat loss with clen.....by the way it's talked about on the boards and books, it sounds as though it is a great thing to use for fat loss.  Helps to have real input from those who have used it. Glad I asked. Thanks for the info!


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## BuffChick510 (Nov 21, 2005)

Ephedrine is still availabe OTC as an aid to relieve asthma so it STILL can be bought legally. I bought some 25 mg tabs in a local pharmacy in the cold and sinus section (Bronkaid) , but to make the ECA stack, I add taking No-Doz for the caffeine and an aspirin.  And we found Twinlab's Ripped Fuel at easypricematching.com. Course the price is double what it was when it was legal ... go figure  lol


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## STEELADDICTION (Nov 21, 2005)

Buknutrition.com

Biotek ephedrine  48 tabs/25mg each = $6.00
Caffeine  200 tabs/200mg each = $5.95

Dollar Store Asprin  200 tabs/325mg each = $1.00





			
				BuffChick510 said:
			
		

> Ephedrine is still availabe OTC as an aid to relieve asthma so it STILL can be bought legally. I bought some 25 mg tabs in a local pharmacy in the cold and sinus section (Bronkaid) , but to make the ECA stack, I add taking No-Doz for the caffeine and an aspirin.  And we found Twinlab's Ripped Fuel at easypricematching.com. Course the price is double what it was when it was legal ... go figure  lol


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## Macstanton (Nov 21, 2005)

i'm addicted to caffeine.  SPEED STACKS are gods gifts to man.


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## steve0085 (Nov 21, 2005)

STEELADDICTION said:
			
		

> Buknutrition.com
> 
> Biotek ephedrine  48 tabs/25mg each = $6.00
> Caffeine  200 tabs/200mg each = $5.95
> ...



Having a nice six pack at the beach.........Priceless!


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## Macstanton (Nov 21, 2005)

steve0085 said:
			
		

> Having a nice six pack at the beach.........Priceless!



quadruple bypass because of too much caffeine and ephedrine.......$300,000


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## STEELADDICTION (Nov 21, 2005)

FUNNY!   NOT! :twisted: 





			
				Macstanton said:
			
		

> quadruple bypass because of too much caffeine and ephedrine.......$300,000


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## DragonRider (Nov 22, 2005)

Macstanton said:
			
		

> quadruple bypass because of too much caffeine and ephedrine.......$300,000



If you believe that, don't use it.


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## DragonRider (Nov 22, 2005)

STEELADDICTION said:
			
		

> Buknutrition.com
> 
> Biotek ephedrine  48 tabs/25mg each = $6.00
> Caffeine  200 tabs/200mg each = $5.95
> ...



I recommend against the full strength asprin and prefer baby asprin.
Too much asprin can be bad for your stomach lining and will thin your blood enough to make you think you're a bleeder.


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## STEELADDICTION (Nov 22, 2005)

My bad and good catch DR.  I forgot to include that I cut my regular asprin into 4 using a tab cutter.  1/4 asprin for each ECA dose.




			
				DragonRider said:
			
		

> I recommend against the full strength asprin and prefer baby asprin.
> Too much asprin can be bad for your stomach lining and will thin your blood enough to make you think you're a bleeder.


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## stealthmeister (Nov 22, 2005)

*aortic rupture*



			
				Macstanton said:
			
		

> quadruple bypass because of too much caffeine and ephedrine.......$300,000



Maybe not a bypass, but we did have a young guy on AAS and admitted to using an ECA stack (the first time I had ever heard of it actually) come in here last year having dissected (a tear in the wall) his thoracic aorta and nearly died before emergency open-heart surgery to fix his aorta.  The ephedrine and caffeine can raise your blood pressure substantially (along with maybe some pre-existing hypertension from AAS and straining while lifting) and put you at risk for things like aortic rupture and hemorrhagic strokes.  To add insult to injury, the aspirin affects platelet function and allows these things to bleed profusely. 

Okay, not to spoil the fun with the above, but do keep an eye on your BP.

Stealth.


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## steve0085 (Nov 22, 2005)

stealthmeister said:
			
		

> Maybe not a bypass, but we did have a young guy on AAS and admitted to using an ECA stack (the first time I had ever heard of it actually) come in here last year having dissected (a tear in the wall) his thoracic aorta and nearly died before emergency open-heart surgery to fix his aorta.  The ephedrine and caffeine can raise your blood pressure substantially (along with maybe some pre-existing hypertension from AAS and straining while lifting) and put you at risk for things like aortic rupture and hemorrhagic strokes.  To add insult to injury, the aspirin affects platelet function and allows these things to bleed profusely.
> 
> Okay, not to spoil the fun with the above, but do keep an eye on your BP.
> 
> Stealth.


Is that something that I should really worry about???  Damn, sounds bad.  I'm pretty healthy though, and young.  My blood pressure is usually around 115 over 80.


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## DragonRider (Nov 22, 2005)

stealthmeister said:
			
		

> Maybe not a bypass, but we did have a young guy on AAS and admitted to using an ECA stack (the first time I had ever heard of it actually) come in here last year having dissected (a tear in the wall) his thoracic aorta and nearly died before emergency open-heart surgery to fix his aorta.  The ephedrine and caffeine can raise your blood pressure substantially (along with maybe some pre-existing hypertension from AAS and straining while lifting) and put you at risk for things like aortic rupture and hemorrhagic strokes.  To add insult to injury, the aspirin affects platelet function and allows these things to bleed profusely.
> 
> Okay, not to spoil the fun with the above, but do keep an eye on your BP.
> 
> Stealth.


Stealth, do we know what this guys doses were?
Generally, the only people who have problems are the ones who attempt to lose weight faster by doubling or tripling the doses.


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## pincrusher (Nov 22, 2005)

stealthmeister said:
			
		

> Maybe not a bypass, but we did have a young guy on AAS and admitted to using an ECA stack (the first time I had ever heard of it actually) come in here last year having dissected (a tear in the wall) his thoracic aorta and nearly died before emergency open-heart surgery to fix his aorta.  The ephedrine and caffeine can raise your blood pressure substantially (along with maybe some pre-existing hypertension from AAS and straining while lifting) and put you at risk for things like aortic rupture and hemorrhagic strokes.  To add insult to injury, the aspirin affects platelet function and allows these things to bleed profusely.
> 
> Okay, not to spoil the fun with the above, but do keep an eye on your BP.
> 
> Stealth.


sounds like this guy was using eq or anadrol or another of the aas products that increase RBC along with the ECA stack, a definate no-no!!!!!
the last thing i want if taking something that increases heart rate is a product that increases RBC.


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## stealthmeister (Nov 23, 2005)

Hey Steve....probably don't need to worry at that BP, but keep in mind that a resting BP may be well below what it is when fully charged with ephed and caffeine and lifting. Some people with family histories of such problems or congenital connective tissue problems like Marfan's disease, Ehlers Danlos, etc. are very prone to aortic rupture.  Intracranial hemmorhage / hemorrhagic strokes in the brain are more commonly seen from high BP emergencies than aortic rupture.

DR / Pin......good questions....don't know the answers. It was well over a year ago, just when I was flirting with the idea of AAS, so I didn't pay particular attention to what AAS or doses he was using.  The guy was a complete asshole though, so must've been something very androgenic...or maybe it was just his baseline personality. The ECA was 400 caffeine, 50 ephed, and 325 ASA...that I do remember, because they were all familiar drugs and I remember envisioning what that would do to me!

Stealth.


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## steve0085 (Nov 23, 2005)

isn't a good dose 25mg ephederine, 200 caffeine, and a baby asprin?


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## stealthmeister (Nov 23, 2005)

steve0085 said:
			
		

> isn't a good dose 25mg ephederine, 200 caffeine, and a baby asprin?


I don't know if there is such a thing as a "good" dose of this mix, but what you propose would certainly be more reasonable. Again, be even more careful if you have BP issues already on a heavy bulking stack with lots of estro., etc. or have kidney problems, etc.

Hey Pin.....I know many AAS are stated to increase RBC mass, but are there any others besides Eq and Anadrol that are considered to greatly increase RBC production in practical / high-dose use, such as those used by people here?


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## DragonRider (Nov 23, 2005)

steve0085 said:
			
		

> isn't a good dose 25mg ephederine, 200 caffeine, and a baby asprin?


Yes, that is twice as much as he needed.


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## mrxplosive (Nov 27, 2005)

The ban was overturned by a federal judge in Utah. I buy eca stacks at the local supplemet store, but the selection is very small now. It is perfectly legal to buy and sell as a weight loss aid, but due to the risk of lawsuits and the potential for the ban to be reinstated, most companies pulled out of producing it again. Ephedra is still available and legal as a weight loss aid, see following:


Judge strikes down FDA ban on ephedra
By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAY
A federal judge in Utah on Thursday struck down at least part of a government ban on ephedra, a popular weight-loss supplement pulled from the market a year ago because of safety concerns.
U.S. District Judge Tena Campbell sided with a Utah-based company that challenged the Food and Drug Administration's ban in April 2004 on the herbal supplement, which has been linked to 155 deaths and thousands of adverse reactions, including heart attacks and strokes. The death in February 2003 of Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler was tied to his use of the supplement.

Campbell's ruling appears to allow Solaray, a subsidiary of Nutraceutical, to sell "a dietary supplement containing 10 (milligrams) or less of ephedrine alkaloids per daily dose." She sent the matter to the FDA "for further rulemaking consistent with the court's opinion."

Solaray, which had manufactured an ephedra supplement since 1988, sued last May. It said that the herb "has been safely consumed" for hundreds of years and that the FDA had not proved that doses under 10 milligrams are harmful.

The lawsuit also argued that the FDA's ruling applied the more stringent standards designed to regulate drugs, Nutraceutical President Bruce Hough said. Legally, supplements are considered a type of food and do not have to meet the same requirements that drug manufacturers face, he said.

FDA spokeswoman Kim Rawlings said the agency is "evaluating the decision."

A dietary supplement industry group that supported the FDA's original ban was quick to say the ruling was not a complete overturning of the ephedra ban. Many ephedra products had considerably more than 10 milligrams per dose.

The standard that companies can't market dietary supplements "that pose a significant or unreasonable risk of illness or injury" still stands, said Steven Mister, president of the Council for Responsible Nutrition, a supplement industry trade association.

Ephedra had been widely used for weight loss and bodybuilding. But the FDA found those benefits temporary and insufficient to outweigh the health risks.

Hough said the company has no immediate plans to begin selling the supplement again. "This was not filed because of our desire to sell ephedra, but because FDA set a standard that would have long-term ramifications for many products sold within the nutritional supplement industry," he said.


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## stealthmeister (Nov 27, 2005)

Nice post.  Good info. to help clarify the current status with ephed in the US.


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## Captain Canuck (Dec 18, 2005)

I have never used Ephedrine and I wanted to know if I can use it after a cycle or should it be taken with a cycle???? 

If so how much would you suggest I take per day??

Thanks guys if you can give me some advice on this I do not trust the internet site where there selling it. And the pharmaceutical will not give you advice on this stuff.


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## DragonRider (Dec 18, 2005)

Captain Canuck said:
			
		

> I have never used Ephedrine and I wanted to know if I can use it after a cycle or should it be taken with a cycle????
> 
> If so how much would you suggest I take per day??
> 
> Thanks guys if you can give me some advice on this I do not trust the internet site where there selling it. And the pharmaceutical will not give you advice on this stuff.


You can use it during or after. The ECA stack is similar to clenbuterol in that it preserves muscle while you are dieting.

I recommend 1 tablet twice a day. If you tolerate it well, you can go to three times a day, but most people develop severe sleep problems at that level.


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## mr.nitrofish (Dec 19, 2005)

.


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## Captain Canuck (Dec 19, 2005)

DragonRider said:
			
		

> You can use it during or after. The ECA stack is similar to clenbuterol in that it preserves muscle while you are dieting.
> 
> I recommend 1 tablet twice a day. If you tolerate it well, you can go to three times a day, but most people develop severe sleep problems at that level.





Thanks Drangon rider!!!!


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