# Belly Fat Help!



## PreacherMan (Feb 20, 2014)

Hey guys, its been a few months.  Doing my Test only cycle right now.  Running Test Prop (wanted Cyp, but got this free from LF so Zero Complaints).  Quick note on Test Prop form LF:  Great stuff, little irritation, virtually no burn, really feel it.  I am running 100mg every 3 days, seems to work well for me.  

Now.  My lifts have really increased.  My muscles have grown damn good.  Shirt it tight on shoulders, back, arms, chest.  Yeah, its nice.  BUT, I can't do anything with this dang belly fat.  Here is my diet:
0530 - Egg, turkey, on wheat sandwich
0800 - Gym (following 1 hour drive to civilization)
0930 - Shake, can of tuna
1200 - 8oz meat (maybe chicken breast, maybe tuna, maybe a 6 in sub, reasonable!)
1500 - Snack - maybe a protein bar or jerky (1 hour drive home)
1800 - DInner - once again reasonable
2200 - Bed

Any questions?  Now what am I doing wrong?  What can I do better?  This is really getting me because it seems like there is progress, but no where near like I would like, or like the rest of my body.  
What can I do?
Give me your best guys, I need help!


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## Phoe2006 (Feb 20, 2014)

Are you doing any cardio? Drop the bread. I hardly do cardio but usually I have really high intensity workouts moving from just an example tri's to bi's and back to tri's. Other than that I don't see much else but I'm no bodybuilder like others on this board who might have more insight.


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## PreacherMan (Feb 20, 2014)

Yeah, I hit cardio daily.  I do gym in the morning, and then in the evening when I get home I hit my run. I am trying something new this week with my "Switch Week".  Usually I work one area daily (Mon-Chest; Tues - Legs; Wed - Back; Thur - Shoulders; Fri - Arms; abs done MWF)  This week a friend recommended I try something different since I missed MOnday.  This is what I have been doing this week, its different but nice.  
Tues - Chest/Back
Wed - Legs/ abs/ Hard cardio (stair master)
Thurs - Shoulder/Arms
Fri - Chest/ Back/ Legs (lighter) - Hard Cardio

This is his normal routine.  Its okay.  Figured I would try it this week.  He does lots of super sets.  Which I will probably incorporate into by regular routine.


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## Phoe2006 (Feb 20, 2014)

I know someone will chime in soon for you to further help you out. When I hired a well known personal trainer he told me only to avoid starches and breads specifically as well as pastas.


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## PreacherMan (Feb 20, 2014)

Yeah, I am shocked Magnus or Iron hasn't commented yet.  Waiting. . . ha ha  

I am damn near ready to try anything! well almost anything.


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## Phoe2006 (Feb 20, 2014)

Yea I'm sure they'll chime in shortly


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## Sully (Feb 20, 2014)

Skip the starchy carbs and replace them with green veggies. I don't see much in the way of good quality fats in there either. A handful of nuts once or twice a day. Also, skip the protein bar. Those things are usually full of crap. 

Flip your gym routine around. Try LISS cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, and weight training at night. Add about 15-20 minutes of high intensity cardio immediately after weight training. Finally, lower the weight on all your lifts and increase the reps. Shoot for the 20-25 rep range on all lifts.


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## PreacherMan (Feb 20, 2014)

Unfortunately I cannot switch my weight training to night time due to how my day has to go.  I live over an hour from town, so I take my son to school and spend the day in town doing the necessities of the day.  At night, go home with son and prepare for evening when the wife gets home and then I can run.  By that time little small town USA has all but closed down. 
But as far as the rest of the advice, CHECK.  I'll give it a shot.  I usually do hit HIIT cardio MWF, but i'll add it every day.  
Thanks.


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## lycan Venom (Feb 20, 2014)

It's time for jillian  micheals, dr. Oz, dr. Sanjay gupta or dr. Phill books ... rofl

Abdominal body fat, the one thing everyone doesn't want and will try everything to get rid of it...

Can't do anything but change your diet. We cant target it... but, clinical studies have shown that Anavar (oxandrolone) actually can help with abdominal body fat shedding.

Research.... and try it.. it worked for me.

Clenbuterol, caffeine, ephedrine and even peppers to boost your metabolism.


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## formula1069 (Feb 20, 2014)

Dnp :d


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## Sully (Feb 20, 2014)

lycan Venom said:


> It's time for jillian  micheals, dr. Oz, dr. Sanjay gupta or dr. Phill books ... rofl
> 
> Abdominal body fat, the one thing everyone doesn't want and will try everything to get rid of it...
> 
> ...



You got a link to that study about Anavar? I did a quick search but couldn't come up with anything.


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## Jim550 (Feb 20, 2014)

First off you are not eating enough, and secondly eliminate all bread. Also watch your condiments and you didn't say anything about what your drinking...


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## Jim550 (Feb 20, 2014)

I would also eliminate carbohydrates from your last 2-3 meals. Just lean protein,healthy fats, and greens in these meals.


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## d2r2ddd (Feb 21, 2014)

keto or LCHF diet

https://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf


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## humpthebobcat (Feb 21, 2014)

wind sprints! look at long distance runners..kinda flabby (i think the cortisol from stress of long distance makes u hold a little more bodyfat), however, look at sprinters...some freakin cut up dudes...not sure of the mechanism of action (or if its just the juice ha) but probably something with the metabolism....

speaking of metabolism you can take the advice from that NM guy....iodine, cold showers, standing on your head, snacking all day... all supposed to get the thyroid cranking out the juice full speed ahead

whats that other old saying? prolly gonna butcher it...eat like a king for breakfast a prince for lunch and a pauper for dinner (sounds like u might be doing it the other way around)..i hope you dont mean a single egg LOL

my breakfast is something like this...2 packs of oatmeal, 4 pieces of bacon, 4 eggs, salsa, alvocado, a bananna, a orange, glass of chocolate almond milk, cup of coffee, maybe a english muffin or bagel with coconut oil spread (feels like im forgetting something)....and I stay pretty damn lean


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## Magnus82 (Feb 21, 2014)

Hey preacher.  Glad to see you posting again.   Unless you are no stranger to to bulking dieting game,  you really need to first track your calories. Too many, of course you won't loose weight.  Too little,  you risk going into survival/starvation mmode talking your metabolism.  Track it with myfitnesspal app.   See the macro breakdown and calories on post for us to see.   Also,  different forms of cardio effect people differently.   Find the one that works best for you and go with it,  but also incorporate other forms as well.   Stepmill/running,  sprinting/tabata,  and walking are all different levels of cardio and should be utilized.  Personally, increasing intensity in my liftng has always made a noticeable difference for me. Dropsets, supersets, rest pause, and widow makers are all great tools to not only burn more calories,  but increase lean hard muscle mass.   Nothing burns fat faster than dense hard muscle.   There is also nutrient timeing,  but that can be later addressed once your caloric I take and macros have been established.   There is also supplementation as well.   Dnp,  t3, clen,  eac stack...   If you are new to these,  I would suggest the eac stack.   It is arguably the safest route and can be purchased at Walmart.   Simple and effective.  Use the search function on here and fun a post by Shelby Starnes,  "2 weeks till shredded".  This would be a great plan to follow to see rapid results.


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## lycan Venom (Feb 21, 2014)

Lil' Sully said:


> You got a link to that study about Anavar? I did a quick search but couldn't come up with anything.



This is where I initially found out.

Anavar - Steroid.com

The references used are below. 

Referencesroj Inf Perspect. 1997 Nov;(23):19.Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/84/8/2705Segal S, Cooper J, Bolognia J., Treatment of lipodermatosclerosis with oxandrolone in a patient withstanozolol-induced hepatotoxicity., J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Sep;43(3):558-9Demling RH., Oxandrolone, an*anabolic steroid, enhances the healing of a cutaneous wound in the rat., Wound Repair Regen 2000 Mar-Apr;8(2):97-102J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Oct;89(10):4863-72.Demling RH, Orgill DP., The anticatabolic and wound healing effects of the testosterone analog oxandrolone after severe burn injury., J Crit Care 2000 Mar;15(1):12-7Hart DW, Wolf SE, Ramzy PI, Chinkes DL, Beauford RB, Ferrando AA, Wolfe RR, Herndon DN., Anabolic effects of oxandrolone after severe burn., Ann Surg 2001 Apr;233(4):556-64Demling RH, DeSanti L., The rate of restoration of body weight after burn injury, using the anabolic agent oxandrolone, is not age dependent., Burns 2001 Feb;27(1):46-51Demling RH, DeSanti L., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, significantly increases the rate of weight gain in the recovery phase after major burns., J Trauma 1997 Jul;43(1):47-51Papadimitriou A, Preece MA, Rolland-Cachera MF, Stanhope R., The anabolic steroid oxandrolone increases muscle mass in prepubertal boys with constitutional delay of growth., J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab 2001 Jun;14(6):725-7Doeker B, Muller-Michaels J, Andler W, Induction of early puberty in a boy after treatment with oxandrolone? Horm Res 1998;50(1):46-8J Appl Physiol 96: 1055-1062, 2004. First published October 24, 2003; doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.00808.2003 8750-7587/04James JS., Wasting syndrome: oral oxandrolone re-released in U.S., AIDS Treat News 1995 Dec 22;(no 237):3-4Drugs. 2004;64(7):725-50.Mt Sinai J Med. 1999 May;66(3):201-5.

Additionally, william Llewellyn would have the most info.. I personally think.


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## Slate23 (Feb 21, 2014)

Carbs only around workout times, drink only water (including in your low or no carb protein drink), high intensity workouts, sprinting and ECA stack. Wash, rinse and repeat.


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## ParanoidFitness (Feb 21, 2014)

Lil' Sully said:


> Also, skip the protein bar. Those things are usually full of crap.




:yeahthat:

Add a shot EVOO to your shake.


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

And this is why I come here!  Give it a day and I have tangible stuff with research.  I hate "bro science" from all those retards at the gym.  Trust me, my gym has more "great knowledge" that is absolutely more useless than congress!

Magnus:  I got the myfitnesspal app.  It says my daily net calorie goal is 2,740 and that I should lost 5 lbs by march 28.  Guess that is alright.  Its a start.  But then again that is diet alone, not taking into account weight training.  As far as the tren, clen, dnp, eac - I will be looking into eac first, no experience with Tren, Clen, Dnp.  
I am incorporating Supersets from now on.  I have done them this week (first time ever going a whole week with them), and I liked it. Been stepping up the stair master this week, and running more in the evening.  
Coming off the fall/winter bulk.  Just didn't think I would have so much trouble with this damn belly.  

Jim: My Water intake: probably about 1.5-2 Gallons a day.  I'm thirsty a lot. As far as diet goes, I eat Deer, Chicken, Fish, little pork (very little).  Carbs though are an issue, we have lots of pasta in my family.  Slowly changing that.  Winter brings in the pasta.  Spring brings out the grill more, less pasta, less carbs.  Guess its a good time of the year for this 

Medical Issue: Fatty Liver.  Gotta lose weight, doc can't prescribe anything to accelerate because I am not "Morbidly Obese".  But then he tells me to find something.  So yeah.  He wouldn't recommend anything either, says most of the good things require a prescription.  
So I will be checking out the: sac stack <--wal-mart  $20.00  Yeah I'm down for that

Lycan: I will look into the Anavar thing.  Gotta research that.  Thanks for the link!  

Formula1069(Great name): DNP - gonna look at that too.  Obviously not do all the above at one time, might get some crazy results, then again, might have bad outcomes.  Not my cup.  Research!  Thanks for the input there.  

Humpthebobcat: Yeah I won't be chasing down a bobcat ha ha.  Yes it would seem I am backwards.  I eat about 4 eggs in the morning.  The problem I have is that I am not hungry that early.  Guess I will try a force feeding method.  Read about that in regards to eating more in the morning for weight loss.  So I;m gonna try it.  

If I missed anyone, I apologize and mean no disrespect.  It's good to be back on here after my few months gone.  Personal things, medical crap, moves, holidays. Great time!


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

And this is why I come here!  Give it a day and I have tangible stuff with research.  I hate "bro science" from all those retards at the gym.  Trust me, my gym has more "great knowledge" that is absolutely more useless than congress!

Magnus:  I got the myfitnesspal app.  It says my daily net calorie goal is 2,740 and that I should lost 5 lbs by march 28.  Guess that is alright.  Its a start.  But then again that is diet alone, not taking into account weight training.  As far as the tren, clen, dnp, eac - I will be looking into eac first, no experience with Tren, Clen, Dnp.  
I am incorporating Supersets from now on.  I have done them this week (first time ever going a whole week with them), and I liked it. Been stepping up the stair master this week, and running more in the evening.  
Coming off the fall/winter bulk.  Just didn't think I would have so much trouble with this damn belly.  

Jim: My Water intake: probably about 1.5-2 Gallons a day.  I'm thirsty a lot. As far as diet goes, I eat Deer, Chicken, Fish, little pork (very little).  Carbs though are an issue, we have lots of pasta in my family.  Slowly changing that.  Winter brings in the pasta.  Spring brings out the grill more, less pasta, less carbs.  Guess its a good time of the year for this 

Medical Issue: Fatty Liver.  Gotta lose weight, doc can't prescribe anything to accelerate because I am not "Morbidly Obese".  But then he tells me to find something.  So yeah.  He wouldn't recommend anything either, says most of the good things require a prescription.  
So I will be checking out the: sac stack <--wal-mart  $20.00  Yeah I'm down for that

Lycan: I will look into the Anavar thing.  Gotta research that.  Thanks for the link!  

Formula1069(Great name): DNP - gonna look at that too.  Obviously not do all the above at one time, might get some crazy results, then again, might have bad outcomes.  Not my cup.  Research!  Thanks for the input there.  

Humpthebobcat: Yeah I won't be chasing down a bobcat ha ha.  Yes it would seem I am backwards.  I eat about 4 eggs in the morning.  The problem I have is that I am not hungry that early.  Guess I will try a force feeding method.  Read about that in regards to eating more in the morning for weight loss.  So I;m gonna try it.  

If I missed anyone, I apologize and mean no disrespect.  It's good to be back on here after my few months gone.  Personal things, medical crap, moves, holidays. Great time!


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

In case anyone missed it:
Fatty Liver Disease (nonalcoholic)
Anyone know of anything that speeds up fat lose IN the liver?  Heard of a B-12 mixture that might.  Can't figure out the mixture, or where I read this at.  DR said this might effect my overall fat loss.


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## ParanoidFitness (Feb 21, 2014)

PreacherMan said:


> In case anyone missed it:
> Fatty Liver Disease (nonalcoholic)



Have you read this yet?

Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

Paranoid: Yes I have read this.  Its good.  I was in the medical field (combat medic, nurse) for 8 years; so I am always on Mayo.  Unfortunately Mayo is limited in areas that many of the guys on here are not.  I was diagnosed with FLD 4 years ago (give or take) and by looking at my labs, the DR figured I had it way before that.  My grandfather died from it.  So obviously I am trying to kick this thing.  Visceral Fat (belly) is the worse kind, and causes more medical issues than any other kind.  FLD exacerbates this because the Liver is already compensating.  The benefit I have is that my DR knows everything about me: History, what goes in my body, goals, fears, what I am willing to do.  He is supportive and on board.  SO anything I find, I bounce off him (obviously with research done), and he will do some research and see as well.  
Basically guys, and on a very serious note:
I want to see my son grow up.  Best estimations with Ultra Sound place my liver between 50-60% Fat.  Hate to get serious like this.  But I'm a little emotional about this.  (HA HA, so much for High Test causing temper issues, myth BUSTED)

You guys are awesome!


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

Anavar - Great read!  Interesting.  Gonna chat with DR.


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## ParanoidFitness (Feb 21, 2014)

PreacherMan said:


> I was in the medical field (combat medic, nurse) for 8 years



Thank you for your service.:sSig_thankyou::sSig_thankyou:


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

Magnus - Found that "2 weeks to shred".  Great article.  I like that.  That actually makes sense.


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## Sully (Feb 21, 2014)

I would be a little hesitant about the Anavar if u have FLD. Oral AAS put stress on the liver, even the milder ones like Anavar. Might not be the smartest thing to do for someone that already had diagnosable liver issues. No need to exacerbate a known issue.


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

Yeah, DR said laughably "I would rather see methods that don't go directly through your liver, even though some anavar is not really touched by the liver."

I loved the "don't go directly through the liver".  Good Dr.  funny.  Subtle ha ha


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## humpthebobcat (Feb 21, 2014)

diabetic?


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

Nope, no diabetes.  Just Fatty liver.  Which is apparently pretty common, just not with my fat level.


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## humpthebobcat (Feb 21, 2014)

if it were me...I would go on the bill clinton whole foods veggie diet until my body returned to health (did you see his before and after cardiac angiogram? absofcukinglutely amazing transformation)...worth a try


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## PreacherMan (Feb 21, 2014)

I'll look that up


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## humpthebobcat (Feb 21, 2014)

also look up the gerson therapy! really amazing german/jewish doctor that cured people from any know disease even tuberculosis and cancer...most notable for his work curing cancer....with organic fruit and vegetable juice, distilled water, and organic coffee enemas...the enemas were supposed to flush the liver free from toxins i believe which might be of interest to ya


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## AtomAnt (Feb 21, 2014)

Well, some suggestions, reduce the amount of dietary fat and the fat you do consume should be high in polyunsaturated fats.  This medical review provides some guidelines: http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cl...eam/nutrition-articles/NaniwadekarArticle.pdf

Additionally, this full text review compares the effects of various diets on patients diagnosed with NAFLD:  Comparative review of diets for the metabolic syndrome: implications for nonalcoholic fatty liver disease

Taken from that review, "here is no consensus as to what diet or lifestyle approach is the right one for NAFLD and NASH patients, largely because of a lack of scientific evidence. It is likely that there will be no one correct approach for all NAFLD patients, and diets will therefore need to be tailored to individual needs. The inclusion of n−3 fatty acids, high-MUFA foods, fruit, vegetables, and low-GI, high-fiber foods and reduced intakes of saturated fats, simple carbohydrates, and sweetened drinks may be universally recommended to NAFLD patients."

Some additional advice from a Duke physician is here: Clinician Q&A: Fighting Fatty Liver Disease - DukeHealth.org

It appears that reducing overall caloric intake, reducing saturated fats, refined sugars, foods high in fructose which eating polyunsaturated fats, losing weight and incorporating more vitamin e into your routine tend to be beneficial. Also, inflammatory foods, from the reviews, tend to be harmful in patients with NAFLD.  I would suggest going gluten free as to reduce the inflammatory effects of wheat. 

Hopefully these lead you in the right direction


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## lycan Venom (Feb 21, 2014)

Yeah dont do anavar. Im sorry, I didnt know.


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## The Grim Repper (Feb 21, 2014)

You mentioned not being hungry that early in the morning.  If you eat your last meal at 1800 (6pm) you should be starving after waking.
I say like Jim mentioned, unless you're 120 lbs, you need to eat more, drop processed carbs and replace them with green/fibrous veggies and healthy fats like nuts and healthy oils.  Avoid oral AAS like the plague, if you have NAFL then those will not be good.


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## ParanoidFitness (Feb 21, 2014)

When it comes to that belly fat no one's mentioned liposuction...just sayin" 

I didn't mention earlier that my brother has the same NAFLD.
He doesn't drink.
He also avoids NSAIDS as well as any medication that's liver-toxic.
He pretty much doesn't take any medication and would never think of running any AAS, let alone oral. 

With your medical training you're aware of the do's and dont's.


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## mrlol (Feb 28, 2014)

ParanoidFitness said:


> When it comes to that belly fat no one's mentioned liposuction...just sayin"




ha.ha. very funny :naughty1:
lol.


How about Intermittent fasting ?

New research is quickly finding intermittent fasting to have more purpose than just to those who do it religiously.

Increased fat loss, increased HGH (whaattt??), reducing oxidative stress, eliminate cravings, lower high triglyceride levels, etc.

Intermittent Fasting

Also worth a read is High-Intensity Interval Training

High-Intensity Interval Training and Intermittent Fasting - A Winning Combo.



Dr Mercola always has great articles


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## d2r2ddd (Mar 1, 2014)

Thks for the link mrlol


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## Alinshop (Mar 1, 2014)

Lil' Sully said:


> Skip the starchy carbs and replace them with green veggies. I don't see much in the way of good quality fats in there either. A handful of nuts once or twice a day. Also, skip the protein bar. Those things are usually full of crap.
> 
> Flip your gym routine around. Try LISS cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, and weight training at night. Add about 15-20 minutes of high intensity cardio immediately after weight training. Finally, lower the weight on all your lifts and increase the reps. Shoot for the 20-25 rep range on all lifts.




I couldn't have said it better myself! Perfect advice:headbang:


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