# Should I aromatize on Raloxifene???



## Tim Zane (Aug 22, 2018)

So if you know me on here, I've been basically posting a lot of questions as I am on my first ever cycle - testosterone only.  I have some slight swelling which only noticeable to me, but I do have a small tiny lump behind my right nipple.  I have been taking 120mg Ralox for the last 5 days. 

Question: Should I still be feeling irritation while on because when it comes evening every day my right nipple never fails to start a very annoying sensation which radiates out.  It kinda feels hot.  I thought this would stop on Ralox.  I started taking Nolva with it yesterday but is this overkill?  

The Nolva, Arimidex, and now Ralox have not stopped this aromatization it seems.  Could the only answer be to lower my 500mg of test a week? 



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## Sully (Aug 22, 2018)

Wait, you need to clarify something. Are you using Nolvadex, Arimidex, and Roloxifene all at the same time? If so, what dose are you using for each?


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## custom creation (Aug 22, 2018)

Sully said:


> Wait, you need to clarify something. Are you using Nolvadex, Arimidex, and Roloxifene all at the same time? If so, what dose are you using for each?



I hope not!


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## Tim Zane (Aug 22, 2018)

Yeah!

I have been doing .5 Adx and 20mg Nolva daily.  Then I have had this issue and now I got Raloxifene hoping to reverse this or at least stop it further.  

Help me out....

Should I just lower the T?  I seem to be the only one with this problem and issues at the doses I'm at. 

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## custom creation (Aug 22, 2018)

What dose of test are you running a week?


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## thumos (Aug 22, 2018)

I try never to run any AI at all. I can go up to about 400 test with no probs...then add non-aromatizing compounds if you need more.


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## Tim Zane (Aug 22, 2018)

custom creation said:


> What dose of test are you running a week?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


500 cyp

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## Sully (Aug 22, 2018)

Why did you add different compounds to control e2 instead of just increasing your dose of Arimidex?


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## Tim Zane (Aug 22, 2018)

Because .5mg daily is a grip of Arimidex already. And with that I'm at a 36 Estradiol.  I haven't read anywhere where anybody takes that much Arimidex.

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## Sully (Aug 22, 2018)

Ok, so now I’m even more confused. You’ve had bloodwork done that says that your estradiol is within a perfectly normal range? What were you taking, and how much, when that bloodwork was done? And why are you still so concerned about it, considering it’s pretty much right where it’s supposed to be? If you go much lower with it you run the risk of going too low and causing a bunch of other untoward effects. It’s great that you had bloodwork done, though. I’ll commend you for that. 

And 1mg of Arimidex daily is a pretty standard dose for a lot of guys. I’m not sure why you think it’s better to add 2 more compounds to control estrogen than to just up the dose of 1? 

I’m not trying to dog you buddy, but you’re really giving off the impression that you did very little research before you started this cycle. There just doesn’t seem to be much of a logical thought process behind why you’re doing what you’re doing.


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## Tim Zane (Aug 23, 2018)

I get you're just trying to tell me what's up, it's all good.  My thing is so many people told me they take .25 Adx 3x a week etc. and I haven't seen anyone on multiple boards who is up to  .5mg ED.  I have been talking the Nolva throughout the cycle to block any gyno symptoms but it hasn't worked it seems.  I researched Ralox and it seems it is the superior SERM especially on cycle to block and even reverse gyno.   And if my estradiol is 36 why the heck am I aromatizing so much??? Can people aromatize even with low E?

I actually did do my research and being just a simple test only cycle I thought it would go much smoother.  I have been non-stop researching for months.  From what the feedback and reading I've done, I thought I had things together... I appreciate your thoughts /input. 

I'm going to gets bloods drawn Saturday to see if anything has changed since the last test which was about 4-5 weeks ago. Maybe that will help clear some things up. 

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## Sully (Aug 23, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> I get you're just trying to tell me what's up, it's all good.  My thing is so many people told me they take .25 Adx 3x a week etc. and I haven't seen anyone on multiple boards who is up to  .5mg ED.  I have been talking the Nolva throughout the cycle to block any gyno symptoms but it hasn't worked it seems.  I researched Ralox and it seems it is the superior SERM especially on cycle to block and even reverse gyno.   And if my estradiol is 36 why the heck am I aromatizing so much??? Can people aromatize even with low E?
> 
> I actually did do my research and being just a simple test only cycle I thought it would go much smoother.  I have been non-stop researching for months.  From what the feedback and reading I've done, I thought I had things together... I appreciate your thoughts /input.
> 
> ...



Perhaps I missed it earlier, but what makes you so convinced that your dealing with excess aromatization? If your bloodwork says that you’re in range there’s not really much to worry about. As I said earlier, if you suppress your e2 much lower you run the definite possibility of having sexual side effects. Basically, you crush e2 and your peepee stops working properly. 

What were you on when you had your bloodwork done, and at what dose? 1 mg daily of Arimidex is a pretty standard dose. Personally, I prefer Aromasin, but there’s nothing really wrong with Arimidex; my body just like Aromasin better.


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## Tim Zane (Aug 24, 2018)

I was on the same 500mg test. Is it possible since I've been eating to gain size from this that my body fat went up so it's affected me this way? 





Sully said:


> Perhaps I missed it earlier, but what makes you so convinced that your dealing with excess aromatization? If your bloodwork says that you’re in range there’s not really much to worry about. As I said earlier, if you suppress your e2 much lower you run the definite possibility of having sexual side effects. Basically, you crush e2 and your peepee stops working properly.
> 
> What were you on when you had your bloodwork done, and at what dose? 1 mg daily of Arimidex is a pretty standard dose. Personally, I prefer Aromasin, but there’s nothing really wrong with Arimidex; my body just like Aromasin better.



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## custom creation (Aug 24, 2018)

I’m wondering the same thing!  Are your convinced this is happening because of puffyness around the nipple, are they sore, etc?
  Excess bodyfat on a not so healthy diet would increase the appearance of it! What were your exact signs that made you feel you needed to run Ralox on top of the other two?


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## Tim Zane (Aug 24, 2018)

Here is a pic from right now. Every evening they start to feel hot and an odd sensation radiates outward. It's uncomfortable and annoying but I wouldn't say it's painful.  I can feel a small bb type lump behind it also. Can you aromatize even though estrogen is low? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## custom creation (Aug 24, 2018)

I don’t see any lump personally!  Some may disagree with me, but if it were my body and I was worried about it, I would stop taking the test and see if it stops being irritable!  I would also go with aromasin and drop the others!  If it is Gyno, maybe it can reverse the effects


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## ketsugo (Aug 25, 2018)

Always keep a spare supply of tamoxifen and adex . Never cycle without . Now tamoxifen is old school much weaker than the stuff popular now . However it’s site specific meaning it targets the mammary glands . Personally I always use low dose . It don’t stop cold estrogen like say adex or letro aromasin but hey 20 plus cycles now never any gyno or aromatization sides. Better to be safe . I keep cigar box with certain meds lol tamoxifen/ novaldex is one right up there with a bomb tabs


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## ketsugo (Aug 25, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> Yeah!
> 
> I have been doing .5 Adx and 20mg Nolva daily.  Then I have had this issue and now I got Raloxifene hoping to reverse this or at least stop it further.
> 
> ...





Adex usually take eod that’s how I do and novaldex can take low as 10mg or higher if you got sides . Though your pic I see no puffiness . Are your nips sensitive? Ya know we all respond differently . While I personally never had sides. Your not unusual for having any . Many guys get sides . Just tell us more like did I miss how long doses of everything? Any other medication you may take ( as some meds May have estrogen or prolactin sides


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## ketsugo (Aug 25, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> I get you're just trying to tell me what's up, it's all good.  My thing is so many people told me they take .25 Adx 3x a week etc. and I haven't seen anyone on multiple boards who is up to  .5mg ED.  I have been talking the Nolva throughout the cycle to block any gyno symptoms but it hasn't worked it seems.  I researched Ralox and it seems it is the superior SERM especially on cycle to block and even reverse gyno.   And if my estradiol is 36 why the heck am I aromatizing so much??? Can people aromatize even with low E?
> 
> I actually did do my research and being just a simple test only cycle I thought it would go much smoother.  I have been non-stop researching for months.  From what the feedback and reading I've done, I thought I had things together... I appreciate your thoughts /input.
> 
> ...





Yeah you need labs . Plus again what sides are you having as again your chest looks fine . There is always chance your AI is bunk - hopefully not but you are taking good dose or more then one compound . Also never mind if anyone else takes test with no sides . Including me . You are you .


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## ketsugo (Aug 25, 2018)

Sully said:


> Perhaps I missed it earlier, but what makes you so convinced that your dealing with excess aromatization? If your bloodwork says that you’re in range there’s not really much to worry about. As I said earlier, if you suppress your e2 much lower you run the definite possibility of having sexual side effects. Basically, you crush e2 and your peepee stops working properly.
> 
> 
> 
> What were you on when you had your bloodwork done, and at what dose? 1 mg daily of Arimidex is a pretty standard dose. Personally, I prefer Aromasin, but there’s nothing really wrong with Arimidex; my body just like Aromasin better.





Lol I just caught up I think sully and I are on same track . I double everything he has posted. Again though we have experience but also always remember we all respond differently so nothing wrong with ya ! Maybe you are one of those guys sensitive to hormone support . Though maybe your diet too ! As correct me as I’m trying like sully to understand seems like first you posted pic but looks normal , then you say gaining fat . Which could all be totally normal. Labs will tell the tale. Just hear this diet is like 85% of bodybuilding. Then training . Personally I think taking AAS makes more people look fatter cuz they don’t eat clean . Myself I’m abnormal since a child I hated flour pastry fried etc. even birthdays never once ate cake . Now at 53 I’ve trained since age 12. Natural to my mid 30s . I’m in best shape of life , but again it’s been a lifetime. If you want to gain but look leaner just adjust what you eat . It may be ( hopefully) that simple . Unless your AI are fake you are taking more then most people need . However my impression is your more worried about the fat gain ? Maybe thinking it’s estrogen? Definitely get labs . If everything is in check then tell us more of how you eat . How many days do you train ? How long have you ect. Also if it’s too personal I’m sure sully as well as anyone ( and myself ) would help you figure things out.


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## ketsugo (Aug 25, 2018)

custom creation said:


> Iâ€™m wondering the same thing!  Are your convinced this is happening because of puffyness around the nipple, are they sore, etc?
> Excess bodyfat on a not so healthy diet would increase the appearance of it! What were your exact signs that made you feel you needed to run Ralox on top of the other two?





Wow again I’m catching up after I posted . So yup TZ listen to all I think we all agree . I don’t see anything. The sensation could also be pinched nerve etc . I think maybe tell us more again of your diet .though if you got labs already post . Good luck


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## Tim Zane (Aug 25, 2018)

So I went to get labs this morning after fasting since 8 pm and the place was packed tight!  I didn't have an hour to sit there so I'll go Wednesday after my pin on Sunday. 

My diet fluctuates, hard to state exactly what I eat because it's strict bodybuilder food (chicken, rice, veggies, oatmeal) one day and then just getting calories from whatever when I don't have time to cook or get stuck at work for extended periods of time.  If I was able to clean my diet up I know I wouldn't have this problem.  At week 4 everything was good, but now that I'm on week 9 and I know I've gained fat and I believe this is my problem - too high of body fat. I'm learning through this and now know the importance of having a clean diet even if it's just a testosterone cycle. 

I have always been of the opinion that lifting is 70% of it, but now realize I need to reverse that as nutrition is.  I have never really been super strict on my diet and have had great gains.  If I cleaned my diet up who knows how much improvement I could make. 



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## Tim Zane (Aug 25, 2018)

Here a pic from last week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## Sully (Aug 28, 2018)

This


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## Sparkss (Nov 20, 2018)

I also prefer aromasin over adex. IMO you should stick with the ralox over the other serms. Ralox has been used in multiple studies to reverse long existing gyno with good results (like 85% or 90% success rate). I use it when on a heavy aromatazing cycle, or if it is a compound that can't be controlled by a normal AI (like some nandrolones that aromataze to methyl-estro, if I recall). It has reversed gyno in me and since then as a staple has kept me from getting gyno, even when my estro went too high.


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## SURGE (Nov 23, 2018)

You are making your issue worse by just throwing drugs at it. Your estrogen was in range so you don't need 1 ai and 2 serms. Even if your estrogen was high you wouldn't need all 3! I prefer aromasin but arimidex is fine and you can run either on cycle. Always have a serm on hand. Running all 3 will cause problems.


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## Tim Zane (Nov 27, 2018)

Sparkss said:


> I also prefer aromasin over adex. IMO you should stick with the ralox over the other serms. Ralox has been used in multiple studies to reverse long existing gyno with good results (like 85% or 90% success rate). I use it when on a heavy aromatazing cycle, or if it is a compound that can't be controlled by a normal AI (like some nandrolones that aromataze to methyl-estro, if I recall). It has reversed gyno in me and since then as a staple has kept me from getting gyno, even when my estro went too high.


How much Ralox do you suggest?  I read over 100mg for more than a few months leads to bone demineralization. 

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## Tim Zane (Nov 27, 2018)

So question: Is it impossible to aromatize when estrogen just is low? 

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## Jayd (Nov 27, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> So question: Is it impossible to aromatize when estrogen just is low?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk





Not sure I completely understand the question but I’ll try to answer it. 
You use testosterone, it aromatizes. Your AI, be it Adex or Aromasin kills of or blocks estrogen from binding to the receptors. 
As long as you are putting more test in, you’ll continue to aromatize.
If your asking about getting gyno (estrogen sticking to breast tissue) it is far less likely if estrogen is kept in check with an AI, unless your really gyno prone. 
Hopefully that answered the question. If not someone smarter than me can...


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## striffe (Nov 29, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> So question: Is it impossible to aromatize when estrogen just is low?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Yes you can. Your estrogen may be low now but if you are using test or other steroids you will still aromatize. You will still aromatize using serm's as well as they are selective and don't prevent aromatization. But on 3 estrogen blockers you shouldn't be aromatizing and you are using far too much. You seem obsessed with aromatization. You look better than I expected to be honest. You just need to diet better and stick with arimidex to prevent aromatization when on test.


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## AGGRO (Dec 1, 2018)

I don't understand some people. If I took 3 ai's/serm's I would feel awful. Not sure why some are obsessed with having next to zero estrogen. Estrogen is important and you don't want your levels to be too low. You look good you just need to improve your diet more and you will lose bodyfat and water that way.


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## Gambel (Dec 1, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> So question: Is it impossible to aromatize when estrogen just is low?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk





Yes, test will still aromatize to estrogen, but if the resulting estrogen level is in the normal range, you are fine. The photo of your chest from earlier looks like pseudogynecomstia (aka chest fat) and not actual gyno. 


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## Couchlockd (Dec 2, 2018)

Look, drop every anciliary for the next week. Keep nolva on board at 10mg a day..

Yiu need estrogen in balance with your rising test level to grow,

I recognized your name im sure yiuve seen the thread elsewhere on e2 being very useful, definitely dont want to crush e2


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## Tim Zane (Dec 3, 2018)

AGGRO said:


> I don't understand some people. If I took 3 ai's/serm's I would feel awful. Not sure why some are obsessed with having next to zero estrogen. Estrogen is important and you don't want your levels to be too low. You look good you just need to improve your diet more and you will lose bodyfat and water that way.


Not about keeping it low, but rather stoppingb behind my nipples from burning sensation and feeling irritated. 

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## Tim Zane (Dec 3, 2018)

Well this is an old post, but just an update: Even on 15mg a day, 20 mg Nolva a day, and .5mg Adx 3x wk, I still developed mild gyno.  It wasn't in my head...   


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## SURGE (Dec 3, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> Well this is an old post, but just an update: Even on 15mg a day, 20 mg Nolva a day, and .5mg Adx 3x wk, I still developed mild gyno.  It wasn't in my head...
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Maybe you should try a different sponsor for your Adx and Nolva. What are you using at 15mg per day?


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## Couchlockd (Dec 4, 2018)

You shoul source all anciliary drugs from pharmacy


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## Tim Zane (Dec 4, 2018)

SURGE said:


> Maybe you should try a different sponsor for your Adx and Nolva. What are you using at 15mg per day?


Testosterone Cyp

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## Couchlockd (Dec 4, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> Testosterone Cyp
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Your taking all that for 105mg test per week?


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## Tim Zane (Dec 4, 2018)

Couchlockd said:


> Your taking all that for 105mg test per week?


Yeah. I can't find on any forum or read anywhere where anyone else needs all that for what I'm taking.  I am an anomaly in a bad sense.

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## Couchlockd (Dec 6, 2018)

Tim Zane said:


> Yeah. I can't find on any forum or read anywhere where anyone else needs all that for what I'm taking.  I am an anomaly in a bad sense.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk




If you need all that on 105mg a week I'm going to go out on a limb and say the raloxifene, Nola, and aromasin you have is bunk.

If they aren't bunk, then I don't think test is a good match at all.


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