# Newbie here, first cycle..



## fitness86 (Aug 9, 2013)

Hi everyone, i have read a lot of the materials posted on this forum and found them very informative and helpful, i'm looking forward to doing my first cycle soon. Here is some background on me: i'm 27yo 6'1" and weigh 160lb been training  serious for about a year now by body fat is pretty low probably 10-12%, i've been struggling with gaining weight all my life, so i've finally decided on going trough with this cycle and set my self on the way of achieving my ultimate goal of about 200-210lb of good quality muscle. i'd like to keep my body fat low as it currently is if that's even possible. Any advice would be appreciated..
here is a breakdown of what i'm looking into doing for my first cycle:
week 1:       500mg            #Test E, twice a week, pre-loading
week 2-12:  250mg           #Test E, twice a week
week 3-9:    40-50mg/day # T-bol
week 2-14:  0.25 mg/day  #Anastrozol
week 14-16: PCT#####
Clomid   200mg the first day 50mg every day after

looking forward to hearing your comments/advice


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## mikeystrong (Aug 9, 2013)

You want to gain 50lbs of good solid lean muscle mass... Its not going to happen with a few cycles man, especialy someone who has trouble putting on mass, most likley from a blazing fast metabolism and just genetics. I have a few friends with the same problems. Ive been lifting for 7 years now (5 seriously) and i started at 170, now im around 192 and am very happy with my size strength and physique. Its not going to happen over night. But it will happen! as long as you work for it. I hope a couple of the vetts chime in here and give some solid advice as far as AAS goes. Id say start with Test only cycle tho man, dont rush it.


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## hellbilly (Aug 9, 2013)

fitness86 said:


> Hi everyone, i have read a lot of the materials posted on this forum and found them very informative and helpful, i'm looking forward to doing my first cycle soon. Here is some background on me: i'm 27yo 6'1" and weigh 160lb been training  serious for about a year now by body fat is pretty low probably 10-12%, i've been struggling with gaining weight all my life, so i've finally decided on going trough with this cycle and set my self on the way of achieving my ultimate goal of about 200-210lb of good quality muscle. i'd like to keep my body fat low as it currently is if that's even possible. Any advice would be appreciated..
> here is a breakdown of what i'm looking into doing for my first cycle:
> week 1:       500mg            #Test E, twice a week, pre-loading
> week 2-12:  250mg           #Test E, twice a week
> ...



Dare I say it, you don't need AAS right now. 
What is your diet? Only training seriously a year? Missed any workouts? Not trying to be a dick but I would like more information about your training and your diet before advising someone to use gear after a year of lifting. Have you looked into a couch to help you out? Just trying to help man, I know it can be frustrating obtaining the physique you want but sometimes simple adjustments work before looking to the needle.


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## fitness86 (Aug 9, 2013)

thanks, for your replies guys, i know i haven't had years of serious training under my belt but i've been on and off, not a professional athlete here by any means, but i do want to have a normal/ good body i'm tired of being the skinniest guy in the room, i'm one of those ppl that lose weight by default if i don't put any conscious effort into maintaining it. I do enjoy working out though i've spent a solid year of working out when i've went up to 180lb but half of that was water weight from the creatine i've been taking, over all i got really cut but still very skinny, than i had to take a brake because of very high work load, and lost a good 20lb over 8mo. Now i'm back on schedule and feeling much more motivated than before i've put in several mo of good work at the gym, my workouts are intense but my gains are extremely slow, i know for most of you that have been training for a long time look at this and think this guy just doesn't wanna work for it, but truth is i realized this too late and now when i'm turning 27 i don't wanna spent 5 years to just be the normal weight for my height i'll be more than happy to take my time when i get around those magic 200lb.. 
but anyway back on topic: 
My diet, i supplement the majority of my protein intake which accounts to about 200g/day of 80% whey concentrate split up in about 4 shakes one first thing in the morning one right before workout, one right after, and one before bed, i also use one cup of whole milk and a banana i those shakes i skip the fruit for the one i take before bed, so those 4 shakes come up to about 1800-2k cal per day i also eat my normal meals which vary from day to day for a total of about 3000-3500 cal per day.. i know this diet is probably far from optimal but i'm a little constricted on time because of other arrangements a have. 
Workouts: day 1 chest, bi and abs
day 2: back, tri and abs 
day 3: shoulder and abs
day 4: legs which is also my weakest workout
i rest 2 days and then i repeat


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## zoey101fan (Aug 9, 2013)

the cycle looks fine.  As long as you have any decent amount of steroid in you, you're gonna make crazy gains.

Here's my one recommendation:  Don't add the tbol in a week 3.  The test starts kicking hard in week 3-4 and it really shocks your body having that huge influx of hormones.  This is about the time you may get huge side effects.  I'd wait until about week 6 or 7 (if you are handling the test well) to add in the oral.

Also, I don't think it would be a bad thing to hold the test at 1g per week for the whole cycle

edit: also have nolva on hand in case your nipples start to itch.  any reason why you're not including nolva in PCT?


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## d2r2ddd (Aug 9, 2013)

I agree with hellbilly. Try doing it natural before coming to the dark side.
Go read up everything on Dogg Crapp( DC) training.


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## fitness86 (Aug 9, 2013)

zoey101fan said:


> the cycle looks fine.  As long as you have any decent amount of steroid in you, you're gonna make crazy gains.
> 
> Here's my one recommendation:  Don't add the tbol in a week 3.  The test starts kicking hard in week 3-4 and it really shocks your body having that huge influx of hormones.  This is about the time you may get huge side effects.  I'd wait until about week 6 or 7 (if you are handling the test well) to add in the oral.
> 
> ...



thanks for the advice man i'll move the T-bol to week 6 trough the end of the cycle week 6-12, i'm gonna do 500mg of Test per week only doing 1000mg the first week  to get the blood levels up in a timely manner.. as for the nolva i didn't get it cuz i'll be doing 
anastrozol during the cycle and clomid only for PCT since i've read up that both do about the same thing. can i take a higher dose of clomid if 50mg is not enough?



> I agree with hellbilly. Try doing it natural before coming to the dark side.
> Go read up everything on Dogg Crapp( DC) training.



i know this would be the most optimal thing to do.. but natural gains come very slow for me, if i was to start this 5 year prior i would've gone that way, i really wanna have some fun while i'm still in my 20's.. i'm not looking into doing super cycles and getting super huge, all I want is to get up to 200-210lb and i can take it slow from then on..


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## Ironbuilt (Aug 9, 2013)

Hey let's try a good diet and grab a trainer like HB is saying bro. 
You will just gain a bunch a water weight due to crappy not enuf calories and supplements such as basic protein powder . Vitamins etc. I suggest a full panel blood test to see how thyroid , estro, testosterone levels are and then decide. Maybe u are low on natural hormone so u can qualify for trt and dr advice rather than broknowledge and whoever said Tbol needs to see what is about.sure as hell no bulk unless u eat 80 mg a day. If u have a trt clinic go in and have them check u out.. Genetics are also huge.. How are parents size wise?  Maybe ure more fit to be a marky mark underware model.. Lol. Kdn bro..


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## Ironbuilt (Aug 9, 2013)

Repost. Dam pad..


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## d2r2ddd (Aug 9, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> Repost. Dam pad..



Have u tried Tampons?


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## fitness86 (Aug 9, 2013)

i have this gear on hand, I'm looking for advice on how to maximize gains any help is appreciated!  



> Hey let's try a good diet and grab a trainer like HB is saying bro.
> You will just gain a bunch a water weight due to crappy not enuf calories and supplements such as basic protein powder . Vitamins etc.



is protein powder a bad choice for protein intake?


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## d2r2ddd (Aug 9, 2013)

Okok... since u have decided to go on a cycle no matter what.... go on a test only cycle  for 12 weeks as yr 1st cycle 

Have u read this?
www.anasci.org/vB/168923-post1.html


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## vpiedu (Aug 9, 2013)

you want a big upper body train the fuck out of your legs!!! big legs = big everything else. make legs your favorite day in the gym and train them 2x a week and be damn serious about it and you will grow. eat, sleep, train, and if you cycle keep it simple, low dose test for 12 weeks with a solid PCT and proper time off before you cycle again. time on cycle plus PCT = time off. good luck


VP


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## wrees (Aug 9, 2013)

vpiedu said:


> you want a big upper body train the fuck out of your legs!!! big legs = big everything else. make legs your favorite day in the gym and train them 2x a week and be damn serious about it and you will grow. eat, sleep, train, and if you cycle keep it simple, low dose test for 12 weeks with a solid PCT and proper time off before you cycle again. time on cycle plus PCT = time off. good luck
> 
> 
> VP



I see a lot of people suggest a test only cycle for the first cycle. Why is that? I understand the idea of using one compound to see how ur body works out but would it really be that bad to stack some deca and test for a first cycle? I ask because I am working on putting a first together with test and deca. Ive got years of training tho and am stronger than most the guys that "abuse" roids that i know.


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## vpiedu (Aug 9, 2013)

wrees said:


> I see a lot of people suggest a test only cycle for the first cycle. Why is that? I understand the idea of using one compound to see how ur body works out but would it really be that bad to stack some deca and test for a first cycle? I ask because I am working on putting a first together with test and deca. Ive got years of training tho and am stronger than most the guys that "abuse" roids that i know.



if you are not an athlete and i mean a competing athlete then there is no reason to get crazy on a cycle especially a first one. i have been around this game for a long time and am a competitive powerlifter and all i run these days is 100mg test/wk and 200mg mast/wk and before a competition i will add tren or an oral for 4 weeks and thats it. you will find what works best for you but do this by beginning with 400mg/wk test for 12 weeks with a proper PCT and that is a great first cycle. more is not always better. this is a marathon bro not a sprint. good luck!


 VP


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## Populus54 (Aug 9, 2013)

If you don't eat enough for hypertrophy all the gear in the world won't help. Blazing fat metabolism or not your diet needs to be in order or you are wasting your time and money. I'm not gonna bother getting into it more than that because you made up your mind but if you want the most out of it you need to start eating. It's just that simple.


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 10, 2013)

fitness86 said:


> i have this gear on hand, I'm looking for advice on how to maximize gains any help is appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> is protein powder a bad choice for protein intake?



Um ya....majority of your protein should be from whole foods...the powder is to supplement your diet


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## d2r2ddd (Aug 10, 2013)

http://www.anasci.org/vB/71560-post1.html


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## fitness86 (Aug 11, 2013)

d2r2ddd said:


> http://www.anasci.org/vB/71560-post1.html



i found this write up to be rather interesting, has any of u guys tried the training routine described there? Is there any good sources which i should read on what my diet should be like while on a cycle?
what is a "solid PCT" i have anastrozol 0.25mg and clomid 50mg on hand how should i construct my PCT for optimal results?


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## The Grim Repper (Aug 11, 2013)

fitness86 said:


> i have this gear on hand, I'm looking for advice on how to maximize gains any help is appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> is protein powder a bad choice for protein intake?



When it's the majority if not almost all of your protein intake, then it's not optimal by a long shot.  You need to try to maybe take two of those protein shakes in the way of food.  6 oz of chicken breast, lean beef even just a scoop of protein in fat free greek yogurt (tastes like chocolate mousse/dessert) - a personal favorite.  Whole food are superior in many ways besides satisfying you more than just drinking a shake - made with milk and a banana or not.
Grim


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## drob29 (Aug 13, 2013)

fitness86 said:


> Hi everyone, i have read a lot of the materials posted on this forum and found them very informative and helpful, i'm looking forward to doing my first cycle soon. Here is some background on me: i'm 27yo 6'1" and weigh 160lb been training  serious for about a year now by body fat is pretty low probably 10-12%, i've been struggling with gaining weight all my life, so i've finally decided on going trough with this cycle and set my self on the way of achieving my ultimate goal of about 200-210lb of good quality muscle. i'd like to keep my body fat low as it currently is if that's even possible. Any advice would be appreciated..
> here is a breakdown of what i'm looking into doing for my first cycle:
> week 1:       500mg            #Test E, twice a week, pre-loading
> week 2-12:  250mg           #Test E, twice a week
> ...



Dude, you are tall, skinny and weak. And your diet sucks. Your so intent on keeping the "gay swimmer body fat %" that there is no way your anywhere near ready to cycle. If you do cycle, you will make some gains, and then lose all your gains post cycle. Sounds like your going to cycle anyway, further confirming your foolishness. Good luck with your cycle, your going to need it.  

People like this make me laugh. They think they can look huge and keep looking huge by using steroids without actually eating and training properly over an extended period of time. *shakes head*.




zoey101fan said:


> the cycle looks fine.  *As long as you have any decent amount of steroid in you, you're gonna make crazy gains*.
> 
> Here's my one recommendation:  Don't add the tbol in a week 3.  The test starts kicking hard in week 3-4 and it really shocks your body having that huge influx of hormones.  This is about the time you may get huge side effects.  I'd wait until about week 6 or 7 (if you are handling the test well) to add in the oral.
> 
> ...



Zoey, *your a fuckin moron*. This is one of the worst posts I have read in a while. *IDIOT*.



Populus54 said:


> If you don't eat enough for hypertrophy all the gear in the world won't help. Blazing fat metabolism or not your diet needs to be in order or you are wasting your time and money. I'm not gonna bother getting into it more than that because you made up your mind but if you want the most out of it you need to start eating. It's just that simple.



BUMP this. EAT EAT EAT. nuff said.....


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## Phoe2006 (Aug 13, 2013)

drob29 said:


> Dude, you are tall, skinny and weak. And your diet sucks. Your so intent on keeping the "gay swimmer body fat %" that there is no way your anywhere near ready to cycle. If you do cycle, you will make some gains, and then lose all your gains post cycle. Sounds like your going to cycle anyway, further confirming your foolishness. Good luck with your cycle, your going to need it.
> 
> People like this make me laugh. They think they can look huge and keep looking huge by using steroids without actually eating and training properly over an extended period of time. *shakes head*.
> 
> ...



Straight and to the point. Like it or not

If you don't eat you're not going to grow a little bit of fat isn't going to kill u. U need to bulk up cuz at 6'1" ur really tall and super skinny I would start eating a shit ton everything in sight and then when you're full you need to eat some more to the point where you feel sick. You need to get your diet in order and ur workout before u even decide to start aas. 

ATTENTION ALL BEGINNERS STEROIDS ARE NOT ALWAYS THE ANSWER if u don't have everything else in order. 

Anyways it's quite apparent that you're not going to listen to any of us so good luck with everything and make sure you have ai and pct on hand or any gains u do make you're going to lose as soon as u come off. I've seen it way to many times.

P


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## fitness86 (Aug 15, 2013)

seams to me that most of u here don't have any intent on giving any useful advice as it comes to the problem at hand, just so you all know i'm willing to change my diet and exercise routine as long i know what is the right way to do it, i have already made changes to the way i eat based on some of the comments left here i've added alot more protein from raw foods such as eggs and chicken meat.
P.S just so u know if u wanna be helpful in the way u advise people, don't just give your vague criticism, if u see something wrong advise on how to do it right (give an example, an article u might thing its helpful, or just say what are the steps that need to be taken according to you) and there is no need to deviate from topic, this is why people post certain questions, because they need an answer not to be told how it can't be done (the easiest answer there is) but how to achieve the goal they have. Use the initial conditions give in the problem you're advising on, just use your brain to provide a solution not a critique anyone can do that! not everyone can solve a problem, if u fill u have noting to contribute just sit back and pay attention maybe someone else does and u might end up learning something u didn't know. Thanks to everyone who is trying to give the best they can it's greatly appreciated, i'm here to learn so i have the patience to wait for the right answers.


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## Bull_Nuts (Aug 15, 2013)

fitness86 said:


> seams to me that most of u here don't have any intent on giving any useful advice as it comes to the problem at hand, just so you all know i'm willing to change my diet and exercise routine as long i know what is the right way to do it, i have already made changes to the way i eat based on some of the comments left here i've added alot more protein from raw foods such as eggs and chicken meat.
> P.S just so u know if u wanna be helpful in the way u advise people, don't just give your vague criticism, if u see something wrong advise on how to do it right (give an example, an article u might thing its helpful, or just say what are the steps that need to be taken according to you) and there is no need to deviate from topic, this is why people post certain questions, because they need an answer not to be told how it can't be done (the easiest answer there is) but how to achieve the goal they have. Use the initial conditions give in the problem you're advising on, just use your brain to provide a solution not a critique anyone can do that! not everyone can solve a problem, if u fill u have noting to contribute just sit back and pay attention maybe someone else does and u might end up learning something u didn't know. Thanks to everyone who is trying to give the best they can it's greatly appreciated, i'm here to learn so i have the patience to wait for the right answers.



Bro....diet has to be on point for several years or you are selling yourself short....juice is the icing on the cake...

Thats all


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## Phoe2006 (Aug 15, 2013)

fitness86 said:


> seams to me that most of u here don't have any intent on giving any useful advice as it comes to the problem at hand, just so you all know i'm willing to change my diet and exercise routine as long i know what is the right way to do it, i have already made changes to the way i eat based on some of the comments left here i've added alot more protein from raw foods such as eggs and chicken meat.
> P.S just so u know if u wanna be helpful in the way u advise people, don't just give your vague criticism, if u see something wrong advise on how to do it right (give an example, an article u might thing its helpful, or just say what are the steps that need to be taken according to you) and there is no need to deviate from topic, this is why people post certain questions, because they need an answer not to be told how it can't be done (the easiest answer there is) but how to achieve the goal they have. Use the initial conditions give in the problem you're advising on, just use your brain to provide a solution not a critique anyone can do that! not everyone can solve a problem, if u fill u have noting to contribute just sit back and pay attention maybe someone else does and u might end up learning something u didn't know. Thanks to everyone who is trying to give the best they can it's greatly appreciated, i'm here to learn so i have the patience to wait for the right answers.



Dude OK post ur an example of your diet on a daily basis. And then post your workout routine day in and day out and you'll get a lot more help. But getting upset with us cuz we're telling you the truth ain't the way to get any responses. We're just trying to help u out and sometimes it may seem we're being hard on newbies but we're looking out for u where some jack ass just told u to to take a 1000 mgs a week for ur first cycle is fuckin retarded I would stay around 500 mgs and if you wanted to preload you may look into front loading with test propenate on top of the 500 mgs of test e just a thought.
P


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## Phoe2006 (Aug 16, 2013)

I did reread ur thread and saw u posted ur workout etc. Before you start any aas i would highly advise hiring a trainer and he'll get ur diet and workout program tweaked up. Save your money you were going to spend and use it to hire meadows or alex or someone and in another year come back when everything is jiving and that's when it would be optimal for u to get on gear. Just my 2¢
P


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## fitness86 (Aug 16, 2013)

Alright here is my *diet* _still in the works but this is what i'm converging on_:

*>First meal:* 40g whey + 1 cup of milk + banana: my appetite is very low in the morning that's why my preference is on a good protein shake 
*>Second meal:* 2 whole eggs + 10 egg whites + 100g cheese
*>Third meal:* starchy pre workout meal

_*#workout#*_

*>Fourth meal:* immediately after workout is complete follows a protein shake, the same one as meal #1 delivering roughly 50g of protein
*>Fifth meal:* 1lb of chicken leg meat grilled with a side of veg like broccoli/rice/potatoes/ will change to keep things interesting
*>Sixth meal:* repeat of meal #2 or a lighter version of #2 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Training:*

*>day 1:* Chest/Bi +abs  
*>day 2:* Rest
*>day 3:* Back/tri +abs
*>day 4:* Rest
*>day 5:* Shoulder/Legs
*>day 6:* Rest
*>day 7:* Rest 

_//focusing on heavy lifting 4-5 sets / 4-8 reps range (6 excersizes for the bigger muscle group / 3 for the minor)_


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## vikingquest (Aug 16, 2013)

Add a cup of ground oats to your shake in the an with some macadamia nut oil.  

Add dextrose to your post workout shake with flax oil 

Eat more veggies and avocados. Take metamucil twice a day. And of course a good multi.


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## Phoe2006 (Aug 16, 2013)

Flax seed oil is a must
Vitamin c,d,e(or a good multivitamin)
Fish oil 
Bcaa

This is another reason I say you're better off hiring someone if u can afford. Spend the money u were going to spend on aas and pay a trainer and then after everything is sinking come back next year and start. Most trainers will completely take over diet and supplements as well.
P


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## wrees (Aug 16, 2013)

drob29 said:


> Dude, you are tall, skinny and weak. And your diet sucks. Your so intent on keeping the "gay swimmer body fat %" that there is no way your anywhere near ready to cycle. If you do cycle, you will make some gains, and then lose all your gains post cycle. Sounds like your going to cycle anyway, further confirming your foolishness. Good luck with your cycle, your going to need it.
> 
> People like this make me laugh. They think they can look huge and keep looking huge by using steroids without actually eating and training properly over an extended period of time. *shakes head*.
> 
> ...




Everyone elses advice seemed great...other than this A-hole. Especially the...((Dude, you are tall, skinny and weak. And your diet sucks. Your so intent on keeping the "gay swimmer body fat %")) REALLY? thats some real helpful input and way to treat a fellow member. This guy looks fat, bald, and intent on keeping the gay Jersey shore body fat %.....and he wouldnt be shit without all the AA's he is telling you not to use. Anyhow....if your really eating that good and lifting that way then your doing better than 90% of the idiots that use AA's.


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## d2r2ddd (Aug 17, 2013)

Add coconut oil/milk into your whey protein for the xtra calories and good fats


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## turbobusa (Aug 17, 2013)

Ok guys we don't do that here. Neg breeds neg. The guys are right though. First investigate gaining the muscle through diet and training. If you have been 
training one year you might have scratched the surface but doubt it.
You are one of my favorite types to train if you have the actual ability to dig in and do it.One of my favs was a guy i trained that had been stuck at 170lbs for 5 yrs. Trained him up to 215 in about 14 months give or take. He took the plunge at about 225 lb wt and ended in the 280 ish range a few lears later. 
Guy wanted it and listened when i said to wait. It is ultimately up to you.
i'm gonna bet that guys like drob, bullnuts and phoe are like myself. 
i put down a good natty base 5'6"  220-25 but know now I coulda went a bit farther clean. By the way in early years the "on gains" SEEMED THE MOST FUN. 
Now my first years that were natty were the one's i remember feeling best about.The guys may have seemed to you being dickish above but are trying to get your attn and say hey don't cheat yourself.  Best of luck no short cuts.. 
T


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## drob29 (Aug 18, 2013)

wrees said:


> Everyone elses advice seemed great...other than this A-hole. Especially the...((Dude, you are tall, skinny and weak. And your diet sucks. Your so intent on keeping the "gay swimmer body fat %")) REALLY? thats some real helpful input and way to treat a fellow member. This guy looks fat, bald, and intent on keeping the gay Jersey shore body fat %.....and he wouldnt be shit without all the AA's he is telling you not to use. Anyhow....if your really eating that good and lifting that way then your doing better than 90% of the idiots that use AA's.



I guess I could have been a little nicer 

And for the record, I didnt pin anything until I was 42 years old and was 210 lbs at 5 ft 7, following 10 plus years of training hard and eating properly.

Wrees, post up your pic and some stats



Phoe2006 said:


> ............This is another reason I say you're better off hiring someone if u can afford. *Spend the money u were going to spend on aas and pay a trainer *and then after everything is sinking come back next year and start. Most trainers will completely take over diet and supplements as well.
> P



Agreed.


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## fitness86 (Sep 2, 2013)

alright guys so i have started this cycle at 40mg Tbol ED for the first week and i'll up the dose the following week to 50mg ED. on week 2 i'll start test E @ 500mg/week  and continue the Tbol for another 4 weeks into the test cycle. 

i'm 2 days into this and i've noticed a significant drop in energy and increase in anxiety and inability to concentrate! is this normal? I was full of energy and highly motivated just prior to starting the Tbol so i can feel a big negative contrast..


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