# CJC and GHRP2



## big n wv (Jun 21, 2013)

I've never ran this, but I've been sitting on some for a while. I've pretty much decided 100mcg 3x a day is the best way to run it, but is timing an issue? For example, if I did it upon waking, preworkout and before bed would that be fine or should you pin x amount of hours between?


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## BigBob (Jun 21, 2013)

big n wv said:


> I've never ran this, but I've been sitting on some for a while. I've pretty much decided 100mcg 3x a day is the best way to run it, but is timing an issue? For example, if I did it upon waking, preworkout and before bed would that be fine or should you pin x amount of hours between?



Yes that sounds good. Just try to avoid any food for 20 minutes after the shot. I used to use it post workout too. And I believe and I am going from memory that the peak is for 2 hours than it drops off again. But the effects last much longer. 
I cut and pasted this from Dat's board.

  A Brief Summary of Dosing and Administration
A Brief Summary of Dosing and Administration

Dosing GHRPs

The saturation dose in most studies on the GHRPs (GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Ipamorelin & Hexarelin) is defined as either 100mcg or 1mcg/kg.

What that means is that 100mcg will saturate the receptors fully, but if you add another 100mcg to that dose only 50% of that portion will be effective. If you add an additional 100mcg to that dose only about 25% will be effective. Perhaps a final 100mcg might add a little something to GH release but that is it. 

So 100mcg is the saturation dose and you could add more up to 300 to 400mcg and get a little more effect.

A 500mcg dose will not be more effective then a 400mcg, perhaps not even more effective then 300mcg.

The additional problems are desensitization & cortisol/prolactin side-effects.

Ipamorelin is about as efficacious as GHRP-6 in causing GH release but even at higher dose (above 100mcg) it does not create prolactin or cortisol.

GHRP-6 at the saturation dose 100mcg does not really increase prolactin & cortisol but may do so slightly at higher doses. This rise is still within the normal range.

GHRP-2 is more efficacious then GHRP-6 at causing GH release but at the saturation dose or higher may produce a slight to moderate increase in prolactin & cortisol. This rise is still within the normal range although doses of 200 - 400mcg might make it the high end of the normal range.

Hexarelin in some is the most efficacious otherwise it is equipotent or a little less so then GHRP-2 at causing an increase in GH release. However it has the highest potential to also increase cortisol & prolactin. This rise will occur even at the 100mcg saturation dose. This rise will reach the higher levels of what is defined as normal.

Desensitization

GHRP-6 can be used at saturation dose (100mcg) three or four times a day without risk of desensitization. 

GHRP-2 at saturation dose several times a day will not result in desensitization.

Hexarelin has been shown to bring about desensitization but in a long-term study the pituitary recovered its sensitivity so that there was not long-term loss of sensitivity at saturation dose. However dosing Hexarelin even at 100mcg three times a day will likely lead to some down regulation within 14 days.
If desensitization were to ever occur for any of these GHRPs simply stopping use for several days will remedy this effect.

Chronic use of GHRP-2 at 100mcg dosed several times a day every day will not cause pituitary problems, nor significant prolactin or cortisol problems, nor desensitize.

GHRH 

Now Sermorelin, GHRH (1-44) and GRF(1-29) all are basically GHRH and have a short half-life in plasma because of quick cleavage between the 2nd & 3rd amino acid. This is no worry naturally because this hormone is secreted from the hypothalamus and travels a short distance to the underlying anterior pituitary and is not really subject to enzymatic cleavage. The release from the hypothalamus and binding to somatotrophs (pituitary cells) happens quickly.

However when injected into the body it must circulate before finding its way to the pituitary and so within 3 minutes it is already being degraded.

That is why GHRH in the above forms must be dosed high to get an effect.

GHRH analogs 

All GHRH analogs swap Alanine at the 2nd position for D-Alanine which makes the peptide resistant to quick cleavage at that position. This means analogs will be more effective when injected at smaller dosing.

The analog tetra or 4 substituted GRF(1-29) sometimes called CJC w/o the DAC or referred to by me as modified GRF(1-29) has other amino acid modifications. They are a glutamine (Gln or Q) at the 8-position, alanine (Ala or A) at the 15-position, and a leucine (Leu or L) at the 27-position.

The alanine at the 8th position enhances bioavailability but the other two amino substitutions are made to enhance the manufacturing process (i.e. create manufacturing stability).

For use in vivo, in humans, the GHRH analog known as CJC w/o the DAC or tetra (4) substituted GRF(1-29) or modified GRF(1-29) is a very effective peptide with a half-life probably 30+ minutes.

That is long enough to be completely effective.

The saturation dose is also defined as 100mcg.

Problem w/ Using any GHRH alone 

The problem with using a GHRH even the stronger analogs is that they are only highly effective when somatostatin is low (the GH inhibiting hormone). So if you unluckily administer in a trough (or when a GH pulse is not naturally occurring) you will add very little GH release. If however you luckily administer during a rising wave or GH pulse (somatostatin will not be active at this point) you will add to GH release.

Solution is GHRP + GHRH analog 

The solution is simple and highly effective. You administer a GHRH analog with a GHRP. The GHRP creates a pulse of GH. It does this through several mechanisms. One mechanism is the reduction of somatostatin release from the hypothalamus, another is a reduction of somatostatin influence at the pituitary, still another is increased release of GHRH from the brain and finally GHRPs act on the same pituitary cells (somatotrophs) as do GHRHs but use a different mechanism to increase cAMP formation which will further cause GH release from somatotroph stores.

GHRH also has a way of reciprocally reinforcing GHRPs action.

The result is a synergistic GH release.

The GH is not additive it is synergistic. By that I mean:

If GHRH by itself will cause a GH release valued at 2
and GHRP itself will cause a GH release valued at 5

Together the GH is not 7 (5+2) it turns out to say 16!

A solid protocol 

A solid protocol would be to use a GHRP + a GHRH analog pre-bed (to support the nightime pulse) and once or twice throughout the day.

For anti-aging, deep restful restorative sleep, the once at night dosing is all you need. For an adult aged 40+ it is enough to restore GH to youthful levels.

However for bodybuilding or fatloss or injury repair multiple dosings can be effective.

The GHRH analog can be used at 100mcg and as high as you want without problems.

The GHRP-2 can always be used at 100mcg w/o problems but a dose of 200mcg will probably be fine as well.

Again desensitization is something to keep an eye on particularly with the highest doses of GHRP-2 and all doses of Hexarelin.

So 100 - 200mcg of GHRP-2 + 100 - 500mcg+ of a GHRH analog taken together will be effective.

This may be dosed several times a day to be highly effective.

A solid approach is a bit more conservative at 100mcg of GHRP-2 + 100mcg of a GHRH analog dosed either once, twice, three or four times a day.

When dosing multiple times a day at least 3 hours should separate the administrations. 

The difference is once a day dosing pre-bed will give a youthful restorative amount of GH while multiple dosing and or higher levels will give higher GH & IGF-1 levels when coupled with diet & exercise will lead to muscle gain & fatloss.

Dose w/o food 

Administration should ideally be done on either an empty stomach or with only protein in the stomach. Fats & carbs blunt GH release. So administer the peptides and wait about 20 minutes (no more then 30 but no less then 15 minutes) to eat. AT that point the GH pulse has about hit the peak and you can eat what you want.
Last edited by DatBtrue; 30th October 2009 at 12:01 PM.


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## Ironbuilt (Jun 27, 2013)

Yeah that ^^^^ 
Thanks Big B.. He rarely listens to me..


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## Magnus82 (Jun 27, 2013)

Alpha6164, the resident doc at PM proved food does nor affect the release.  Its in this thread somewhere.  It probably the most current and comprehensive read on the subject.

Exciting! GRF1-29/GHRP-2 serum GH test! - Professional Muscle


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## wesmantooth (Jun 28, 2013)

I've asked a couple contest prep guys and neither are fans of peptides at all.  They all say stick with low dose GH instead.  You guys think they are worth the money?


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## Magnus82 (Jun 28, 2013)

I did ghrp2 and cjc1295 for years and it worked quite well.  Liked ipam a little better but have to run it at 500mcg as opposed to100mcg of ghrp2.  6 months ago I switched 300mcg DAC per day with an occasional ghrp2 pulse and can say this is more effective.  I would have a hard time going above 12%bf.  Soon I will go back to ghrp2/cjc1295 just to be on
 the safe side.


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## big n wv (Jun 28, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> Yeah that ^^^^
> Thanks Big B.. He rarely listens to me..




You haven't said anything about peps, stop acting like you give me good advice :naughty1:


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## The Grim Repper (Jun 28, 2013)

I like 100 mcg of each 4 x a day.  Lost fat and really helped keep me healthy and gaining nicely while cruising.


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## BigBob (Jun 28, 2013)

Magnus82 said:


> Alpha6164, the resident doc at PM proved food does nor affect the release.  Its in this thread somewhere.  It probably the most current and comprehensive read on the subject.
> 
> Exciting! GRF1-29/GHRP-2 serum GH test! - Professional Muscle



Thanks. I was going by what I got from Dat.  Its amazing how long 20 minutes is when your hungry.


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## big n wv (Jul 26, 2013)

Big73966 said:
			
		

> Thanks. I was going by what I got from Dat.  Its amazing how long 20 minutes is when your hungry.



Being in week 3 of this I can completely relate to this.  Those 20 minutes are excruciating


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## Daniel11 (Aug 9, 2013)

Im looking at jumping into this also in fall. 

Thinking CJC no Dac/GHRP2 3x day @ 100/200 and CJC no DAC/Ipram @100/400 pre-bed.

I work out first thing in the morning. 

Should I dose pre-workout? or wait and hit it post-workout? 
or both?  (my workouts are long, so it can easily be spread out 3 hrs)


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## Daniel11 (Aug 13, 2013)

Shameless bump


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## Adam_david (Apr 10, 2014)

Is 200 mcg of cjc & ghrp-2 really that much more effective than 100mcg?


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## Elvia1023 (Apr 10, 2014)

Adam_david said:


> Is 200 mcg of cjc & ghrp-2 really that much more effective than 100mcg?



It's definitely more effective but not by a great deal. I get really sleepy when I dose GHRP higher.

Guys need to try CJC-1295 with DAC and a GHRP  I just dose the cjc twice weekly and use the GHRP when I can (2-4 times daily).


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## johnjuanb1 (Apr 10, 2014)

Adam_david said:


> Is 200 mcg of cjc & ghrp-2 really that much more effective than 100mcg?



Any higher than 100mcg cjc no dac is a waste of money. With ghrp2, higher doses do exhibit greater amounts of hgh.


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## Elvia1023 (Apr 11, 2014)

johnjuanb1 said:


> Any higher than 100mcg cjc no dac is a waste of money. With ghrp2, higher doses do exhibit greater amounts of hgh.



Exactly. Regarding GHRP-2 200mcg feels like a lot more than 100mcg. But once you start going higher laws of diminishing returns really come into play. I think anything up to 400mcg is worth trying. Anything over 400mcg and you are just wasting your money. With the cjc even 75mcg is great so I wouldn't bother upping that.


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## Adam_david (Apr 11, 2014)

Sometimes I don't feel anything when using them other times I do. Although I can always tell they are effecting my sleep. Is it not working if I don't feel anything? Or do uneven feel it? Not sure if I conjured up that "feeling" or not.


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## Elvia1023 (Apr 12, 2014)

Adam_david said:


> Sometimes I don't feel anything when using them other times I do. Although I can always tell they are effecting my sleep. Is it not working if I don't feel anything? Or do uneven feel it? Not sure if I conjured up that "feeling" or not.



I think you are overthinking things. I would just be consistent with them and give them a good go and if you are not pleased after a while you know not to try again (or try another brand).


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