# Test Vs Tren



## bigboy312 (Oct 1, 2013)

God Created all beasts with Testosterone in their blood.  the only difference is total free testosterone (Muscle Builder) in the beast's body is 100 times the Human Body.  Mg for Mg if you can turn Test to Free test in human body then Tren has no place.  

Unfortunately when we use test we only use 50-60 % of it.  10 % will turn into DHT and the rest estrogen.  I believe test suspension is way stronger than Tren.  I am saying this from personal experience the problem arises when it aromatizes so heavily.  

Test Suspension hands down is the best strength and size builder.  No ester and fast acting.   Use Mast and Proviron to turn you test into free Test and stopping it from binding to SHBG.  That's when you build pure muscle and strength.  

Six muscle building of the 21s Century HGH, IGF (not the research garbage), Test, Tren, Masteron and T3. 

In conclusion I am not saying Tren is better than test or test is better than tren.  I believe in Test all my life and continue using test for the rest.  I have seen lots of folks with kidney failures, enlarge hearts and other problems using tren over a short period of time.  

If the gear makes you feel like shit then why use it.  I use test and mast or Primo and I feel like a beast in the gym.


----------



## kubes (Oct 1, 2013)

You just have to keep in mind people respond different to different compounds even with test we don't all aromatize at the same rate. Body fat and nutrition play a role as well. P.s I really like the masteron along side my test but I like Tren too. It's important to find the sweet spot with the compounds you are using


----------



## tripletotal (Oct 1, 2013)

I love test but seem to be at an impasse with my gains from it. Run mast and proviron, too, and an AI when needed.

Gains have slowed. I added a little tren and I'm back on track.

Do you think this could be done with more test instead?


----------



## kubes (Oct 1, 2013)

tripletotal said:


> I love test but seem to be at an impasse with my gains from it. Run mast and proviron, too, and an AI when needed.
> 
> Gains have slowed. I added a little tren and I'm back on track.
> 
> Do you think this could be done with more test instead?



How much Tren and how much test are you running? How much test were you running when your gains slowed?


----------



## Enigmatic707 (Oct 1, 2013)

God created test-
God created man-
Man created Tren-
Tren created the bad ass mofucker... Thus Tren wins!


----------



## asp28 (Oct 1, 2013)

bigboy312 said:


> God Created all beasts with Testosterone in their blood.  the only difference is total free testosterone (Muscle Builder) in the beast's body is 100 times the Human Body.  Mg for Mg if you can turn Test to Free test in human body then Tren has no place.
> 
> Unfortunately when we use test we only use 50-60 % of it.  10 % will turn into DHT and the rest estrogen.  I believe test suspension is way stronger than Tren.  I am saying this from personal experience the problem arises when it aromatizes so heavily.
> 
> ...



As soon as you started steroids you got your enlarged heart. All roids will do it. I feel fine on tren. Woo hoo me!


----------



## tripletotal (Oct 1, 2013)

jim230027 said:


> How much Tren and how much test are you running? How much test were you running when your gains slowed?



Was running about 1250/week test (prop and e) plus 400 mast 

Now running 800 test (mix of prop and e) plus 200 mast and 240 tren


----------



## kubes (Oct 1, 2013)

tripletotal said:


> Was running about 1250/week test (prop and e) plus 400 mast
> 
> Now running 800 test (mix of prop and e) plus 200 mast and 240 tren



That's a good dose of test bro I don't think you want to go higher than that. 750 ew is my sweet spot with 4-600 tren


----------



## tripletotal (Oct 1, 2013)

jim230027 said:


> That's a good dose of test bro I don't think you want to go higher than that. 750 ew is my sweet spot with 4-600 tren



That sounds fun, for sure.


----------



## bigboy312 (Oct 2, 2013)

Agree the less Amortization more gains and positive benefits of the test.  
Tren will destroy your system.  Look what happened to Flex Wheeler, Kevin Levrone, Paul Dillet and Tom Prince, I just Spoke to long friend of mine Tom not too long ago he is only 170 LBS

TOM PRINCE UPDATE Alive & Well! MadMax6 gets the insde scoop!!

keep on taking that high dose of TrenBOOLIN


----------



## kubes (Oct 2, 2013)

bigboy312 said:


> Agree the less Amortization more gains and positive benefits of the test.
> Tren will destroy your system.  Look what happened to Flex Wheeler, Kevin Levrone, Paul Dillet and Tom Prince, I just Spoke to long friend of mine Tom not too long ago he is only 170 LBS
> 
> TOM PRINCE UPDATE Alive & Well! MadMax6 gets the insde scoop!!
> ...



I do not think anyone is saying that it wouldn't?  I think we all know that tren is one of the strongest compounds out there and that's why you shouldn't run it more than 6-8 weeks


----------



## butthole69 (Oct 2, 2013)

only about 3% of circulating testosterone changes into estrogen. masteron is as 'unnatural' as tren. most of the injected testosterone is metabolized by the liver and then excreted.


----------



## bigboy312 (Oct 2, 2013)

this statement is Dose dependent and everyone is different.   Some of us prone to gyno more than others.  

Masterone barely has any side effects at the dose given.  Is not 19Nor and it works.  Is anti Cancer and it was made for Human.  Tren was made for Cows 
to make them big in a short period of time and chopped their heads.


----------



## Enigmatic707 (Oct 2, 2013)

bigboy312 said:


> this statement is Dose dependent and everyone is different.   Some of us prone to gyno more than others.
> 
> Masterone barely has any side effects at the dose given.  Is not 19Nor and it works.  Is anti Cancer and it was made for Human.  Tren was made for Cows
> to make them big in a short period of time and chopped their heads.



No- Tren was not made for cows the same way EQ was not made for horses. It's simply that when a drug has no human medical application a pharma company will look to other markets to find a pool of customers. 

You keep saying a lot of things that are simply inaccurate and very biased and if you haven't caught on a lot of the members here don't agree with you as well. Your very black and white statements you're making almost come off as disrespectful and arrogant. The sad thing is that your position is clearly flawed so to see you take  such a strong stance when your information is incorrect comes off quite sophmorish.


----------



## butthole69 (Oct 2, 2013)

No the body can only change a very small percentage of testosterone into estrogen. That's not to say people don't get estrogen sides. Estrogen is much more potent mg per mg than testosterone. You said the body changes 100% of testosterone into estrogen or DHT

You have a point but medical steroids were tested at low doses. Bodybuilders take 10-100x more than the medical dose. There's nothing natural about 7000mg of testosterone per week. High concentrations of testosterone can activate the progesterone receptor.

Also tren is 19-nor but it cannot convert to estrogen and has been shown to have low binding to PGR


----------



## 360spyder (Oct 12, 2013)

Enigmatic707 said:


> No- Tren was not made for cows the same way EQ was not made for horses. It's simply that when a drug has no human medical application a pharma company will look to other markets to find a pool of customers.
> 
> You keep saying a lot of things that are simply inaccurate and very biased and if you haven't caught on a lot of the members here don't agree with you as well. Your very black and white statements you're making almost come off as disrespectful and arrogant. The sad thing is that your position is clearly flawed so to see you take  such a strong stance when your information is incorrect comes off quite sophmorish.



I try to stay off the boards as much as possible, but I have made anasci my "home" when I do want to catch up or just see what's new. I had to post this because someone with some knowledge actually posted an intelligent post that he didn't just guess on or read somewhere some 18 year old steroid expert wrote. Thank you Enigmatic for setting shit straight.


----------



## chrisr116 (Oct 12, 2013)

Yep, definitely no black and white in this.  I have used every one of the types of gear you guys are talking about and like them all.  Using gear responsibly, no matter which one, is key.


----------



## Ironbuilt (Oct 12, 2013)

Like Chris says older means wiser.. Use your head. Alcohol can cause estrogen because you're a pussy when passed out. Right? Lol


----------



## chrisr116 (Oct 12, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> Like Chris says older means wiser.. Use your head. Alcohol can cause estrogen because you're a pussy when passed out. Right? Lol



Man, I do love my whiskey and diet coke in the evening...haha..


----------



## nothuman (Oct 19, 2013)

I keep hearing people using high test getting all sorts of health problems. It's not just tren.


----------



## Barcelona11 (Oct 19, 2013)

My opinion test is a better strength builder and way less side affects. I get tren cough a lot now after using for so long and my temper becomes very short. However the pump and vascularity I get from tren is a great feeling. But now days I have tapered away from the tren and just stuck to higher douses of test to build strength and size.


----------



## Enigmatic707 (Oct 19, 2013)

moneyshot said:


> i keep hearing people using high test getting all sorts of health problems. It's not just tren.



x2


----------



## zaosha (Oct 31, 2013)

bigboy312 said:


> Masterone barely has any side effects at the dose given.



Actually, I know several guys who avoid mast because it accelerates BPH worse than tren, test or anything else they use.



bigboy312 said:


> Is not 19Nor and it works.  Is anti Cancer and it was made for Human.  Tren was made for Cows...



Good to know that Negma produced and sold an ester of Tren for decades for human use, but tren isn't "made for humans."


----------



## zaosha (Oct 31, 2013)

bigboy312 said:


> Agree the less Amortization more gains and positive benefits of the test.
> Tren will destroy your system.  Look what happened to Flex Wheeler, Kevin Levrone, Paul Dillet and Tom Prince, I just Spoke to long friend of mine Tom not too long ago he is only 170 LBS
> 
> TOM PRINCE UPDATE Alive & Well! MadMax6 gets the insde scoop!!
> ...



Are you aware that Tom Prince has discussed and posted about his cycles online quite a bit and the man himself claims he relied heavily on test and deca and didn't even use tren after 1998...

Of course, he may not be telling the truth, but unless you watched him take his shots then I'll go ahead and take his word over yours.

Of the others you mentioned only Flex has had documented kidney issues.  And these guys were all 1990's competitors who relied heavily on diuretics.  

There is little evidence of any direct nephrotoxicity of trenbolone.  There is a metric fuckton of evidence that carrying a lot of extra mass + GH + AAS will result in high BP for most people. High BP, if not controlled, can cause irreversible kidney damage over time.  Add in rec drugs, diuretic abuse, and the high doses of NSAIDS many of these guys took to deal with joint pain and you have a recipe for kidney damage.  

I would really like to see your evidence for this "tren will destroy your system" BS.


----------



## chrisr116 (Nov 4, 2013)

bigboy312 said:


> this statement is Dose dependent and everyone is different.   Some of us prone to gyno more than others.
> 
> Masterone barely has any side effects at the dose given.  Is not 19Nor and it works.  Is anti Cancer and it was made for Human.  Tren was made for Cows
> to make them big in a short period of time and chopped their heads.



I must disagree with you statement that masteron has barely any sides.  I incorporate it into my cycles, and love it, but I can tell you it has a definite effect on my prostate.  It causes my prostate to swell.  This has only happened to me when I run masteron or primo in a cycle.  But, I guess sides can vary from person to person.


----------



## kubes (Nov 4, 2013)

chrisr116 said:


> I must disagree with you statement that masteron has barely any sides.  I incorporate it into my cycles, and love it, but I can tell you it has a definite effect on my prostate.  It causes my prostate to swell.  This has only happened to me when I run masteron or primo in a cycle.  But, I guess sides can vary from person to person.



How much mast were you running? Anything under 600ew for me has almost no sides


----------



## chrisr116 (Nov 4, 2013)

jim230027 said:


> How much mast were you running? Anything under 600ew for me has almost no sides



300mg mast propionate a week.  I guess it may be partially due to my age...

Back in '08 I ran a sust and primo cycle and was using about 600mg primo a week and got it bad then.


----------



## Ironbuilt (Nov 4, 2013)

I ran mast e @ 800week and had prostrate swole also and im an impatient pisser. Cialis helped it 15 mg day..


----------



## kubes (Nov 4, 2013)

Gotcha I have never gone higher than 600 ew on mast and based of your experiences I won't. Lol...... 500-600 seems to be the sweet spot for me anyway. Always have to remember most of the time more is not better it's all about finding the sweet spot


----------



## turbobusa (Nov 4, 2013)

chrisr116 said:


> I must disagree with you statement that masteron has barely any sides.  I incorporate it into my cycles, and love it, but I can tell you it has a definite effect on my prostate.  It causes my prostate to swell.  This has only happened to me when I run masteron or primo in a cycle.  But, I guess sides can vary from person to person.



I am in the same boat with ya on the masteron sides. 
Love the stuff but pissing gets sketchy.\
That is why I use proviron instead if I feel pissing issues 
symtoms I can skip a day or two or half the dose. 
Thx, T...


----------



## turbobusa (Nov 4, 2013)

MoneyShot said:


> I keep hearing people using high test getting all sorts of health problems. It's not just tren.



I feel like most are bp related other than orals stressing the liver.
The high rbc and crit need to be kept in check and monitored. 
Hey brother good to see you over here.  Hang out more . Mellow cool spot.  Thx, T..............


----------



## chrisr116 (Nov 4, 2013)

turbobusa said:


> I am in the same boat with ya on the masteron sides.
> Love the stuff but pissing gets sketchy.\
> That is why I use proviron instead if I feel pissing issues
> symtoms I can skip a day or two or half the dose.
> Thx, T...



I just secured the last 20ml of masteron for my next cycle (December).  My prostate is already pissed with me.  

The good is I love that grainy look I get towards the end of my cycle when I'm on it.  

The bad is I don't like standing in front of the toilet for 5 minutes at a time in the middle of the night, trying to piss...


----------



## amateurmale (Nov 4, 2013)

bigboy312 said:


> God Created all beasts with Testosterone in their blood.  the only difference is total free testosterone (Muscle Builder) in the beast's body is 100 times the Human Body.  Mg for Mg if you can turn Test to Free test in human body then Tren has no place.
> 
> Unfortunately when we use test we only use 50-60 % of it.  10 % will turn into DHT and the rest estrogen.  I believe test suspension is way stronger than Tren.  I am saying this from personal experience the problem arises when it aromatizes so heavily.
> 
> ...



Excellent post but you forgot to mention that Test, Mast and Primo are also the safest compounds to use and are easiest on lipids.


----------



## amateurmale (Nov 5, 2013)

zaosha said:


> Are you aware that Tom Prince has discussed and posted about his cycles online quite a bit and the man himself claims he relied heavily on test and deca and didn't even use tren after 1998...
> 
> Of course, he may not be telling the truth, but unless you watched him take his shots then I'll go ahead and take his word over yours.
> 
> ...



I didn't see anybody mention the fact that bloodwork will save you from 99% of kidney/liver problems.    Get your bloods done guys. Its cheap.


----------



## mr. wayne (Nov 5, 2013)

Why does it need to be either or (I understand the question is there so it can be discussed my question is a joke). Having said that I love them both especially at the same time. I'm currently doing just that and having great, as in the best I have had, gains in size and strength with no sides (besides some back acne and fast beard growth). I guess I'm one of the lucky few that don't*get the bad sides from tren. However I'm keeping the doses low: test e 300, test prop 250(100 eod), tren e 250. I can run the tren a few weeks longer that way. I have never run it without test, but I build everything I run around test. Final answer: Love Them Together.


----------



## Ironbuilt (Nov 5, 2013)

True Wayne..  Best used together .. Some guys just can't handle any tren , that being me.. So I just surpass the gram test barrier with a-50 and get er' done ..


----------



## chrisr116 (Nov 5, 2013)

Ironbuilt said:


> True Wayne..  Best used together .. Some guys just can't handle any tren , that being me.. So I just surpass the gram test barrier with a-50 and get er' done ..



I'm like that IB.  It does make me a little stupid in the head- start chasing after strange women, etc.  Mostly, it is the wife that can't handle the sides with me.  She has put it on the "do not use" list and threatened me with divorce if I do.


----------



## sodzl (Nov 6, 2013)

To the guys using Mast, how long does it take for prostate issues to return to normal?


----------



## mr. wayne (Nov 6, 2013)

Well Im not completely blessed normaly go with tren ace and thought it normaly doesn't bother me so try tren e. I think I got about 2 hours of sleep this morning after laying there sweating my balls off. It could be worse and it probaly won't last but that is why I run it low. I am lucky enough to be abke to do that and get great benefit though. Partly because I got really sick not long ago from a misdiagnosis.  The prescribed medication nearly killed me by shutting down my pituitary gland which controls many vital mechanisms but the two that got me were the stopping of my metabolism and the stopping of test production. Lucky for me another doctor (a friend of over twenty year) asked to run some blood work when he  saw me and my cholesterol was 400 and triglycerides were 2400 and free test was 92 as I'm sure most of you those are scary numbers well then I had to take other meds to get back to normal and it took me out of the gym for a long while and I lost a ton of weight. I basically started back like one year in I am about the exact sive and build as I was at 15 but Its coming back fast. That isn't relevant to the thread just an experience I wanted to share so that some of the comments I make are coming from another angle. Anyway. Thanks. Time to lay down and sweat lol.


----------



## chrisr116 (Nov 6, 2013)

sodzl said:


> To the guys using Mast, how long does it take for prostate issues to return to normal?



A few weeks for me.  I also take Saw Palmetto when I start feeling it.


----------



## turbobusa (Nov 6, 2013)

Couple weeks give or take . I use long mast generally so that is part of it.
Proviron is easier to use and keep that prostate issue in check. 
Masteron seems to benefit body more . Proviron has a stronger effect on libido 
than mast for me. Big time overkill in the libido dept.
Thx T


----------



## The Grim Repper (Nov 6, 2013)

I'll use both sparingly moving forward as I will all compounds.
My new mantra is 'milk it dry' when it comes to dosages.  Think about it...

If you're 100% clean (not even stims like clen or thyroid drugs) and gaining off of rest, food and intelligent training, then introducing even a couple hundred mg of test a week is pretty drastic to your system's hormonal environment.  Couple that with continuing to rest, train and eat well, beating the log book (hellbilly's mantra!) and watching the mirror - I think most would be very surprised at the changes they see.
There's life before, during and after bodybuilding, competitors or hobbyists, etc.  Hell, Evan Centopani is going to work with Chris Aceto because Aceto's reliance upon high dose compounds (accompanied by increased risks of negative sides) is much less than other coaches' protocols in Evan's mind - his best choice to 'milk it'.  Evan is quite vocal about longevity and staying healthy long term.  I think that is a strategy that's a good one to consider.
Grim


----------



## mr. wayne (Nov 12, 2013)

Ok I would like to revise my statements on this thread. I most definitley am not one of those blessed to not get Tren sides. I just spent the last ten days sweating my ass off, not sleeping, feeling in general just shitty. Having said that I increased my test and it just all faded. Im feeling great(during this time frame I have also been stressing over getting an apprenticeship at the local shipyard and some how through the worst of it I passed all the requirements. Two days before I am to begin my month long Training course at the local juco, which I have to be up at 4 am to get there on time, I felt fine. I turned into me at 18 in the gym. To top it off I am sleeping 6-8 hours. Before I was lucky to fall asleep at 4 and now it is when I get up. I have also put on 25 lbs. after an initial loss of ten. I do not know if I just made it out the other side or if increasing the test helped. All I know is Im not testing the theory now because if we are a minute late the drop you. If you do not pass one test(passing is 80 and above) they drop you and if you simply do not have what they consider to be the right attitude they drop you.


----------



## ShortStop (Nov 12, 2013)

I'll drop my test down when running tren low dose each.. I never ran into any problems. I've always been satisfied with the results


----------



## Ironbuilt (Nov 12, 2013)

Mr Wayne tren can definately cause some anxiety in some people.So keep calm brutha focus on your new mission and best a luck.. let us know if u make it  .ib


----------



## mr. wayne (Nov 12, 2013)

Thank you hypothetical current run is test enan 300 aw, tren enan 250 ew these two were broken into two pins (half of each twice a week for more consistent levels), and test prop 100 eod, but that was changed to ed and all sides except being more horny than a three peckered billy goat disappeared. I'm eating extraoedinarily clean and non stop. Not teach mention each workout sees strength increases and muscles feel fuller and thicker and staying cut. As I mentioned before after an intial loss of ten lbs I have gained 30. So it is running fantastic right now. Off to apprentice school. Have a good day.


----------



## mr. wayne (Nov 12, 2013)

Btw this is my first run of tren enan before always ran ace before. I'm guessing maybe that could have been the case. I also still have a slight cough when I breathe deeply. Hypothetically of course.


----------



## The Grim Repper (Nov 12, 2013)

Glad things are working out mr. wayne.  For some, tren tends to make them drop weight if enough test isn't there.  Many argue tren's sides are amplified with increased test, others find the opposite to be true and cannot use the low test high(er) tren formula.  I am one of those people.  This is an individual thing and I'm happy to hear you're finding out what works for _you_.  Good luck.


----------



## Enigmatic707 (Nov 12, 2013)

mr. wayne said:


> Btw this is my first run of tren enan before always ran ace before. I'm guessing maybe that could have been the case. I also still have a slight cough when I breathe deeply. Hypothetically of course.



Hypothetically if there were a person using steroids who was hypothetically posting on a hypothetical forum about trenbolone use- I would hypothetically suggest a light dose of an AP (antiprolactin)

When I hypothetically run Bromo at 12.5 ed my Tren side completely disappear.... Hypothetically speaking that is.

LoL


----------



## mr. wayne (Nov 12, 2013)

thank you hypothetically


----------



## Dontblink (Nov 13, 2013)

For me I like to go low test high tren. I'm the one who gets tren sides (mostly anger/irritability) when test is above 250 a week with high tren. I switch it up though 16 weeks or so high tren low test then I cruise a few weeks at 150-250 test then go to 750test and 500-750 EQ depending on how I feel.....

Have not tried mast only cause I heard it makes you hair fall out like its snowing hair? Any thoughts on that statement and does proviron do the same? (still have a nice head o hair don't want to loose that)


----------

