# Dangers of Steroids



## tee

Dangers of Steroids 

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This is copy and pasted from Massmuscleinc.com, it is a post by masswithclass, I just think you all should read, remember their are a lot of factors that go into something like this, but it seems kidney disease has been creeping up on some bodybuilders as of late. 

Alot of you people know me, but for those who don't i'm a 2 time state middleweight Pa State champion in the NPC. I also took it to the next level 2 times competing at Nationals for the allmighty PRO card. I recently was diagnosed with Renal Kidney Failure, that means basically my kidney are shutting down. I need dialysis 3 times a week for 4 hours a session to stay alive. Kidney problems do not run in my family, nobody in my family has ever had a kidney related issue.
You have to realize there are consiquenses to your actions with AAS, do not think that you are invinsible. 
I was recently prepping for the state championships, i figured this is my year for the overall state title Mr Pennsyvania and it was balls to the wall. About 6 weeks out i started throwing up every day sometimes 2 times a day, my ankles were holding water and my skin was turning very pale and i was so fatigued but i pushed on anyway thinking i was being a pussy. Finally it got so bad i could harly breathe and was truely afraid that something very serious was wrong. I went to the doctor for bloodwork, he sent it out stat the next thing i know he called me and wanted me in the hospital NOW. I went to intensive care where they gave me 4 units of blood and blood pressure meds, turns out my kidney's where shutting of and have been doing so for some time now. I went from prepping for a state title to having a doctor sitting in front of me telling me "you need a transplant". If i would have had bloodwork and payed attention to it i would more than likey not been in this grim position. Nobody talks about the bad side of steroids on these boards, so i just wanted you to know what you are getting into. I don't mean to lecture, i was asked to write this piece to make people realize there is a bad side about steroids that most people are in denial about.
Thank you for listening and hopefully i can help some of you from being in the same position as me some day.


I am a non drinker, non smoker, i have had a very strict diet since 1996 always lean. I have to say that i have also taken the ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin stack since 1991 nonstop, and nsaids for joint and muscle pain. Once again this is not in my genes and i am only 37. We all know anadrol, d-bol, winny, halo, and tren are harsh substances, but the quest for size blinds us to the negative aspects of these drugs. I'm not saying don't do them, that is a personal choice but at least be careful.

I never juiced like some of these people on the boards. Shit was hard to come by where i live so cycles were very basic with average doses. I never did 1 gram of test a week, d-bol would be 50mg a day tops, and anadrol would be 150 mg a day for a maximum of a week during a cycle. The thing is that i never really came off since 1996. Figured i'd never turn pro if i took time off.
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## Freejay

Dosen't surprise me in the least, especially where orals are concerned.  I have seen some of the bro's cycles on this and other boards, and quite frankly, they're scarry!  taking 2G of Test, D-Bol, and all kinds of other gear, plus ancillaries one should expect that the renal system is getting quite a little work out of it's own.  Afterall, your kidneys filter your blood, balance acid levels, and produce hormones that regulate red blood cell production.


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## imdaman1

Sounds like this guy was seriously abusing the drugs!  Too much of anything will kill you - eventually.


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## DragonRider

Sorry, I just don't buy it. Where is the list of bodybuilders coming up with renal failure? What's his name? What are his specific cycles?


Arnold Schwarzennegger, Boyer Coe, Larry Scott, Dave Draper, Sergio Olivia, Frank Zane, Lou Ferrigno, Bill Pearl, Ali Mallah, Ken Waller, Chris Dickerson, Lee Haney, Casey Viator, Albert Beckles, Mike Christian, Tony Pearson, Dennis Tinerino, Roy Callender, Jusup Wilkosz, Johnny Fuller, Samir Bannout, Hubert Metz, Ed Corney, Robby Robinson

There are too many guys who used in the the 60's, 70' and 80's who are in better health than everyone else their age and some of these guys are using still.


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## imdaman1

DragonRider said:
			
		

> Sorry, I just don't buy it. Where is the list of bodybuilders coming up with renal failure? What's his name? What are his specific cycles?
> 
> 
> Arnold Schwarzennegger, Boyer Coe, Larry Scott, Dave Draper, Sergio Olivia, Frank Zane, Lou Ferrigno, Bill Pearl, Ali Mallah, Ken Waller, Chris Dickerson, Lee Haney, Casey Viator, Albert Beckles, Mike Christian, Tony Pearson, Dennis Tinerino, Roy Callender, Jusup Wilkosz, Johnny Fuller, Samir Bannout, Hubert Metz, Ed Corney, Robby Robinson
> 
> There are too many guys who used in the the 60's, 70' and 80's who are in better health than everyone else their age and some of these guys are using still.



Don't forget about all the pro wrestlers who are now old / retired:  Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Junkyard Dog, etc etc etc


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## Freejay

All I ment is the variables are all there for an overworked renal system.  High doses of any chemical can cause stress to the kidneys.  As to any direct correlation between gear and renal failure, I agree there is a substantial lack of any concrete evedence.  I would add however that the old school body builders had access to real pharmaceutical grade gear that was probably inherently safer due to the lab controls in place.  But all in all, as you stated, most (if not almost all) who use gear come out just fine, and those who don't, probably owe that to improper use.


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## Diesel

yeah i can agree, i looked at another board that i was passin by on, there were people using 32 week- 12 month cycles and wondering why there PCT was cause so much emotional stress, these not youjust yonuger kids are the reasons steroids have sucha  bad name


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## tee

This was posted along with the article by another board member. Anybody know 1/2 of these guys? 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This isn't just by chance guys.

Sonny Schmidt died at 46
> Scott Klein died at 30
> Ron Teufel died at 45
> Dan Duchaine died at 48
> Mohammed Benaziza died at 28
> Andreas Munzer died at 30
> Mike Mentzer died at 49
> Ray Mentzer died at 47
> Don Ross died at 55
> Dr. John Tristany died
> Don Peters died
> Ray Raridon died
> Arnold Schwarzenegger (heart problems)
> Don Long (kidney failure)
> Tom Prince (kidney failure)
> Flex Wheeler (kidney transplant)
> Ed Corney (stroke)
> Boyer Coe (heart)
> Danny Padilla (heart)
> Pete Grymkowski (heart)
> Lyle Alzado died at 42
> Curt Hennig died at 44
> Davey Boy Smith died at 39
> Louie "Spicolli" Mucciolo died at 27
> Ravishing Rick Rude died at 40
> Brian Pillman died at 35
> 62 Finnish power-lifters suspected of using steroids died at a rate five times higher than average.

I think moderation is the key, and there are no guarrantees even at that.


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## Diesel

also my dad prefers " Performance Enhancers"


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## tee

DragonRider said:
			
		

> Sorry, I just don't buy it. Where is the list of bodybuilders coming up with renal failure? What's his name? What are his specific cycles?
> 
> 
> Arnold Schwarzennegger, Boyer Coe, Larry Scott, Dave Draper, Sergio Olivia, Frank Zane, Lou Ferrigno, Bill Pearl, Ali Mallah, Ken Waller, Chris Dickerson, Lee Haney, Casey Viator, Albert Beckles, Mike Christian, Tony Pearson, Dennis Tinerino, Roy Callender, Jusup Wilkosz, Johnny Fuller, Samir Bannout, Hubert Metz, Ed Corney, Robby Robinson
> 
> There are too many guys who used in the the 60's, 70' and 80's who are in better health than everyone else their age and some of these guys are using still.



I agree DR. I posted it because it provokes a lot of thought responses. Anytime someone has any health problems and they are taking steroids, they always blame the juice. I would like to know what the % of bodybuilders that are obviously on juice and having health problems are compared to sedentary people? I would venture a guess that there is not more BBers in ill health or dying than average people. On the flip side though, I do believe that many of these pro bodybuilders of today are abusing steroids as well as many other substances to win. When they start having major health problems, it will just add fuel to the fire of the idiots that say steroids are evil.


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## duranm

They can just give them the side effects and the law and some tests.


They could help the latest generations by creating mandatory steroid tests. maybe that will reduce it.


Maybe they could make the test cheaper through better technology?

but theres always a loop hole.

 i think its the sports, jobs, looks, and competition that drives most people to take them.


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## DragonRider

tee said:
			
		

> This was posted along with the article by another board member. Anybody know 1/2 of these guys?
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> This isn't just by chance guys.
> 
> Sonny Schmidt died at 46
> > Scott Klein died at 30
> > Ron Teufel died at 45
> > Dan Duchaine died at 48
> > Mohammed Benaziza died at 28
> > Andreas Munzer died at 30
> > Mike Mentzer died at 49
> > Ray Mentzer died at 47
> > Don Ross died at 55
> > Dr. John Tristany died
> > Don Peters died
> > Ray Raridon died
> > Arnold Schwarzenegger (heart problems)
> > Don Long (kidney failure)
> > Tom Prince (kidney failure)
> > Flex Wheeler (kidney transplant)
> > Ed Corney (stroke)
> > Boyer Coe (heart)
> > Danny Padilla (heart)
> > Pete Grymkowski (heart)
> > Lyle Alzado died at 42
> > Curt Hennig died at 44
> > Davey Boy Smith died at 39
> > Louie "Spicolli" Mucciolo died at 27
> > Ravishing Rick Rude died at 40
> > Brian Pillman died at 35
> > 62 Finnish power-lifters suspected of using steroids died at a rate five times higher than average.
> 
> I think moderation is the key, and there are no guarrantees even at that.


Yes, I know all of them by reputation. 
They complied a list of pepole who have died, but they don'y say what they died of. We know that each one used steroids, but that doesn't mean they died or even suffered health problems because of their use. 
Is anyone familiar with an actress named Valerie Harper? She was born the day before the attack on Pearl Harbor. She used to tell a joke that since she was born the day before the attack she thought for years she was responsible for the attack. The point she makes in her joke is that just because one event follows another, does not mean the first event caused the second.
Let's look at Schwarzenegger. Has anyoner read his book? Do you know what his Dad died from? heart attack. Arnold had a heart valve repaired that caused his father to die. Do the words "run in the family" sound familiar here?

Alzado, depending on which story you want to listen to, died of AIDS or Growth Hormone. Growth Hormone is not selective in which cells it causes to grow. If you already have cancer cells and you take growth hormone, guess what.

Munzer, has anyone seen the list of pharmaceauticals that Munzer was on when he died. No one could possibly attribute his death to steroids. Lasix on top of diuretics, maybe.

The Mentzers both had diabeties. Near the end of their lives they were infamous for not taking basic care of their health. Everyone who knew and loved them had abandoned them because they had basically gone off of the deep end.

Dan Duchaine reinvented DNP. He was the guru who made home brewing possible. He had developed anemia from testing his own concoctions on himself.

Has anyone seen Ferigno lately? Is there any doubt in your mind that he is still using?

The original author of this first thread states a number of things. First he has used non stop since 1996 in addition he has used ECA stacks and NSAIDS. Do we know what the long term combination of steroids and ECA stacks do? Do we know what the combination or even singular long time use of NSAIDS can do? How do we know (if this guy is even on the level) that his problems aren't a result of long time ECA or NSAIDS use?
I can tell you this. Steroid use by itself is considered relatively safe. Did you know that steroid use and cocaine use at the same time causes heart problems? Do we blame the steroids or the coke?


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## wolfyEVH

DragonRider said:
			
		

> Yes, I know all of them by reputation.
> They complied a list of pepole who have died, but they don'y say what they died of. We know that each one used steroids, but that doesn't mean they died or even suffered health problems because of their use.
> Is anyone familiar with an actress named Valerie Harper? She was born the day before the attack on Pearl Harbor. She used to tell a joke that since she was born the day before the attack she thought for years she was responsible for the attack. The point she makes in her joke is that just because one event follows another, does not mean the first event caused the second.
> Let's look at Schwarzenegger. Has anyoner read his book? Do you know what his Dad died from? heart attack. Arnold had a heart valve repaired that caused his father to die. Do the words "run in the family" sound familiar here?
> 
> Alzado, depending on which story you want to listen to, died of AIDS or Growth Hormone. Growth Hormone is not selective in which cells it causes to grow. If you already have cancer cells and you take growth hormone, guess what.
> 
> Munzer, has anyone seen the list of pharmaceauticals that Munzer was on when he died. No one could possibly attribute his death to steroids. Lasix on top of diuretics, maybe.
> 
> The Mentzers both had diabeties. Near the end of their lives they were infamous for not taking basic care of their health. Everyone who knew and loved them had abandoned them because they had basically gone off of the deep end.
> 
> Dan Duchaine reinvented DNP. He was the guru who made home brewing possible. He had developed anemia from testing his own concoctions on himself.
> 
> Has anyone seen Ferigno lately? Is there any doubt in your mind that he is still using?
> 
> The original author of this first thread states a number of things. First he has used non stop since 1996 in addition he has used ECA stacks and NSAIDS. Do we know what the long term combination of steroids and ECA stacks do? Do we know what the combination or even singular long time use of NSAIDS can do? How do we know (if this guy is even on the level) that his problems aren't a result of long time ECA or NSAIDS use?
> I can tell you this. Steroid use by itself is considered relatively safe. Did you know that steroid use and cocaine use at the same time causes heart problems? Do we blame the steroids or the coke?




not to mention alzado loved the coke......


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## DragonRider

tee said:
			
		

> I agree DR. I posted it because it provokes a lot of thought responses. Anytime someone has any health problems and they are taking steroids, they always blame the juice. I would like to know what the % of bodybuilders that are obviously on juice and having health problems are compared to sedentary people? I would venture a guess that there is not more BBers in ill health or dying than average people. On the flip side though, I do believe that many of these pro bodybuilders of today are abusing steroids as well as many other substances to win. When they start having major health problems, it will just add fuel to the fire of the idiots that say steroids are evil.


Agreed, I love a good well thought out argument even if it disagrees with my thoughts. I hate it when people just jump on the bandwagon.


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## Freejay

Agreed!  Great Thread.  Very thought provoking.


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## l3i0hazard

All steroids are not created equal...I'd be really curious how many of the more dangerous compounds he was using...I think that most would probably agree that you could decrease the risk of AAS by avoiding some of the more toxic ones...


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## KILLA

Look at the real danger


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## sixftandrising

*Some strange logic being used here*



DragonRider said:


> Yes, I know all of them by reputation.
> They complied a list of pepole who have died, but they don'y say what they died of. We know that each one used steroids, but that doesn't mean they died or even suffered health problems because of their use...
> ... just because one event follows another, does not mean the first event caused the second...
> ...Steroid use by itself is considered relatively safe. Did you know that steroid use and cocaine use at the same time causes heart problems? Do we blame the steroids or the coke?



If you hear hoof-beats you think "horses," not "zebras."  Of course, there is no definitive evidence that steroids were the cause of these body-builders' deaths, but come on, you're honestly saying that steroids pose little to no risk to your health?  You said it yourself that using HGH can increase the rate of cancer cell growth.  Is that not considered a health risk?  Many steroid enthusiasts argue that there are no concrete studies showing that using steroids pose long-term health issues.  The reason for this lack of studies stems from the fact that steroids are illegal in most countries that perform significant medical studies.  (They're illegal in the US, Canada, and the entire European Union, which includes: Sweden, Finland, Ireland, the UK, Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Germany, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Czech. Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria)  All of these countries have determined that giving large amounts of steroids to any one person, even for experimental purposes, is both immoral and dangerous.  You can argue about the lack of significant long-term studies all you want, but it is not a point supporting the safety of steroid use.

Refering to your cocaine reference, I think both the steroids and the cocaine are to blame for that specific person's death.  But just because someone has destroyed their body with something "worse" than steroids,  doesn't mean the steroids didn't cause any harm.  If I were to implant a cancerous tumor into someone's body and then shoot them in the chest five times, what would be the cause of death?  The bullets, of course.  But just because I introduced an outside influence doesn't mean that the tumor didn't have the potential to kill them down the road.

I agree steroids weren't the only reason for these bodybuilders' premature deaths, but regardless of how you spin it, steroids ARE bad for you.  Many websites, even the sites that sell steroids, are cautious about the potential side effects.  (Listed below)
-http://anaboliceurope.com/sideeffect.htm (steroid vendor)
-http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/steroids.htm
-http://www.steroidstoday.com/steroids/a-look-at-the-long-term-effects-of-steroids-use/
-just google "long-term steroid side effects" for more

I realize that this post won't change your opinion on the matter, but it helps me sleep at night knowing that I tried to knock some sense into your heads.  Happy juicing...


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## HELLGA

To each there own and no one is wrong.  What is right for you or me may not be right for someone else.  Without exact proof, its as with everything, you can only assume because of this, that will happen.  You gotta love BIgger Faster Stronger. 

 Cancer, liver disease, heart attacks, come from everything.  And unfortunately I have yet to find any true long term studies of what Juice really and truely does to you other than the given results of size and strength.  Yes, may increase your chances of this or that.  But then so does living in areas with smog or taking the wrong dose of multi vitamins.

Because of not knowing the exact science of disease.  What will cause this or that if you take this amount for this long, everyone (websites) has to protect themselves legally.  Check out any medication you take.  Everything can kill you.

To each their own and respect to those of like and different opinions.


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## mr.nitrofish

...


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## MR.X

I think its a mixture of many things. One I believe alot of it is simply propagadanbrought on by peple using the deaths of a few athletes to blame steroids for everything, second I believe its overuse of the drugs by many of the guys that causes the issues. Its human nature for us to think that by introducing more of something or at a better pace it will give better results rather than training harder and eating better. And third I think its pure ignorance by everyone on steroids period.. By both sides really. First of all no matter what anyone says there has been very very little true studies done on aas use by real medically qaulified people to make certain accusations by anybody. Its still all here say and will be until true studies sre done and enuff of them to compare that good info can be produced. Nice to see a discussuion though..........


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## DragonRider

sixftandrising said:


> If you hear hoof-beats you think "horses," not "zebras."  Of course, there is no definitive evidence that steroids were the cause of these body-builders' deaths, but come on, you're honestly saying that steroids pose little to no risk to your health?
> 
> You said it yourself that using HGH can increase the rate of cancer cell growth.  Is that not considered a health risk?
> 
> but regardless of how you spin it, steroids ARE bad for you.



1. Yes

2. HGH and anabolic/androgenic steroids are two totally different hormones. What does one have to do with the other?

3. They are naturally occuring substances in your body. No matter how anyone spins it, all males are on steroids. Why aren't we all dead already?


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