# BCAA's toss them in the trash



## Concreteguy (Jun 6, 2018)

I belong to Jordon Peters paid monthly forum. He has posted a video were he clearly states based on  new science BCAA's offer ZERO to the anabolic state of a human body. He literally said to just take your loss and throw the jug in the trash can. He went on to say that EAA's are a different animal that should be consumed during and post training."With some positive effects". He then went on to add that PeptoPro was the Mac'daddy and should always be used during and post.


That whole thing was quit an eye opener for me. I have heard previously that EAA's were better than BCAA"s but I'm just so conditioned over the years with the BCAA's always being on the shelf at every Protein shop it's hard to imagine tossing it in the trash...….


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## Durro (Jun 7, 2018)

You don’t have to throw it. I also believe Essentials are better. I can’t remember where I seen or read on it some years back.


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## lilgumby (Jun 7, 2018)

John Meadows did a video on the same Theory between bcaa and eaa. I follow John and a member His paid form also. I think he's one of the smartest guys in the industry. So I ended up switching to EAA a while back


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## FastBunny (Jun 7, 2018)

Thank you for sharing this knowledge that you pay for and are nice enough to share! Thank you!


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## Concreteguy (Jun 7, 2018)

lilgumby said:


> John Meadows did a video on the same Theory between bcaa and eaa. I follow John and remember His paid form also. I think he's one of the smartest guys in the industry. So I ended up switching to EAA a while back



[ame]https://youtu.be/bX52PHIkJNQ[/ame]


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## MyNameIsJeff (Jun 8, 2018)

BCAAS are less effective in isolation than EAAs. But to suggest that they are completely useless and should be thrown in the trash is nonsense.



> "The present study demonstrated that ingesting of all three BCAAs alone, without concurrent ingestion of other essential amino acids, protein, or macronutrients, stimulated a 22% greater response of muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis following resistance exercise compared with a placebo," the researchers wrote. "The magnitude of this increased response of muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis was approximately 50% less than the previously reported muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis response to a dose of whey protein containing similar amounts of BCAAs."
> 
> "Taken together, these results demonstrate that BCAAs exhibit the capacity to stimulate muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis, however a full complement of essential amino acids could be necessary to stimulate a maximal response of muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis following resistance exercise."


http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaas-post-workout-muscle-gain-but-need-help.html

So there is in fact a positive effect of BCAAs on muscle protein synthesis, especially if you consume other protein sources close in time. For example, most bodybuilders have a post-workout meal which will provide the EAAs as 'fuel' for the increases protein synthesis previously induced by something like intra-workout BCAAS.

Furthermore, BCAAs have a place in limiting muscle breakdown during (especially fasted) exercise. 



> Physical exertion causes muscle to convert amino acids into energy. To do this the muscle cells use BCAAs, branched-chain amino acids, where possible. For the enzymes involved in energy provision, the branched side chain is like a handle: it gives them a better grip.
> 
> Because of this, taking BCAAs before and during a training session reduces muscle breakdown. The muscle cells convert the additional BCAAs into energy, thus saving the BCAAs in the muscle proteins. Another ergogenic effect of BCAA supplementation is that it reduces fatigue. The mechanism here is a little more complicated.
> 
> ...


http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasmaketraininglesstiring.html

Consequently, you would expect reduced soreness and better recovery from intra-workout BCAAs, exactly what John Meadows mentions in the video above. 



> Results
> A significant time effect was seen for all variables. There were significant group effects showing a reduction in CK efflux and muscle soreness in the BCAA group compared to the placebo (P<0.05). Furthermore, the recovery of MVC was greater in the BCAA group (P<0.05). The VJ, TC and CC were not different between groups.
> 
> Conclusion
> The present study has shown that BCAA administered before and following damaging resistance exercise reduces indices of muscle damage and accelerates recovery in resistance-trained males. It seems likely that BCAA provided greater bioavailablity of substrate to improve protein synthesis and thereby the extent of secondary muscle damage associated with strenuous resistance exercise.


https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-9-20

Upshot: there is a (limited) anabolic effect of BCAAs in real-world training scenarios, in addition to a significant anti-catabolic effect. Yes, as the new studies show, EAAs are superior in terms of a sustained anabolic effect. But that does not mean that BCAAs are useless. I'm surprised that Meadows is not aware of the anti-catabolic effect of BCAAs, leading him to think that the BCAAs in his intra-workout drink were not responsible for perceived reductions in muscle soreness and recovery time. Same thing for Peters. They only read a couple of studies, come to wrong conclusions and based on that make extreme recommendations like to throw away BCAAs:banghead:


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## Elvia1023 (Jun 9, 2018)

MyNameIsJeff said:


> BCAAS are less effective in isolation than EAAs. But to suggest that they are completely useless and should be thrown in the trash is nonsense.
> 
> 
> http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaas-post-workout-muscle-gain-but-need-help.html
> ...



:yeahthat:

I am always impressed with you knowledge. You research everything in depth and I like that.


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## Elvia1023 (Jun 9, 2018)

I have posted about this a few times on promuscle in the past. EAA's are superior to BCAA's by a long way. I have been using them for years. Milos Sarcev has been saying this for years. I like Olimp EAA's and use them a lot. 

However if you are consuming regular meals throughout the day that contain a full spectrum of aminos adding BCAA's to that meal or in between those meals will still be beneficial. I disagree they should be thrown in the trash. I never even noticed this thread and just posted 5%'s aminos taste great so I sometimes add them to peptopro to improve the taste. 5% aminos are just BCAA's so that goes well with this post. I also don't try to overcomplicate things as the main reason I use them is literally the taste


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## squatster (Jun 9, 2018)

https://core4nutrition.com/blog/bcaa-vs-eaa-which-one-better-take
There is so much info on both on the Ethernet


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## AGGRO (Jun 9, 2018)

EAA's are better but I would not throw away BCAA's. They still can have a purpose. I use BCAA's during training sometimes and have noticed better recovery.


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## armada (Jun 10, 2018)

I think if your workouts are short enough and you eat shortly before and shortly after the gym, intraworkouts are not that important.

That being said, if I will be at the gym for a while and my pre-workout meal is far enough away from the workout, I'll simply use a scoop of protein powder. Sure your body has to work harder to break down protein vs. free form amino acids, but it's also more cost effective and does the trick for me.


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## Viking (Jun 10, 2018)

I have been using BSN's Amino x and it has helped but nothing that stands out. Well one thing that stands out is it is cola flavor and the taste is amazing. It tastes like cola and I am getting some aminos so thats good enough for me.


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## steelsouth (Jun 13, 2018)

I honestly don't get as sore when I use EAA's combined with HBCD pre and intra...mostly pre. I trained chest pretty hard on Monday and dont have much doms at all.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Marshall (Jun 13, 2018)

I think the "throw them in the trash" was just for dramatic effect. Not an actual directive


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## GreenEarth (Jun 14, 2018)

Only a monster would suggest I throw these delicious green-apple-flavored BCAAs in the trash 

But I think the literature is relatively firm at this point...for the benefits of muscular growth, EAAs win by a long shot.


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## Elvia1023 (Jun 14, 2018)

GreenEarth said:


> Only a monster would suggest I throw these delicious green-apple-flavored BCAAs in the trash
> 
> But I think the literature is relatively firm at this point...for the benefits of muscular growth, EAAs win by a long shot.



100%

But as mentioned above what if you add those bcaa's to a meal that contains all essential aminos acids. Or even between meals that contain all essential amino acids. That's why I also agree with your reluctance to throw them in the trash. 

As you stated EAA's win by a long shot and if guys want to use aminos they should buy them if possible. I buy EAA's all the time but have some BCAA's mainly because they are much more popular so you get some amazing flavours which you don't get for EAA's. Plus it's not like it's going to make that much difference in the grand scheme.

Now a good example of the above is I just had delicious fizzy green apples BCAA's in a tub of greek yoghurt. So that meal contains all the essential aminos acids plus a high dose of bcaa's.


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## b-boy (Jun 14, 2018)

leave it to meatheads to overthing fucking everything.. If you are consuming quality protein sources every few hours what the fuck are you worried about? BCAAs are just fine to use intra workout. FUCK ME!!!


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## RamboStallone (Jun 14, 2018)

The more complete the protein is, the better it works, period. Protein foods including whey are much more beneficial then aminos. BCAAs is only 3 aminos, yea pretty much useless. The marketing BS labeled these 3 aminos as being most important, well Yea if the other aminos are present. I would say if you take your BCAAs with a complete protein (whey) then they will be effective. So I always had a protein shake with whey and/or egg whites preworkout and sipped on the BCAAs intra.  EAAs are more effective but complete proteins are still best.


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## RamboStallone (Jun 14, 2018)

Forgot to mention but personally, I see carbs being more beneficial intra for recovery. Of course if you're having enough protein during the day, the carbs have the aminos to shuttle to the muscle.


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## hemipower (Jun 14, 2018)

Agree with the consensus here... whole proteins pre and post... 

intra I currently do bcaas/cyclic dextrin only because I got a CASE or so of a quality BCAA from a store closing shop...have a few tubs left then will be seeking a carb/EAA/bcaa blend for intra or make my own. SO many of them have tiny doses of supps and mark the product way up for ineffective ingredients included for label claims. 

Simple...carb, EAA and BCAA would not be super costly but would be best bang for the buck results wise.


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## crunchy (Jun 14, 2018)

I guess I better mention humapro real quick. Since it hasn't been done


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## Elvia1023 (Jun 14, 2018)

b-boy said:


> leave it to meatheads to overthing fucking everything.. If you are consuming quality protein sources every few hours what the fuck are you worried about? BCAAs are just fine to use intra workout. FUCK ME!!!



x10



RamboStallone said:


> Forgot to mention but personally, I see carbs being more beneficial intra for recovery. Of course if you're having enough protein during the day, the carbs have the aminos to shuttle to the muscle.



Definitely. But if I can get in 30g+ of quality aminos when training that only helps. I have also got used to having a nice tasting drink when training and it's nice to rotate flavours. I agree about the carbs though and that's why I have hbcd's even if I am dieting.

Incidentally I just received Nutrabio's Intra Blast because I saw passion fruit flavour and it's rare and one of my favs. Tasted them today and it's amazing. Good quality ingredients and eaa's with glutamine so can't really go wrong. I buy them more for their taste though. Although this summer protein is getting upped very high so they will become useful.


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## RamboStallone (Jun 14, 2018)

Elvia1023 said:


> x10
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what I'm using brother intra blast, I didn't like passion fruit. I'm using the green apple flavor which tastes great mixed with the lemon lime Gatorade powder. 1 scoop of intra blast has like 20gs of total aminos. Since I have whey and egg whites before and a large food meal after, I feel like that is all I need intra.


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## rippedfreak123 (Jun 14, 2018)

RamboStallone said:


> That's what I'm using brother intra blast, I didn't like passion fruit. I'm using the green apple flavor which tastes great mixed with the lemon lime Gatorade powder. 1 scoop of intra blast has like 20gs of total aminos. Since I have whey and egg whites before and a large food meal after, I feel like that is all I need intra.



currently the same one i'm using and taste great.


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## Sully (Jun 15, 2018)

There might be a little more to the story. 

https://www.bodybuilding.com/conten...utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bodybldg.326797


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## bigbreads80 (Jun 15, 2018)

Elvia1023 said:


> x10
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just got the same thing and I like it.  Tastes badass. 

I use Dymatize iso100 protien.  It's got all of them.  Bcaas, eaas, non essentials...so it's got all of them.  Problem solved :headbang:


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## Lon Chaney (Jun 15, 2018)

no wonder i've stayed so small all these years. i only took leucine and gatorade during workout. could of been a contender.


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## Concreteguy (Jun 16, 2018)

I gotta go with JM and JP on this one.


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## Elvia1023 (Jun 21, 2018)

bigbreads80 said:


> Just got the same thing and I like it.  Tastes badass.
> 
> I use Dymatize iso100 protien.  It's got all of them.  Bcaas, eaas, non essentials...so it's got all of them.  Problem solved :headbang:



It's quite hot here so I have been putting a bottle of water in the freezer for about 90 mins then I add 1 scoop and have a passion fruit protein slush. I will have to try the other flavours out. I just received some dymatize iso100 as well. I have chocolate and peanut flavour and I will mix that in with cooked oats.


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## Victory (Jun 21, 2018)

Elvia1023 said:


> It's quite hot here so I have been putting a bottle of water in the freezer for about 90 mins then I add 1 scoop and have a passion fruit protein slush. I will have to try the other flavours out. I just received some dymatize iso100 as well. I have chocolate and peanut flavour and I will mix that in with cooked oats.



Sounds nice. I have done protein ice lollies with whey and milk in the past.


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## Marvin Martian (Jun 25, 2018)

b-boy said:


> leave it to meatheads to overthing fucking everything.. If you are consuming quality protein sources every few hours what the fuck are you worried about? BCAAs are just fine to use intra workout. FUCK ME!!!




B-boy you are dead on. Now-a-days - since information is so readily available, with a very minute amount of time and actual knowledge and the ability to copy at will, everyone is a freaking guru. 
I am all for genuine research - but as you said cats WAY over complicate things... This ain’t “rocket surgery” and there have been MASSIVE dudes long before the “alphabet soup of supplement initials” 

Look in the mirror - adjust the variables accordingly


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## Marvin Martian (Jun 25, 2018)

Concreteguy said:


> I gotta go with JM and JP on this one.



CG - don’t get me wrong. John has definitely truly done his research and definitely done much more with his genetic structure than 99% 
Hard to argue when he doesn’t just paste an article - but also posts his pics illustrating results. 
I just think overall - there is a rash of wannabe experts that would get much better results if they’d simply eat / train / rest and relax - and use the time proven things


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## lycan Venom (Jun 25, 2018)

Guess it's time i try some eaa's then. I rather ingest bcaas than protien shakes but i'm up to trying something new.


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## Concreteguy (Jun 25, 2018)

Marvin Martian said:


> CG - don’t get me wrong. John has definitely truly done his research and definitely done much more with his genetic structure than 99%
> Hard to argue when he doesn’t just paste an article - but also posts his pics illustrating results.
> I just think overall - there is a rash of wannabe experts that would get much better results if they’d simply* eat / train / rest and relax - and use the time proven things*



JM and JP are the poster children for this statement. I think you guys get stuck in the mud and just convince yourselves of things because that's what everyone has been doing. These two guys are the single most experienced forces in coaching. No one is coming here and paying the guys posting for info lol. Times change and so does science. The things JM said are based on science. There are a few in this thread that literally know nothing and just dig up studies and copy and past away...……….wasting everyone's time that reads it. When Sully posted up his study no one responded as if it was falling on def ears. I respect what you choose to believe. I choose to believe the experts in the industry. That's all.


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## SURGE (Jun 28, 2018)

Last night I ordered some green apple and passion fruit eaa's by nutrabio


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## HUMANALIFE (Jun 28, 2018)

Concreteguy said:


> I belong to Jordon Peters paid monthly forum. He has posted a video were he clearly states based on  new science BCAA's offer ZERO to the anabolic state of a human body. He literally said to just take your loss and throw the jug in the trash can. He went on to say that EAA's are a different animal that should be consumed during and post training."With some positive effects". He then went on to add that PeptoPro was the Mac'daddy and should always be used during and post.
> 
> 
> That whole thing was quit an eye opener for me. I have heard previously that EAA's were better than BCAA"s but I'm just so conditioned over the years with the BCAA's always being on the shelf at every Protein shop it's hard to imagine tossing it in the trash...….



I'm a member on his site as well and follow a lot of his philosophies.  The guy is brilliant.


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## striffe (Jul 12, 2018)

They both have there uses but EAA's are better. They are all essential amino acids which include the 3 bcaa's so it's a no brainer. The issue I find is many eaa products are very misleading. There are a few good ones but sometimes if I am on certain websites I can't find 1 product. The issue is many are mainly just bcaa's with a tiny amount of the other aminos added but labelled as eaa's. So I would recommend looking at the label closely and finding a product that contains all 9 including histidine.


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## BG (Jul 17, 2018)

b-boy said:


> leave it to meatheads to overthing fucking everything.. If you are consuming quality protein sources every few hours what the fuck are you worried about? BCAAs are just fine to use intra workout. FUCK ME!!!




Omg.. I was just going to type the EXACT fucking thing! Too much thinking. And all these intra..post work out drinks. This macro .. that micro.. NO MAS!!!! Lift and fucking eat


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## odin (Jul 25, 2018)

I don't agree with throwing bcaa's in the trash. They are 3 of the most important amino acids. It's better to have all eaa's but nothing wrong with adding extra bcaa's on top of things. People post like they are different things. BCAA's are 3 of the 9 essential aminos acids. If I am buying one product I would go with eaa's but there are lot's of protein sources you can add bcaa's to. I would agree the market is flooded with useless products.


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## jp82088 (Aug 4, 2018)

RamboStallone said:


> The more complete the protein is, the better it works, period. Protein foods including whey are much more beneficial then aminos. BCAAs is only 3 aminos, yea pretty much useless. The marketing BS labeled these 3 aminos as being most important, well Yea if the other aminos are present. I would say if you take your BCAAs with a complete protein (whey) then they will be effective. So I always had a protein shake with whey and/or egg whites preworkout and sipped on the BCAAs intra.  EAAs are more effective but complete proteins are still best.



Couldn't have said it better mate.


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## MR. BMJ (Aug 5, 2018)

Yea, don't throw them into the trash, but EAA's are superior. Unless my workouts are super long, which they usually aren't much more than an hour with maybe a little cardio afterward, I just use a whey/solid protein an hour or two prior in a semi easy digestible meal, then have a post w/o drink afterward. If i'm going long stretches between, along with a longer w/o schedule, then I add in an intra EAA mixed drink. 


I prefer EAA's over PeptoPro, which I think is overhyped and a waste, personally. Your wallet will thank you too. 


I'm more of a science guy, so I read everything that Lyle, Alan Aragon, Brad Schoenfeld, et al put out, then apply it to my own workouts and eating. Meadows follows these same guys and applies it to his workouts and eating as well. Those guys are banging out phenomenal research these days. Not all of it applies to a competitor, but some or a lot does depending on the context of the situation. They've been saying BCAA's are a waste for a long time, and the most recent research shows the same, and John even came out on Facebook about this same topic.


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## Big Dave Smith (Sep 10, 2018)

Thankfully, Jordan and I went to the same people for info.  Haven’t touched BCAA’s in 10 years.  EAA’s and PeptoPro (along with whey iso) for as long as I remember.  Dante Trudel and Scott Stevenson have preached this for years.  I’d feel naked without intra PeptoPro!  LOL


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## Jtooswol (Oct 20, 2018)

Milo swears by eea’s too


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## Jim550 (Oct 20, 2018)

EAA's have my vote, thats what I always use in my pre/intra/post. Wouldn't throw out bcaas if you got em but I would switch to EAA's next time you pick some thing up and add extra leucine if it is not already higher in the supplement you buy.  TrueNutrition has an EAA powder and Leucine 4:1 EAA product last time I looked, good stuff!


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## ProFIT (Oct 21, 2018)

Jtooswol said:


> Milo swears by eea’s too



He has been for years and why I swopped over. I don't use much but look out for eaa's when I do. Although I disagree bcaa's should be thrown out as they are 3 of the eaa's. I look out for an eaa product with a high leucine content.


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