# The preworkout thread



## Elvia1023

I have been using a lot of pre workouts over the last year so thought I would start this thread. I figured we could all post our favourite pre workouts and why. New ones come out all the time too so I can keep this thread updated. Although I am gonna calm them down alittle for health reasons but no chance I will be stopping. I should note I used to be extra sensitive to caffeine but over time that is the opposite now.

Here are a few I have tried in recent times each with a brief review...

GAT Nitraflex- Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice.

Gaspari SP250- Very good. Better for energy and focus than pumps bit overall a great pre workout. It did make me crash a bit later on though. I would get the shakes too. Ver strong even at just 1 scoop and it is not a 1 scoop formula.

Beast Yourself Raging Bull- Very good. On paper it is incredible but doesn't live on to that. Really good pumps and combined with an espresso it comes alive even more.

Lee Lebrada Super Charge Xtreme 4.0- Not impressed at all. I bought a big tub and I doubt I will even have half over 6 months. Not a cheap pre workout either. It's meant to have loads of caffeine in but I feel a single espresso more. Might be ok for some but definitely not for me.

Dorian Yates NOX Pump- Decent. I used this years ago and it was incredible. This time nowhere as good so the formula must be different (something got banned). Maybe better than decent as with an espresso I am an animal in the gym. This an a single espresso was a fav of mine for a while.

Cobra Labs The Curse- Fantastic. On paper this is the worst one. Very basic etc. I think it has 125mg caffeine and 5mg olive leaf extract. But I feel this a lot and it seems to get great reviews by most. Very cheap too. 2 scoops of this will make you a machine in the gym. 1 scoop (125mg caffeine) is stronger than Lee Lebrada's and Nitraflex that are suppose to have alsorts in including 325mg+ caffeine. Definitely recommend if you want something simple but effective.

GSN's NitroNOX Pro- Best pre workout I have ever taken. This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to anyone.

Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme- Amazing. This only has 80mg caffeine per scoop and is more a pump one. Incredible pumps and feel with a nice boost in energy. 2 scoops of this will give you ridiculous pumps and great energy. One of the best I have ever used.

MRI Black Powder- Crap. Not even worth writing more about. How can you fuck up a pre workout so much. 2 pro plus would be better.

Musclemeds NO BULL- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feel very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks or so.

Rich Piana's 5% Nutrition KILL IT- This one I only tried a sample so take this review with a pinch of salt. I wasn't impressed and expected/hoped for better as I like 5%. Didn't notice too much but again only a sample. I am gonna order a few of their products in the future so will get this to try out properly.


I have just order jym pre jym that is the best rated pre workout on bodybuilding.com. It sounds great so I am hoping it is. I know nothuman just used that so maybe you can chime in. Their list is nothing to go by though as nitraflex is no.6 and No Explode is no.3. Although I see the Curse is no. 5 so pleased about that. 

CT Fletcher's new pre workout looks good. Angeldust by Blackstone Labs looks decent too so I may give that a try.


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## Magnus82

My 3 favorites were Buzz Saw from TN, Angeldust from Blackstone Labs,  and Hyde by ProSups. They worked very well and I used them.off and on for about 3 years,  but now being 40+ I can't seem to handle them anymore.  Can't sleep,  elevated heart rate,  shakes,.... Now I like inj b12, 100mg tne,  creatine,  and a little beta alanine.  Now if I'm feeling lucky,  I'll throw in some cialis.  Might as well kill 2 birds with one stone,  right!


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## cybrsage

Thanks for this!  You have tried a TON of preworkouts!

Have you ever tried Muscle Research Pump Juice Extreme?  I like the watermelon flavored one the best, it is a very mild taste.  I would be interested in where it falls in your list.


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## chicken_hawk

Hey Elvia, first I have tried some of the same, PRW's and am sick of paying for shit proprietary blends. And when I mean shit...that's what I did. So, I went with PreJym as well. I was very pleased and would continue to use it, but found Nutrex makes the identical product for less at Amazon.  Outlift is the exact same and I really like it. 

Now, and I realize you know this, but to reiterate for the newer members, a good pump requires good hydration. A dry muscle won't pump regardless of the preworkout and is actually in a catabolic state. So, if you have hydration issues try adding some maltodextrin and salt to your (new guy) daily water  intake. That alone will get a pump as keep in mind, guys having been getting pumps long before PRW's. Also,  for energy few things beat TNE, best PRW ever.

Hawk


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## Elvia1023

Magnus82 said:


> My 3 favorites were Buzz Saw from TN, Angeldust from Blackstone Labs,  and Hyde by ProSups. They worked very well and I used them.off and on for about 3 years,  but now being 40+ I can't seem to handle them anymore.  Can't sleep,  elevated heart rate,  shakes,.... Now I like inj b12, 100mg tne,  creatine,  and a little beta alanine.  Now if I'm feeling lucky,  I'll throw in some cialis.  Might as well kill 2 birds with one stone,  right!



I can't multi quote on this laptop so will have to answer each post one at a time 

Angeldust is on my list as I mentioned. I have heard the first is better than the v2 edition. Now Hyde by ProSupps is near the top of my list to try so I am sure I will post about that in the near future. They do a great amino product so check it out... flavours are amazing too. I bought 3 different flavours and they were all great.

I plan to try synthelamin in the near future as I haven't used b12 in years. 

I ran out of tadalafil  I just ordered some accutane and added 1 bottle onto my order. Plus I will get some from S too


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## Elvia1023

cybrsage said:


> Thanks for this!  You have tried a TON of preworkouts!
> 
> Have you ever tried Muscle Research Pump Juice Extreme?  I like the watermelon flavored one the best, it is a very mild taste.  I would be interested in where it falls in your list.



Matey they are in the last year too  They were all full tubs apart from the Rich Piana one as that was a sample. I never finish a tub though. After about 2 weeks I usually give them away. I done that with pretty much all of them my but did regret doing that with the NitroNOX. Some guy was asking me in the changing room what it was so I gave him about 2/3 of a scoop... not a full one incase he reacted bad  He kept saying how mad it was and the best thing he had ever used. He had never used a pre workout so no surprise really. When I was leaving the gym I gave it to him so he was made up. 

I haven't tried the one you mentioned matey but I am fan of watermelon flavour.


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## Elvia1023

chicken_hawk said:


> Hey Elvia, first I have tried some of the same, PRW's and am sick of paying for shit proprietary blends. And when I mean shit...that's what I did. So, I went with PreJym as well. I was very pleased and would continue to use it, but found Nutrex makes the identical product for less at Amazon.  Outlift is the exact same and I really like it.
> 
> Now, and I realize you know this, but to reiterate for the newer members, a good pump requires good hydration. A dry muscle won't pump regardless of the preworkout and is actually in a catabolic state. So, if you have hydration issues try adding some maltodextrin and salt to your (new guy) daily water  intake. That alone will get a pump as keep in mind, guys having been getting pumps long before PRW's. Also,  for energy few things beat TNE, best PRW ever.
> 
> Hawk



I actually need to start drinking more water through the day. Although I do drinks loads around my workouts. I have a large intra drink every day in the gym. Even if it doesn't contain carbs I still have aminos as I like flavoured drinks and they keep my hydrated and refreshed. 

I have actually used Nutrex Outlift just over a year ago. When it come out on paper it sounded amazing but it definitely didn't live up to it's label. However it is still a great pre workout and I recommend it too. Anyone who has taken citrulline malate will know how sweet/tart it tastes. What confused me is outlift is meant to contain loads of CM (is it 7 grams) and I could barely taste it. Citrulline malate is not cheap so it did give me some doubts. They have brought out a newer one but I haven't used that yet. If pre jym is as good as outlift I will be happy but I hope I respond a little better.


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## kubes

The best pre I have found is Mr Hyde. Keeps me going all day and gives me explosive energy during my training. Sounds like it's being reformulated though


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## Phoe2006

I'm gonna say Mr Hyde is the shit. Love it and on back day or leg day I'll take a scoop and a half anymore and I'm to amped up


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## cybrsage

As chicken_hawk said, TNE or Test Base (oil, water, both are good) is the best PWO every created.  That said, it also will spike your E2 level, so be careful!


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## Phoenixk2

I've tried many over the years but this one is my current and favorite, PREpare from SAR.


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## kubes

Phoe2006 said:


> I'm gonna say Mr Hyde is the shit. Love it and on back day or leg day I'll take a scoop and a half anymore and I'm to amped up



That's what I do too. 1.5 scoop is all you need to keep going all day long. I grabbed a bunch of it before they pulled it from the market. Hopefully the new formula is as good!


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## Sully

Elvia1023 said:


> I actually need to start drinking more water through the day. Although I do drinks loads around my workouts. I have a large intra drink every day in the gym. Even if it doesn't contain carbs I still have aminos as I like flavoured drinks and they keep my hydrated and refreshed.
> 
> I have actually used Nutrex Outlift just over a year ago. When it come out on paper it sounded amazing but it definitely didn't live up to it's label. However it is still a great pre workout and I recommend it too. Anyone who has taken citrulline malate will know how sweet/tart it tastes. What confused me is outlift is meant to contain loads of CM (is it 7 grams) and I could barely taste it. Citrulline malate is not cheap so it did give me some doubts. They have brought out a newer one but I haven't used that yet. If pre jym is as good as outlift I will be happy but I hope I respond a little better.



I like PreJym a lot more than Outlift. I actually haven't found anything I like as much as PreJym. It hits all the necessary ingredients without being overly heavy on stimulants. Although for the guys that like that stimmed out, shaky, tweaking feeling; it's not going to do it for you. PreJym gives me a great pump, steady clean energy with no crash, and a good bit of mental focus. Plus it actually tastes pretty good and mixes well. 

It is a lot more water than most people use, though. I've had several people that complain about how much water you have to use to mix it up (16-20oz). I just drink it slowly over a 30 minute period before I hit the gym and it doesn't bother me.


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## Elvia1023

I have posted this thread on a few forums and the most popular by far is HYDE. Long story short I will be trying my new one for the first time 2moro and not today like I had planned. Here is the tub...


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## Elvia1023

I used the PRE JYM today before training shoulders and tri-ceps. It's orange mango flavour and tasted nice. I can see why they recommend lots of water with it (very sweet). Anyway I am not impressed  Maybe if I had 2 months off caffeine and tried it I would be raving about it... I doubt it though. The thing with these pre workouts though it's not just about caffeine. The NitroNOX contains a few things and the focus you get from that is ridiculous. Caffeine can and will increase focus but not in the way other ingredients can. The added huperzine a helped matters but still not impressed. I got a good pump so overall it's a decent product but I expected more. It does remind me of Nutrex outlift in many ways. I might try just over 1 scoop 2moro and see how that goes.

Just adding I also got some Ronnie Coleman Amino-Tone in Cherry Lemonade and that was good. But just added 1 1/2 scoops to a large natural yoghurt and that was amazing. That is my new fav snack now


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## Elvia1023

I tried just over a scoop of PRE JYM and the same thing. I was training my gf so it wasn't the best of workouts but even after I put her on the exercise bike so I could train properly I didn't feel much from it. Interestingly though I struggled to sleep yesterday after taking it so it stays with you awhile just isn't that strong to me. 

Nothing ever bothers me but I guess the fact I have 4 nearly full tubs of pre workout above me whilst I read this is a bit of a waste. I guess I will just go for the strongest ones from now on or maybe have 2 months off caffeine. I only have about 5 coffees a week now though and my 1 serving of pre workout before the gym. I had a kazaar nespresso the other day which is meant to be 120mg caffeine and I was flying in the gym. Some of these products definitely don't contain whats on the label though.

HYDE will be next. I will still use the PRE JYM as it's a decent product but not everyday.

Ronnie Coleman Amino Tone is a complete success though. I bought IntraMD too but saving that for a special occasion


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## Magnus82

I think you'll like Hyde.  One of the strongest out there.  To bad you didn't get in on it when it still had 1,3 Dimeth in it,  instant beast mode.  Like Hawk,  I to have a physical job and at time is though to motivate yourself to train.  With that stuff,  20min later you have no choice


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## Concreteguy

I think there all bullshit. If you have no energy your diet is off. I have never had a professional coach (EVER) recommend an energy drink, ever. 
 I have three Rice Crispy treats before every training session. That's all the energy anyone needs to train.

  CG


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## ASHOP

CRAZE and DETONATE (THE ORIGINAL VERSIONS) 
were the best I have EVER  used. Never have I felt anything since that compared.


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## MattG

Concreteguy said:


> I think there all bullshit. If you have no energy your diet is off. I have never had a professional coach (EVER) recommend an energy drink, ever.
> I have three Rice Crispy treats before every training session. That's all the energy anyone needs to train.
> 
> CG



I dont use that shit either bro. I dont need a bunch of caffeine or stimulants to get me motivated to hit the gym...at all. I will admit, there are times when I'm just not "feelin it" for whatever reason on certain days. But after i get warmed up-always within 20 minutes, i'm in the zone and ready to accomplish what needs done. I have 1-2 cups of coffee in the morning max, and thats my total caffeine intake for the day. Can't even remember the last time i've taken creatine pre workout and thats not even a stimulant really. Idk, something just seems wrong about heart palpatating concoctions that are supposed to hype me up and give so called "amazing pumps".


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## greggy

I have to agree with CG. But I workout at 5 in the morning and sometimes I need a little boost. I used to use Blackstone Labs but have recently purchased this one. Really nice.


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## Elvia1023

Concreteguy said:


> I think there all bullshit. If you have no energy your diet is off. I have never had a professional coach (EVER) recommend an energy drink, ever.
> I have three Rice Crispy treats before every training session. That's all the energy anyone needs to train.
> 
> CG



Maybe I should add I 100% don't need pre workouts at all. I have lots of energy and most of the best workouts I have ever had are when I used no pre workouts. I wouldn't recommend them to people who don't use either as large amounts of stimulants are not good for health... especially if a guy is taking loads of aas etc. Taking large amounts of stimulants is definitely a bad thing and I am sure in the near future I won't use them so oftenly.

Now needing and wanting is different as I simply love them. I love the feel they bring etc. Some guys smoke pot, others get drunk, many vape now... I take pre workouts... and get drunk too


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## Elvia1023

Magnus82 said:


> I think you'll like Hyde.  One of the strongest out there.  To bad you didn't get in on it when it still had 1,3 Dimeth in it,  instant beast mode.  Like Hawk,  I to have a physical job and at time is though to motivate yourself to train.  With that stuff,  20min later you have no choice



Yes HYDE will be next. I am sure there is a uk company selling a pre workout with 1,3 Dimeth in even though it is banned. I will have to look into that. Do you know if the original Dorian Yates one had that in or was that after the ban? I remember taking it and it was incredible but the one I got more recently was nowhere as good (still decent though).

I never need motivation to train I just love the feeling  But sure I know many guys who work long hours so pre workouts really help them out. There was a guy in my old gym who was like that and I introduced him to the The Curse by Cobra Labs. The guy worked 70+ hours per week and was made up with it. I will never forget the smile on his face when he took it before cardio and I came down about 40 mins later to see how he was feeling


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## Concreteguy

Have you tried just purchasing caffeine tabs? Save your money bro.  But that's just my opinion.
  I feel and have had explained to me buy people I truly respect in this field, that masking a tiered body that shouldn't be training with ZIP DRINKS is a really bad thing to do. Again, if your tiered and don't feel like training there is a reason. Could be sugar or your starting to get ill but what ever reason it is, sending a faults positive to your brain to train isn't going to achieve the end results your looking for.
  I have seen several pro's drink 1 cup of BLK coffee before training. This is the same as taking a couple caffeine tabs. LOL Have you looked at whats in that panther piss? Hey, I'll stick to my "high doses" 
 But again, this is just my opinion. To each their own. 

  CG


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## Elvia1023

Yes we all have different opinions and thats cool. Lots of pro's take nothing and others use tonnes of stimulants but I don't care what pro's do. I just like taking pre workouts and others don't. I have tried caffeine pills and I love coffee. I started a coffee thread on promuscle as I am a big fan of it. I sometimes just have a nespresso before the gym. Some give me a nice flow of energy whilst something like a kazaar or dharken will get me wired. I limit my coffee intake though due to the caffeine content and the fact I use pre workouts.

I didn't use "high doses" in relation to you at all. I was merely pointing out lots of stimulants on high doses is a majorly bad thing for some (especially if there is a genetic heart issue going on). Loads of guys on the forums take high doses. The high doses can thicken your blood etc. The stimulants will make your heart beat like crazy. I know a guy who had a heart attack in his late 20's due to that. Although in his case the 'stimulant' was coke. He had thick blood (high haematocrit, haemoglobin etc etc) and took coke which made his heart beat like crazy. Then he popped a viagra at the end of the night so all in all his body went wtf. He had a heart attack and half of his body is paralysed now.

Again I am very rarely tired and I don't take these to make me want to train. If I need motivation to go the gym on an odd day I watch a Branch Warren video... i don't copy his form though 




Concreteguy said:


> Have you tried just purchasing caffeine tabs? Save your money bro.  But that's just my opinion.
> I feel and have had explained to me buy people I truly respect in this field, that masking a tiered body that shouldn't be training with ZIP DRINKS is a really bad thing to do. Again, if your tiered and don't feel like training there is a reason. Could be sugar or your starting to get ill but what ever reason it is, sending a faults positive to your brain to train isn't going to achieve the end results your looking for.
> I have seen several pro's drink 1 cup of BLK coffee before training. This is the same as taking a couple caffeine tabs. LOL Have you looked at whats in that panther piss? Hey, I'll stick to my "high doses"
> But again, this is just my opinion. To each their own.
> 
> CG


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## Elvia1023

I trained chest and tri-ceps today and decided to use one of my older pre workouts. I went with the Gaspari SP250 and have probably left it a little too long as it had gone all lumpy but obviously still gtg. This one hits me hard and I only used just over 1 scoop. It says 1-2 scoops on the back so I will have to try more sometime. In the past when I done 1 1/2 scoops it was too strong as I would get the shakes post workout. 

I needed the energy today... some bad news from home etc so I wasn't at my mental best. I wanted to go though so I watched a few vids on you-tube and took it then left for the gym. I had a great workout and pushed it. My strength is starting to come back. I have never been the strongest with my chest but I done 3 plates a side on barbell incline chest press (high incline too). It felt great and I got a personal trainer to spot me. He couldn't spot though as before I had fully failed he was helping it back up. I said my bar though and done some negatives with his help to get it back up. I also done some 26kg db chest flyes for high reps. I never push the weight in that movement but gonna start.

I am on a pre workout high. Just replied to about 30 pm's in 30 mins whilst listening to Celine Dion and the Bee Gees... sad but true  Definitely gonna use the SP250 2moro when I train legs.


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## Elvia1023

I tried 1 1/2 scoops of Gaspari SP250 tonight and it was great. I just destroyed legs but I am wiped out. I can barely move


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## Elvia1023

I have got myself in a bad sleeping routine and slept a lot in the daytime earlier. So my plan is to stay awake all night and go the gym at 8am. I will go to bed early 2moro so will be back in a good routine and will stay in it. Gonna try Nitraflex again but a bigger serving... I am gonna need it


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## cybrsage

Elvira - of all the PWOs you have taken, which one would you choose as the best if you had to choose just one?


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## rAJJIN

Ive been adding 12.5mg Epghedrine to the new c-4 
Its better then any of there old formula. Just hope my heart doesn't blow out :sport-smiley-003:


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## Elvia1023

rAJJIN said:


> Ive been adding 12.5mg Epghedrine to the new c-4
> Its better then any of there old formula. Just hope my heart doesn't blow out :sport-smiley-003:



You know you were asking about HYDE. Did you see the sponsor on pro muscle? They are selling it for $15 a tub including delivery. That is ridiculous and they can't be making barely anything on each sale at that price. Just shows you how cheap they are to manufacture. I will probably just order some at regular price when I next put in a big supplement order (in the new year). That's a great deal for guys in the US though.


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## Elvia1023

cybrsage said:


> Elvira - of all the PWOs you have taken, which one would you choose as the best if you had to choose just one?



NitroNOX Pro by GSN Nutrition. Everyone I know who has used it loved it.


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## Elvia1023

I stayed up all night and done a few things in the morning before leaving for the gym. It's been so cold here but it was strangely sunny today and a beautiful day. I walked over Lake Geneva and the feeling I got is why I am happy to live here. Although the 2 scoops of PRE JYM I had just taken could have added to things  That's 600mg caffiene in an already tired state so I was flying. 

I had a great workout and trained back and done a mixture of heavy and light. I managed to get 10 reps out on low bar rows with 5 plates each side. 2 scoops also has 100mcg huperzine a in so that definitely added to things. Although for such an amount it wasn't like it hit me super hard. Trying to give a comparison but hard to do as I would never drink so many nespressos. But the kazaar is suppose to have 120mg caffiene in. I know for a fact if I had 3 of those in one go I would probably have a breakdown in the gym and thats 360mg caffeine. 2 of them and I would be on fire so it just shows you.

One thing I did notice from the 2 scoops is the pump. It got to a stage were I couldn't lift anymore as my forearms would give in. I tried to do cable rows at the end of my back workout but the pump was too much.


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## Elvia1023

I used 1 1/2 scoops of Nitraflex tonight and had an amazing workout. Although I was amped up and ready to go before I had even had a sip of the nitraflex. I trained for over 2 hours and hard too. I wasn't wired from the extra 1/2 scoop but it tonnes better than 1 scoop only. I done 30kg db flyes so I was pleased with that. That was after heavy decline presses, heavy smith incline presses, weighted dips and cable crossovers. 

I feel wired now though. Just had an nespresso


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## Phoe2006

kubes said:


> That's what I do too. 1.5 scoop is all you need to keep going all day long. I grabbed a bunch of it before they pulled it from the market. Hopefully the new formula is as good!




I just got some that match my exact old label from an online site . Same levels of caffeine etc so idk. I know they were going after high caffeine supplements a couple months ago but worth checking out. They might've also forgot to change the label info on the site as well idk


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## psych

Glycerol, ephedrine, caffeine, creatine, and mix it all in pedialyte.  That's my shit!  
EAA during session but that cocktail is set.  It's cheap to make and buy each thing in bulk. Buying preworkout is like having a high maintenance girl, I can afford you but I don't need you. 

Not prepping for a meet Just coffee or what ever free sample I get to try out plus carbs.

At powerlifting meets it's another story.....


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## Elvia1023

Today I had one of my favourite combo's. Not had it for ages and had an amazing workout and felt great. I could have trained for 4 hours non stop if I wanted to. Plus I trained hard... I actually threw up in my mouth doing quads  I also got 7 slow reps with 3 plates a side for incline barbell presses so was pleased with that. My chest is my weakest bodypart and I am building my strength back up. I trained at 5pm and it is 4am now and I still feel great 

Anway I had 1 sachet of Dorian Yates NOX Pump walking into the gym. Plus my gym has a coffee machine and I took a Kazaar Nespresso pod and had that just after getting in the gym. Clean energy and good focus with a great pump. I only have 1 sachet left so going to save it. I bought a box with 30 sachets and have had it for ages.


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## ASHOP

I just got some APS Mesomorph in a few days back. Its has some DMAA in it. Looking forward to trying it this week.


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## Elvia1023

ASHOP said:


> I just got some APS Mesomorph in a few days back. Its has some DMAA in it. Looking forward to trying it this week.



That's suppose to be great. I had 1 scoop of PRE GYM today and felt amazing. I am that happy to be back training though it may have just been that


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## Elvia1023

I have Kaged Muscle Pre-Kaged, ErgoGenix ErgoBlast and GAT PMP on the way. All in the name of research 

I would have ordered HYDE but the company I used had sold out. I will get that soon though.


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## Elvia1023

The other day I tried 2 scoops of SP-250 as I had stayed awake all night and gone the gym in the morning. I had an amazing workout and the SP-250 definitely made the difference. I find it crazy that they recommend 1-2 scoops on the label as to me 2 scoops is way too strong for most people. Maybe I am just sensitive to one of the ingredients but I always crash hard from 2 scoops. I can have 600mg caffeine and be fine and no crash but that stuff hits me hard everytime. With 1 scoop I am fine but 1.5-2 scoops and the crash always happens. I was on the bus and started sweating bad... it's like going hypo. I did have slin but no hypo at all as I have felt the exact same off slin too when using larger amounts. I got in and my top was soaked through so definitely be careful going too high with SP250. It's a great pre workout though for energy and focus just use with caution.


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## Elvia1023

Here are my new supplies


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## Elvia1023

Today I decided to take GAT PMP for the first time. I did look at it thinking why did I buy this. I was hoping for the best as Nitraflex was a bit of a let down. It's fucking identical in feel/results  I literally feel exactly the same when using Nitraflex  It's decent but not worth the purchase. I am sure if a guy who didn't take many pre workout bought it they would likely be made up but not for me. I took just over a scoop and had a good workout but I was looking forward to going the gym even last night so would have anyway. 

I gave my nearly full tub of Nitraflex away today. I will use this PMP a few more times to see if it gets better but as of now a waste fo money for me  I will be more careful with my funds in the future as even on paper it doesn't sound great. I think GAT in general are not the best of companies so I won't be buying anything from them again. I got amazing pumps in the gym but as mentioned previously I do all the time due to other things.  

2moro it will be ErgoGenix ErgoBlast... hopefully I am saving the best till last


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## Elvia1023

Yesterday I used Ergogenix's Ergoblast for the first time. I think with me I have almost got to the point if something doesn't make me feel wired I don't rate it so I need to get out of that. Although Ergoblast didn't do that but I still thought it was excellent. I took it before leaving then got a tram then walked the rest of the way. I literally felt on top of the world walking to the gym. No surprise really when you look at it's stimulation blend. No pre workout has done that to me in ages. 

I felt clean energy and good focus. I ended up having an amazing workout. I didn't push the weight too much on back but trained very hard. I finished with tri-ceps and done a few isolation movements with light weight. I didn't have much time so I finished with close grip bench press on the flat bench. I amazing and ended up going up to 70kg a side so was made up with that. My chest was probably the most pumped up it has ever been. I struggled to get a shower afterwards. 

There was no crash afterwards either but I did sweat a lot more than usual. My top is always soaked after every training day but I literally couldn't get dry after my shower  I have the strawberry ice flavour and it tasted nice. All in all a great product and I look forward to using it again later. 

I will list the ingredients for everyone. Actually here is a pic to save time...


----------



## Elvia1023

Yesterday I used Ergogenix's Ergoblast for the 2nd time. I had the same sense of well being surge not long after dosing. I felt great on the way to the gym. Although this time I didn't feel the in gym effects as much. Not sure why and perhaps I have just adapted super quick to the scoop. It still felt great though. This is not an over stimulated feeling at all... just clean energy and focus. I trained shoulders an.d quads and the pump was great. I will likely use it again tonight for calves, hams, bi-ceps and tri-ceps so that will be a good gauge on pump etc. All in all a great product so far which definitely has a different feel to most pre workouts.


----------



## Elvia1023

Long story short I missed the gym as it closed early so I will be going 2moro. Gonna try my new pre workout 2moro for the first time. The label is so big I couldn't take a pic with my phone so check this out...






You can't get much better than that I just hope it performs. If it's gonna fail in any area it may be the focus and energy aspect. Although caffeine from green coffee beans usually suits me and thats a nice dose of l-tyrosine.


----------



## ASHOP

Posted this somewhere else too. I like the AMP Citrate based pre workouts. I have used these with success:

1> Hercules 
2> ANN PRE-WORKOUT EXTREME
3> CTD HyperCuts


----------



## Elvia1023

ASHOP said:


> Posted this somewhere else too. I like the AMP Citrate based pre workouts. I have used these with success:
> 
> 1> Hercules
> 2> ANN PRE-WORKOUT EXTREME
> 3> CTD HyperCuts



Yes I have this thread on pro msucle too  I asked you the same question on there too. Just wondering but what is the best out of the three?


----------



## Elvia1023

Earlier I trained for the first time in 2 weeks. I haven't had a pre workout in all that time but have been drinking lots of tea and occasional coffee (most days 1 coffee). I trained my whole body for about 2 hours so it was a good tester for the Kaged Muscle.

My tub is fruit punch flavour and it was ok. Not nice but no surprise when you see all the ingredients. It says to have it 30-45 mins before training but I started feeling the effects pretty quickly. I got the tram to the gym and I felt really stimulated. The traffic was bad and I even felt like getting off and running I was feeling that good  Got in the gym and for about 1 min felt almost too stimulated but that soon went away.

I had a great workout and the energy lasted awhile. This is definitely stronger stimulant wise for me than most I have tried. I find the form of caffeine is just as important as the amount in pre workouts. Although I have had a short break so that is a factor. Pump was good but nothing mind blowing. I definitely need to give this a few more days to better judge it. Not as good as I thought it would be but still good so I am pleased. I am going to train a lot this week so will use it every time I do.


----------



## ASHOP

Elvia1023 said:


> Yes I have this thread on pro msucle too  I asked you the same question on there too. Just wondering but what is the best out of the three?



Sorry I didn't see your reply at PM. I like them best as numbered but you cant go wrong with any of them,,Hercules was my favorite.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been taking PreKaged over a few days now and well it's a weird one. It's not a super strong blow your head off pre workout but the energy is clean and very long lasting. It's more subtle and in the past I may have marked it down for that (wanting to feel wired if US guys know that term). But the more I use it the more I love it. 

I trained legs today and pushed it harder than I have in a long time. Pre kaged puts me in a great zone without it being too much. I can still concentrate and chill if I need too. Some strong pre workouts can sometimes be too much and you can barely hold a conversation because you are that wired. Plus it's full of great ingredients such the added aminos. 

When I first used it I was almost disappointed but after using it more it's definitely one of my favourites. I used just over a scoop today and 2moro will use 1 1/2 scoops (not gonna go above that ever though). It's certainly not a cheap pre workout as the tub is only 20 servings which is lower than most other preworkouts.


----------



## Elvia1023

I may have judged GAT's PMP too soon. I have used Pre Kaged 4 times in a row so decided to mix it up and tried PMP earlier today. A major factor will be my stomach was fairly empty when usually I eat quite a lot around training. I just had a synthepure smoothie with 2 apples and some berries with water so nothing really. I had 1 scoop last time so this time used just 1 scoop but you know a 1 scoop that has the most powder on possible  I would say just under 1.5 scoops. I could feel it on the tram and well was wired. I got in the gym and needed the toilet and left covered in sweat  It was too much... could barely concentrate. But once I focused and started training it was great but still alittle too much. Great pump and lots of energy and to my surprise no major crash (a little one). So perhaps I didn't waste my money with that one. 

I am going back to pre-kaged 2moro but will use pmp on occasions when I want the extra mental boost. It will be good when I train legs. I was actually going to use Gaspari SP-250 today as that is great for energy. The sp250 and pmp are similar so at least I have both of them if I ever need them.


----------



## Elvia1023

I left this thread this week but have been experimenting and tried a new pre workout. I also used GAT's PMP twice this week and weirdly once it was great again and the 2nd time not so good. I took 1 1/2 scoops and that is too much as it's just caffeine anhydrous (487.5mg) so it hits you like a brick wall. It gets you wired and I trained like a mad man but not the best feeling. The meals I consume around training have a huge influence on it's effectiveness. That's obvious but it's effects are literally night and day difference between my stomach being full and me just having a protein smoothie before training.

The new one I tried was Nutrex's Hemo Range Black. Last year this would have looked strong to me but now it's pretty standard. The first day I had 1 scoop just before training and it was good. This one hits you really fast... within minutes. I trained a long time and actually went in the lokcer room in the middle of training and knocked back another 1/2 scoop. This felt really good to me but nothing majorly strong. Although I couldn't sleep at all later on. I literally sat up on my comp and was wide awake at 6am  I tried it another 2 times and used just over 1 scoop each time. This is nothing special but a good overall pre workout. This one really isn't a great pump product and more about energy and focus.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have ordered a new preworkout and will start it on 27th Jan. It's the strongest pre workout I have ever seen... it's gonna blow my head off


----------



## ASHOP

I'm going to have to back off the pre workouts myself. I had a half scoop of Hercules and 6 hours later I had a doctors check up. My BP was 170/100.


----------



## Elvia1023

ASHOP said:


> I'm going to have to back off the pre workouts myself. I had a half scoop of Hercules and 6 hours later I had a doctors check up. My BP was 170/100.



I will be doing the same. I go away for 2 weeks in Feb so will be having nothing for those 2 weeks. Maybe a few coffees in 2 weeks but thats it.

I am flying to the UK now for the w/e and have ordered that strong pre workout to my parents address. I will post about it later. It has AMP Citrate and the legal dose of caffeine plus many other things. You got me onto that AMP citrate so I blame you


----------



## Elvia1023

Elvia1023 said:


> I have ordered a new preworkout and will start it on 27th Jan. It's the strongest pre workout I have ever seen... it's gonna blow my head off



I will be trying it tonight  They sent me a pre workout sample sachet so I used that yesterday. I was made up as the sample was Brawn Nutrition's Venom 2.0 which I wanted to try out and I mentioned it earlier in the thread. Venom 2.0 on paper is strong stuff and it didn't disappoint. Although I was expecting it to be much stronger stimulant wise but still decent. It has amp citrate, caffeine and theobromine so this is not for the stimulant sensitive at all. Great pump and general feel and surprisingly no bad crash. I did feel very tired post workout but that was likely due to MK-677.

Here are the ingredients in Venom 2.0

Container size: 300 g   
Serving size: 10 g (one scoop)   
Servings per container: 30   
Supplement facts: per portion (10 g) amount %RDA  
 Creatinol-o-phosphate 2000 mg -  
 Trimethylglycine 2500 mg -  
 Dlpa 2000 mg -  
 Sulbutiamine 600 mg -  
 N-methyl-betamethylphenylethyamine 100 mg -  
 AMP Citrate 300 mg -  
 Caffeine 300 mg -  
 Theanine 200 mg -  
 Sensoril 225 mg -  
 Pterostilbene 100 mg - 


Now it's time for my new one. It's called Cannibal Ferox Amped. This should hit me hard. For the first time in a long time I am actually a little anxious about taking 1 scoop. It has the legal amount of caffeine plus amp citrate and large doses of other effective stimulants. Gonna take it in a bit and head to the gym. Check out the ingredients...


----------



## Elvia1023

I am back and well  Cannibal Ferox Amped was great. Again maybe not as strong as I thought it would be. But still it was great and I had lots of energy and great pumps. The area this one really stands out in is mental focus (no surprise looking at what's in it) and that only added to my workout. I was destroyed after training and sure it's due to hard training but I also think these high dosed stimulants tend to cause that post workout fatigue. It doesn't help I am on MK-677 either. 

At no point did I feel over stimulated or that it was too much. This and 3ml synthetine pre workout resulted in increased vascularity and basically me looking twice as good compared to before I started lifting. I definitely recommend this for the guys who like their stimulants.


----------



## Elvia1023

I used 1 scoop of Cannibal Ferox Amped before legs yesterday and had a great workout but I struggled through it. I don't know if it was the MK-677 and/or too many stimulants but I felt tired throughout the workout. My heart was beating far too fast which is not good. If I use it again it will just be 1/2 scoop and not overdo things. I also felt sick during training which is likely due to the pre workout too. Over the next few weeks I am going to calm down the stimulants and just stick to 1 scoop of my other pre workouts or just have a nespresso instead.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been on vacation for 2 weeks and I probably trained about 7 times in that time. No pre workout but the odd coffee or 2. 

Today was the first day back in the gym at home and I tried 1 scoop of Hemo Rage Black. My sensitivity is much higher and I could feel this and I had a great workout. Hemo Rage is all about energy and focus and doesn't really do anything for pump. 

My plan for the next few months is to use more pump products and no stimulant junkie types. So if I use any of my higher caffeine content ones it will just be 1 scoop max. The likes of Cannibal Ferox Amped will be 1/2 scoop if I use it. I plan to get a few news ones over the next few months.

I have Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice on the way and looking forward to using it


----------



## Stallion

I've been using KRE Ex lately but will try something different when I run out. I will say that I'm not a fan of the C4 stuff.


----------



## Elvia1023

I trained shoulders and quads today and used just over 1 scoop of PRE JYM and it felt great. PRE JYM is a great all rounder and gives decent energy and great pumps. I have only just realized something... I have a reoccuring trap injury and I felt it today. I have stated in the past I always seemed to get issues when training back with PRE JYM or similar. Like the increased pump made me more sensitive as the issue I get feels like a pulled muscle. I stopped using pump products before back and never had an issue for months. I completely forgot so this is more than a coincidence has it has happened at least 3 times after I used PRE JYM. Well it looks like it will be a nespresso before back or shrugs from now on just to be safe.


----------



## ASHOP

Elvia1023 said:


> I trained shoulders and quads today and used just over 1 scoop of PRE JYM and it felt great. PRE JYM is a great all rounder and gives decent energy and great pumps. I have only just realized something... I have a reoccuring trap injury and I felt it today. I have stated in the past I always seemed to get issues when training back with PRE JYM or similar. Like the increased pump made me more sensitive as the issue I get feels like a pulled muscle. I stopped using pump products before back and never had an issue for months. I completely forgot so this is more than a coincidence has it has happened at least 3 times after I used PRE JYM. Well it looks like it will be a nespresso before back or shrugs from now on just to be safe.




Interesting you mention this. For a long time I RARELY used a pre workout,,only some coffee on my way in to the gym. Anyways I have been using various ones over the last few months and about 6 weeks ago while amped up on some AAN Extreme I injured my upper back. Ive been out of the gym the entire time and just went back this week. I think I'm done with the pre workouts for awhile. I'm not saying that's what caused my injury but I hardly ever get hurt and would have to say its a coincidence a similar issue has happened more than once with Elvia here as explained per his post.


----------



## BigBob

I've tried many and I settled on making my own caps with caffeine and some nootropics. All the others just get me too jittery. But then again I'm getting older And notice it more I guess.


----------



## Elvia1023

ASHOP said:


> Interesting you mention this. For a long time I RARELY used a pre workout,,only some coffee on my way in to the gym. Anyways I have been using various ones over the last few months and about 6 weeks ago while amped up on some AAN Extreme I injured my upper back. Ive been out of the gym the entire time and just went back this week. I think I'm done with the pre workouts for awhile. I'm not saying that's what caused my injury but I hardly ever get hurt and would have to say its a coincidence a similar issue has happened more than once with Elvia here as explained per his post.



Sometimes I may have injured (minor) myself due to a pre workout simply due to being so amped up and really pushing the weight. But the back injury I mentioned above is definitely due to the effects the pre workout has on pump etc. I wasn't even lifting heavy and was using perfect form.  As you mention you have experienced similar so chances are it's not coincidence. I have a update to post which is very similar.


----------



## Elvia1023

In the last week I have tried a few pre workouts from my collection. Firstly I took just over 1 scoop of Pre-Kaged by Kaged Muscle. I trained chest and tri-ceps and had a great workout. Interestingly I had a muscle spasm in my abs when doing standing rope crunches at the end of my workout. When I got home my chest started spasming too. Then each of my tri-ceps started and they stayed awhile. I have had muscle spasms in the past but only 1 muscle at a time. I was well hydrated and had consumed taurine and had also drank coconut water and had a banana so my potassium was good. Regardless of the reason I can safely state it never would have happened if I hadn't had used the pre workout. It's similar to the above when I had issues with my back. Pre Kaged is very similar to Pre Jym too. I know I have to be careful with certain pre workout especially when I train like I do at times for long periods performing multiple hard sets.

As a result I decided for the rest of the week I would use more energy promoting products. One day I used just over 1 scoop of Hemo Rage and that was great. That's all about energy and it does a good job. It doesn't feel really strong to me but it's a good boost and a decent product. It helped me through an intense 2 hour workout.

Last time I trained I tried the strongest product I own... Cannibal Ferox Amped. I have told myself not to go crazy on the stimulants anymore so really I shouldn't be using it. But from the few times I have taken it I know it has potential. An issue with it is sometimes when you take too many stimulants they can have the opposite effect. Therefore I tried about 2/3 of a scoop this time. I got the bus to the gym and was stood there wired off my head but in the best possible way. I felt really focused even just waiting for the bus  I ended up having a great workout and fely a big boost from this product. I am using MK-677 now and it makes me tired and I actually fell asleep after my workout (about 7pm) so the pre workout didn't over stimulant me.

2moro I am going to go with 2/3 of a scoop of Ferox Amped Pump again. When I get Pump Juice I will give that a solid run to test it's complete effectiveness.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have my Pump Juice Extreme and gonna try it for the first time today  The ingredient list looks amazing and ideal for me. It's has a nice blend of stimulants... nothing too high but definitely not for the sensitive. Plus the pump ingredients look great. Obviously the quality of ingredients is key as I learnt a long time ago you can't always go by the ingredient panel. Looking at the list though it should and hopefully provide great pumps and a well balanced and long lasting energy boost. I will let guys know how it feels later and over the next few weeks.


----------



## Elvia1023

Today I tried Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice Extreme (cherry berry explosion flavour) for the first time. From the smell I thought it would taste great but it didn't taste as nice as I first thought it would. Nothing bad though and actually fairly nice for a pre workout powder. I trained legs today and pushed it hard. The energy was clean and prolonged but not as strong as I thought it would be. Although lets take into account I have used the strongest pre workout (energy wise) I have ever seen the previous 2 days in the gym. Now let's get to the pump... this is where it truely shines. It is ridiculous and my legs literally felt like they doubled in size. My calves probably looked the biggest they have ever looked. Plus this is on leg day were I naturally don't get as good a pump as say for arms or chest.

So one day in and I am very impressed. I will know more when I use it before other days. The energy was good but I need to give it a few more days to better evaluate it. This is the sort of pre workout I want to start using more as the crazy stimulant blends are not good in the long run. I have a feeling I will be able to barely move 2moro so I may have a day off. My next day in the gym will likely be chest and arms and I look forward to it


----------



## kubes

Well I tried mr Hyde new formula and wasn't impressed compared to the old so I will be looking over this thread to find something new


----------



## Elvia1023

kubes said:


> Well I tried mr Hyde new formula and wasn't impressed compared to the old so I will be looking over this thread to find something new



It's good to see you posting  What are you after in a pre workout? Can you list energy, focus, pumps etc in order 1 being most important. Thanks


----------



## Elvia1023

I trained chest and tri-ceps today after using pump juice extreme for the 2nd time. I trained my gf for 30 mins which negatively effected my workout. It wasn't planned but she needed help and after about 4 months I finally actually helped her  Anyway I had about 50 mins to train and I really got into it. The pump was incredible... this is reason alone for me to recommend this. I had a nice energy boost and no crash. I didn't have long to train tri-ceps but the pump is literally ridiculous. This could be the best pump product I have ever taken. Others are the matrix no pump xtreme, gaspari superpump 250 (original) and nitro nox pro. It's been a while since I have used any of those but this is literally with those 3 in the top 4 of pre workout pump products I have ever used (I have tried loads). I could barely shower myself at the end 

Next will be back, bi-ceps and forearms so that should be fun


----------



## kubes

Elvia1023 said:


> It's good to see you posting  What are you after in a pre workout? Can you list energy, focus, pumps etc in order 1 being most important. Thanks




I like the mental focus energy and pump... I tried shatter black label by muscle tech. It has half the caffein of mr Hyde and to my surprise I really liked it


----------



## Elvia1023

kubes said:


> I like the mental focus energy and pump... I tried shatter black label by muscle tech. It has half the caffein of mr Hyde and to my surprise I really liked it



I posted a reply on pro muscle too. I can't remember if you have tried it but definitely NitroNOX Pro if you are after a bit of everything. As I mentioned on PM if the focus and energy is more important definitely give Cannibal Ferox Pumped a try too


----------



## kubes

Elvia1023 said:


> I posted a reply on pro muscle too. I can't remember if you have tried it but definitely NitroNOX Pro if you are after a bit of everything. As I mentioned on PM if the focus and energy is more important definitely give Cannibal Ferox Pumped a try too




Day 3 on shatter and I like it. I haven't built a tolerance yet but I will give those others a go


----------



## Elvia1023

Day 3 on pump juice extreme and I trained back, bi-ceps and forearms. I got over excited and done 2 scoops. Not sure why but if anything the effects were no better than 1 scoop. I got an amazing pump but felt a bit off but maybe that was down to stress due to various things. My energy definitely went down by the time it was train arms. That could have been down to too many stimulants or my MK-677 usage.

Day 4 was a completely different story. I took 1 1/2 scoops and trained calves and rear delts. I felt great and the pump was incredible. I am going to stick to a max of 1 1/2 scoops from now on. My calves were burning and the pump was so intense I could barely take it. I was doing high reps on calf presses then went onto 10 reps 5 sec rest 10 reps and repeated over and over. Afterwards I tried to fix my socks and I couldn't even roll up my tracksuit pants they were that pumped. Rear delts was more of the same just less pain for obvious reasons. I am loving the effects from this pre workout so far.


----------



## kubes

Nice brother I have noticed to that you have to find the sweet spot. More isn't really better


----------



## Elvia1023

Today I trained chest and bi-ceps for 50 mins. I only had 10 mins for bi-ceps but it was enough as I done quite a few fast paced sets. I used 1 scoop of Pump Juice Extreme just after having an espresso. The combo worked great and my workout was amazing. I also dosed 5ml synthetine and 20mg tadalafil pre workout and the combination of everything meant the best pump you could ever imagine. This pre workout is incredible for pumps so the added tadalafil wasn't even needed.

Post workout my chest was the biggest it has ever been. My arms were the same and I felt amazing. It hurt getting a shower as I could barely move my arms. I feel fuller by the day now thanks to the MK-677 and Pump Juice Extreme. I plan to add in some dbol and adrol so things are going to get even more crazy. 2moro I will be dosing 1 scoop of Pump Juice Extreme, 5ml of synthetine and 12.5mg MK-677 so more of the same


----------



## ASHOP

I'm still injured but lifting light again. No pre workouts at all lately. Only a strong cup of coffee on my way to the gym.


----------



## Elvia1023

ASHOP said:


> I'm still injured but lifting light again. No pre workouts at all lately. Only a strong cup of coffee on my way to the gym.



Yesterday I had 1 scoop of PumpJuice and an espresso pre workout. Then post workout I was in starbucks buying a large latte  Although that was all the caffeine for the day. Have you ever tried a nespresso machine? A good coffee is all you need pre workout but I still love my pre workout powders.


----------



## ASHOP

Elvia1023 said:


> Yesterday I had 1 scoop of PumpJuice and an espresso pre workout. Then post workout I was in starbucks buying a large latte  Although that was all the caffeine for the day. Have you ever tried a nespresso machine? A good coffee is all you need pre workout but I still love my pre workout powders.



I have a Keurig machine that I LOVE and I also make coffee in the mornings with an old fashioned perculator.


----------



## *Bio*

Elvia1023 said:


> Yesterday I had 1 scoop of PumpJuice and an espresso pre workout. Then post workout I was in starbucks buying a large latte  Although that was all the caffeine for the day. Have you ever tried a nespresso machine? A good coffee is all you need pre workout but I still love my pre workout powders.



...El,I feel sorry for your heart! LOL!!  It's EXTREMELY rare that I use any of the liquid crack products out there anymore.  Once in a great while I'll have half a Redline.  I've become more sensitive to its effects as I've gotten older.  I used to train and 4:30am...I would down a Redline and hit the ground running.  Not anymore.


----------



## kubes

*Bio* said:


> ...El,I feel sorry for your heart! LOL!!  It's EXTREMELY rare that I use any of the liquid crack products out there anymore.  Once in a great while I'll have half a Redline.  I've become more sensitive to its effects as I've gotten older.  I used to train and 4:30am...I would down a Redline and hit the ground running.  Not anymore.




Those redlines were great but these pre workouts are much stronger now


----------



## Elvia1023

*Bio* said:


> ...El,I feel sorry for your heart! LOL!!  It's EXTREMELY rare that I use any of the liquid crack products out there anymore.  Once in a great while I'll have half a Redline.  I've become more sensitive to its effects as I've gotten older.  I used to train and 4:30am...I would down a Redline and hit the ground running.  Not anymore.



My heart is not in a good place right now. It's fine with the caffeine but I dropped my last vial of deca and it cracked and all the oil went over the kitcheN floor  On the plus side my kitchen floor has never looked so good


----------



## Elvia1023

kubes said:


> Those redlines were great but these pre workouts are much stronger now



I would love to see Bio take 1 scoop of Cannibal Ferox Amped for entertainment purposes


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been using Pump Juice Extreme before every workout and it's still giving me the full effects. Yesterday for leg day I thought I would up the stimulants so added 1/4 scoop of Cannibal Ferox Amped. That was a great day and they worked well together.

Today I had a heaped scoop of pump juice extreme before training chest, shoulders and tri-ceps. Everything went great and more of the usual. Although I was tired beforehand and I hadn't ate much so my energy started to drop about 90 mins into my workout. That's to be expected for obvious reasons plus my body is definitely missing intra carbs and aminos.

Any guys trying out Pump Juice I recommend starting and maybe sticking to the 1 scoop serving as that seems perfect to me. The day I tried 2 scoops I actually got tired during my workout and the pumps weren't any better.


----------



## grizz

I liked muscle marinade a lot back in the day. Finally used it all up, but that stuff really gave me an extra push during competitions. Of course, it would raise BP high enough that erections weren't great, but who the hell has energy to get down after a comp. Oh right, thats all I want to do after...


----------



## Elvia1023

The other day I stayed up all night and was struggling by 8am. I had the bright idea of going the gym so took 1 heaped scoop of Pump Juice Extreme and headed to the gym. I took half a scoop of Cannibal Ferox Amped with me just because I knew I would need the extra energy later on. I trained calves and back for 2 1/2 hours and felt great. The pump was amazing but I was struggling for energy. The 2 combined felt good and kept me going. Obviously it's stupid training after no sleep but just a one off  I struggled for the rest of the day and ended up falling a sleep in my clothes  2moro will be shoulders and arms and I plan to take 1 scoop of Pump Juice which seems to be the best dose for me.


----------



## kubes

Elvia1023 said:


> The other day I stayed up all night and was struggling by 8am. I had the bright idea of going the gym so took 1 heaped scoop of Pump Juice Extreme and headed to the gym. I took half a scoop of Cannibal Ferox Amped with me just because I knew I would need the extra energy later on. I trained calves and back for 2 1/2 hours and felt great. The pump was amazing but I was struggling for energy. The 2 combined felt good and kept me going. Obviously it's stupid training after no sleep but just a one off  I struggled for the rest of the day and ended up falling a sleep in my clothes  2moro will be shoulders and arms and I plan to take 1 scoop of Pump Juice which seems to be the best dose for me.



I hate that when you can't get to sleep. Happens to me from time to time! Ugh


----------



## *Bio*

Elvia1023 said:


> I would love to see Bio take 1 scoop of Cannibal Ferox Amped for entertainment purposes



I just looked it up...sounds exhilarating! LOL!!  Funny thing is, I was reading some reviews and people were saying that it didn't give them the jitters which is good.

Back in the day I used to use the original Ultimate Orange and Razor Ripped...both ephedrine based.  I used to drink one Turbo Tea and one Razor Ripped and then train...good times!


----------



## Elvia1023

*Bio* said:


> I just looked it up...sounds exhilarating! LOL!!  Funny thing is, I was reading some reviews and people were saying that it didn't give them the jitters which is good.
> 
> Back in the day I used to use the original Ultimate Orange and Razor Ripped...both ephedrine based.  I used to drink one Turbo Tea and one Razor Ripped and then train...good times!



Considering how strong it looks on paper they are right. I never get the post workout jitters or anything negative. It doesn't feel as strong as the label looks but maybe that's just my increasing tolerance to stimulants. Although some pre workouts don't feel as strong but you get home and start shaking and just feel off. It's not me dosing too soon either because it's happened even after some of my marathon workouts.

A good prewrokout that can hit me post workout is Gaspari SP250. That really feels strong to me especially if you dose 1.5 scoops. I recommend that for guys who want a big mental boost. But sometimes I would be walking home from the gym and it would hit me hard and I would start sweating and my hands shaking etc.


----------



## Elvia1023

Today I had a large latte from Starbucks and 1 scoop of Pump Juice Extreme and had an amazing workout. It was legs so I needed the extra energy and I pushed it hard. I am really sore now so I can tell when I wake up I will be bad 

I may have a short break from the pre workouts just to give my body a rest from all the caffeine. I am thinking about 2 weeks. I will bring back DMAA tabs next time I visit the UK at the end of the month. So I can resume my Pump Juice with 1 tab of DMAA and see how that feels


----------



## Elvia1023

I have a 2 serving sample called Warrior Rage. I just looked it up and it has 250mg caffeine per serving. Good job I did look it up as I was going to have the whole thing pre workout today. Usually that would be fine but I haven't used a pre workout for about a week so it will hit me hard. I will try 1 serving and take the other serving intra training.


----------



## Elvia1023

I opened the Warrior Rage sachet and it had hardened up so it was pain getting it all in my shaker. I started drinking it with the thought I would drink the last part during training. But as I dropped some I just drank it all pre workout. It was crap... barely noticed anything. I did sweat a lot and my heart rate shot up but that was about it. I wouldn't bother with it. I noticed on the website they call it the strongest pre workout ever


----------



## Elvia1023

I am gonna try my DMAA for the first time now. I used to be sensitive to stimulants so I stayed away from all the old strong pre workouts (Jack3d etc). So this should be fun  I will report back later. I will mix 2 scoops of My Proteins aminos (contains 300mg caffeine) for intra training if I need it. I will be using 50mg DMAA (1 tab) from the start.


----------



## Elvia1023

I had a great training session but a little disappointed. I took the tab with some of my amino drink. About 15 mins later I walked to the gym and on the way it hit me hard. I felt really focused, stimulated and well great and thought I was onto a winner. But the feeling was very short lived... maybe 20 mins tops. Combined with a good pre workout these could be great but not as strong as I expected it to be. I will experiment with them more over the next few weeks.


----------



## Elvia1023

Yesterday I trained chest and back and about 15mins pre workout I tried 1 tab of DMAA and 1 scoop of GAT's PMP and that was a great combo. I wish I had more time in the gym as I got there with an hour to go but ended up having a great workout. 

Today is calves, rear delts, arms and cardio and I am gonna try 1 tab of DMAA with 1 scoop of Pump Juice Extreme


----------



## Elvia1023

I think I have found a winner with 75mg DMAA pre workout. I get great focus and energy at this dose. No bad side effects either. I may even stop the caffeine pre workouts for the next month. For the last few days I have been using 2 scoops of aminos intra workout (contains 300mg caffeine) but I may just swop over to my regular aminos from today.


----------



## Elvia1023

It's weird as I have been getting a great response to Lee Lebrada's Super Charge Xtreme recently. It must be due to my restricted diet and my body being more in need of the boost pre workouts bring. I am also having minimal caffeine through most days just my pre workout. I sometimes have 1 nespresso in the evening but probably only 3 in the last week. So my pre workout is always the first stimulant I have every day now. In the past I would have a nespresso in the morning but Ihave purposely stopped. I also plan to have a 3 week break from all pre workouts in the near future too.

Nothing is spectacular about the product but overall it perfoms well in every area so I have used it 2 days running now. I also plan to use it 2moro before hams and back too. As I mentioned in the past on paper it looked good but never really performed like I expected but at least it wasn't a waste like I originally thought.


----------



## Elvia1023

Soley for this thread and experimental purposes I have many new preworkout powders on their way to me


----------



## c7469616

//////


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## nhunghuounga

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## Elvia1023

On the way to the gym today I stopped at the post office as I had a slip due to missing a parcel. It was one of my supplement orders so I was made up. I already had mixed 1 scoop of pre jym in a shaker and taken it with me plus I had 1 nespresso before leaving my apartment. The pre workouts in the order included the Curse by Cobra Labs, NOO Pump by MAN Sports and Full as Fuck by 5% nutrition. 2 of those products are stimulant free. 

I decided to add 1 scoop of full as fuck into my shaker cup of pre jym. The combo tasted good so I imagine the wildberry tastes decent but I will have to try it alone to fully know. My energy was low in the gym so maybe thats due to lack of sleep, my restricted diet or too much caffeine or everything combined. But the pumps were great so the product is off to a good start. On paper it sounds great and stacked with pre gym that is 10g's of citrulline malate so no surprise the pumps were fantastic.

The NOO Pump sounds very interesting and I will have to try it alone to gauge it's effectiveness. I have heard it's best stacked with a stimulant but I bought it because it has none. I figured it could be ideal for when I have a break from stimulants. It still has ingredients added to give you mental focus so hopefully they have enough of an effect to push me through intense training sessions when I am going through caffeine withdrawal 

The Curse I know is a great product and I am excited to try it again. I was a bit annoyed they sent me the wrong flavour but nothing major. I much prefer the green apple flavour.

Now I don't really know what to start with  I am thinking 2 scoops of the Curse 2moro before back training. I don't like taking great pump products before back due to past injuries (strained muscles due to added pumps). Then I will likely try the NOO PUMP on Sunday. Next week I will start combining them but first I need to know just how good the 2 new ones are when used alone.

To add to things I have another 3 brand new pre workouts on their way to me


----------



## Elvia1023

I am really liking 2 scoops of the Curse and 1 scoop of Full as Fuck. So much that I don't feel like trying anything else for now. That combo gives you a bit of everything. Nothing is dosed too high and you get a great energy boost and pumps.

I will post their ingredient lists. As many know The Curse on paper looks pretty crap but in practice it's a great overall pre workout. I use 2 scoops so multiple the amounts by 2.






Plus I add 1 scoop (serving) of Full as Fuck which is listed below...


----------



## Elvia1023

I have taken a lot of pre workouts recently but I am loving 2 scoops of The Curse and 1 scoop of Full as Fuck. I had it on a fairly empty stomach and it was too much at first but after 15 mins that passed and I felt amazing and still do long after my workout. None stop energy, focus, great pumps and absolutely no crash. This combo definitely has me in a good place. Full as fuck takes a good 45 mins to come into effect so it's best dosed earlier and have your stimulant based pre workout (if you are using one) closer to your training session. I trained for longer today so just had both together but for 1 hour sessions definitely split them up. 

Full as fuck for me gives amazing pumps and vascularity but it doesn't do what it is called in a sense. The label is amazing and it's full of many effective ingredients but it's Glycerol dose is far too low. If it were higher the fullness would definitely be there. Most of the other ingredients are clinically dosed or even over dosed it's just lacking in that one area.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have 3 more pre workouts on the way but I don't want to change my current set up. I had forgotten how amazing the Curse really is. Just great clean energy and no crash at all. The full as fuck is giving me some incredible pumps. It really takes time to come into effect so dose it early. I was rushing today and had it too late but I finished my workout with calves and the pump/burn was insane but felt amazing. My calves felt about 2 inches bigger after a few sets


----------



## Elvia1023

Tonight I used 1 scoop of Savage Roar and 1 scoop of Gamma Ray and I was flying. I had an hour to train and probably fit in about 2 hours worth of training in that 1 hour  Plus I felt amazing after the gym... well amazing but tired


----------



## Elvia1023

I gave some away but at the moment my pre workouts înclude...

Dynamik Muscle's Savage Roar
Dynamik Muscle's GammaRay
Run Everything Labs EWP
Cobra Labs The Curse
5% Nutrition Full as Fuck
Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped
Muscle Research Pump Juice Extreme
Man Sports NOO Pump
Lee Lebrada's Supercharged Xtreme 4.0
Kaged Muscle's Pre Kaged
JYM Pre Jym
GAT's PMP

I am not getting anymore for at least 4 weeks


----------



## MightyJohn

I must say I like redline powder/10g glutamine or PRE from Nutribio


----------



## Sully

Elvia1023 said:


> I gave some away but at the moment my pre workouts înclude...
> 
> Dynamik Muscle's Savage Roar
> Dynamik Muscle's GammaRay
> Run Everything Labs EWP
> Cobra Labs The Curse
> 5% Nutrition Full as Fuck
> Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped
> Muscle Research Pump Juice Extreme
> Man Sports NOO Pump
> Lee Lebrada's Supercharged Xtreme 4.0
> Kaged Muscle's Pre Kaged
> JYM Pre Jym
> GAT's PMP
> 
> I am not getting anymore for at least 4 weeks



Jesus, Elvia. You've got more money invested in preworkout than I've got invested in supplements total this whole year! I quit trying other pre's once I started using PreJym. For me, it's by far the best preworkout I've ever used. I just wish he's make it in a caffeine free formula. I try to avoid stims as much as possible.


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## Elvia1023

Lil' Sully said:


> Jesus, Elvia. You've got more money invested in preworkout than I've got invested in supplements total this whole year! I quit trying other pre's once I started using PreJym. For me, it's by far the best preworkout I've ever used. I just wish he's make it in a caffeine free formula. I try to avoid stims as much as possible.



Soon my amino acids will have their own cupboard too  Yes PRE GYM is a great pre workout... one of the best. It is probably the most complete pre workout out today.. Although sometimes I may want a little more kick or other times less so that's why I like to have a few to choose from. Supplements don't cost me too much but sure they can easily add up.


----------



## Richard King

well Im running small dose of d-bol with Nolvadex


----------



## Richard King

how did it make effect?


----------



## Phoenixk2

Dust Extreme from Blackstone Labs....dmaa and noopep in there


----------



## Elvia1023

I had a 1 week break in the middle from pre workouts but for the last 4 weeks I have been rotating Carnage Roar with EWP with a fullness product. Today for a change I decided to do 2 scoops of the Curse. It definitely hit me harder and walking to the gym I literally felt incredible. The energy stayed with me and overall it's a great pre workout. I think I have gone through 3-4 tubs over the last 2 years so you know it must be good. I don't think I have reordered another pre workout in the last 2 hours apart from that. But it doesn't given me the added focus the others do. 

The Curse is so versatile but I would probably rate the 2 others above it for overall results. Although I didn't add in pump product to the Curse like I do the others. But for overall feel in the gym in regards to energy and focus I do rate the others slightly higher. You can't go wrong with all 3 of them though.


----------



## Elvia1023

Tonight I done just over 1 scoop of Savage Roar and 1 scoop of Gamma Ray and it felt great. It hit me just getting in the gym and my only thought was lift as heavy as humanly possible... great workout


----------



## Elvia1023

Tonight I trained legs and I felt like taking something strong as I wasn't feeling my usual motivation so I done 1 scoop of Cannibal Ferox Amped with 1 scoop of Gamma Ray. I haven't used it for awhile and thought I would be wired but to my surprise it didn't hit me hard at all. I still had a great training session and pushed it hard. One thing I have noticed is I feel so much hotter even 4 hours after training. The pump was incredible too but no surprise as both combined give the clinical 6g dose of citrulline malate amongst many other things. Back to Savage Roar 2moro


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## Elvia1023

Today I used 2 scoops of the Curse and 1 scoop of full as fuck. I drank it on the way to the gym and just as I walked inside my whole body was tingling from the beta alanine  I trained chest and shoulders and didn't stop for an hour. Set after set and just constant energy and feeling great.

I am using pre workouts every training day now but I am also having no other caffeine (apart from the odd tea) so even with the high usage they are hitting me hard everytime. It would be different if I was having coffee everyday but I am purposely avoiding stimulants apart from my pre workouts.

Full as Fuck has to be my best one for simply looking better. I have taken it on and off for over 6 weeks (rough guess) with various other pre workouts and notice it everytime. Sure certain stimulant based pre workouts will only add to the look due to their nitric oxide expanders and other useful ingredients. But I definitely see a difference when full as fuck is in the mix. I am always super vascular and pumped post workout after using full as fuck. I like it so much I will definitely order it again and that is rare for me. 

If you ever want to look your best then synthetine, tadalafil and full as fuck is a sure way to have you looking pumped and vascular.


----------



## squatster

Great post man
Great reading


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## Elvia1023

squatster said:


> Great post man
> Great reading



Thanks matey. Are you using any pre workouts yourself?

I am using them most days but forget to post at times.

Yesterday I used 3/4 scoop of Savage Roar and 1 scoop of the Curse and that was an amazing combo. Lots of energy and a great overall feeling. I trained back and really pushed the intensity.

Today was 1 scoop on Savage Roar and 1 scoop of Gamma Ray and as always great energy, focus, well being, pumps and fullness


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## Elvia1023

How are people getting on with their pre workouts? Any good ones over the last 2 months? Any new ones you have tried that have just come out?

I was just using my various powders I have had awhile. I did go away so had a break and carried that on when I first come back. Although I will admit the break didn't last as long as I wanted. Last night I wanted to train but was feeling drained so thought I would use some pre workout. EWP was great when I first used it but as mentioned in the past it's effectiveness went down. Others I have are great all of the time. As a result of the 3 week break I decided to try 1.5 scoops of EWP and it was amazing. Great energy, focus and well being and it made a massive difference.

Customs have messed up my bb.com order and they have sent it back to the UK. Very annoyed as I ordered over 1 month ago  In my order I had some new pre workouts to try out but I guess they will have to wait. I may order from somewhere else tonight as I want to try some new ones. Although I am curious about any new ones you guys have used before I order. Thanks


----------



## Elvia1023

I should receive an order from muscleandstrength very soon. I ordered loads of stuff  So some new pre workout reviews can start. In the next few days I will have...

Nutrex Hemo-Rage Under Ground - 30 Servings Peach Pineapple 	
Ronnie Coleman Yeah Buddy - 30 Servings Sour Berry 	 	
ProSupps Mr. Hyde Zero - 30 Servings Fruit Punch 	
RedCon1 Total War - 30 Servings Blue Raspberry


----------



## Elvia1023

Which one shall I try first? Gonna train back in about an hour. They sent me a sample of USN's 3XT-PUMP which contains 400mg caffeine. Maybe I will try that as it's mainly stimulant based so not sure why they have pump in the name. I don't like taking very effective pump products when training back due to my lower back tightening up.


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## psych

cannibal ferox preworkout....that shit is intense as fuck! It's by chaos and pain.


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## Elvia1023

psych said:


> cannibal ferox preworkout....that shit is intense as fuck! It's by chaos and pain.



Yes it's a great pre workout. I used the older version with DMAA and that was good. I still have it in my cupboard. I remember working all night but I really wanted to go the gym in the morning. I double scooped it. I can remember standing there waiting for the bus and it just hit me like a brick wall. It almost reminded me of my old days when I used to party  I have never been so wired in my life!


----------



## Elvia1023

Review time

USN 3XT Pump Pre workout Lemon and Lime flavour- The ingredient list is very basic and mainly caffeine, yohimbe and theacrine. This was a sample sachet so 1 scoop so I even licked the sachet to make sure I got the full dose  I just looked and it gets good reviews online and I can see why. Firstly this is one of the worst tasting pre workouts I have ever had. To me that was a good sign as I figured it should be strong. 

Great energy but that's it. Nothing fantastic and you could get a similar effect with a few caffeine pills. To me this felt nice but I can tell for someone sensitive to stimulants this may be too much. It has 400mg caffeine and 50mg teacrine to give an indication. I just went online to recheck the ingredients and I noticed a 3 star review. It was a guy who said he is only 170 pounds and it was too strong and he couldn't stop shaking after using it. Overall a good product but I wouldn't recommend guys go out and buy it.

Not pre workouts but I may as why review whilst I am here...

Oh Yeah Almond Fudge Brownie- I just ordered these for a nice snack. They were out of most flavours but these sounded fairly nice. Not great macros and as a result they taste amazing  Most protein bars have that well protein powder taste which isn't great. Most bars are also fairly hard and have a chewy rubber like texture. This is just like a chocolate bar you would buy in any store. Great taste and texture and an enjoyable snack. Not the greatest macros but if you are not dieting for competition they are ok. 14g protein, 18g carbs, 9g fat (0g trans fats).

Muscletech Amino Build Next Gen White Raspberry flavour- You have to laugh at the "shown to boost strength by 40%" on the label  I just like having a nice drink whilst training and if it contains aminos then a bonus. I go through a lot of amino products. There is not too much to write here other than the ingredient panel looks decent. The taste is very different and really nice. I had 3 scoops in a large bottle of water and drank that whilst training. It contains some electrolytes such as coconut water, watermelon juice and sodium chloride so a nice little touch but you find that in most amino products these days.

I will be using synthepure for 2 fruit smoothies per day and that is always my main protein. But I like to use flavoured whey in my oats of a morning. I am looking forward to trying Mutant's Isosurge Coconut Cream flavour and Dynamik's Prey in Chocolate cheesecake flavour. 

My next pre workout review will likely be on RC's Yeah Buddy


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## Elvia1023

I couldn't sleep last night at all. I did get up quite late yesterday but it was 100% the USN 3XT Pump product. I took it about 9pm and was literally sat up at 6am wide awake. I tried to go to bed but was lying there over an hour and couldn't sleep. So I feel rough now as well as full of cold. I have been training eod but I think I may go tonight and hit calves and shoulders then spend about 30 mins in the sauna. If I do go the gym it will be 1 scoop of Yeah Buddy to try next


----------



## Elvia1023

I haven't been well recently but still trained twice. I came off all hormones recently so that probably hasn't helped my immune system and general recovery. Anyway on Friday I trained calves and shoulders. On Sat I was in bed all day and tonight I trained legs. I used Ronnie Coleman's Yeah Buddy both times.

After training the first time on it I was going to write I need another day to access it properly. Reason being I wasn't well but super hyped up for the gym anyway and that just added to things. Tonight was more of the same but gave me a better undertstanding of the product. 

Going on it's ingredients I expected the energy factor to stand out a lot more than pumps. It's main pump ingredients are only 1g citrulline and 500mg agmatine sulfate. However they must be properly dosed and from a good source as the pump is great on it. The first night I had a lot of honey pre training but tonight didn't eat much so a better circumstance to judge and it was great. 

Yeah Buddy is definitely more geared towards the stimulant factor but it's a nice clean and sustained energy. I have a high tolerance to stimulants so it doesn't feel strong to me but it's apparant. It contains a patented time released caffeine and it definitely stays with you. I took it over 6 hours ago and I definitely still feel it's effects. Therefore, this product is best taken at least 6 hours before bed but for the slow metabolizers of caffeine that could be even double to be safe. All in all a very good product.

My plan was to use each pre workout for 1 week at a time to properly gauge their effectiveness but I think I will try a new one next time I train  HYDE is so popular and weirdly I have never used it but now I have their brand new one so I will try that. It's exactly the same as the old formula but it contains no artificial sweetners, colours or flavours.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have used 1 scoop of HYDE pre workout training chest and tri-ceps on Tues and tonight training back. As people know I have a high tolerance to stimulants so my response could be different to many. For me it simply felt great... no anxiety, jitters or ill feeling. The energy feels smooth and long lasting. The pumps are great with HYDE too. All in all a great pre workout. I am sure if someone new to pre workouts took it they could find it too much but for me it was smooth sailing. I am using the version without artificial sweetners and flavourings so the taste isn't great but not too bad.

Before using HYDE I used RC's Yeah Buddy and interestingly they are very similar in effect. In fact there is not too much difference between both of them at all. Looking at their ingredient panels this should be no surprise as they are very similar. Each have around the same caffeine content and that is made up of both short and long released forms. They each have similar amounts of beta alanine, citrulline malate and agmatine sulfate. They also both use similar amounts of Choline Bitartrate and both include other energy/focus ingredients. I definitely recommend both to everyone. 

It's hard to score them out of 10 so far as I am sure if I used either after say a 1 month break the response would be much more dramatic. Although they are both a safe 9/10... two of the best I have used.

I forgot to mention about the flavour of Yeah Buddy the other day. I ordered the sour berry flavour and it's not nice at all and I just seen online that taste gets scored bad. I figured they added that sour flavour to try and mask the bitterness (they failed). Although perhaps the other flavours are much better but it's not important to me as pre workouts are small.

Incidentally I just noticed there is a HYDE v3 that looks really good but I am in no rush to try it. I may go back to Yeah buddy next training day or I may try the Nutrex Underground preworkout


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been busy and tried quite a few different products over the last week or so.

Firstly I did try the Nutrex Underground pre workout the day after my last review. Nothing spectular but it did feel really good and gave me a big boost in energy with no crash afterwards. I haven't tried it since but will so today as I am training back. As I have mentioned in the past I prefer to take a preworkout that won't give me great pumps when training back as it can sometimes make my lower back extra sensitive. I will know more after I use it again but thinking about a 7/10 after the first use.

One day I also tried one of my fav combos of Savage Roar and Full as Fuck and it always performs... good energy, focus and pumps.

I have to say I am loving Yeah Buddy by Ronnie Coleman. I used it twice last week and it gives great focus, energy and even pumps. 

HYDE is very similar to Yeah Buddy but last time I used it I felt out of breath all session. I felt decent but was struggling for breath the whole way through. So far I definitely prefer Yeah Buddy to it. I will need to experiment more with both products though.

I might as well mention some of the other things I have used recently...

Ronnie Coleman Amino Tone (Cherry Limeande)- not much to say as it's just an amono product but it tastes great and I am enjoying it. It's a BCAA product but with some other useful ingredients added to it.

Dynamik Prey Whey (Chocolate cheesecake)- tastes amazing in my oats and no major bloating.

ProSupps PS Whey (Campfire Marshmallow)- tastes really nice and tried it in my oats one day and it was very good (nowhere as good as chocolate though).

Universal Carbo Plus (unflavoured)- I have had this for awhile but just starting using it. Only 1-2 scoops (17-34g carbs) intra training. It's great so far. Texture like sugar and mixes easily but is not very sweet. No bloating at all so far with the smaller amounts added into my intra shake.


----------



## Elvia1023

I just had an amazing back/biceps/abs workout that lasted about 2 hours. I am throwing in a few longer sessions just to burn more calories but will be going black to shorter ones very soon. I used 1 scoop of Nutrex's Underground Black and it felt great. It gives a decent pump as well as great energy. Although I was getting very tired the final 30 mins of training. I am off all hormones so that is a major factor in regards to my energy levels and stamina so I guess I can't expect a miracle from a pre workout powder. All in all a very good product. After using it again I will definitely stick with that 7/10 rating.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been rotating brands a lot recently. I started using kaged muscle again. It's like PRE JYM on paper but in reality not as good. But it's what you would call a complete pre workout that should add to your physique over time (aminos and anti-oxidants etc added). It's a good product but too mild for me stimulant wise. I would rate it at 7/10 but it's not worth the added cost. Well if you don't consume any aminos around training it would be useful adding in a pre workout like it. But for me I use aminos anyway so it's completely not needed for me.

Last night I used Hemo Rage Underground as I was training back and I didn't want the pump to be too intense (lower and upper back issues). It's a good product (7/10) as I have previously mentioned but it does stay with you a long time. I had sustained energy through training but no big hit so it doesn't feel really strong. But I was wired post workout and could not sleep at all even 8 hours later. I should add I did use 1.5 scoops and it's a 1 scoop formula 

Everytime I go in my cupboard to pick I am always drawn towards Ronnie Coleman's Yeah Buddy. Whenever I want the best performing I go with that and it always delivers. Definitely worth trying if you are unsure what pne to get next.

I have 2 pre workouts I am saving until the new year to experiment with. Redcon's Total War and Musclerage's Limitless. Both of these look great so hopefully they perform well.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been experimenting with Musclerage's Limitless and Blackstone Labs Dust v2. I also have an unopened tub of Total War by Redcon1 which on paper looks amazing.

I received loads of Dust v2 samples so I can try out all the different flavours. The red ice and blue sky both taste really good. I was expecting it to be stronger but I was not disappointed. From what I had heard I thought it would be more of a hit you in the face type of energy. For me it was just a nice flow and nothing too strong. Moreover, I tried this after a 2 week break from pre workouts so I was definitely more sensitive to it's effects. The pump from this product is great. I have only used it twice but so far I will give it a 7.5/10. I still have the cotton candy flavour to try and will do soon. 

Muscle Rage's Limitless- I bought the cotton candy flavour and it's one of the nicest tasting pre workouts I have ever had. I think I have used it 4 times so far and this stuff is great. Nice clean energy with no crash afterwards. It would be better for me if it had more of a kick to it but that is the stimulant junkie in me wanting that. I have been using 1.25 scoops the last 2 workouts and that feels really good. I will up to 1.5 scoops (my max) soon and see how that treats me.

I did start using MK-677 recently so that has only added to fullness and pumps. But it's safe to say Limitless is amazing for pumps and one of the best I have ever used in that regard. If I had to score it probably an 8 or 8.5. I will experiment with it more and may be that score will change. It gives you everything so I definitely recommend this one. Here is the ingredient panel...


----------



## cybrsage

As I get older, I am finding that Caffeine no longer loves me as much as I still love it.  On that end, a host of preworkouts no longer are an option to me.  I just started using APS Mesomorph.  It does a great job of giving me a burst of energy, alertness, and get-er-done-ness without the caffeine problems.  It also tastes great in grape.  Not sure how good of a preworkout it is from a "what is in it" standpoint, though.  That is not my strong suit.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been meaning to post in this thread for awhile. I will update what I have been up to later. I want to mention that Mesomorph is one of the highest ranked pre workouts so you are not alone. I have this thread on a few forums and many experienced pre workout users mention Mesomorph as one of the best. In fact apart from ProSupps HYDE it's probably the highest ranked from forum posters I have seen. Although I still haven't used it but plan to.  



cybrsage said:


> As I get older, I am finding that Caffeine no longer loves me as much as I still love it.  On that end, a host of preworkouts no longer are an option to me.  I just started using APS Mesomorph.  It does a great job of giving me a burst of energy, alertness, and get-er-done-ness without the caffeine problems.  It also tastes great in grape.  Not sure how good of a preworkout it is from a "what is in it" standpoint, though.  That is not my strong suit.


----------



## formula1069

redneck catfish Cooley Today has been such a good day - YouTube







Jump to about 1:20 on Video 
LOL


----------



## Elvia1023

I can't believe I left this thread for so long. I have been really busy but been experimenting as usual. I was getting super tired post training and I thought it may be due to crashing from pre workouts. So I started training without them a few times and every time I was the same. I concluded it must solely be down to my MK-677 usage and simply training hard.

I started Redcon1's Total War and it definitely delivers. I have the blue raspberry flavour. It has the standard bitter taste of most pre workouts but isn't bad. It delivers in all areas so gives great energy and pumps without any bad crash afterwards. I have used it about 5 times now and would give it a 8/10.

Occasionally I go back and use certain products I really enjoyed. One of those is Ronnie Coleman's Yeah Buddy. Something that really makes it stand out is the initial euphoric feeling it brings. It also delivered in all areas and overall I find it to be a better product than Total War. I would probably give it a 9/10. This could be too strong for guys sensitive to stimulants so always start with 1/2 scoop to access your tolerance. It is very similar to HYDE but I rate it slightly better (HYDE 8.5/10).

Now my favourite one in recent months I keep going back to is Musclerage's Limitless. It provides amazing pumps and energy and just an overall sense of well being. It even tastes nice but that is not important to me. I give it a 9.5/10.

I have also started using humalog and synthetine pre workout and both of these are fantastic. My max doses will be 6-8IU humalog and 3ml synthetine and with that combo I get great pumps, vascularity and fullness.


----------



## Elvia1023

Someone recently asked me my top 5 so I will post it here too. It's hard for me to give a top 5 because I used some when I was more sensitive to stimulants so perhaps they wouldn't have the same impact. But here it is...

1. GSN's NitroNOX Pro- Probably the best pre workout I have ever taken. This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to everyone. It's also the worst tasting pre workout ever 

2. Musclemeds NO BULL- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feel very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks or so.

3. Dynamik's Savage Roar- Great product. Great energy, focus and pumps. 

4. PRE JYM- What I call a complete pre workout. Has everything in it including aminos. Solid pre workout in every sense.

5. Musclerage Limitless- Great pumps and energy and sense of well being.

Worth mentioning...

Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme. This only has 80mg caffeine per scoop and is more a pump one. Incredible pumps and feel with a nice boost in energy. 2 scoops of this will give you ridiculous pumps and great energy. Great for trhe stimulant sensitive peopel out there.

Cobra Labs The Curse... fantastic product and very cheap. 1 scoop is good and 2 scoops are great. A very solid but basic product that outperforms it's label.

Ronnie Coleman's Yeah Buddy- I really liked this. Again great pumps and energy. This gives me a euphoric feeling about 10 mins post dosing which is rare for me.


I ordered from Iherb yesterday and they are due to be delivered 2moro. Mainly just health supplements and weightgainers. They don't have many pre workouts but I noticed they have Musclemed's NO Bull so I added it. I am curious how it treats me now as it was great in the past. That contains Adenosine 5'-triphosphate which gives ridiculous pumps. I also recall it being very strong stimulant wise so curious how I am with it now. Depending what time it comes I should use it 2moro so will update how it goes.


----------



## Elvia1023

It come so gonna use it before training back. Time to put on 8.8 pounds of muscle and get 147% stronger


----------



## Elvia1023

I tried NO Bull before but I need to try it again to judge it better. I was a bit  disappointed but I took it too late. Over the years I have learnt I am best taking nearly every pre workout about 10-15 mins before training even if it states 30 mins like many do. They always kick in very fast for me. 

When training back I sometimes like to start with abs like I did today. In the past I don't like the feeling of my pre workout kicking fully in when doing abs. When doing abs before back I like to do them very slowly and controlled and I don't want to be coming up on pre workout. So I drank it literally walking into the gym and in the changing room. This took much longer to kick in than expected so I will repeat 2moro and do it about 20mins pre training. 

The pump I got at the end when training bi-ceps was amazing and I could barely shower properly afterwards. Plus I felt a surge of energy at the end of training. All in all very good but I will know more over the next few days.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been using around 1 scoop of Musclemed's NO Bull pre workout recently and it's good but not as good as in the past. I read they changed the formula but I am unsure of that. I took just over 1 scoop tonight and felt that a lot... I think that is my sweet spot. 

So far I would probably say 1 scoop is a 8/10 and 1.25 scoops closer to a 9/10. I haven't used much creatine recently so I like the fact it contains 3 different forms. Although I am unsure of the total dose of creatine as it doesn't list it (it will be fairly high though). I should add though without fail I need to go the toilet as soon as I get the gym on this one


----------



## Elvia1023

So much to update I will have to do it in stages. I was rotating all my pre workouts for approx 1 month. Although I most often found myself going with Redcon1's Total War. It's a great overall pre workout that gives great pumps, energy and sense of well being with no negative side effects. It definitely helped me push the intensity. I also used Musclemed's NO Bull a lot too. As mentioned above I liked the fact that contained creatine (I hadn't used it in ages) so aided in strength endurance. Although I recently ordered creatine alone so can dose it how I please pre/intra/post workout now. I ordered a lot of supplements but here are the new pre workouts I decided to get...







First I tried the sample NO-XPLODE XE Edge from BSN. It was a 1 serving sample and felt great. It contains a lot of useful ingredietns. Whilst some may not be dosed high enough the final effect is a very good one. It performs in all areas and I felt great from it. The taste was fine not that it matters. All in all about 8.5/10. I would buy this to experiment with higher dosing but 1 serving contains 325mg caffeine so a nice dose.

I received a free goodie bag with the Scivation Quake product. It includes a 42oz blender bottle so I was made up. On paper Quake sounds incredible but I have yet to try it. It is not pictured but I also have a 7 serving Dymatize MPACT Energy Ignitor to try out too.


----------



## heavy hitter

I don't think it gets much better than 10iu insulin with some carbs, 6 grams of citrulline,200 mgs of caffeine, 20mgs of Cialis. And if you have it...throw in 50 or so mgs of test base. Helluva preworkout


----------



## Elvia1023

heavy hitter said:


> I don't think it gets much better than 10iu insulin with some carbs, 6 grams of citrulline,200 mgs of caffeine, 20mgs of Cialis. And if you have it...throw in 50 or so mgs of test base. Helluva preworkout



Definitely hard to beat that combination. I think cialis added to a good pre workout and you are on to a winner. Then add slin and synthetine with an intra shake and you are getting optimal performance and results


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## Elvia1023

Out of my new preworkouts the one that looks the best is definitely Quake 10.0. Although I have yet to try it but I will do fairly soon. It's funny because this brings me onto probably the worst ingredient profile... Hyphy Mud 2.0. It contains...






Granted it is still more of a mental product but still 3.82g total per serving. On paper that is one of the worst you could ever find. If I had to guess I would say about 1.5-2g beta alanine due to feel. So you are talking approx 2g's from the rest so they are all underdosed by large amounts (cm, taurine, agmatine sulfate etc). But how does it actually perform... I love it  I have used it about 6 times so far and it's great for upping the intensity in the gym. The first time I used it I thought no wonder he acts so mental all the time in his videos. 

Hyphy Mud 2.0 tastes fine (tropical fruit), gives good pumps but the main thing is the focus and energy. It is more fast acting so you sometimes feel it drop off. Moreover as I have used it most of the week the effect do lower so I recommend frequent breaks when using this one. Perhaps rotating it and just using it on the days you want a big mental boost (legs etc). It states on the front to use 1 scoop max and on the back 1-2 scoops. So far I am up to about 1.5 scoops and I would rather have breaks then up it more as I can tell it contains a decent dose of caffeine/stimulants. Unfortunately I can't find specific amounts online so it's all guess work. I would rate it a 9/10.


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## Elvia1023

I just tried Universal's Shock Therapy. It states 1-2 scoops so I tried just over 1 1/2 scoops first time. I had the peach iced tea flavour which tastes really nice. In fact if you filled your shaker with water it would probably taste just like a regular peach iced tea. It's a weird one as I thought it was good but nothing that stood out too much. I didn't expect it to be great but I am a fan. Good pumps and energy but nothing too much. The main postive for it is I feel great on it and post workout I am feeling energetic. I am usually very tired post workout so that's a welcomed change. Plus I trained really hard so overall an 8/10 so far but I will try 2 scoops tomorrow. I think this would be great for the beginner to pre workouts and you can move up in dose through the days/weeks.


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## ThatSickRip

Havent read the whole thread, but have you used Redcon1's Total War yet? Im loving it myself


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## Elvia1023

ThatSickRip said:


> Havent read the whole thread, but have you used Redcon1's Total War yet? Im loving it myself



Yes I have and posted about it. I loved it too. I used it recently but gonna try my newer ones out now. There are a group of pre workouts I have that I consider very similar in performance and they include:

Savage Roar by Dynamik 
Ronnie Coleman's Yeah Buddy
Redcon1's Total War

Those 3 I have in my cupboard and I will go back to each one occasionally as they are all solid 9/10 rated to me. Musclemed's NO Bull is in that list too if you dose it at 1.5 scoops. Those 4 are some of the best I have ever used.


----------



## Elvia1023

Today I tried 2 scoops of Shock Therapy. Although my review is flawed due to MK-677. My energy levels are so low through the day I am going to open up the 20mg caps and half them. Usually I can still get in the zone for training and a pre workout definitely helps. Today I struggled getting ready but figured like the day before once I get in the gym I would be gtg. I struggled through my entire workout and my energy was very low. This is the first time it's happened whilst training so I am halving the caps as I can't be like that again in the gym. 

I will try 2 scoops again before the next time I train to judge it better. I could literally dose any pre workout when MK-677 has built up and nothing would help my energy so it's unfair to review the product in this circumstance.

After I am done with Shock Therapy I have Quake 10.0 to try out. As mentioned above the ingredient panel looks great to me. I am obviously looking at this as a 2 scoop formula. So anything with 6g citrulline malate and 350mg caffeine should be a winner if they are dosed accurately. Added to those you have some great ingredients such as 1.5g arginine nitrate, 1.5g l-carnitine l-tartrate and 3g l-tyrosine. Below is the full list...


----------



## ThatSickRip

Elvia1023 said:


> Yes I have and posted about it. I loved it too. I used it recently but gonna try my newer ones out now. There are a group of pre workouts I have that I consider very similar in performance and they include:
> 
> Savage Roar by Dynamik
> Ronnie Coleman's Yeah Buddy
> Redcon1's Total War
> 
> Those 3 I have in my cupboard and I will go back to each one occasionally as they are all solid 9/10 rated to me. Musclemed's NO Bull is in that list too if you dose it at 1.5 scoops. Those 4 are some of the best I have ever used.



Thanks for the insight man. Seen Savage Roar, but hadnt heard of Ronnies. And I agree on the solid 9/10 for Total War and its one of the best Ive used as well. I will have to try the others you mentioned. Thanks!


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## heavy hitter

Man I wish I had the cash flow to try all of these


----------



## ThatSickRip

heavy hitter said:


> Man I wish I had the cash flow to try all of these



If you watch Redcon1, they will have some pretty good deals pop up that you can take advantage of to get ahold of Total War.


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## Elvia1023

ThatSickRip said:


> If you watch Redcon1, they will have some pretty good deals pop up that you can take advantage of to get ahold of Total War.



You US guys are very lucky you can get most of them for next for nothing. I remember seeing Total War for buy 1 get 1 free on muscle and strength. It seems to have got back up in price though. You can still get very good products for very cheap prices. If I order them locally I pay double the price.


----------



## Elvia1023

I tried 2 scoops of Quake 10.0 the other day and I was disappointed. I had no caffeine that day or the day before either. Obviously the pumps were good but the energy and focus wasn't really there. But you can never judge a pre workout on 1 day as there are so many variables. I will try it again soon and hopefully it only gets better.

I haven't been able to train for about 4 days due to lower back issues. I trained earlier for the first time but still haven't recovered so I picked a pre workout that wouldn't give me great pumps (lower back). I went with 1 scoop of Nutrex's Hemo Rage Underground (Black Series) and it felt great. I learnt in the pass my sweet spot for this product is about 1.25-1.5 scoops but just used 1 today. Great energy and the pumps were better than expected too. Although I did train chest and arms which always get pumped up easily for me. It's definitely more a stimulant based product and I give it about a 8/10.


----------



## pjk1969

id like to try these preworkouts but ii end up getting blood pressure issues. well, i use caffeine ephedrine combo and it shoots my bp up around 170/100.
would this stuff be better to try or would it max my bp also?


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## Elvia1023

pjk1969 said:


> id like to try these preworkouts but ii end up getting blood pressure issues. well, i use caffeine ephedrine combo and it shoots my bp up around 170/100.
> would this stuff be better to try or would it max my bp also?



Any stimulant will likely increase blood pressure. Although you could use a pre workout with a sensible caffeine dosage and that should be fine. It will be much better than ephedrine/caffeine in regards to bp.


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## Elvia1023

I tried Quake 10.0 again yesterday and again nothing outstanding. Granted I was rushing and took it on a fairly full stomach. Next time I will try it on a fairly empty stomach as that can make a big difference in regards to stimulants and pump ingredients.

Today I was in 2 minds whether or not to go the gym and decided last minute to go. I wanted more of a stimulant based product and not something to pump me up too much so I took 2 scoops of Hyphy Mud 2.0. I was literally flying  This stuff is like rocket fuel. The focus and energy is fantastic and it really helped push me through my high rep leg training as I was feeling tired before using. You know those days you leave the gym feeling made up you ended up going. It's definitely my favourite pre workout at the moment.


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## Elvia1023

It's been out ages but I finally tried 5% Nutrition's 5150 today. I planned to order it ages ago but then I kept hearing it's not as good as you think and not that strong etc. My mate gave me 1 scoop to try which I kept in a container and used before. Taste is not important to be but it tastes really nice. I think I had the pomegranate flavour but not 100% sure on that. But for a pre workout the taste is 10/10.

I had it on a fairly empty stomach so it hit me hard. Fuck it's not that strong I was flying. I called my sister back on the way to the gym and I was finding it hard to concentrate talking to her  I got to the gym and was thinkign this is too much. But once I started training and focused it was great. But this is 100% not for the sensitive user.

I trained back and finished with some fast arms and had a great workout. After face pulls I done pull ups purposely due to the pump. If my arms get too pumped I struggle with pull ups. After them my forearms were so pumped I was struggling to grip the bar for seated rows and close grip pulldowns. So in many ways this could work too good in regards to pumps. 

After the gym I was full of energy but had no crash at all. I will definitely buy this to experiment more. So far I would say a 8.5-9/10.


----------



## Southernjuice

Vodka preferably Dripping Springs


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## Elvia1023

The other day I tried Grenade's .50 Caliber Pre-Workout for the 2nd time. It's fireball flavour and some will love this whilst others will hate. I don't mind it and it's the first time I have ever had a hot/chilli flavoured preworkout. It's profile is good and includes 4g pure l-citrulline, 2g beta-alanine (as Carnosyn), 50mcg huperzine a plus a 4 stage energy profile including 400mg caffeine from 3 forms and 60mg P-Synephrine. The energy and pumps are great with this product and it delivers in all areas. I would probably give it an 8.5/10.

The rest of the week I have mainly been using Hyphy Mud 2.0. It's definitely my current favourite pre workout. I have been mixing it with 1 scoop of Dynamik's Gamma Ray. GR contains no stimulants and is just a pump product so the combination is amazing. I might even try HM 2.0 and 5% Nutrition's Full as Fuck as that is much better than Gamma Ray for pumps. I will be ordering both of those again so can experiment with dosages of each. Pretty much 1 scoop of FAF is all you need and add that to 1-2 scoops of HM 2.0 and you should have a winning combo.

Today I will be swopping over to 2 scoops of Universal's Shock Therapy.


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## Elvia1023

I should have updated this thread more. I have experimented a lot recently so I may miss a few things. I want to start with 2 disappointing products. Firstly is The Quake by Scivation. On paper to me this sounded great but it does not deliver for me at all. I would give 2 scoops a 7/10 at most. I never even tried 1 scoop as it would have been a waste for me. My friend doesn't mind it but doesn't rate it either. This get great reviews all over so some may love it.

Next is Shock Therapy by Universal Nutrition. I never expected this to me amazing but I am a fan of the company so tried it out. Again it's pretty ordinary in every sense and I would give it a 6.5-7/10.

I used Grenade 0.50 calibre devastation again and that is a good product. Nothing spectuclar but it out performs the above 2 by a long way. I would now give it about 8/10.

As the above mentioned I really like 5%'s 5150. I need to use it more to fully judge but both times I felt great from it.

I bought BSN's no xplode 3.0 and have used it a few times. Good product and well worth a try. It does stay with me awhile though. I used it the other night quite late on and was well awake at 5:30am  I need to use this a few days running to know more but so far I would say about 8/10.

I have rotated the above products in but I am pretty much using Hyphy Mud 2.0 every time I go to the gym. My tub is nearly gone and I will be buying more which is rare for me. It feels great to me. The ingredient list is well poor but it gets me so amped up. I feel like a machine on it. 1.5 scoops and I have the most amazing workouts. I could feel like complete crap and struggling with HGH fatigue barely able to move. I take hyphy mud 2.0 and I am excited to get to the gym and full of energy wanting to break PR's  It's fairly short lived so I can sleep after it too. So even when I take it later on I am ok getting to sleep but it is strong so many may be different. I would give it a 9.5/10.


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## b-boy

1. I try to get in at least a gallon of water before I train
2. 1 cup of coffee with 2 tbls of chocolate LBA mixed in

This I have found most effective for me and I can use any pre workout supplement as I am sponsored by a supplement store.


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## Nightrider

I recently used Pianas Full as F*uck. I can't do stim pre workouts. It gave me decent pumps but nothing to write home about.


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## Elvia1023

Nightrider said:


> I recently used Pianas Full as F*uck. I can't do stim pre workouts. It gave me decent pumps but nothing to write home about.



With that one it's much better on a fairly empty stomach. So eat a fairly light meal approx 120-90 mins before training. Drink lots of water. Plus give that one time so have it at least 30 mins before training. It's a fantastic stimulant free pre workout but everyone responds differently. But those ingredients definitely work optimally under those guildlines. If you didn't do above please try it like that and see if there is a difference. Training arms is crazy on that stuff for me.


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## Elvia1023

I took Redcon1's Total War last night for a change. As I have mentioned in the past it's a great product and gives you a bit of everything. But when you rotate these products you realize their differences. This stays with me much longer so I couldn't sleep and was still up at 6am  Everyone processes caffeine differently but definitely take this 7 hours+ before going to bed.


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## Elvia1023

I used HYDE tonight and like last time I am not hugely impressed. Everyone reacts to preworkouts differently but most people seem to love HYDE. Perhaps it's because I have used so many pre workouts with similar doses. I know a lot of guys I have seen review it haven't used loads and HYDE is the strongest so it's sheer strength impressed them. Perhaps I just don't respond that well to it compared to others. I took 1 heaped scoop and didn't feel much but always get out of breath from it. It's still decent but I rate the likes of Savage Roar, Yeah Buddy and NO Bull above it. I would still give it an 8/10 though.


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## forever_twisted

I do not like preworkout shops that are pre made.I like to put my own together.Much cheaper and I know what I'm taking,not a Prop blend.

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk


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## Elvia1023

I was recently away and decided to buy a new preworkout from a shop. They didn't have a lot of choice and I ended up going with 5150. I have used it a few times in the past and it was good so I figured try a whole tub. I bought passionfruit flavour and it tastes great. I have also used the pomegranate flavour which is great too. Both flavours are some of the best tasting pre workouts I have ever used. 

It's a solid product but I know it gets mixed reviews. It's definitely not as strong as you would think it is after reading the label. It hits in fast and the sense of well being and the beta alanine tingles are noticeable within minutes. I feel great on it and it delivers in every sense. I have used it a few times now and it's effects definitely lower over time so I will start rotating in other products and use it on certain days. One of the positives is there is no crash for me at all but due to the various forms of caffeine it's effects last a long time. So anyone using this in the morning/afternoon will have a good supply of energy for the rest of the day. I give it an 8.5/10 and definitely recommend it.


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## RamboStallone

Is nutrex outlift still a good clinically dosed one or are there better options now? I'm looking for an all inclusive product with creatine, CM, taurine, etc, that I can just take once a day. Doesn't have to be a preworkout necessarily.


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## Elvia1023

RamboStallone said:


> Is nutrex outlift still a good clinically dosed one or are there better options now? I'm looking for an all inclusive product with creatine, CM, taurine, etc, that I can just take once a day. Doesn't have to be a preworkout necessarily.



They have Nutrex Outlift Amped now which looks great. I would recommend that or PRE JYM. Full as Fuck by 5% is a really good stimulant free product. I am rushing now as I go on holiday in 2 hours  We have to leave at 4am (flight at 6am) so no point in me sleeping. There are also a few good protein/weightgain powders that put the kitchen sink in such as Reflex's One Stop.


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## cybrsage

I have started using Vapor X5 Next Gen from Muscle Tech.  It has very little caffeine, which is good.  I am getting less and less able to handle caffeine as I age.


----------



## Sandpig

Waiting on Mike Arnold's new product.

He promises that it will have all the pump ingredients at clinical dosages.

I'm sure it will be pricy though.


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## Elvia1023

Sandpig said:


> Waiting on Mike Arnold's new product.
> 
> He promises that it will have all the pump ingredients at clinical dosages.
> 
> I'm sure it will be pricy though.



For pumps it doesn't need to be complicated. 6-8g citrulline malate and 15mg tadalafil with a good pre workout meal and lot's of water and the pumps would be more than enough. You could add the likes of glycerine and even 5iu humalog if you didn't want to be able to move your arms after a few sets.


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## Elvia1023

cybrsage said:


> I have started using Vapor X5 Next Gen from Muscle Tech.  It has very little caffeine, which is good.  I am getting less and less able to handle caffeine as I age.



Not really low caffeine imo. Looking at the doses I would do 2 scoops and think most would need to do the same for optimal results and that is 380mg caffeine which is very high.

Full as fuck is good and contains no caffeine. If you could get Matrix NO Pump Xtreme you would love it. 80mg caffeine per scoop and 2 scoops is incredible. I recommend you try and get that one if you can (sold in the UK). Nutrex Outlift do a stimulant free version too. For people who want a good boost but low caffeine if you get a stimulant free product I recommend a double espresso or 1 tab (50mg) of teacrine. Teacrine is a great product and if you have any pre workout but want an extra boost in energy try adding 50mg-100mg.


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## Sandpig

Elvia1023 said:


> For pumps it doesn't need to be complicated. 6-8g citrulline malate and 15mg tadalafil with a good pre workout meal and lot's of water and the pumps would be more than enough. You could add the likes of glycerine and even 5iu humalog if you didn't want to be able to move your arms after a few sets.


Well I do 5 mgs of tadalafil daily so it would be too much to bump up to 15 on workout days. My wife wouldn't be able to handle me on 15 anyway.

Also, I do 15 iu's or Novalin R pre.
Going to Walmart is easier than trying to find log.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Elvia1023

I just ordered Hyphy Mud 2.0 again so that should tell you something as I never usually reorder pre workouts. I also have some Animal Fury on the way that is very basic but looks good. I also got to pick a sample of another product but I forget the name but will review that too.

Recently I have been using 5150 and it's great. As mentioned earlier my tolerance builds up fairly quickly on it so I recommend short breaks or rotating with other products. I had just over 1 scoop before and the euphoria I feel from it especially about 10 mins post dosage is incredible. I couldn't feel happier and it helps me push the intensity in my workouts.

I will get another product (new to me) to review soon too. Anyone tried anything new recently?


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## Elvia1023

One thing I have learnt over the years of using pre workouts is they can have different effects at different times. So many variables on the day can effect results such as foods you just ate, stress and energy levels etc. But even over the span of months the other recent products you use can have an effect including the main factor that is your current caffeine/stimulant tolerance.

Over the last few days I have used 5% Nutrition's 5150, Redcon1's Total War and Nutrex Hemo Rage Underground. All 3 are good products with the first two listed both being great for me. They all have a slightly different effect energy wise too.

5150 hits me very fast and I can feel it within 5 mins. Sometimes I have dosed it and forgot something and left 5 mins later and it full blown hits me on the way to the gym. This one unlike the others also gives me an intense euphoric feeling after about 10 mins. Although a negative is after training I am always destroyed and struggle to walk home. So I guess you could state I crash but mentally I feel fine. 

Total War takes longer to come into effect. It's more sustained energy and overall is a great product. I still have energy post workout when walking home even if I have trained for 2 hours.

Nutrex Hemo Rage is not as good as the others but still a decent product. It's great energy wise but if it gave better pumps would be rated higher. Even on a fairly empty stomach it takes much longer to hit me. It's a smooth curve upwards in regards to energy and 30 mins post dosage is when I can really feel it. It's similar to Total War in the sense the energy stays with me until post workout.

5%'s 5150= 9/10
Total War= 9/10
HemoRage= 7.5/10

I must add my sweet spot iS about 1 1/3 scoops for the first 2 and 1.5 scoops for hemo rage. If I am using after a break from stimulants then 1 scoop is great.


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## TeknoViking

I cannot see myself every using another pre workout then Arc Reactor by Granite Supplements (John Meadows).

I add some more CM to it, about 6-8 grams and it is insane. I haven't felt that it has lost its potency in terms of energy at all. I also love all the ingredients in it. I swear like 10-15 after I take it I get a little highish feeling ha.


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## Elvia1023

Earlier I used my new tub of Hyphy Mud 2.0 watermelon and kiwi flavour. It tastes fine but not good. I love watermelon but nearly all supplements in watermelon never taste good... especially pre workouts. Although Hyphy done a fairly good job with their flavouring it's just the other stuff that gives it the bitter/bad taste and it's impossible to mask. I tried 1.5 scoops and no surprise it was amazing. I think I broke the world record in power walking to the gym  Great leg session and lot's of energy during and after even though I pushed the intensity. As usual I give it a 9/10.

The other day I tried 2 servings of MHP's Reckless in Blue Slushy flavour. The taste was fine so nothing exciting there. It's only the 2nd MHP product I have used as their last product (Trac Extreme NO) was probably the worst pre workout I have ever used. It gets decent reviews but I didn't feel a thing from 2 scoops so I never bothered using the brand again. Reckless is different and much better but still lacking. It gets great reviews about it's strength and it's ingredient profile is different so I was looking forward to trying it. Within 20 mins it was amazing and I felt a big high and couldn't be more pleased but that faded and considering I used 2 scoops it wasn't very impressive. I would give it a 7/10 so not bad but I imagine for me the normal serving of 1 scoop would be a waste of time.


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## Elvia1023

Tip for everyone don't take 1.5 scoops of Hyphy Mud 2.0 if you plan to sleep in the next 8 hours


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## Elvia1023

Tonight I tried Animal Fury. On paper it looks very basic but effective and it didn't disappoint. Although it was nothing spectacular. I think nearly everyone would love this product but guys wanting crazy energy maybe left wanting more. I can't really knock it as it contains everything you need in decent doses and 350mg caffeine per scoop is plenty for most. I took 1 scoop but hadn't left in 10 mins so decided to take a tiny bit more as it didn't hit me very hard. 

All in all a solid product and I would give it a 8/10 so far. Almost forgot I need to mention the taste on this one. I have green apple and it is the sweetest pre workout I have ever tried. I like that but many won't. Really artificial and strong apple taste but I liked it. Will taste better the more water you add but I don't like to use too much for my pre workouts.




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## Fitraver

What's up Elvia?! My go to has been pre jym for quite some time now. The only other line of supps I will use is magnum nutraceuticals. Pharm grade out of Cananda and top notch all around.


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## Elvia1023

Fitraver said:


> What's up Elvia?! My go to has been pre jym for quite some time now. The only other line of supps I will use is magnum nutraceuticals. Pharm grade out of Cananda and top notch all around.



Sorry about the late reply. PRE JYM is a great product and what I call a complete pre workout. Funny as you mention Magnum as I saw them years ago and wanted to order but couldn't from the particular site at the time. Their Quarttro powder looks fantastic. I have just checked out their site and their pre workout looks great too. They have 2 formulas, one in powder and the other in capsules. Their powdered pre workout contains Bacopa which is very unusual and the first I haver ever seen. I will be experimenting with bacopa over the next few weeks so it caught my eye. Thanks for posting.

The other day I tried Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha in cherry icy flavour. Truth be told I can't remember if I dosed 1 or 1 1/3 scoops so I need to use it a few more times to judge it better. So far it was good but nothing spectacular. The first 20 mins were great but it seemed to fade away quickly. The taste is good and you can't really go wrong with cherry flavour. I will use it a few more times to better judge it.

I also tried out one from the past in GAT'S PMP and as I stated in the past it's definitely better than I first though. I used 1.5 scoops of that and with that I get great energy and pumps. Definitely not one of the best but a decent product if you use the right dose for you. I would give it an 7.5-8/10.

The last 2 days I have used Hyphy Mud 2.0 in the new flavour I bought. That's definitely one of my top pre workouts of all time. For my next training day I will try the D-Stunner Alpha again.


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## Elvia1023

I took Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha for the 2nd time tonight before training back and bi-ceps. It tastes good and it performs well for me at 1 1/3 scoops. As I mentioned above nothing spectacular but it felt better than last time. The initial high is great but it fades away but still good sustained energy with no crash. Pumps are good but again nothing spectacular. Post workout I felt decent and now I feel great so no néeatives later on. All in all I give it a 7.5/10. I have been meaning to post a pic of my pre workouts and provide a full list with ratings so I will try and get that done tonight


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## Elvia1023

Firstly I regretted doing this as it took my ages (hours)  I have compiled a complete list of everything I have used during this thread including a rating and brief review. Please note my stimulant tolerance has changed during this thread so some products from the past may not have the same effect as they once did. The same could be said for recent products that may not have scored highly but perhaps earlier may have felt better to me. Although I like to keep small amounts of many powders so I can reuse in the future and see if they passed the test of time. Below are all the products from start to finish starting from the best to the worst.

*GSN's NitroNOX Pro*- Probably the pre workout I have ever taken. This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to anyone. I would give it a 10/10.

*Kali Muscle's Hyphy Mud 2.0*- I simply love this product. On paper it looks crap but it makes me feel like a machine. The energy and focus and overall feeling on this product is amazing. I want to give it a 10 but I guess it lacks in pumps so I will give it a 9.5/10.

*Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme*- Amazing. This only has 80mg caffeine per scoop and is more a pump product. Incredible pumps and feel with a nice boost in energy. 2 scoops of this will give you ridiculous pumps and great energy. One of the best I have ever used. 2 scoops is a 9.5/10.

*5% Nutrition 5150*- This gets mixed reviews but I love it. It's not as strong as many may think but I get great energy, pumps and a euphoric feeling shortly after dosing. It's also one of the nicest pre workouts I have ever tasted ( (pomegranate flavour). Overall an easy 9/10.

*PRE JYM*- This didn't impress me at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. I call it a complete pre workout and it performs in every sense (pumps, energy, focus, feel) and contains some useful ingredients. I would give it a 9/10.

*Dynamik's Savage Roar*- An excellent pre workout that delivers in every way. Overall a 9/10.

*Musclerage's Limitless*- One of the nicest tasting pre workouts I have tried (Cotton Candy). Nice clean energy with no crash afterwards. One of the best products I have ever used for pumps. Overall 9/10.

*RedCon1 Total War*- A fantastic product and I can tell most would love this. Great for energy, pumps and focus. You can't really go wrong and it's a 9/10.

*Ronnie Coleman Yeah Buddy*- This to me is very similar to HYDE (on paper and in effect) but without any negatives. A very strong product I recommend to anyone who is fine with stimulants. Overall an easy 9/10. 

*5% Nutrition's Full as Fuck*- Techinally not really a pre workout but many use it for that so it's worth mentioning. This contains no stimulants so if you want that it is ideal. I used this through the day (perhaps going the beach) or pre workout with caffeine. The pumps and vascularity from this are insane for me. It's much better used on an empty stomach and takes time to build up. An excellent stimulant free pre workout. You could also add a good stimulant like teacrine to it to make a fantastic complete preworkout too. For what it is I give it a 9/10.

*Musclemeds NO BULL*- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feel very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks or so. Overall a 8.5/10.

*Cobra Labs The Curse*- Fantastic product. On paper this doesn't look good at all... very basic etc. I think it contains 125mg caffeine and 5mg olive leaf extract per scoop. However I feel this a lot and it seems to get great reviews by most. Very cheap too. 2 scoops of this should make you a machine in the gym. Definitely recommend if you want something simple but effective. Rating changes with scoops but overall a 8.5/10.

*Ergogenix's Ergoblast*- A great pre workout and felt very different to most. Nothing too powerful but the focus was great. The pumps were incredible on this product. Overall I give it a 8.5/10.

*Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice Extreme*- Great product and provides clean energy and incredible pumps. If you need a pump product try this one (10/10 for pumps). Overall I rate it an 8.5/10.

*BSN's NO-XPLODE XE EDGE*- It contains a lot of useful ingredients. Whilst some may not be dosed high enough the final effect is a very good one. It performs in all areas and I felt great on it. This was just a sachet so could be better at a higher dose. Overall an 8.5/10.

*Dorian Yates NOX Pump-* Decent. I used this years ago and it was incredible. This time nowhere as good so the formula must be different (something got banned). Maybe better than decent as with an espresso I am an animal in the gym. This an a single espresso was a fav of mine for a while. With an extra kick this product can score a 9.5/10 but alone it's a solid 8/10.

*Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped*- Probably the strongest pre workout I have ever taken in regards to stimulants. I really enjoyed this and if you like your stimulants definitely try it out. The one area this really stands out in is the added mental focus. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Run Everything Lab's EWP*- This is a very good product but it's effectiveness lowered fairly quickly. It gives me a good boost in energy and pumps. Overall a 8/10.

*ProSupps Mr Hyde Zero*- Everyone rates this very highly but it's nowhere near my favourite products. It's strong and great for energy but this left me breathless and I have used stronger products without that side effect. Although it still scores fairly highly at 8/10.

*Gaspari SP250*- Very good. Better for energy and focus than pumps bit overall a great pre workout. It did make me crash a bit later on though. I would get the shakes too. Ver strong even at just 1 scoop and it is not a 1 scoop formula so be careful when upping the dose. I would give it an 8/10.

*Universal's Fury*- A very basic but solid product. Contains everything you need in a pre workout though. Green apple flavour is the sweetest pre workout I have ever tried. I like that but many won't. Solid product and scores an 8/10.

*Brawn Nutrition's Venom 2.0*-Not for the stimulant sensitive. Although this didn't feel as strong as I intially thougth it would be. Overall a very good product and I rate it an 8/10.

*BSN's NO Xplode 3.0*- Good product and well worth a try. Very long lasting energy with this one. Overall an 8/10.

*Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha*- My latest pre workout and a solid product. Great initial surge of energy that lowers quickly but still stays. Nothing spectacular but many should enjoy this product. So far an 8/10.

*Grenade's .50 Caliber*- It comes in fireball flavour and this is unique to any bb products. Some will love the taste and many will hate it. I quite like it but chilli flavour is unusual. This delivers in all areas and most should enjoy it. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Nutrex Hemo Rage The Underground*- Very similar to Hemo Rage black and gives great energy. Nothing incredible but a solid product. I rate it 7.5/10.

*GAT PMP*- A similar but improved version of Nitraflex. This really grew on me but nothing spectacular. Overall a good product though and I give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Outlift*- Very good product but not as good as the label suggests. It's similar to PRE JYM in many ways but not as effective. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex's Hemo Rage Black*- This is all about energy and a decent product but not as good as many others I have tried. Although I feel really good on this one. Overall I give it a 7.5/10.

*Lee Lebrada Super Charge Xtreme 4.0*- Initially I was not impressed at all but it did improve over time. Not a cheap pre workout either. It's meant to have a lot of caffeine in but I feel a single espresso more than 1 scoop. Might be ok for some but definitely not for me. 1 scop would be 5/10 and 2 scoops 7.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust v2*- Nice flow of energy and great pumps. Not as strong as I thought it would be. Overall a decent preworkout and 7.5/10.

*Beast Yourself Raging Bull*- Very good. On paper it is incredible but doesn't live on to that. Really good pumps and combined with an espresso it comes alive even more. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*PRE-KAGED by Kaged Muscle*- An excellent ingredient list and as a result a very expensive pre workout. Similar to PRE JYM in many ways. Overall a good product but doesn't have the wow factor. Overall I give it an 7.5/10.

*Dynamik's Gamma Ray*- This is more of a compliment product in my eyes. It's the pump product for Savage Roar. If you are judging it solely it's nothing spectacular but when added to a traditonal pre workout it can be really special. Not as effective as Full as Fuck but a very good product. Judging it solely as a pump product I would give it a 7.5/10.

*Universal's Shock Therapy*- A good pre workout in every sense. I would recommend this one for beginners. Performs in all areas and at 2 scoops an 7.5/10.

*USN 3XT Pump*- The only thing this does for pumps is the name of the product. It's all energy and very good at that. Some may liek this but I would run out to buy it. Overall a 7/10.

*MHP's Reckless*- This was a 2 serving sachet so my review is limited to just 1 usage. The initial energy surge was great but it faded really quickly and overall this product is lacking. I can imagine 1 serving would be a waste for me. 2 servings scores a 7/10.

*Scivation Quake 10.0*- What a disappointment. Looks really good on paper but doesn't perform. The pumps are good but no real energy or focus for me. Overall a 6.5/10.

*5% Nutrition KILL IT*- This one I only tried a sample so take this review with a pinch of salt. I wasn't impressed and expected/hoped for better as I like 5%. Didn't notice too much but again only a sample. Overall a 6/10 but with more scoops could be much better.

*GAT Nitraflex*- Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice. I would give it a 5/10.

*MAN Sports NOOPump*- This is another stimulant free pre workout. I was disappointed using this and it's nowhere as effective as Full as Fuck. It's not a bad product but there are much better out there. Overall I rate it a 5/10.

*Warrior Rage*- Marketed as one of the strongest pre workouts but didn't do much. I would not recommend it. I give it a 3/10

*MRI Black Powder*- Crap. Not even worth writing more about. How can you fuck up a pre workout so much. 2 pro plus would be better. Rating is the worst in my list and 1/1.


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## Elvia1023

The other day I used Dymatize Nutrition's M.P.ACT Energy Ignitor and wasn't impressed. It's a pretty standard product and hits you fairly strong but I didn't like the feel from it. There are much better products on the market but still a 6/10. 

Earlier I used 2 scoops of Quake 10.0 for the first time in awhile. It gets good reviews online but for me it simply doesn't deliver. On paper it sounded fantastic so I am not sure what has gone on. An example a very cheap ingredient is Caffeine Anhydrous which they would never short the dosing. However it's suppose to contain 350mg Caffeine Anhydrous and there is no way I feel that. 350mg caffeine is a lot and I use caffeine most days and this doesn't feel like 350mg in a million years. I used the Curse the other day and feel that much more even those the stated dose is much lower. I really wanted it to be great and when ordering was excited as it looks great but very standard even with 2 full scoops. I will stick with my 6.5/10 rating.


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## ASHOP

I quite using stimulant pre workouts like this for the most part. The other day however I cracked open an old can of Focus Nutritions Hercules and that stuff gave me a NICE kick in the pants that lasted several hours with no crash. It a AMP Citrate based product so not sure if its made any longer.


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## Elvia1023

ASHOP said:


> I quite using stimulant pre workouts like this for the most part. The other day however I cracked open an old can of Focus Nutritions Hercules and that stuff gave me a NICE kick in the pants that lasted several hours with no crash. It a AMP Citrate based product so not sure if its made any longer.



I am going to calm down with the pre workouts for awhile. I will still use them most training days but no more than 300mg caffeine and no strong stimulants. Plus that's the only caffeine I have in the day. I will also have a 2 week break from all caffeine very soon.

I just realized I never posted my pre workout collection pic so here it is...




lossless image upload


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## Elvia1023

I have been enjoying using D-Stunner Alpha. It hits hard and fades quicker than most so I especially recommend it for guys who are in and out of the gym within 1 hour.

I may have been a bit generous giving Universal's Shock Therapy 7.5/10 for 2 scoops. It's not a great pre workout and I wouldn't even waste using 1 scoop for me. It's still decent but you need to double scoop it. I understand why in a video I saw Antoine Vailliant treble scooping it. It doesn't state the actual caffeine content and I just looked online to read a rep stating 1 scoop contains "the amount of caffeine is equal to about 2 cups of coffee". Obviously that statement could mean anything but using logic most people go by approx 100mg caffeine per coffee. Although 2 scoops does not feel like 400mg caffeine and closer to 300mg but who knows. It would be ideal for a beginner but there are definitely much better products on the market.

Tonight I used 1.5 scoops of RedCon1's Total War and that felt amazing. It does state don't use more than 2 scoops in a 24 hour period so it's not advertised as a 1 scoop formula even though I mainly use 1 scoop like most people. The 1/2 scoop definitely makes a big difference though. 1 scoop is 250mg caffeine but it contains other stimulants. I was full of energy and the pump was incredible. I obviously use an intra shake as well so that only adds to pumps too. But these pumps were different than usual and I definitely felt the difference.


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## mslmn

What would you recommend for some long lasting energy without over stimulation. I like to keep the caffeine 200 mg. or under but like a mixture of a few different stimulants.


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## Elvia1023

mslmn said:


> What would you recommend for some long lasting energy without over stimulation. I like to keep the caffeine 200 mg. or under but like a mixture of a few different stimulants.



Sorry about the late reply. I have been away and only just noticed this. I would recommend Redcon1's Total War. It has 250mg caffeine and a few other stimulants. It's a great overall product and not too strong with some excellent pump ingredients too.


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## Elvia1023

I ordered myself a tub of the Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme that I have used in the past. I visited my parents in the UK and had it sent there as it's easier. I have to say I was a little disappointed. I guess I am just so used to having that stimulant boost and it was missing that. Although the pumps were great so I can't complain. Long story short I left it in the UK so annoyed as I wanted to use it at home for my late night workouts. I am sure with some teacrine or another stimulant added it will be perfect.

Last night I used 1 scoop of Hyphy Mud 2.0 and that was amazing. Full of energy and focus and it's one of the best I have ever used as my list shows.

Tonight I used Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha again in cherry ice flavour. The first 30 mins are amazing and a big high and lot's of energy but it does drop and fast. This is best used just before you walk in the gym for approx 1 hour workouts. It does obviously stay with you but you definitely feel the drop. If it didn't have the drop it would be higher than an 8/10 and near the top. I  originally wanted to get their original D-Stunner as that is supposed to be amazing but I think it was banned and the Alpha version was released. I have just looked online on about 10 sites and the original is discontinued or out of stock.


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## ASHOP

pjk1969 said:


> id like to try these preworkouts but ii end up getting blood pressure issues. well, i use caffeine ephedrine combo and it shoots my bp up around 170/100.
> would this stuff be better to try or would it max my bp also?



If you have BP issues MOST of the pre workouts will probably aggravate it even more.


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## Sandpig

Elvia1023 said:


> Sorry about the late reply. I have been away and only just noticed this. I would recommend Redcon1's Total War. It has 250mg caffeine and a few other stimulants. It's a great overall product and not too strong with some excellent pump ingredients too.


I second this.


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## Elvia1023

ASHOP said:


> If you have BP issues MOST of the pre workouts will probably aggravate it even more.



x2

Although ECA can be very strong so pjk1969 if you pick certain pre workout products you could get great results but your bp doesn't elevate half as bad. Maybe try something like Cobra Labs The Curse, Redcon's Total War or Pre Jym. The last 2 contain high doses of citrulline malate so that will definitely mitigate some of the bp issues from the caffeine/stimulants.


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## Viking

Savage Roar is a good one. Great pumps and energy.


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## Elvia1023

Viking said:


> Savage Roar is a good one. Great pumps and energy.



It's one of my fav products. They do Gamma-Ray which is their main pump product so that only adds to the Savage Roar. Although unlimited to brands I would add 5%'s 5150 to a product like Savage Roar if someone wanted ultimate pumps.

Tonight I took 1 scoop of Hyphy Mud 2.0 and half a scoop of D-Stunner Alpha and it didn't disappoint. I wanted a big surge of energy and I was flying  I used to combine products a lot in the past but stopped doing it. Gonna carry on combining them but not overdo the total dose. 

The d-stunner alpha really hits in quick and hard and the hyphy mud is slower (still quick though) so it's a nice combination. Although they are both high energy blends but that what I was going for tonight. I might do the same 2moro with 1 scoop of total war and 1/2 scoop of d-stunner alpha as they have much different release patterns.


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## Viking

Elvia1023 said:


> It's one of my fav products. They do Gamma-Ray which is their main pump product so that only adds to the Savage Roar. Although unlimited to brands I would add 5%'s 5150 to a product like Savage Roar if someone wanted ultimate pumps.
> 
> Tonight I took 1 scoop of Hyphy Mud 2.0 and half a scoop of D-Stunner Alpha and it didn't disappoint. I wanted a big surge of energy and I was flying  I used to combine products a lot in the past but stopped doing it. Gonna carry on combining them but not overdo the total dose.
> 
> The d-stunner alpha really hits in quick and hard and the hyphy mud is slower (still quick though) so it's a nice combination. Although they are both high energy blends but that what I was going for tonight. I might do the same 2moro with 1 scoop of total war and 1/2 scoop of d-stunner alpha as they have much different release patterns.



I might try the 5% one. Thanks for the details.


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## El Hereje

Elvia1023 said:


> x2
> 
> 
> 
> Although ECA can be very strong so pjk1969 if you pick certain pre workout products you could get great results but your bp doesn't elevate half as bad. Maybe try something like Cobra Labs The Curse, Redcon's Total War or Pre Jym. The last 2 contain high doses of citrulline malate so that will definitely mitigate some of the bp issues from the caffeine/stimulants.





Is total war pretty good?  Been thinking about trying it, little cheaper than prejym.


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## Elvia1023

Viking said:


> I might try the 5% one. Thanks for the details.



Sorry I meant 5% Full as Fuck. 5150 is their stimulant pre workout (great too). Full as Fuck contains no stimulants and just pump ingredients.



El Hereje said:


> Is total war pretty good?  Been thinking about trying it, little cheaper than prejym.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It's very good. I would definitely recommend it. It does a bit of everything. I guess it depends what you are after. Total War is moderate in regards to stimulants with some great pump ingredients. It's worth stating my moderate could be high for some people so it is not weak by any means. I would go with that or something like Savage Roar.


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## El Hereje

Total war recipe is allot like prejym except no BCAA and not carnosyn brand beta alanine.  I was thinking I would just throw a scoop of BCAA I already have in it.  It’s about 12$ cheaper last time I looked.  250 mg of caffeine is good for me.  I don’t really care for a stimulant “buzz” much.  Makes me feel sick during cardio sometimes.  Thanks for the info


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## striffe

Strong coffee for me. DMAA tabs are good but I stay away from them now.


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## Elvia1023

I have been mixing some products with great results. I usually do 1 scoop of d-stunner alpha with 1/2 scoop of something else. Tonight I just done 1 scoop of d-stunner alpha and had a great workout. This one has grown on me but I still think 8/10 is a fair score for it.

My list doesn't include BSN's No Xplode 3.0 as I forgot about it. I bought it a few months ago but left it for awhile. I did use it a few times but forgot to rate it. I used it the other day and noticed I had misdosed it. Many will know most pre workouts have the serving for 1 scoop on the label. The scoops for this are massive so I assumed 1 scoop. I read it the other day and it states the amounts for 2 servings. So I thought I was getting 300mg caffeine etc and was only getting 150mg caffeine. No wonder I thought it was weak. Here is the ingredient list:

Container Size: 600g
Servings Per Container: 30

Nutritional Information Per 2 Serving:
Energy: 272 kJ / 65 kcal

Amounts Per Serving
Vitamins & Minerals:
Vitamin C: 150 mg / 187%
Vitamin D: 4.6 µg / 92%
Vitamin B1: 3.5 mg /319%
Niacin: 14 mg / 86%
Vitamin B6: 3.5 mg / 251%
Folic acid: 336 µg /168%
Vitamin B12: 2.1 µg / 83%
Pantothenic Acid: 11 mg 178%
Magnesium: 247 mg / 66%

Amino Acids: 11 g / **
L-Arginine: 6g / **
L-Lysine: 1.9g / **
Glycine: 1g / **
N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine: 1g / **
L-Taurine: 1g / **
L-Phenylalanine: 160 mg / **
Creatine Monohydrate: 3.4g / **
Creatine: 3g / **
Beta-Alanine as Carnosyn®: 2.6g / **
Inositol: 1.9g / **
Choline: 400 mg / **
Betaine: 1.5g / **
Caffeine^: 300 mg / **
Grapefruit Bioflavonoids: 50 mg / **
Grapeseed Extract: 90 mg / **
Indian Gooseberry Extract: 75 mg / **
Black Pepper Extract: 10 mg / **

So this time I dosed 2 scoops and I need to mention you can't shake this stuff  at all. I read that so put it in the shaker and stirred it lightly with a fork and the whole thing foamed up to the top and leaked. It was very good but nothing spectacular. Good pumps and no surprise with 6g arginine per 2 servings. I felt the beta alanine tingle a lot with this so that 2.6g Carnosyn is gtg. It contains quite a few useful ingredients. All in all I would say about a 7.5/10 maybe it will go up to an 8 but I need to use it a few more times to better access it.


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## El Hereje

Looks like a solid profile to me.  I never have looked at that one.  So i was at the mall killing some time and went into GNC and they stock prejym now.  Only a couple of bucks more than it is at BB.com.  Used it for leg day this evening, then about 2/3 the way in my workout I chased it with some BCAA mixed with cheap creatine HCL and L-carnitine.  



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## Viking

El Hereje said:


> Looks like a solid profile to me.  I never have looked at that one.  So i was at the mall killing some time and went into GNC and they stock prejym now.  Only a couple of bucks more than it is at BB.com.  Used it for leg day this evening, then about 2/3 the way in my workout I chased it with some BCAA mixed with cheap creatine HCL and L-carnitine.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



How good was prejym?


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## El Hereje

Viking said:


> How good was prejym?





It is good.  I feel strong and alert with a decent pump.  The black cherry flavor is really outstanding.  I like that it uses Creatine HCL, i have always felt better using it over monohydrate but that’s just me. I do need to find something with less caffeine.  About half of my workouts are in the evening so 300mg is just too much.  150-200 is the sweet spot for me.  For morning or early afternoon, I’d say its one of the best I’ve tried.


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## Victory

Any good moderate strength preworkouts? Nothing like hyde but not weak. Thanks


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## Elvia1023

Victory said:


> Any good moderate strength preworkouts? Nothing like hyde but not weak. Thanks



I would say Recon's Total War. Many like GAT's PMP and Nitraflex but they weren't great for me. But with a lower tolerance they could be outstanding. So it may be worth trying GAT's PMP too.


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## El Hereje

How bout the one made by legion?  Anybody try?


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## Elvia1023

El Hereje said:


> It is good.  I feel strong and alert with a decent pump.  The black cherry flavor is really outstanding.  I like that it uses Creatine HCL, i have always felt better using it over monohydrate but that’s just me. I do need to find something with less caffeine.  About half of my workouts are in the evening so 300mg is just too much.  150-200 is the sweet spot for me.  For morning or early afternoon, I’d say its one of the best I’ve tried.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Black Cherry sounds nice. PRE JYM is different in the sense you need to add much more water (like 500ml) and I bet the cherry tastes great. Mine is orange mango and that tastes nice.

Something like The Curse maybe good for you as it's low strength per scoop and you can mix 1-3 scoops depending upon the time you use it.


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## Elvia1023

El Hereje said:


> How bout the one made by legion?  Anybody try?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I haven't but hopefully someone else has.


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## Elvia1023

I posted this in my log but will put it here as well as I use them pre workout as for blood flow, pumps and vascularity they can be incredible.

*PDE5 Inhibitor Experiment* 

I am experimenting with PDE5 inhibitors pre workout now. Not everyday but so far I have used 3 brands. Over the years I have used many pharm grade and UG brands and the quality is mixed. The best ones I have used have been UG. I have used many different brands of tadalafil/cialis. Tadalafil is an incredible drug due to the pumps, vascularity, blood pressure effects and of course for the bedroom. A low dose (5-10mg) I think is a great addition to blasts for so many reasons. Sildenafil/Viagra I haven't used much as the few brands I tried gave me bad side effects such as facial flushing, runny nose, feeling very hot etc. However, I decided to give it another try as it's been years since I last tried it. Vardenafil/Levitra I don't have much experience with but when I tried it was great and the side effects weren't that bad. Here is what I have at the moment...

- Sildamax Sildenafil Citrate 100mg tabs by Argon India Limited
- Sildenafil Citrate 100mg tabs by Alpha Pharmaceuticals India
- Cockfosters 100mg tabs by Shree Venkatesh India 
- Kamagra (sildenafil) 100mg effervescent tabs by Ajanta Pharma Limited India
- Tadalafil 20mg tabs by Shree Venkatesh India
- Valetra Vardenafil 20mg tabs by Shree Venkatesh India

Ok so all of them are from India which I didn't realize until now 

I will go through what I have found so far. Please note other aids would have been used such as pre workout powder and lr3 or des so these reviews are not fully vaildated. Although I know how many things feel and I am mainly going on side effects as they are all good minus the side effects.

Cockfosters 100mg tabs by Shree Venkatesh India... very fast acting and I felt like 90% of the pump went down stairs  I felt really hot and my face was red but they still felt ok. But these are definitely more suited for the bedroom if you want to use them for that.

Kamagra (sildenafil) 100mg effervescent tabs by Ajanta Pharma Limited India... I decided to dose half a tab as these are easy to snap in half and 100mg (above) was too high of a dose. Firstly the taste is horrible but meant to be orange flavour. Thïs felt good and more of the same as above but less pronounced and great for fullness/pumps. I need to experiment more with half a tab as 50mg seems to be a good dose for viagra pre workout.

Tadalafil 20mg tabs by Shree Venkatesh India... I love tadalafil and these are good ones. Great pumps and added vascualrity and all overall good feeling. Interestingly my nose starting running a but which I don't usually get from tadalafil but it wasn't bad. For me tadalafil is superior to viagra for running on cycles simply down to the much longer active life and only needing to dose it eod.

Valetra Vardenafil 20mg tabs by Shree Venkatesh India... these were great. Felt very similar to tadalafil. Very impressed so I will experiment with them more. These are active for upto about 8 hours so much shorter than tadalafil but a little longer than sildenafil. Therefore for guys who don't response well to viagra but would like a shorter acting product these could be ideal for you


----------



## Elvia1023

I have just ordered Enhanced Athlete's new pre workout and that contains DMHA. I have 2 tubs coming so I can experiment with it. Here are the ingredients for the pre workout...







I also have 2 tubs of Mesomorph on the way so I will finally get to try that  Plus I added 1 tub of Nutrex Outlift Amped as that looks great. Here are ingredient panels for each...

Mesomorph





Nutrex Outlift Amped


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## Fitraver

Cockfosters hahahahaha


----------



## El Hereje

That nutrex looks interesting.  


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## Elvia1023

Fitraver said:


> Cockfosters hahahahaha



Trust me a suitable name 



El Hereje said:


> That nutrex looks interesting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It really does. It's a shame they have taken it to somewhere else  It states they have tried to delivery it 3 times and no one has been here. I can't even phone them but have emailed. I am hoping it doesn't get sent back to the US. If it does I will have to pay shipping again to Europe. Hopefully I get to try it soon.


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## Elvia1023

I have been experimenting with combining products recently. Everytime has been great apart from yesterday were I overdone things. Nothing bad but I was constantly out of breath whilst training. I used 1 scoop of hyphymud 2.0 and half a scoop of d-stunner alpha that time. I have also used 2 new products that were samples. 

*DS (Driven Sports) Frenzy... *much better than I thought it would be from reading the label. Great energy and focus and no crash afterwards. I didn't notice much for the pumps on this one (energy formula) but they are usually good anyway (next to no pump ingredients and inadequate doses). The flavour was really unusual as it was purposely very fizzy (orange pop). The sachet was 10g but it stated just 1 serving. But the blend is 4.9g so I am unsure if it was 2 scoops or just 5.1g fillers per scoop. It was just in a sample plastic bag and not a lot of powder so I would guess 1 serving. They recommend 1-2 servings so this could get better if dosed higher. Overall 1 serving I give a 7/10.

Frenzy 40 Servings - Orange Pop 
Serving size - 1 Scoop 
Servings Per Container - 40 

Amount Per Serving DV** 

SRS Wattage Proprietary Blend 4.9g   
Creatine Monohydrate, Taurine, L-Citrulline, L-Carnitine L-Tartrate, 4-Methyl-2-Pentanamine Citrate (Pouchung Tea) (Pentergy), B-Phenylethylamine HCl, Tangerine Extract (Citrus Reticulata) (Fruit) (Citramine), Caffeine Anhydrous.     

* Daily Value Not Established 
Other ingredients: Citric Acid, Natural & Artificial Flavours, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sucralose, Silica, FD&C Red Dye 


*Applied Nutrition ABE (All Black Everything)... *this is a good product that performs well but nothing incredible. Good energy, focus and pumps with this one. The flavour is really different in the fact it is energy flavour so tastes just like a red bull. Although I notice they offer many flavours in this product. Nearly all the creatine is CM so obviously the cheaper source so pointless even putting in the 0.25g of other creatines. They do that so they can mention their tri-creatine blend  It has 100mg teacrine in so you really feel that. It was 1 serving and I would give it a 7.5/10. 1.5 scoops of this could be really good but again just a sample serving.

Serving Information
Container Size: 315 g
Serving Size: 10.5 g
Servings Per Container: 30

Nutritional Information Per Serving
Energy: 1 kcal / 4 kJ
Fats: 0 gof which Saturates: 0 g
Carbohydrate: 0 gof which Sugars: 0 g
Fiber: 0 g
Protein As Is: 0 g
Protein Dry Basis: 0 g
Salt: 0.319 g

Amounts Per Serving
Tri-Creatine Blend: 3.25 g
Beta-Alanine: 2 g
Citruline Malate 2;1: 4 g
TeaCrine: 100 mg
Caffeine: 200 mg
Taurine: 200 mg
Vitamin B3 (Niacinamide): 80 mg
Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin): 100 mcg

Ingredients
Citrulline Malate, Tri Creatine Blend (Creatine Monohydrate (3g per serving), Creatine Ethyl Ester, Creatine HCL), Sodium Bicarbonate, Citric Acid, Taurine, Caffeine, TeaCrine®, Sucralose, Niacinamide, Vitamin B12, Colour Turmeric Extract


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## odin

El Hereje said:


> That nutrex looks interesting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I am thinking the same.


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## Elvia1023

I have used Enhanced Athlete Rage twice now. I have the Berry blast flavour and it tastes like crap which for pre workout is often a good sign (not always). I think it is great so far. Lot's of what I call clean energy and great pumps. It's nowhere as strong as some of the other products I have used but so much smoother. This is a really good product for me and gives the ideal energy and focus I need for the gym without over stimulating. I think the ratio of caffeine to DMHA is ideal. I find DMHA is much smoother than DMAA but obviously similar in effect. So far I would say a 9/10 but I need to experiment with it more.


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## Elvia1023

I have left this thread for awhile but I have so much to update. I will have to do it in stages. I will go through a few things I have tried recently.

*Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme*- I need to change my rating of this as I reordered it after all this time and it is nowhere as good as I remember. The ingredient list is the same so not sure what happened. It is a low caffeine formula so it's not about tolerance. Even the pump factor doesn't perform like it did. It is still good but not 9.5/10. I will put 2 scoops at 8/10.

*Betacourt's D-Stunner Alpha*- I voted this an 8/10 and I am keeping it at that but moving it up the list. Even if products have the same score I have tried to put them in order (due to the sheer number) so the higher the more I prefer that product. This product simply makes me feel so euphoric. This is quite a rare thing with pre workouts. Many contain ingredients that should make you feel that way but often they don't. Only a handful of products have given me this feeling and this is one of them. It's still an 8/10 as it doesn't have the pump factor other products have. Moreover, the euphoric feeling is quite short lived but it definitely deserves being moved up. It's a shame their D-Stunner product was banned as that was suppose to be better and what I originally wanted to order when I bought this.

*Nutrex Outlift Amped*- This is a new one and I have used it a few times recently. On paper this looks fantastic but like the original it under performs. It is still very good but I expected more. I try to start products with an open mind so I can judge them fairly but you only have to look at the ingredient list to see why I thought this one would be one of the best...

Serving Size: 22.2g (Approx 1 scoop) 
Servings Per Container: 20  

Amount per serving  %DV  
Magnesium (from Magnesium Creatine Chelate) 160 mg 40% 
Sodium 135 mg 6% 

Outlift® AMPED Pre-Workout Powerhouse   
Citrulline Malate 2:1 8 g * 
Carnosyn® Beta-Alanine 3.2 g * 
Betaine Anhydrous 2.5 g * 
Creatine MagnaPower® (Creatine Magnesium Chelate) 2 g * 
Taurine 2 g * 
N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine 750 mg * 
Choline Bitartrate 500 mg * 
Caffeine (Active) 350 mg * 
Kaff2 Citrate 50.2% (yielding 200mg caffeine)         
Caffeine Anhydrous (yielding 150mg caffeine)         
Theacrine (as TeaCrine®) 50 mg * 
Bioperine® [(Piper nigrum extract)(fruit)] 5 mg * 
Rauwolscine 1.5 mg  

It is still very good and I need to experiment with it more but I definitely thought it would be better than it is. It's very similar to the original outlift. So far I think an 8/10 but that could increase slightly. I should add the scooper is ridiculous. A perfect example of over designing. They have put a top on it so people can use for water bottles so I get that. But it's so impractical when trying to get powder into the scoop. Not a big deal but worth a mention.

*BSN's Endo Rush*- I just had a 1 serving sample for this one. This is the opposite of the above in many ways. If I didn't have this log when reading the ingredients I would be tempted to add a stimulant. But I wanted to judge it fairly so left it as it was. Firstly it contains some unusual ingredients in the form of euphoria longana and lindera aggregata and these definitely add to it's mentla effects. It contains 3g arginine and 3g citrulline malate. May would state that is enough but in my experience a very good mix and if they are high quality will product excellent muscle pumps. I have used products with 6-8g citrulline malate that didn't give pumps as good as this product. Only 2g beta-alanine as CarnoSyn but it must be a very high purity as I felt it loads. This is why I always state ingredients lists are an indication as who knows what exactly is in a product and what is the purity of those ingredients. 

This product really surprised me. Nice boost in energy but great focus. In the gym I thought this would be ideal for most people who have decent sensitivity to stimulants. Although with this product the energy stayed and I felt great for hours after using. Even for me the energy/focus element was perfect. No jitters or over stimulanted feeling and lot's of clean energy. The pumps were also fanastic but my intra shake could add to that but it is a fixed thing so I use it for all products now. This is one of the best products I have used recently. I would give it about a 9/10. Something I just noticed is the ingredient profile for my sample is different to the one posted online. This one does not contain yohimbe plus different doses of other ingredients. Here is the ingredient list.






I have used Mesomorph recently as well but want to use it more before I post about it.


----------



## El Hereje

I really want to try that BSN based on this review.  I need something with a little less caffeine as I drink a ton of coffee throughout the day.  Just wish it had more carnosyn.  


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## Elvia1023

El Hereje said:


> I really want to try that BSN based on this review.  I need something with a little less caffeine as I drink a ton of coffee throughout the day.  Just wish it had more carnosyn.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I recommend it but try and get the one I used with that formula. It only has 2g's of BA but I felt it a lot. You could always buy some BA powder and add extra but I don't think it is needed but always worth having to add to pre workouts or intra drinks. I have used products that contained more BA on the label but I never felt them as much. I could really feel the BA tingles with the BSN product.


----------



## odin

How did you find mesomorph? I might give the BSN one a try as well.


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## El Hereje

So I swung by vitamin shop tonight with the intention of buying that BSN.  The only had the no xplode so I picked up the nutrex outlift instead.  I thought it was pretty well outstanding, damn good pump and no lightheaded “cracky” feeling 


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## Martellrui

Elvia1023 said:


> Firstly I regretted doing this as it took my ages (hours)  I have compiled a complete list of everything I have used during this thread including a rating and brief review. Please note my stimulant tolerance has changed during this thread so some products from the past may not have the same effect as they once did. The same could be said for recent products that may not have scored highly but perhaps earlier may have felt better to me. Although I like to keep small amounts of many powders so I can reuse in the future and see if they passed the test of time. Below are all the products from start to finish starting from the best to the worst.
> 
> *GSN's NitroNOX Pro*- Probably the pre workout I have ever taken. This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to anyone. I would give it a 10/10.
> 
> *Kali Muscle's Hyphy Mud 2.0*- I simply love this product. On paper it looks crap but it makes me feel like a machine. The energy and focus and overall feeling on this product is amazing. I want to give it a 10 but I guess it lacks in pumps so I will give it a 9.5/10.
> 
> *Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme*- Amazing. This only has 80mg caffeine per scoop and is more a pump product. Incredible pumps and feel with a nice boost in energy. 2 scoops of this will give you ridiculous pumps and great energy. One of the best I have ever used. 2 scoops is a 9.5/10.
> 
> *5% Nutrition 5150*- This gets mixed reviews but I love it. It's not as strong as many may think but I get great energy, pumps and a euphoric feeling shortly after dosing. It's also one of the nicest pre workouts I have ever tasted ( (pomegranate flavour). Overall an easy 9/10.
> 
> *PRE JYM*- This didn't impress me at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. I call it a complete pre workout and it performs in every sense (pumps, energy, focus, feel) and contains some useful ingredients. I would give it a 9/10.
> 
> *Dynamik's Savage Roar*- An excellent pre workout that delivers in every way. Overall a 9/10.
> 
> *Musclerage's Limitless*- One of the nicest tasting pre workouts I have tried (Cotton Candy). Nice clean energy with no crash afterwards. One of the best products I have ever used for pumps. Overall 9/10.
> 
> *RedCon1 Total War*- A fantastic product and I can tell most would love this. Great for energy, pumps and focus. You can't really go wrong and it's a 9/10.
> 
> *Ronnie Coleman Yeah Buddy*- This to me is very similar to HYDE (on paper and in effect) but without any negatives. A very strong product I recommend to anyone who is fine with stimulants. Overall an easy 9/10.
> 
> *5% Nutrition's Full as Fuck*- Techinally not really a pre workout but many use it for that so it's worth mentioning. This contains no stimulants so if you want that it is ideal. I used this through the day (perhaps going the beach) or pre workout with caffeine. The pumps and vascularity from this are insane for me. It's much better used on an empty stomach and takes time to build up. An excellent stimulant free pre workout. You could also add a good stimulant like teacrine to it to make a fantastic complete preworkout too. For what it is I give it a 9/10.
> 
> *Musclemeds NO BULL*- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feel very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks or so. Overall a 8.5/10.
> 
> *Cobra Labs The Curse*- Fantastic product. On paper this doesn't look good at all... very basic etc. I think it contains 125mg caffeine and 5mg olive leaf extract per scoop. However I feel this a lot and it seems to get great reviews by most. Very cheap too. 2 scoops of this should make you a machine in the gym. Definitely recommend if you want something simple but effective. Rating changes with scoops but overall a 8.5/10.
> 
> *Ergogenix's Ergoblast*- A great pre workout and felt very different to most. Nothing too powerful but the focus was great. The pumps were incredible on this product. Overall I give it a 8.5/10.
> 
> *Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice Extreme*- Great product and provides clean energy and incredible pumps. If you need a pump product try this one (10/10 for pumps). Overall I rate it an 8.5/10.
> 
> *BSN's NO-XPLODE XE EDGE*- It contains a lot of useful ingredients. Whilst some may not be dosed high enough the final effect is a very good one. It performs in all areas and I felt great on it. This was just a sachet so could be better at a higher dose. Overall an 8.5/10.
> 
> *Dorian Yates NOX Pump-* Decent. I used this years ago and it was incredible. This time nowhere as good so the formula must be different (something got banned). Maybe better than decent as with an espresso I am an animal in the gym. This an a single espresso was a fav of mine for a while. With an extra kick this product can score a 9.5/10 but alone it's a solid 8/10.
> 
> *Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped*- Probably the strongest pre workout I have ever taken in regards to stimulants. I really enjoyed this and if you like your stimulants definitely try it out. The one area this really stands out in is the added mental focus. Overall I give it an 8/10.
> 
> *Run Everything Lab's EWP*- This is a very good product but it's effectiveness lowered fairly quickly. It gives me a good boost in energy and pumps. Overall a 8/10.
> 
> *ProSupps Mr Hyde Zero*- Everyone rates this very highly but it's nowhere near my favourite products. It's strong and great for energy but this left me breathless and I have used stronger products without that side effect. Although it still scores fairly highly at 8/10.
> 
> *Gaspari SP250*- Very good. Better for energy and focus than pumps bit overall a great pre workout. It did make me crash a bit later on though. I would get the shakes too. Ver strong even at just 1 scoop and it is not a 1 scoop formula so be careful when upping the dose. I would give it an 8/10.
> 
> *Universal's Fury*- A very basic but solid product. Contains everything you need in a pre workout though. Green apple flavour is the sweetest pre workout I have ever tried. I like that but many won't. Solid product and scores an 8/10.
> 
> *Brawn Nutrition's Venom 2.0*-Not for the stimulant sensitive. Although this didn't feel as strong as I intially thougth it would be. Overall a very good product and I rate it an 8/10.
> 
> *BSN's NO Xplode 3.0*- Good product and well worth a try. Very long lasting energy with this one. Overall an 8/10.
> 
> *Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha*- My latest pre workout and a solid product. Great initial surge of energy that lowers quickly but still stays. Nothing spectacular but many should enjoy this product. So far an 8/10.
> 
> *Grenade's .50 Caliber*- It comes in fireball flavour and this is unique to any bb products. Some will love the taste and many will hate it. I quite like it but chilli flavour is unusual. This delivers in all areas and most should enjoy it. Overall I give it an 8/10.
> 
> *Nutrex Hemo Rage The Underground*- Very similar to Hemo Rage black and gives great energy. Nothing incredible but a solid product. I rate it 7.5/10.
> 
> *GAT PMP*- A similar but improved version of Nitraflex. This really grew on me but nothing spectacular. Overall a good product though and I give it a 7.5/10.
> 
> *Nutrex Outlift*- Very good product but not as good as the label suggests. It's similar to PRE JYM in many ways but not as effective. I would give it a 7.5/10.
> 
> *Nutrex's Hemo Rage Black*- This is all about energy and a decent product but not as good as many others I have tried. Although I feel really good on this one. Overall I give it a 7.5/10.
> 
> *Lee Lebrada Super Charge Xtreme 4.0*- Initially I was not impressed at all but it did improve over time. Not a cheap pre workout either. It's meant to have a lot of caffeine in but I feel a single espresso more than 1 scoop. Might be ok for some but definitely not for me. 1 scop would be 5/10 and 2 scoops 7.5/10.
> 
> *Blackstone Labs Dust v2*- Nice flow of energy and great pumps. Not as strong as I thought it would be. Overall a decent preworkout and 7.5/10.
> 
> *Beast Yourself Raging Bull*- Very good. On paper it is incredible but doesn't live on to that. Really good pumps and combined with an espresso it comes alive even more. I would give it a 7.5/10.
> 
> *PRE-KAGED by Kaged Muscle*- An excellent ingredient list and as a result a very expensive pre workout. Similar to PRE JYM in many ways. Overall a good product but doesn't have the wow factor. Overall I give it an 7.5/10.
> 
> *Dynamik's Gamma Ray*- This is more of a compliment product in my eyes. It's the pump product for Savage Roar. If you are judging it solely it's nothing spectacular but when added to a traditonal pre workout it can be really special. Not as effective as Full as Fuck but a very good product. Judging it solely as a pump product I would give it a 7.5/10.
> 
> *Universal's Shock Therapy*- A good pre workout in every sense. I would recommend this one for beginners. Performs in all areas and at 2 scoops an 7.5/10.
> 
> *USN 3XT Pump*- The only thing this does for pumps is the name of the product. It's all energy and very good at that. Some may liek this but I would run out to buy it. Overall a 7/10.
> 
> *MHP's Reckless*- This was a 2 serving sachet so my review is limited to just 1 usage. The initial energy surge was great but it faded really quickly and overall this product is lacking. I can imagine 1 serving would be a waste for me. 2 servings scores a 7/10.
> 
> *Scivation Quake 10.0*- What a disappointment. Looks really good on paper but doesn't perform. The pumps are good but no real energy or focus for me. Overall a 6.5/10.
> 
> *5% Nutrition KILL IT*- This one I only tried a sample so take this review with a pinch of salt. I wasn't impressed and expected/hoped for better as I like 5%. Didn't notice too much but again only a sample. Overall a 6/10 but with more scoops could be much better.
> 
> *GAT Nitraflex*- Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice. I would give it a 5/10.
> 
> *MAN Sports NOOPump*- This is another stimulant free pre workout. I was disappointed using this and it's nowhere as effective as Full as Fuck. It's not a bad product but there are much better out there. Overall I rate it a 5/10.
> 
> *Warrior Rage*- Marketed as one of the strongest pre workouts but didn't do much. I would not recommend it. I give it a 3/10
> 
> *MRI Black Powder*- Crap. Not even worth writing more about. How can you fuck up a pre workout so much. 2 pro plus would be better. Rating is the worst in my list and 1/1.



Hi mate
Great reviews! May You tell me where to but gsn nitronox in europe?


----------



## Viking

El Hereje said:


> So I swung by vitamin shop tonight with the intention of buying that BSN.  The only had the no xplode so I picked up the nutrex outlift instead.  I thought it was pretty well outstanding, damn good pump and no lightheaded “cracky” feeling
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Did you get Outlift Amped like elvia? Or is it the older version?


----------



## El Hereje

Viking said:


> Did you get Outlift Amped like elvia? Or is it the older version?





Just the regular outlift.  I think it’s pretty good.  


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## SURGE

Has anyone tried mutant mayhem or madness?


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## Elvia1023

Martellrui said:


> Hi mate
> Great reviews! May You tell me where to but gsn nitronox in europe?



Unfortunately I don't think they are no longer in business 



Viking said:


> Did you get Outlift Amped like elvia? Or is it the older version?



I have actually used both versions. 



El Hereje said:


> Just the regular outlift.  I think it’s pretty good.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Reading back I gave it a 7.5/10 stating it was very good. I remember it was one of the first (if not the first) to come out with the clinical dose of 6g citrulline malate. At the time it sounded amazing and I recall it never performed like I expected but still very good. The Amped version for me is better but feels similar and again not as good as I expected it to be. It's basically exactly how it states and an amped version of the original so similar but a bit stronger. I would give the Amped version 8-8.5/10.



SURGE said:


> Has anyone tried mutant mayhem or madness?



I am a big fan of Mutant products but have never tried either. I have come close to ordering both on numerous occasions. I always figured there are better alternatives. They both get rated well with Mayhem coming out slightly on top. They are fairly cheap so I will have to try out Mayhem one day. I haven't basically because I am 99% certain it will be good but nothing special but for someone with higher sensitivity it could be great. Although as I always state the only way to know is to try it so I will have to one day.


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## Elvia1023

I have this thread on another forum and some recently asked me about supplements that can help make you feel euphoric as I mentioned certain pre workouts can do that. I will put what I told him in this thread too. There are certain nootropics such as Flmodafinil, Sunifiram, Aniracetam, Noopept and Phenibut etc. In the same brackets there are also herbs such as kratom, nutmeg and kava kava. Then there are supplements such as St John's Wort, 5-HTP, GABA etc. But in regards to what is fairly common in pre workouts all the following can assist in improving your mood or making you feel happy:

Caffeine
Teacrine
B-vitamins
Choline Bitartrate
L-theanine
L-tyrosine
Taurine
Mucuna pruriens
Inositol 
Acetyl-L-Carnitine HCL
Ginko Biloba  
Huperzine A
Ginseng

Some products simply make me feel euproric but you can't always go by the label. Although definitely look out for things such as caffeine, choline, theanine and tyrosine as they are very common and useful additions to any pre workout.


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## Elvia1023

I have been meaning to update more but below are a few points about the last few weeks. I have been using Mesomorph and some of my older ones.

- My hyphymud 2.0 seems to have lost some of it's potency but I will verify this over the next week.

- I finished my 5150 tub. I had left about 3 servings for awhile and used them recently. This is an outstanding product for me. It gets mixed reviews but this is one of the best I have ever used. Really enjoy it and will likely order it again.

- Nutrex Outlift Amped well nothing much has changed. Very good product but I did expect a little more.

- Enhanced Athlete Rage is a great product as I have mentioned in the past. Subtle in many ways but packed full of clean/smooth energy and focus.

Now on to Mesomorph that is the highest rated product from this thread by others. I have used it about 7 times so far. I have used it on an empty stomach and before different body parts and even after a few days break. Very disappointed with it. It simply doesn't suit my body. It must be the DMAA as many report different findings when using it. 

Mesomorph is obviously strong but I don't feel it in a good way. It can make me a bit out of breath but I don't feel insane focus etc. It's not bad but I just don't feel great on it and I have tried 3/4 of a scoop to 1.5 scoops. I also seem to crash from it. My hgh fatigue has added to things but when I use 5150 or others I still have lot's of energy post workout. Everytime I have used Mesomorph I have fallen asleep post workout. Again hgh has added to that but 100% it's the product too. Plus I don't even get much of a high to begin with. 

I find DMHA that is in Rage is much cleaner/smoother than DMAA. I would give Mesomorph 8/10 maybe even 7.5/10. I was really hoping it would be great and I even ordered 2 tubs but for me it definitely doesn't treat me like it does for others.


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## Victory

I have been using total war and so far it's great. It can feel quite strong but I never get the shakes like I have with some in the past. I am full of energy for hours but can sleep no problem so very happy. Thanks for the suggestion. I will pick up another one soon but not sure what brand just yet.


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## cobraforce

AAKG is the main ingredient for me it seams as long as a mix has it I get great pumps most pre workouts just make me too figity


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## SURGE

cobraforce said:


> AAKG is the main ingredient for me it seams as long as a mix has it I get great pumps most pre workouts just make me too figity



I have used this with great effect in the past as well. It feels stronger to me than citrulline malate.


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## Elvia1023

I have been meaning to post in this thread for ages. It's got to the point I have forgotten many things but I will try my best to update my pre workout ratings list with new additions and adjustments.

New additions include:

Dymatize Nutrition's M.P.ACT Energy Ignitor
DS (Driven Sports) Frenzy
Applied Nutrition ABE (All Black Everything)
Nutrex Outlift Amped
Enhanced Athlete's RAGE
BSN's Endo Rush
APS Nutrition Mesomorph 

Adjustments include:

Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme
Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha


*GSN's NitroNOX Pro*- Probably the pre workout I have ever taken. This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to anyone. I would give it a 10/10. Unfortunately this product is no longer available which is a shame.

*Kali Muscle's Hyphy Mud 2.0*- I simply love this product. On paper it looks crap but it makes me feel like a machine. The energy and focus and overall feeling on this product is amazing. I want to give it a 10 but I guess it lacks in pumps so I will give it a 9.5/10.

*5% Nutrition 5150*- This gets mixed reviews but I love it. It's not as strong as many may think but I get great energy, pumps and a euphoric feeling shortly after dosing. It's also one of the nicest pre workouts I have ever tasted ( (pomegranate flavour). Overall an easy 9/10.

*PRE JYM*- This didn't impress me at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. I call it a complete pre workout and it performs in every sense (pumps, energy, focus, feel) and contains some useful ingredients. I would give it a 9/10.

*Dynamik's Savage Roar*- An excellent pre workout that delivers in every way. Overall a 9/10.

*Musclerage's Limitless*- One of the nicest tasting pre workouts I have tried (Cotton Candy). Nice clean energy with no crash afterwards. One of the best products I have ever used for pumps. Overall 9/10.

*RedCon1 Total War*- A fantastic product and I can tell most would love this. Great for energy, pumps and focus. You can't really go wrong and it's a 9/10.

*BSN's Endo Rush*- I used just a 1 serving sample for this product. It contains some unusual ingredients in the form of euphoria longana and lindera aggregata and these definitely add to it's mental effects. It contains 3g arginine and 3g citrulline malate. Many would state that is not enough but in my experience a very good mix and if they are high quality should produce excellent muscle pumps. Only 2g beta-alanine as CarnoSyn but it must be a very high purity as I felt it loads. This is why I always state ingredient lists are an indication as who knows what exactly is in a product and what is the purity of those ingredients. Great pumps and a nice boost in energy but great focus. The energy stayed and I felt great for hours after using. No jitters or over stimulanted feeling and lot's of clean energy. Something I noticed is the ingredient profile for my sample is different to the one posted online. The product I used does not contain yohimbe plus uses different doses of other ingredients. I would give this 9/10. 

*Ronnie Coleman Yeah Buddy*- This to me is very similar to HYDE (on paper and in effect) but without any negatives. A very strong product I recommend to anyone who is fine with stimulants. Overall an easy 9/10. 

*5% Nutrition's Full as Fuck*- Techinally not really a pre workout but many use it for that so it's worth mentioning. This contains no stimulants so if you want that it is ideal. I used this through the day (perhaps going the beach) or pre workout with caffeine. The pumps and vascularity from this are insane for me. It's much better used on an empty stomach and takes time to build up. An excellent stimulant free pre workout. You could also add a good stimulant like teacrine to it to make a fantastic complete preworkout too. For what it is I give it a 9/10.

*Enhanced Athlete's RAGE-*Berry blast flavour tastes like crap which for pre workout is often a good sign (not always). Lot's of clean energy and great pumps. It's nowhere as strong as some of the other products I have used but so much smoother. This is a really good product for me and gives the ideal energy and focus I need for the gym without over stimulating. I think the ratio of caffeine to DMHA is ideal. I find DMHA is much smoother than DMAA but obviously similar in effect. I would give this 9/10.

*Musclemeds NO BULL*- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feel very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks or so. Overall a 8.5/10.

*Cobra Labs The Curse*- Fantastic product. On paper this doesn't look good at all (very basic). I think it contains 125mg caffeine and 5mg olive leaf extract per scoop. 2 scoops of this should make you a machine in the gym. Definitely recommend if you want something simple but effective. Rating changes with scoops but overall a 8.5/10.

*Ergogenix's Ergoblast*- A great pre workout and felt very different to most. Nothing too powerful but the focus was great. The pumps were incredible on this product. Overall I give it a 8.5/10.

*Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice Extreme*- Great product and provides clean energy and incredible pumps. If you need a pump product try this one (10/10 for pumps). Overall I rate it an 8.5/10.

*BSN's NO-XPLODE XE EDGE*- It contains a lot of useful ingredients. Whilst some may not be dosed high enough the final effect is a very good one. It performs in all areas and I felt great on it. This was just a sachet so could be better at a higher dose. Overall an 8.5/10.

*Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha*- Great initial surge of energy that lowers quickly but still stays. This product simply makes me feel so euphoric. This is quite a rare thing with pre workouts. Many contain ingredients that should make you feel that way but often they don't. Only a handful of products have given me this feeling and this is one of them. Many should enjoy this product. A solid 8/10.

*Nutrex Outlift Amped*- On paper this looks fantastic but like the original it under performs. It is still very good but I expected more. It's very similar to the original outlift and performs in all areas. I should add the scooper is ridiculous. A perfect example of over designing. They have put a top on it so people can use for water bottles so I get that. But it's so impractical when trying to get powder into the scoop. Not a big deal but worth a mention. I give this 8/10.

*Dorian Yates NOX Pump-* Decent. I used this years ago and it was incredible. This time nowhere as good so the formula must be different (something got banned). Maybe better than decent as with an espresso I am an animal in the gym. This an a single espresso was a fav of mine for a while. With an extra kick this product can score a 9.5/10 but alone it's a solid 8/10.

*Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped*- Probably the strongest pre workout I have ever taken in regards to stimulants. I really enjoyed this and if you like your stimulants definitely try it out. The one area this really stands out in is the added mental focus. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Run Everything Lab's EWP*- This is a very good product but it's effectiveness lowered fairly quickly. It gives me a good boost in energy and pumps. Overall a 8/10.

*ProSupps Mr Hyde Zero*- Everyone rates this very highly but it's nowhere near my favourite products. It's strong and great for energy but this left me breathless and I have used stronger products without that side effect. Although it still scores fairly highly at 8/10.

*Gaspari SP250*- Very good. Better for energy and focus than pumps bit overall a great pre workout. It did make me crash a bit later on though. I would get the shakes too. Very strong even at just 1 scoop and it is not a 1 scoop formula so be careful when upping the dose. I would give it an 8/10.

*Universal's Fury*- A very basic but solid product. Contains everything you need in a pre workout though. Green apple flavour is the sweetest pre workout I have ever tried. I like that but many won't. Solid product and scores an 8/10.

*Brawn Nutrition's Venom 2.0*-Not for the stimulant sensitive. Although this didn't feel as strong as I intially thougth it would be. Overall a very good product and I rate it an 8/10.

*BSN's NO Xplode 3.0*- Good product and well worth a try. Very long lasting energy with this one. Includes many useful ingredients. Do not shake this one and just stir it. Overall an 8/10.

*Grenade's .50 Caliber*- It comes in fireball flavour and this is unique to any bb products. Some will love the taste and many will hate it. I quite like it but chilli flavour is unusual. This delivers in all areas and most should enjoy it. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme*- I have knocked this down from a 9.5/10. When I used this again it's performance was completely different. The ingredient list is the same but my response completely different. It only contains 80mg caffeine per scoop but this is not a stimulant thing. Even the pump factor is a fraction of the past. I can speculate why but no point as the main factor is how it performs now. Good pumps and energy. 2 scoops is a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Hemo Rage The Underground*- Very similar to Hemo Rage black and gives great energy. Nothing incredible but a solid product. I rate it 7.5/10.

*GAT PMP*- A similar but improved version of Nitraflex. This really grew on me but nothing spectacular. Overall a good product though and I give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Outlift*- Very good product but not as good as the label suggests. It's similar to PRE JYM in many ways but not as effective. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex's Hemo Rage Black*- This is all about energy and a decent product but not as good as many others I have tried. Although I feel really good on this one. Overall I give it a 7.5/10.

*Lee Lebrada Super Charge Xtreme 4.0*- Initially I was not impressed at all but it did improve over time. Not a cheap pre workout either. It's meant to have a lot of caffeine in but I feel a single espresso more than 1 scoop. Might be ok for some but definitely not for me. 1 scop would be 5/10 and 2 scoops 7.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust v2*- Nice flow of energy and great pumps. Not as strong as I thought it would be. Overall a decent preworkout and 7.5/10.

*Applied Nutrition ABE (All Black Everything)-* this is a good product that performs well but nothing incredible. Good energy, focus and pumps with this one. The flavour is really different in the fact it is energy flavour so tastes just like a red bull. Although I notice they offer many flavours in this product. Nearly all the creatine is CM so obviously the cheaper source so pointless even putting in the 0.25g of other creatines. They do that so they can mention their tri-creatine blend. It contains 100mg teacrine so you really feel that. I used a sample and think if you dosed 1.5 scoops this could be really good. For 1 serving I would give it 7.5/10. 

*Beast Yourself Raging Bull*- Very good. On paper it is incredible but doesn't live on to that. Really good pumps and combined with an espresso it comes alive even more. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*PRE-KAGED by Kaged Muscle*- An excellent ingredient list and as a result a very expensive pre workout. Similar to PRE JYM in many ways. Overall a good product but doesn't have the wow factor. Overall I give it an 7.5/10.

*APS Nutrition Mesomorph*- This is literally the highest rated preworkout on the forums. I was very disappointed with it. Some people just don't respond to DMAA like others. Although for me there is more to it than that. Mesomorph is obviously strong but I don't feel it in a good way. It can make me a bit out of breath but I don't feel insane focus etc. It's not bad but I just don't feel great on it and I have tried 1/2 of a scoop to 1.5 scoops. I also seem to crash from it and many times would feel very tired after the gym. I would give it 7.5/10.

*Dynamik's Gamma Ray*- This is more of a compliment product in my eyes. It's the pump product for Savage Roar. If you are judging it solely it's nothing spectacular but when added to a traditonal pre workout it can be really special. Not as effective as Full as Fuck but a very good product. Judging it solely as a pump product I would give it a 7.5/10.

*DS (Driven Sports) Frenzy-* much better than I thought it would be from reading the label. Great energy and focus and no crash afterwards. I didn't notice much for the pumps on this one (energy formula) but they are usually good anyway (next to no pump ingredients and inadequate doses). The flavour was really unusual as it was purposely very fizzy (orange pop). They recommend 1-2 servings so this could get better if dosed higher. For 1 serving I give 7/10.

*USN 3XT Pump*- The only thing this does for pumps is the name of the product. It's all energy and very good at that. Some may like this but I wouldn't run out to buy it. Overall a 7/10.

*MHP's Reckless*- This was a 2 serving sachet so my review is limited to just 1 usage. The initial energy surge was great but it faded really quickly and overall this product is lacking. I can imagine 1 serving would be a waste for me. 2 servings scores a 7/10.

*Universal's Shock Therapy*- I have lowered this down after using the full tub. I would recommend this one for beginners. Performs in all areas but I need to use 2 scoops and at that dose rate it 6.5/10.

*Scivation Quake 10.0*- What a disappointment. Looks really good on paper but doesn't perform. The pumps are good but no real energy or focus for me. Overall a 6.5/10.

*5% Nutrition KILL IT*- This one I only tried a sample so take this review with a pinch of salt. I wasn't impressed and expected/hoped for better as I like 5%. Didn't notice too much but again only a sample. Overall a 6/10 but with more scoops could be much better.

*Dymatize Nutrition's M.P.ACT Energy Ignitor*- a pretty standard product and hits you fairly strong but I didn't like the feel from it. There are much better products on the market but still a 6/10. 

*GAT Nitraflex*- Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice. I would give it a 5/10.

*MAN Sports NOOPump*- This is another stimulant free pre workout. I was disappointed using this and it's nowhere as effective as Full as Fuck. It's not a bad product but there are much better out there. Overall I rate it a 5/10.

*Warrior Rage*- Marketed as one of the strongest pre workouts but didn't do much. I would not recommend it. I give it a 3/10

*MRI Black Powder*- Crap. Not even worth writing more about. How can you fuck up a pre workout so much. 2 pro plus would be better. Rating is the worst in my list and 1/1.


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## Elvia1023

I have 2 new products and have used them both. I will need more time to fully judge them but so far very good. Both have excellent ingredient profiles.

*AllMax Nutrition - Impact Igniter*

Some interesting ingredients and a very solid product so far. I use 1 scoop and so far about 8/10.







Muscletech Shatter, SX-7, Black Onyx

I used this for the first time tonight. Very impressed with it. Again some interesting ingredients. The main thing that stands out is the inclusion of adenosine triphosphate. If anyone hasn't used this I fully recommend it. It's a shame the dose isn't higher in this product as I respond great to it. I even rate ATP higher than citrulline malate for pumps. I should add this recommends 2 scoops per serving so 400mg ATP is great.


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## Jim550

Damn Elvia you are the pre-workout king!  I don't usually use pre-workouts but picked one up at Walmart today since it was really cheap, it is MuscleTech's Neurocore Pre-Workout.  Have you or anyone else tried this one?

2 scoops contains:
3.2g Beta-Alanine
3g Citrulline
3g Creatine HCl
320mg caffeine
150mg l-theanine
100mg Rhodiola extract
40mg Yohimbe extract


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## rAJJIN

I just picked up a new one (to me) called stage 1
Seen or tried it Elvia? 


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## odin

Elvia1023 said:


> *AllMax Nutrition - Impact Igniter*
> 
> Some interesting ingredients and a very solid product so far. I use 1 scoop and so far about 8/10.



This looks good. I have heard good things about Lion's Mane recently.


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## Elvia1023

Sorry for the late reply. I saw these last week but totally forgot to reply 



Jim550 said:


> Damn Elvia you are the pre-workout king!  I don't usually use pre-workouts but picked one up at Walmart today since it was really cheap, it is MuscleTech's Neurocore Pre-Workout.  Have you or anyone else tried this one?
> 
> 2 scoops contains:
> 3.2g Beta-Alanine
> 3g Citrulline
> 3g Creatine HCl
> 320mg caffeine
> 150mg l-theanine
> 100mg Rhodiola extract
> 40mg Yohimbe extract



I have never used that one. How is it for you? My newest pre workout is Muscletech's brand new one (shatter sx-7 black onyx) which is really good. Some people feel off from yohimbe but anytime I have used it in a pre workout I have felt good. Although I have never used it as a standalone product. In fact I think the new one contains the same dose of yohimbe per 2 servings (40mg).



rAJJIN said:


> I just picked up a new one (to me) called stage 1
> Seen or tried it Elvia?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That is a new one for me. I just looked it up and it looks good. I see it has some good pump ingredients and is moderate strength energy wise. It contains 200mcg Huperzine A which is a nice addition. From the doses of everything I assume it's a good product (pumps etc) with good energy but no jitters and good focus with the addition of huperzine. How has it been so far?



Recently I have been rotating products with good effect. I used 1.5 scoops of Nutrex Outlift Amped yesterday before training chest. I had it on a fairly empty stomach as well and have to get the tram to the gym. I was sat there in a crowded tram and it hit hard but in stages and at one point I was thinking maybe that extra 1/2 scoop was too much  But once I got to the gym I was a machine and went for it. I lifted very heavy and probably looked a bit mental how fast I was moving between sets 

The workout before the above I used Mesomorph and more of the same. I took a decent amount as well but again don't feel it much. The DMAA makes me feel off and not strong for me. Just a weird feeling and definitely not for me. I will give the tub away as I doubt I will use it again. Maybe 7.5/10 is too generous on my part. Obviously most love it but I simply don't respond well to it.

One day I used 1.5 scoops of Hyphy Mud 2.0 and that was the best workout I have had in awhile. I used slightly more as it seems to have lost it's potency (a little) but that day I felt amazing. I push it in the gym all the time but using something like this just ensures I am at 100% my entire session and I move faster between sets and keep the intensity high the whole way through.

Another day I used EA's Rage and that was great too. That is the most "smooth" pre workout I currently own. My head is very clear and I can focus on what I am doing without that crazy stimed feeling. The energy is clean and very long lasting so a great alternative to my other products. I will have to experiment with DMHA more in the future.


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## Kindlife

I usually stay away from the stims. Just some Cialis and injectable anadrol and I'm good to go. If I need a pik me up I prefer modafinil.


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## Concreteguy

Elvia, I train at 5 to 7 pm in the evening. What could I use that wont keep me up at night?


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## Elvia1023

Concreteguy said:


> Elvia, I train at 5 to 7 pm in the evening. What could I use that wont keep me up at night?



Sorry I missed this. What time do you go to bed? Preworkouts containing stimulants may not be on the menu for you. Most stay in the system for awhile. You could try something with less caffeine in but it still may cause an issue. As a result I would recommend something with no stimulants and just add a shot or 2 of espresso. Huperzine A would be worthwhile stacking with something like 5%'s Full as Fuck (and 1 espresso or caffeine pill if needed). That will give you incredible pumps with good focus but won't keep you awake.


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## Elvia1023

I have been experimenting with my old products and things have been good. Although I have used up most of my fav products so I am left with ones I don't rate super high. As a result I am little bored and feel like I need to pick up a couple of new ones for a good boost. Tonight I used the last of my hyphy mud 2.0 which is a great product. My favs from what I have left are probably EA's Rage and Nutrex's Outlift Amped.

The other day I gave mesomorph another go and was disappointed again. I even tried 1.5 scoops but don't feel it in a good way. It makes me feel a bit off. HYDE is another product that gets rated very highly but doesn't suit me either. I feel better on it than Mesomorph but again just a bit off. I also used 1.5 scoops of that the other day and didn't get much from it. I will probably give them both away.

1.5 scoops of Rage or Outlift Amped and I am gtg. I can the same with lower doses but been using more recently. EA Rage is great for focus and clean energy. Although at 1.5 scoops and on the tram to the gym I felt a bit out of it but once I got to the gym I was gtg. It's a shame my Musclemeds NO BULL has hardened up so much. It's impossible to use. I could put it in a blender but I find they are never the same again. Although 2moro I will actually do the blender thing and see how it goes as it is a great product.

I noticed they have changed the Rage formula and it looks great. But I can't be bothered ordering just 1 product from the site due to the possibility of getting ripepd off with customs tax. It can be backwards here and they charge me approx $50 for anything so I would rather order stuff somewhere were I am getting other products as well so I don't mind getting charged tax. Incidentally here is the ingredient profile:

Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine hydrochloride)100mg 5882%
Vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin) 200mcg 8333%
Magnesium (as magnesium citrate)19mg 5%
Sodium (as sodium chloride) 234 mg 10%
Potassium (as potassium citrate)107 mg 100% 2%

L-Citrulline 5,000 mg **
L-Taurine 1,500 mg **
Glycerol Powder (standerdized to 65% Glycerol)(GlycerPump™) 1,500mg**
Caffeine Anhydrous 225 mg**
L-Theanine 200 mg**
2-Aminoisoheptane 120mg**
DMAE DL-Bitartrate (Dimethylethanolamine DL-Bitartrate) 100 mg**
Hordenine Hydrochloride 60mg**
N-Methyl Tyramine Hydrochloride 50mg**
Black Pepper Fruit Extract (BioPerine®) 10mg**
Boron (as Boron Glycinate Complex (Bororganic Glycine) 5mg**


Any recommendations of new products that have not been mentioned on here before?


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## rmtt

Kindlife said:


> I usually stay away from the stims. Just some Cialis and injectable anadrol and I'm good to go. If I need a pik me up I prefer modafinil.


I'm sensitive to stimulants. Most of my Preworkout stuff consists of "pump / vasodilator" products.

I typically buy in bulk and mix my own as it's cheaper!



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## Elvia1023

rmtt said:


> I'm sensitive to stimulants. Most of my Preworkout stuff consists of "pump / vasodilator" products.
> 
> I typically buy in bulk and mix my own as it's cheaper!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk



What are you using now pre workout? I used to experiment and come up with some crazy pump protocols but they are not needed. As you know as little as 10mg tadalafil and 4g citrulline (or 7g cm) could do wonders for pumps. Synthelator has given me the craziest pumps and vascularity out of 1 product though. Even 2ml synthelator can be crazy for pumps. Add in some slin, tadalafil, adrol, carbs, water etc and it can get too much.

Have you ever tried 5%'s Full as Fuck?


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## Elvia1023

I have ordered a few products and should have them soon. 2 (1 is a sample) very well rated products but I doubt most (or even anyone) have heard of them on here. I hadn't heard of either and was just scanning a UK site and came across them. I will post about them when I receive. The other product I bought is one I have used before but I really like it so figured try it again. It's 5%'s 5150 and I ordered passion fruit flavour. It gets mixed reviews but it felt great to me so I was happy to get it again. I don't know how the other 2 will be but I know that is good so I will have something good to fall back on. I am having a clean out and throwing most of my tubs away as many have hardened up. I also gave Mesomorph away to a friend as I didn't like it.


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## Elvia1023

I received my pre workouts. I decided to just get a trial of one as it was £60 to buy and after all the other stuff I had ordered I figured go easy. It's just capsules and is an energy product and get rated very highly. It's called Hydrazine and contains:

*Hydrapharm Hydrazine* 60 capsules 
Serving size: 1 capsule 
Servings per container: 60 

Amount Per Serving %DV** 

Hydrazine blend 700mg * 
Bauhinia Purpurea Extract (leaf and pod), Cacao Extract (fruit), Caffeine Anhydrous, Cymbidium Goeringii Extract (whole plant), Kigelia Africana Extract (fruit).

The second product I have is more of the same but a powdered product and is called Excelsior by Imperial Nutrition. This wasn't cheap either at £44. The ingredient list is nothing special but it gest rated very highly and it's meant to be very strong so I figured why not 

*Imperial Nutrition Excelsior* 30 Servings Fruit Cooler 
Serving Size: 1 scoop (6g) 
Servings Per Container: 30 

Amount Per Serving %DV* 

Propietary Blend 5.3g * 
L-Citrulline     
Trimethylglycine     
Kigelia Africana Extract (fruit)     
Caffeine Anhydrous     
Bauhinia Purpurea     
Bitter Orange Extract (fruit)     
Octopamine     
Hawthorne Extract (fruit)     

* Daily Value Not Established 
Other Ingredients: Malic acid, Sucralose, Citric Acid, Natural & Artificial flavours, Silica, FD&C Red #40. 

Directions For Use
Take 1-2 scoops before working out. 

I also ordered 5150 which I know is great and that contains:

*5% Nutrition 5150* 375g Passion Fruit 
Serving Size:12.5g 
Servings Per Container: 30 Servings 

Amount Per Serving %DV** 

Vitamin B3 (as niacin) 30 mg 150% 

Vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin) 1,000 mcg 16667% 

L-Citrulline 4,000 mg ** 

Beta Alanine (CarnoSyn) 2,500 mg ** 

L-Taurine 2,000 mg ** 

N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine 750 mg ** 

Choline Bitartrate 500 mg ** 

STIM-CRAZY CAFFEINE COMPLEX 470 mg ** 
Caffeine Anhydrous, Dicaffeine Malate, Caffeine (from Green Tea (Leaf)), Yerba Mate Extract (Leaf), Guarana Extract 22% (Seed), Green Coffee Bean Extract (seed)   % 

**Daily Values Not Established     

Ingredients: Natural Flavours, Citric Acid, Sucralose, Silicone Dioxide & Red #40


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## Elvia1023

I had a 2 serving sample (2 caps) of hydrazine. It states one serving is 1 cap. When I read the reviews everyone was stating they took 1 cap and how strong it was. However I read a couple that had used 2 caps. The fact it is a proprietary blend made it hard to know how many to take. If I had a full tub I would have just took 1. Then I watch a review on you-tube and he says he needed 2 caps so I went with that as I didn't want to waste it and get the best effect without taking too much. They all state it takes approx 30 mins to kick in and it's very steady and long lasting and the word smooth is used a lot. The common theme in all the reviews is the intense focus the product brings. 

 I take 2 caps and walk to the gym and on the way it hits me much faster than stated in other reviews. This was the most intense focus I have felt in a very long time. It was crazy so I couldn't help but think wow I could be on to something here. I get to the gym and it's great then over time everything simply faded and that's it. I was very disappointed. It's still very good and I am sure many will love it but after such an intense start it was a big disappointment. Definitely not worth the high price especially if you only get 30 servings from the tub. Well people buy energy drinks for more so maybe it is but definitely a disappoinment for me as I expected more. I would still give 2 caps a 7.5-8/10.

 Now onto the Excelsior. It states 1-2 scoops so I went with 2 scoops as I have used some strong products recently. So far this is incredible but I have only used it once. I was already so worked up for the gym I need to use it more to fully gauge it's effectiveness. But so far it's great and I had the most amazing training session. Although I did start feeling ill mid session but I don't know if thats due to the product or the simple fact I destroyed myself in the gym. I will know more once I use it a few more times. So far an easy 9/10.


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## Elvia1023

Excelsior is great but it's unlike any I have used. The energy stays with me for so long. I gave it to my mate (2 scoops) who is a stimulant junkie and he took it at 11am and he said he couldn't sleep until past 2am. I have been doing nights recently and made the mistake of using it at 10pm (2 scoops). I was literally wide awake at 8am thinking shall I just stay up now  Don't let me put you off though. It's a great product just make sure you dose it fairly early on. It states 1-2 scoops on the back and I have used 2 scoops a few times. But I find 1.5 scoops feels very similar so 2 aren't really needed. In fact for most 1 scoop would be plenty. 

I would probably give it an 8.5 or 9 out of 10. I have had some amazing/crazy workouts on it. As I mentioned earlier it also makes me feel very happy which is rare and one of the reasons I stated it's very different to other products. In fact due to that effect I would give it a 9/10. On closer inspection of the ingredients it contains something fairly rare in preworkouts called octopamine. This is a highly potent TAAR agonist like phenethylamine and it's know for causing increased empathy and euphoria. One of the main mechanisms it does this by is it's effects on norepinephrine.

Excelsior also contains Bauhinia Purpurea and Hawhorne Extract. Both of these ingredients have been shown to possibly increase euphoria so they could be adding to the overall effect.

My 5150 feels different to the last tub. In the past I never thought powders would degrade so much but since using all these pre workouts I know for a fact it happens. Some of my older products were the powder starts going hard and in clumps never feel as strong. 5150 is still good though. I want to try 5%'s new product called Kill It Reloaded.

Tonight I dosed 2 scoops of NO BULL by Musclemeds. The powder has started going bad but 2 scoops is ok for me. My workout was fantastic even if I had to stay on machines due to my lower back. I still pushed it super hard. It's been a few hours and I am still wired so 2 scoops was probably a bit too much.


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## Sub7percent

So my preworkout has been this for a while and it’s been real good to me. 

10g cittruline malate
12.5mg ephedrine 
200mg caffeine
1mg nicotine (gum)

Intra it’s 50g HBCD with 20g EAA

I don’t always use ephedrine but always use the caffeine and nicotine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elvia1023

Sub7percent said:


> So my preworkout has been this for a while and it’s been real good to me.
> 
> 10g cittruline malate
> 12.5mg ephedrine
> 200mg caffeine
> 1mg nicotine (gum)
> 
> Intra it’s 50g HBCD with 20g EAA
> 
> I don’t always use ephedrine but always use the caffeine and nicotine.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Simple but effective. I love cm myself. I have never tried nicotine gum but hear it is very useful especially when dieting.


----------



## dnab87

Why the nicotine gum pre? I used it the last 2 weeks of prep. It does help with appetite.


----------



## Elvia1023

dnab87 said:


> Why the nicotine gum pre? I used it the last 2 weeks of prep. It does help with appetite.



Nicotine has stimulant properties. Many get a boost of energy and added focus from it.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been meaning to update this thread for ages  I have forgotten a lot of the details I was going to post  I will add more to this post over the next few days. I need to post a revised list as well. I bought Nutrabio's PRE, SAN's Fierce Domination and Dymatize's Pre w.o.

Nutrabio's PRE is a great product full of useful ingredients at effective doses. I need to use it a few more times but I am thinking 8.5/10. It's what I call a complete pre workout but it just misses that wow factor.

SAN's Fierce Domination is another good one. Nice energy and feel and good pumps. I use 2 scoops of that. I am thinking 8/10 but I also need to use that a few more times as I have only used it once in the last 3 weeks.

Dymatize's Pre w.o. I used awhile back and it felt ok. I used it again the other day and I felt awful from it. My gf even tried it and felt exactly the same. I will try it again but it's gonna be a low score even though on paper it looks good. I would probably say a 5/10 but I will try it again to access it better.

I have also just ordered 2 new products and should get them on Monday so I will post more on that next week. Has anyone tried any good new pre workouts recently?


----------



## ucsumma

Elvia1023 said:


> I have been meaning to update this thread for ages  I have forgotten a lot of the details I was going to post  I will add more to this post over the next few days. I need to post a revised list as well. I bought Nutrabio's PRE, SAN's Fierce Domination and Dymatize's Pre w.o.
> 
> 
> 
> Nutrabio's PRE is a great product full of useful ingredients at effective doses. I need to use it a few more times but I am thinking 8.5/10. It's what I call a complete pre workout but it just misses that wow factor.
> 
> 
> 
> SAN's Fierce Domination is another good one. Nice energy and feel and good pumps. I use 2 scoops of that. I am thinking 8/10 but I also need to use that a few more times as I have only used it once in the last 3 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> Dymatize's Pre w.o. I used awhile back and it felt ok. I used it again the other day and I felt awful from it. My gf even tried it and felt exactly the same. I will try it again but it's gonna be a low score even though on paper it looks good. I would probably say a 5/10 but I will try it again to access it better.
> 
> 
> 
> I have also just ordered 2 new products and should get them on Monday so I will post more on that next week. Has anyone tried any good new pre workouts recently?





I'm on my 10th tub of Convict. 

I'm massively stim-tolerant and 600mg caffeine and/or 75+mg DMAA doesn't even phase me too much. 

The two ingredients I love are Noopept (which is hard to find these days - let me know if anyone has a connect!) and DMHA. 

I'm not associated with the company in any way, just sharing something that I've found works for me. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AGGRO

Elvia1023 said:


> I have been meaning to update this thread for ages  I have forgotten a lot of the details I was going to post  I will add more to this post over the next few days. I need to post a revised list as well. I bought Nutrabio's PRE, SAN's Fierce Domination and Dymatize's Pre w.o.
> 
> Nutrabio's PRE is a great product full of useful ingredients at effective doses. I need to use it a few more times but I am thinking 8.5/10. It's what I call a complete pre workout but it just misses that wow factor.
> 
> SAN's Fierce Domination is another good one. Nice energy and feel and good pumps. I use 2 scoops of that. I am thinking 8/10 but I also need to use that a few more times as I have only used it once in the last 3 weeks.
> 
> Dymatize's Pre w.o. I used awhile back and it felt ok. I used it again the other day and I felt awful from it. My gf even tried it and felt exactly the same. I will try it again but it's gonna be a low score even though on paper it looks good. I would probably say a 5/10 but I will try it again to access it better.
> 
> I have also just ordered 2 new products and should get them on Monday so I will post more on that next week. Has anyone tried any good new pre workouts recently?



I recently tried Nutrabio pre and think it is great. It's made a big difference to my training. I noticed that dymatize one was rated 9/10 on bb.com.


----------



## Victory

AGGRO said:


> I recently tried Nutrabio pre and think it is great. It's made a big difference to my training. I noticed that dymatize one was rated 9/10 on bb.com.



The Nutrabio product looks good. I will try something as I could do with the energy and added pumps.


----------



## Elvia1023

I need to get this thread updated. I have many to add to my list. In the last few weeks I have mainly been using Re1gn and Kill it Reloaded both mixed with Full as Fuck. Re1gn can hit me differently each time but is always good for me. I used a couple of samples ages ago and can't even think of the names so they will get left out. I do have a new tub but waiting to try it out as I need to get rid of some of my other powders. The new one is called Goku Gains by Furious Formulations. I didn't even know who Furious Pete was until after I bought it. I had heard the name but googled him to find out. Here are the ingredients...


----------



## SURGE

I might give excelsior a try. It's hard to find online.


----------



## Jtooswol

Hyde!


----------



## Elvia1023

I tried Blackstone Labs Dust-X the other day. All my pre workouts are full tubs but this was just from a friend. He measures everything and said the scoop was well over 1 serving so just weighed the powder and bought it in a container for me. So I think I had less than 1 scoop. I was very impressed and it gave that very noticeable DMHA feeling. It contains 150mg 2-aminoisoheptane so a decent dose and that is combined with 350mg Caffeine Anhydrous. Another thing that stands out is a fairly large 300mcg Huperzia Serrate dosage. All in all great focus, energy and sense of well being. I can't comment on the pumps as I dosed adrol/dbol pre workout for the first time in my new cycle 

Tonight I was really tired and wasn't going to train but decided to go. I took 2 scoops of Re1gn and because of my tired state it made me feel amazing. Lot's of clean energy and I simply felt it more as I needed it tonight. I had a great workout and felt good. Without it my workout wouldn't have been half as good as I wasn't very motivated before it kicked in.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been using Excelsior at 1 scoop or 1 scoop and about 1/6 and it's great. Somedays feel better than others though. I tend to get that crazy euphoria when I go closer to 1.5 scoops. I usually add 1/2-1 scoop of Full as Fuck as well for crazy pumps. 

 I used Nutrex Outlift Amped at 1.5 scoops and that is a solid pre workout and I always feel good on it.

 One day I used 1 1/4 scoops of Kill it Reloaded and it didn't feel that good. 

 A short break from preworkouts over Christmas will do my mind/body good though.

 I definitely feel like an alternative to Excelsior so I can rotate them. Instead of something brand new I would rather pick one I know will be great. 
 Looking back at everything I have used if I had to pick one right now to order again it would be Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha or Hyphymud 2.0. I will probably pick up a tub of D-Stunner Alpha over the next few weeks. The original was banned but I never got to use that but heard it was amazing. I assume it was because the newer version (Alpha) is a great product.


----------



## BigDave

I have tried TrueNutritions pre-workout and Pump Juice Extreme and MA Supps MA-Pump all were good. MA-Pump sort of clumps but does not have any stimulants.


----------



## Elvia1023

I originally wrote "Then I tried 2 scoops of Craze (label states 1-2 scoops) and it was surprisingly clean. I was thinking maybe 2 scoops would be too much but not at all. Very clean energy and good focus but nothing spectacular." So for the price and with competitor products I figured it is not worth it.

I used it yesterday but more on that below. First I want to mention even some of the best ones sometimes don't hit the same way. Sometimes I take 1 scoop of Excelsior and it's nothing incredible so finding the right dose for each day can be important. The label states 1-2 scoops but I usually stay on the low side of that. From now on I will go with 1.5 scoops as that hits me very hard and I get all the benefits everytime. I have also taken a lot of DMHA products recently so that is a factor in things but I regularly go days with no stimulants at all so my sensitivity is still ok. 

Everything has an ideal dose for everyone and that can change due to diet, tolerance etc. Anyway last night I was gonna try 3 scoops of Rize as 2 was very smooth but last second figured 2.5 scoops would be more sensible. I dosed it and on the way to the gym I felt incredible. That lasted during training but by the end of a hard leg workout (approx 2 hours) I was destroyed. After I ate I felt much better and I was full of energy for the rest of the night. So whilst 2.5 scoops is not cheap the effects were great for me.

In the last week I have used 2 news ones...

Condemned Labz Convict (225mg DMHA etc)
Black Magic BZRK (DMHA etc)


----------



## nspaletta

I use right now BAR Nutrition Energize Pre workout: 
6g citrulline
small dose caffeine
nootropics 
1g agmatine
1g arginine

Gives a hell of a pump at the gym


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been doing a little reading on DMHA and it's various aliases. You basically have synthetic and natural forms. Some of the terms used on the labels include dimethylhexylamine, octodrine, 2-aminoisoheptane, juglans regia extract, kigelia africana and walnut bark extract (etc).

The reason I started reading up is I was interested in it's possible effects on blood glucose. Fact is when I use it pre workout I have been going hypo post workout if I don't eat straightaway. This is obviously without any insulin usage and even when using a reasonable amount (40-60g) of intra carbs. The fact I train very hard and for long periods is the biggest contributor to me feeling like this post wotkout. It's happened before but with the addition of DMHA it's happening everytime I don't eat straightaway post workout. 

Diabetics obviously respond differently to none diabetics. Nevertheless I have found some interesting info. Most notably in studies Juglans regia extract at 200mg daily has been shown to significantly decrease FBG, HbA1c, total cholesterol and triglyceride levels. There is much more info and feel free to check out for yourselves but I figured I would highlight it.


----------



## Elvia1023

Elvia1023 said:


> I have been doing a little reading on DMHA and it's various aliases. You basically have synthetic and natural forms. Some of the terms used on the labels include dimethylhexylamine, octodrine, 2-aminoisoheptane, juglans regia extract, kigelia africana and walnut bark extract (etc).
> 
> The reason I started reading up is I was interested in it's possible effects on blood glucose. Fact is when I use it pre workout I have been going hypo post workout if I don't eat straightaway. This is obviously without any insulin usage and even when using a reasonable amount (40-60g) of intra carbs. The fact I train very hard and for long periods is the biggest contributor to me feeling like this post wotkout. It's happened before but with the addition of DMHA it's happening everytime I don't eat straightaway post workout.
> 
> Diabetics obviously respond differently to none diabetics. Nevertheless I have found some interesting info. Most notably in studies Juglans regia extract at 200mg daily has been shown to significantly decrease FBG, HbA1c, total cholesterol and triglyceride levels. There is much more info and feel free to check out for yourselves but I figured I would highlight it.



After reading the above I should make it more clear I am not using this has evidence for me going hypo. Those change were over a 3 month period when using 200mg Juglans regia per day. Nevertheless still very interesting data especially if you are using DMHA pre workouts most days per week. I also forgot to mention that there were no adverse effects including any liver or kidney damage. I still think DMHA is definitely having a contributing effect but the main reason are my fairly long and hard workouts that can deplete me. The DHMA products also stay with me a long time which can be positive and negative. I definitely feel shorter cycles are needed for these stronger stimulants so I will probably have a 2 weeks off all DHMA based products soon.


----------



## Elvia1023

I used Dymatize's Pre tonight. I haven't marked it officially yet as I have only used it a couple of times. I wasn't sure about it in the past but it felt great tonight. I know one of the main reasons for that and let me explain...

I have been using a lot of stronger stimulant based preworkouts recently and they feel amazing in the gym but many times I finish my workout and I always feel destroyed. I train hard but I know that's just a small factor as I trained brutally hard tonight and felt great afterwards. A lot of times I literally struggle to walk home after the gym as I am that out of it. They can also elevate your heart rate so much your breathing is effected. A few times I have wanted to get a sauna post workout recently and it would be horrible due to me being so out of breath. I love the focus DMHA gives but it can have these negatives. Amp citrate is another great one but it can do the same. I have never really responded that well to DMAA and it would make me feel sick very often. DHMA is generally much more smoother for me than the others and my fav out of the 3. Although on all of them I can have good/bad days depending upon dose, diet and training etc. 

The likes of Excelsior makes me feel so euphoric so it's amazing I just have to be careful with my dose. The bad thing is I only get that crazy euphoric feeling at higher doses so it's a win/lose situation. Many of the others I have used recently bring great focus/energy but it's not usually without negatives. Anyway tonight it felt good and I had nice energy, great pumps and no negatives.

I personally like the beta alanine tingles and this preworkout hits you hard as it's dosed at 3.2g. So many products claim 2-3.2g on their label but I never feel a thing. But within 5 mins of dosing my whole face was tingling. It also contains a lot of ingredients that assist pumps/fullness. My intra shake covers that but the addition only adds to things. Here are the full ingredients...


----------



## Elvia1023

I tried Dymatize's Pre again tonight and it was exactly the same. I recall when I tried 1 scoop the other week I thought it was quite weak. I don't think I posted about it though. It just shows you it's always worth trying again. I dosed 1 1/3 scoops (same as yesterday) and I had nice clean energy, felt good and had a great pump. No breathing issues and was fine doing cardio (rowing machine) and in the shower afterwards. When I got home I felt like training again I felt really good so I am pleased. No heavy crash like some other products. I think it's the high dose of teacrine that is making the difference. I seem to respond well to it. I will try another product next gym day (likely 2moro) to change things up.


----------



## Tank211

ucsumma said:


> I'm on my 10th tub of Convict.
> 
> I'm massively stim-tolerant and 600mg caffeine and/or 75+mg DMAA doesn't even phase me too much.
> 
> The two ingredients I love are Noopept (which is hard to find these days - let me know if anyone has a connect!) and DMHA.
> 
> I'm not associated with the company in any way, just sharing something that I've found works for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I will second this! Convict is probably one of the strongest  preworkouts I have ever used. I actually don’t use it every time I train....I normally save it for leg days! It’s definitely worth giving a try.


----------



## AGGRO

This looks good. High dose of citrulline malate but the caffeine isn't too high which is ideal for me.



Elvia1023 said:


> I used Dymatize's Pre tonight. I haven't marked it officially yet as I have only used it a couple of times. I wasn't sure about it in the past but it felt great tonight. I know one of the main reasons for that and let me explain...
> 
> I have been using a lot of stronger stimulant based preworkouts recently and they feel amazing in the gym but many times I finish my workout and I always feel destroyed. I train hard but I know that's just a small factor as I trained brutally hard tonight and felt great afterwards. A lot of times I literally struggle to walk home after the gym as I am that out of it. They can also elevate your heart rate so much your breathing is effected. A few times I have wanted to get a sauna post workout recently and it would be horrible due to me being so out of breath. I love the focus DMHA gives but it can have these negatives. Amp citrate is another great one but it can do the same. I have never really responded that well to DMAA and it would make me feel sick very often. DHMA is generally much more smoother for me than the others and my fav out of the 3. Although on all of them I can have good/bad days depending upon dose, diet and training etc.
> 
> The likes of Excelsior makes me feel so euphoric so it's amazing I just have to be careful with my dose. The bad thing is I only get that crazy euphoric feeling at higher doses so it's a win/lose situation. Many of the others I have used recently bring great focus/energy but it's not usually without negatives. Anyway tonight it felt good and I had nice energy, great pumps and no negatives.
> 
> I personally like the beta alanine tingles and this preworkout hits you hard as it's dosed at 3.2g. So many products claim 2-3.2g on their label but I never feel a thing. But within 5 mins of dosing my whole face was tingling. It also contains a lot of ingredients that assist pumps/fullness. My intra shake covers that but the addition only adds to things. Here are the full ingredients...


----------



## AGGRO

ucsumma said:


> I'm on my 10th tub of Convict.
> 
> I'm massively stim-tolerant and 600mg caffeine and/or 75+mg DMAA doesn't even phase me too much.
> 
> The two ingredients I love are Noopept (which is hard to find these days - let me know if anyone has a connect!) and DMHA.
> 
> I'm not associated with the company in any way, just sharing something that I've found works for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This one looks very strong. That's the problem for some for me. If I 1/2-3/4 scoop I am not getting enough of the non stimulant ingredients.


----------



## Elvia1023

I haven't updated in awhile but wanted to go over a few things.

- I don't like Condemned Labz Convict. On paper for someone like me it looks incredible. I always feel out of breath on it even with 1 scoop. However it doesn't feel strong to me at the same time and doesn't give the focus and energy other product's do. I have tried it a few times and it actually worsens my workouts which is strange for a pre workout. HYDE was very similar for me but Convict is loaded with stuff not just high caffeine. Most seem to love it though and it's rated very highly.

- I ordered another tub of Dymatize's Pre workout because I love it. It doesn't give the euphoria of Excelsior but it has no negative side effects for me. I feel great on it every time. Great pumps and energy everytime. I have gone up to 1.5 scoops and no crash and just tonnes of long lasting energy.

- Excelsior is great but I have mixed feeling about it now. Sometimes I take it and feel amazing/euphoric and other times the complete opposite. I also tend to crash from it and go hypo post workout if I don't eat carbs straightaway. That's why I stopped doing 1.5 scoops as the crash was worse at that dose. It's feels party drug like to me which is weird to state but very true. When I train I don't have my phone with me and I just get on with it and train hard. However Excelsior often makes me feel so happy and I want to chat to people which is bizarre. If you are ever going out and feel tired excelsior would be worth trying. Maybe I should tell all my coke head mates to try it on the weekend  I used it tonight with great effect and destroyed back.

- Generally I want to stay away from DHMA products for awhile. I will use excelsior every so often but staying away from the others I have. Most days I go with Dymatize's Pre that just uses caffeine and teacrine as it's main stimualnts. I also use 5150 occasional as well and it's always a solid product.


----------



## Wolverinex

I am interested in finding a pre-workout with some stimulant combination that actually affects me in some way. I feel nothing energy-wise from most pre-workouts. High caffeine doesn't cut it.

Side not - partying in college may have caused me to have a high tolerance to 'stimulants' but that was MANY years ago!


----------



## Elvia1023

Wolverinex said:


> I am interested in finding a pre-workout with some stimulant combination that actually affects me in some way. I feel nothing energy-wise from most pre-workouts. High caffeine doesn't cut it.
> 
> Side not - partying in college may have caused me to have a high tolerance to 'stimulants' but that was MANY years ago!



What have you tried recently?


----------



## Wolverinex

Elvia1023 said:


> What have you tried recently?



Well to be honest I kinda gave up. I have been using the classic caffeine ephedrine and aspirin crushed up in a mortar and pestle. Wal-mart has ephedrine (Bronkaid) in the sulphate form. I mix these with some flavored sugar free drink like those Dasani squeeze bottle water enhancers. I have to be careful at the rate I drink it, If i chug it it will trigger some serious hypoglycemia.

I was just curious if there was something good that hasn't been banned yet


----------



## Elvia1023

Wolverinex said:


> Well to be honest I kinda gave up. I have been using the classic caffeine ephedrine and aspirin crushed up in a mortar and pestle. Wal-mart has ephedrine (Bronkaid) in the sulphate form. I mix these with some flavored sugar free drink like those Dasani squeeze bottle water enhancers. I have to be careful at the rate I drink it, If i chug it it will trigger some serious hypoglycemia.
> 
> I was just curious if there was something good that hasn't been banned yet



I would try Excelsior by Imperial Nutrition. The focus and euphoria you get off that is crazy. It states 1-2 scoops but 1.5 scoops is more than enough for me. I have posted about it in my previous posts. For reference I can take 3-600mg caffeine with no issues so my tolerance is quite high. It's definitely worth trying out if you have a high tolerance to caffeine.


----------



## Elvia1023

I used Black Magic Bzrk the other day which I was told contains 200mg (may have been just over) of DMHA. I used it a few times over the last few weeks and it's a solid product. Great focus, energy and pumps. It also tastes great which is rare (peach ring flavour). After a few usages I would give it an 8-8.5/10. Here are it's ingredients...


----------



## Wolverinex

Elvia1023 said:


> I would try Excelsior by Imperial Nutrition. The focus and euphoria you get off that is crazy. It states 1-2 scoops but 1.5 scoops is more than enough for me. I have posted about it in my previous posts. For reference I can take 3-600mg caffeine with no issues so my tolerance is quite high. It's definitely worth trying out if you have a high tolerance to caffeine.



Awesome thanks for the recommendation! My tolerance to caffeine is also high, it has almost no effect on me. I almost use the ECA stack as a matter of routine rather than actual effect.

Seems like most of the sites with that product are not US, I think I found one US based carrier out of NY


----------



## Elvia1023

Wolverinex said:


> Awesome thanks for the recommendation! My tolerance to caffeine is also high, it has almost no effect on me. I almost use the ECA stack as a matter of routine rather than actual effect.
> 
> Seems like most of the sites with that product are not US, I think I found one US based carrier out of NY



Yes it's a rare one for some unknown reason. The company is American but it's mainly sold in the UK. There is 1 US site I have seen so I imagine you are looking at that. Give it a try and let me know how you find it. Try to have 3 days off stimulants beforehand just to reset you a little. I have taken it most days for 2 weeks and it's effects stay the same. Always good to have a short break before usage though. I use it sparingly now as I am trying to stay away from DMHA products. I would recommend using it just on training days so you have regular breaks. Update me on here if you can.


----------



## M3rlin117

Elvia1023 said:


> I used Dymatize's Pre tonight. I haven't marked it officially yet as I have only used it a couple of times. I wasn't sure about it in the past but it felt great tonight. I know one of the main reasons for that and let me explain...
> 
> I have been using a lot of stronger stimulant based preworkouts recently and they feel amazing in the gym but many times I finish my workout and I always feel destroyed. I train hard but I know that's just a small factor as I trained brutally hard tonight and felt great afterwards. A lot of times I literally struggle to walk home after the gym as I am that out of it. They can also elevate your heart rate so much your breathing is effected. A few times I have wanted to get a sauna post workout recently and it would be horrible due to me being so out of breath. I love the focus DMHA gives but it can have these negatives. Amp citrate is another great one but it can do the same. I have never really responded that well to DMAA and it would make me feel sick very often. DHMA is generally much more smoother for me than the others and my fav out of the 3. Although on all of them I can have good/bad days depending upon dose, diet and training etc.
> 
> The likes of Excelsior makes me feel so euphoric so it's amazing I just have to be careful with my dose. The bad thing is I only get that crazy euphoric feeling at higher doses so it's a win/lose situation. Many of the others I have used recently bring great focus/energy but it's not usually without negatives. Anyway tonight it felt good and I had nice energy, great pumps and no negatives.
> 
> I personally like the beta alanine tingles and this preworkout hits you hard as it's dosed at 3.2g. So many products claim 2-3.2g on their label but I never feel a thing. But within 5 mins of dosing my whole face was tingling. It also contains a lot of ingredients that assist pumps/fullness. My intra shake covers that but the addition only adds to things. Here are the full ingredients...



I could never handle 300mg of caffeine 100mg and I’m twitching all over the gym :action-smiley-030:


----------



## gunz78

this may sound crazy but for me insulin and carbs... know what your doing ofcourse!!


----------



## M3rlin117

Best pre workout 
a nice size dab(420)
genius pre


----------



## Elvia1023

I took Driven Sports RIZE yesterday. Just over 2 scoops (label recommends 1-2 scoops). It's almost frustrating because like other times for the first 30 mins I felt euphoric and on top of the world. I take preworkouts before leaving and walked to the gym with my gf and felt incredible. Then it soon faded away and I felt wired but not in a great way. You have to play about with this one a bit. Still a good product you just have find your right dose with it (heard anything from 1-3 scoops from people). With all the competition out there though I don't recommend this one especially due to the high price.

Tonight I tried one of my all time favs. That was just over 1 scoop of 5%'s 5150. I felt great this time and had an amazing workout. Solid energy, focus and pumps with no crash. Contains a lot of caffeine but no DMHA/DMAA which is good for me. It's been 2 hours since I got back and I feel good and relaxed. I rate this higher than 5%'s newest preworkout Kill It Reloaded.


----------



## Sandpig

M3rlin117 said:


> I could never handle 300mg of caffeine 100mg and I’m twitching all over the gym :action-smiley-030:


I don't get why some of these companies are putting that much in their products. I've seen some with 350 and maybe more.


----------



## austrianoak

Sandpig said:


> I don't get why some of these companies are putting that much in their products. I've seen some with 350 and maybe more.



Yeah some of these companies are definitely taking it too far with the caffeine. I see it often around here, kids (or just newbies to lifting) buy their first pre-workout supps containing like 3-400 mg of caffeine and use that stuff 4-5 times a week.. I know AAS isn't the best thing for your body, but I can't imagine that amount of caffeine (and most of them still consume coffee or energy drinks other times of the day) being good for you over the long haul either.


----------



## LACBodybuilder

I used to wake up and drink a bang, have an energy drink midday, and then two scoop a Preworkout. Felt like shit nonstop and always wanted to sleep. Lately I skip all energy drinks and do one scoop of a Preworkout before I train with no more than 200mg caffeine. More concerned with the other no stim ingredients. Currently using PreKaged and used ghost before hand. Always switch it up after a tub to keep it fresh. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## DeathDefier

Preworkout is a large black coffee lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## striffe

Recently a strong coffee and 10g citrulline malate.


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## jdup2019

Ephedrine and Caffeine pre-wkt.  All the other stuff waste of money.


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## jdup2019

jdup2019 said:


> Ephedrine and Caffeine pre-wkt.  All the other stuff waste of money.



And l-citrulline is good to


----------



## Elvia1023

Today I used 1.5 scoops of Nutrabio's Pre so a big dose of caffeine. It felt good and I had a great workout. My 5% Nutrition's 5150 has about 1 serving left and that is one of my favs. Dymatize's preworkout doesn't have the same kick it once had but still a solid product. 

I used Goku Gain's again and it definitely drives down my blood glucose. I crashed hard from it and went to bed after eating cereal. Literally 3 hours after taking 350mg caffeine plus all it's other stims (including DMHA) I was exhausted. I woke up in the middle of the night going hypo. It's only ever DMHA preworkouts that do this to me.

I am definitely in need of some new products and I plan to order a few very soon. I will try some brand new products and will update the thread with which ones I pick.


----------



## Victory

Has anyone used Prepare by JP Nutrition?


----------



## Elvia1023

I have been using My Protein's caffeinated EAA's recently. It's a very old tub and I believe they have changed the formula. I use 4 scoops intra which is 300mg caffeine and it works great. I haven't tried a big serving pre workout but it could be used as one if needed. Just straight caffeine but it feels strong. Drinking it intra is a great way to keep energy levels high even after your workout. So ideal for guys who go to work afterwards or just need the energy. Sometimes if I take a pre workout and train really hard my energy levels crash post workout and not because of the crash from the stimulants but a combination of factors. I have to be careful not taking these EAA's too late as the energy really stays with me and one night I couldn't sleep.

Tomorrow I will go over all the new products I have ordered and plan to try out soon. It's a combination of pump only, nootropics and high stimulant so a good mix of different things.


----------



## Elvia1023

Victory said:


> Has anyone used Prepare by JP Nutrition?



I was going to order it but it went out of stock. It looks really good but more of a pump formula. I know one person who has used it and he didn't rate it. Although guys taking it expecting some major energy/focus are going to be disappointed. For pumps it should be great. I will try it in the next few months and review it in this thread.


----------



## Elvia1023

Here is a list of the products I will be trying out in the near future with the ingredient panels listed.

*Alpha Lion Komodo Pump*








*Stimumax Black Edition* 

6000mg Citrulline malate

3200mg beta alanine

1000mg nac l tyrosine

250mg caffeine

200mg juglans Regis whole fruit extract - 10-1 water extract

200mg Keiglia African (Sausage Tree Extract)



*De Novo Utopia*









*Olympus Labs I Am Suprem3*









*Innovapharm MVPre2.0*

Citrulline Malate – 8000mg
Beta Alanine – 3200mg
GlycerPump – 2000mg
S7 – 50mg
Choline Bitartrate – 1000mg
N-acetyle L Tyrosine – 500mg
Caffeine Anhydrous – 350mg
BioPhytum Extract – 150mg
Eria Jarensis – 100mg
Huperzine A – 150mcg


----------



## AGGRO

Komodo pump looks good. When will you try it?


----------



## Elvia1023

AGGRO said:


> Komodo pump looks good. When will you try it?



Sorry I missed this. There has been a problem with my delivery (long story). Not gonna have it for another 2 weeks or so. Not sure what I will try first but perhaps the low-no stim products. So if I do Komodo will be first and I will update this thread when I do.

One ingredient to look out for and the main reason I bought Komodo is S7. It's supposed to be amazing for pumps.


----------



## odin

Elvia1023 said:


> Sorry I missed this. There has been a problem with my delivery (long story). Not gonna have it for another 2 weeks or so. Not sure what I will try first but perhaps the low-no stim products. So if I do Komodo will be first and I will update this thread when I do.
> 
> One ingredient to look out for and the main reason I bought Komodo is S7. It's supposed to be amazing for pumps.



Have you tried it now? I am also in look for a good pump product.


----------



## Elvia1023

I have some Scivation Quake from ages ago. The tub is nearly empty and I figured lets get rid of it. So I dosed just over 2 scoops which contains some great ingredients at good doses. It contains some BCAA's which is the reason I dosed it as I am waiting on my amino order so figured anything is a bonus around training. This is a prime example of a product that looks much better on paper and it doesn't really shine in anyway. It's not bad but has no wow factor especially when you only get 10 servings per tub at that dose.


----------



## Elvia1023

odin said:


> Have you tried it now? I am also in look for a good pump product.



My parcel went on a little adventure and has been sent back to the UK. So I haven't tried any of the new ones yet. Although I should receive it very soon. I will update the thread when I do. 1st day I will try Komodo Pump.


----------



## Elvia1023

https://www.nutraingredients-usa.co...trition-range-with-new-NO-boosting-ingredient

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10715762.2017.1390228?journalCode=ifra20

SPECTRA7 has been in a few products in the past but seems to be appearing more and more. It's only 7 different plant extracts but seems to be a good addition to the more known ingredients for "pumps". There isn't loads of data on it but it sounds promising as a safe addition to a pre workout. You can buy it as a standalone (50mg caps) but there is 150mg in komodo pump as well. Granted it's NO increasing powers are likely minimal compared to some nitrates but I will still test it out to see how it performs.


----------



## Dogslime

Vaso blitz is really good for vascularity I take it + creatine mono + noopept and some creatine nitrate pills (APS) + I have an energy mix of taurine caffeine (60mg) and a few other goodies I throw in sometimes as well.


----------



## Viking

Has anyone used axe & sledge ignition switch?


----------



## Dogslime

Dogslime said:


> Vaso blitz is really good for vascularity I take it + creatine mono + noopept and some creatine nitrate pills (APS) + I have an energy mix of taurine caffeine (60mg) and a few other goodies I throw in sometimes as well.



Left out I pop 600mg AlphaGPC and 3mg melatonin with that as well

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3313098/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174513/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22212240


----------



## prototype5

nitraflex works good for me.  Ill still bounce between C4 too just because its cheap at costco.

I just need energy for my workout.  Dont need to feel like Im gacked out


----------



## Elvia1023

Viking said:


> Has anyone used axe & sledge ignition switch?



I haven't used it but have been told it is ok and nothing special. Looking at the ingredient panel that doesn't surprise me.



prototype5 said:


> nitraflex works good for me.  Ill still bounce between C4 too just because its cheap at costco.
> 
> I just need energy for my workout.  Dont need to feel like Im gacked out



Never used c4 even though it's one of the most popular "standard" preworkouts. I was disappointed with Nitraflex but it was still decent. The GAT preworkouts are very similar and I preferred PMP. I haven't tried Psychon yet though (I won't unless I get a sample). If you just need some energy and pumps they are gtg. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone though as there are many better alternatives. Nitraflex in pina colada is probably the nicest pre workout (plus 5%'s 5150) I have ever tasted.


----------



## LTBB

one rep max by BPI is good.  Works effectively.


----------



## Elvia1023

I am finally going to get my supp order. It took ages to go back to the UK. They told me they thought it had got lost and discussed my order and decided they would ship another one to me at cost to them. However just as they had decided the postman come with my returned parcel. They sent it back to be and it come in 2 days but I had it sent somewhere else as I was on holiday. That person is also on holiday now so I have to wait until they are back but I should have it in about 1 week. I think it's been 3 months now. I can't even remember everything I ordered  Not gonna check and just get a surprise when it comes 

I am running very low and just been dosing Driven Sports RIZE or 5%'s Kill It Reloaded. Neither is anything special but decent products. RIZE gives me a great initial high but I crash from it. As a result I have been doing 1 scoop and having 300mg caffeinated aminos during training and making sure I evenly space out the aminos.

2 products that have caught my attention recently are...

*Alpha Lion Free*** Juice*







*Biohack Serum Code – Infl8*


----------



## AM1T

My favorites are:

1.Dr Jekyll -  great pumps, focus, and best for use if lifting a few hrs before bed
2.Lit - Great pumps, focus and energy, high dose citrulline - Itchy skin sometimes but not bad
3. 200-300mg caffeine anhydrous - probably healthier than most pre workouts and dose the job just fine


And always creatine, either 5g of monohydrate or 3g of hcl, along with a lot of water


----------



## Elvia1023

I am going through my updated list but it has taken so long I am going to have to just post this unfinished. I have left some notes and will finish this off tomorrow.

I have been meaning to post in this thread for ages. It's got to the point I have forgotten many things but I will try my best to update my pre workout ratings list including new additions and adjustments. I will make sure I keep it updated more regularly so nothing is lost a long the way. These are just my personal findings but everyone's response is different.

New additions include:

AllMax Nutrition - Impact Igniter
Muscletech Shatter, SX-7, Black Onyx
Imperial Nutrition Excelsior DONE
Hydrapharm Hydrazine   DONE
Nutrabio PRE    DONE
SAN's Fierce ***ination   DONE
Olympus Labs Re1gn DONE
Goku Gains by Furious Formulations
Blackstone Labs Dust-X   DONE
Driven Sports Rize
Condemned Labz Convict DONE
Black Magic BZRK 
5%'s Kill It Reloaded
Dymatize PRE DONE


Adjustments include:


*Imperial Nutrition Excelsior-* where do I start. Over time this went from an 8.5/10 to a 10/10 and back and forth. It's probably the best preworkout I have ever used. However it would sometimes make me feel a bit off but the positives always outweighed the negatives. The energy, focus and euphoria are incredible. It also lasts very long and I would find myself being super productive long after training. As a result this stuff can't be used anywhere near bed time (literally 6 hours at a complete minimum). Many use 1-2 scoops but 1.5 is more than enough for me. The intense euphoria occurs at the higher doses but I don't get any negatives at 1 scoop. At 1 scoop I don't crash and never get over wired but still get great energy and productivity for hours after training. This product is really a 9.5/10 due to the potential negatives but it has to be number 1 so I am going with a 10/10.

*GSN's NitroNOX Pro*- This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to everyone. I would give it a 10/10. Unfortunately this product is no longer available which is a shame.

*Kali Muscle's Hyphy Mud 2.0*- I simply love this product. On paper it looks crap but it makes me feel like a machine. The energy and focus and overall feeling on this product is amazing. I want to give it a 10 but I guess it lacks in pumps so I will give it a 9.5/10.

*Dymatize PRE-* Fantastic product that provides clean energy and great pumps. It doesn't give the euphoria of Excelsior but it has no negative side effects for me. Ideal for someone who can't use strong stimulants such as DMAA and DMHA. It contains a good mix of caffeine (300mg) and teacrine (125mg). I like to use this during my breaks from the stronger stimulants. It deserves 9.5/10.

*5% Nutrition 5150*- This gets mixed reviews but I love it. It's not as strong as many may think but I get great energy, pumps and a euphoric feeling shortly after dosing. It's also one of the nicest pre workouts I have ever tasted (pomegranate flavour). Overall an easy 9/10.

*Olympus Labs Re1gn*- this is a great product. Amazing energy and good pumps. I had some amazing workouts using this and it was very useful on days I was demotivated. It contains some unusual ingredients and I respond great to them. However some (KannaEase for example) may make some people feel sick/off (you have been warned). I would give this an 9/10.

*PRE JYM*- This didn't impress me at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. I call it a complete pre workout and it performs in every sense (pumps, energy, focus, feel) and contains some useful ingredients. I would give it a 9/10.

*Dynamik's Savage Roar*- An excellent pre workout that delivers in every way. Overall a 9/10.

*Musclerage's Limitless*- One of the nicest tasting pre workouts I have tried (Cotton Candy). Nice clean energy with no crash afterwards. One of the best products I have ever used for pumps. Overall 9/10.

*RedCon1 Total War*- A fantastic product and I can tell most would love this. Great for energy, pumps and focus. You can't really go wrong and it's a 9/10.

*BSN's Endo Rush*- I used just a 1 serving sample for this product. It contains some unusual ingredients in the form of euphoria longana and lindera aggregata and these definitely add to it's mental effects. It contains 3g arginine and 3g citrulline malate. Many would state that is not enough but in my experience a very good mix and if they are high quality should produce excellent muscle pumps. Only 2g beta-alanine as CarnoSyn but it must be a very high purity as I felt it loads. This is why I always state ingredient lists are an indication as who knows what exactly is in a product and what is the purity of those ingredients. Great pumps and a nice boost in energy but great focus. The energy stayed and I felt great for hours after using. No jitters or over stimulanted feeling and lot's of clean energy. Something I noticed is the ingredient profile for my sample is different to the one posted online. The product I used does not contain yohimbe plus uses different doses of other ingredients. I would give this 9/10. 

*Ronnie Coleman Yeah Buddy*- This to me is very similar to HYDE (on paper and in effect) but without any negatives. A very strong product I recommend to anyone who is fine with stimulants. Overall an easy 9/10. 

*5% Nutrition's Full as Fuck*- Techinally not really a pre workout but many use it for that so it's worth mentioning. This contains no stimulants so if you want that it is ideal. I used this through the day (perhaps going the beach) or pre workout with caffeine. The pumps and vascularity from this are insane for me. It's much better used on an empty stomach and takes time to build up. An excellent stimulant free pre workout. You could also add a good stimulant like teacrine to it to make a fantastic complete preworkout too. For what it is I give it a 9/10.

*Enhanced Athlete's RAGE-*Berry blast flavour tastes like crap which for pre workout is often a good sign (not always). Lot's of clean energy and great pumps. It's nowhere as strong as some of the other products I have used but so much smoother. This is a really good product for me and gives the ideal energy and focus I need for the gym without over stimulating. I think the ratio of caffeine to DMHA is ideal. I find DMHA is much smoother than DMAA but obviously similar in effect. I would give this 9/10.

*Musclemeds NO BULL*- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feel very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks or so. Overall a 8.5/10.

*Cobra Labs The Curse*- Fantastic product. On paper this doesn't look good at all (very basic). I think it contains 125mg caffeine and 5mg olive leaf extract per scoop. 2 scoops of this should make you a machine in the gym. Definitely recommend if you want something simple but effective. Rating changes with scoops but overall a 8.5/10.

*Ergogenix's Ergoblast*- A great pre workout and felt very different to most. Nothing too powerful but the focus was great. The pumps were incredible on this product. Overall I give it a 8.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust-X*- I only used a 1 serving sample but was very impressed. All in all great focus, energy and sense of well being. I can't comment on pumps as I used dbol/adrol that day as well  I will say 8.5/10.

*Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice Extreme*- Great product and provides clean energy and incredible pumps. If you need a pump product try this one (10/10 for pumps). Overall I rate it an 8.5/10.

*BSN's NO-XPLODE XE EDGE*- It contains a lot of useful ingredients. Whilst some may not be dosed high enough the final effect is a very good one. It performs in all areas and I felt great on it. This was just a sachet so could be better at a higher dose. Overall an 8.5/10.

*Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha*- Great initial surge of energy that lowers quickly but still stays. This product simply makes me feel so euphoric. This is quite a rare thing with pre workouts. Many contain ingredients that should make you feel that way but often they don't. Only a handful of products have given me this feeling and this is one of them. Many should enjoy this product. A solid 8/10.

*Nutrex Outlift Amped*- On paper this looks fantastic but like the original it under performs. It is still very good but I expected more. It's very similar to the original outlift and performs in all areas. I should add the scooper is ridiculous. A perfect example of over designing. They have put a top on it so people can use for water bottles so I get that. But it's so impractical when trying to get powder into the scoop. Not a big deal but worth a mention. I give this 8/10.

*Dorian Yates NOX Pump-* Decent. I used this years ago and it was incredible. This time nowhere as good so the formula must be different (something got banned). Maybe better than decent as with an espresso I am an animal in the gym. This an a single espresso was a fav of mine for a while. With an extra kick this product can score a 9.5/10 but alone it's a solid 8/10.

*Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped*- Probably the strongest pre workout I have ever taken in regards to stimulants. I really enjoyed this and if you like your stimulants definitely try it out. The one area this really stands out in is the added mental focus. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Nutrabio PRE-* Very good product full of useful ingredients at effective doses. It's what I call a complete pre workout but it just misses that wow factor. I would give it an 8/10.

*Run Everything Lab's EWP*- This is a very good product but it's effectiveness lowered fairly quickly. It gives me a good boost in energy and pumps. Overall a 8/10.

*ProSupps Mr Hyde Zero*- Everyone rates this very highly but it's nowhere near my favourite products. It's strong and great for energy but this left me breathless and I have used stronger products without that side effect. Although it still scores fairly highly at 8/10.

*Gaspari SP250*- Very good. Better for energy and focus than pumps bit overall a great pre workout. It did make me crash a bit later on though. I would get the shakes too. Very strong even at just 1 scoop and it is not a 1 scoop formula so be careful when upping the dose. I would give it an 8/10.

*Universal's Fury*- A very basic but solid product. Contains everything you need in a pre workout though. Green apple flavour is the sweetest pre workout I have ever tried. I like that but many won't. Solid product and scores an 8/10.

*Brawn Nutrition's Venom 2.0*-Not for the stimulant sensitive. Although this didn't feel as strong as I intially thougth it would be. Overall a very good product and I rate it an 8/10.

*SAN's Fierce ***ination*- Nice energy, feel and good pumps. Doesn't have the wow factor but for most it would be a solid product to try. I give it an 8/10.

*BSN's NO Xplode 3.0*- Good product and well worth a try. Very long lasting energy with this one. Includes many useful ingredients. Do not shake this one and just stir it. Overall an 8/10.

*Grenade's .50 Caliber*- It comes in fireball flavour and this is unique to any bb products. Some will love the taste and many will hate it. I quite like it but chilli flavour is unusual. This delivers in all areas and most should enjoy it. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Hydrapharm Hydrazine-* I only used a 2 cap sample serving for this product. At that dose it hit me much faster than what was listed on the label. It started with the most intense focus I had felt in a long time. However over a relatively short time it faded so overall I was disappointed. It's still very good and I am sure many will love it but after such an intense start it was disappointment. It's worth adding these caps should be great when added to other preworkouts to enhance focus. I would still give 2 caps 7.5/10.

*Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme*- I have knocked this down from a 9.5/10. When I used this again it's performance was completely different. The ingredient list is the same but my response completely different. It only contains 80mg caffeine per scoop but this is not a stimulant thing. Even the pump factor is a fraction of the past. I can speculate why but no point as the main factor is how it performs now. Good pumps and energy. 2 scoops is a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Hemo Rage The Underground*- Very similar to Hemo Rage black and gives great energy. Nothing incredible but a solid product. I rate it 7.5/10.

*GAT PMP*- A similar but improved version of Nitraflex. This really grew on me but nothing spectacular. Overall a good product though and I give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Outlift*- Very good product but not as good as the label suggests. It's similar to PRE JYM in many ways but not as effective. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex's Hemo Rage Black*- This is all about energy and a decent product but not as good as many others I have tried. Although I feel really good on this one. Overall I give it a 7.5/10.

*Lee Lebrada Super Charge Xtreme 4.0*- Initially I was not impressed at all but it did improve over time. Not a cheap pre workout either. It's meant to have a lot of caffeine in but I feel a single espresso more than 1 scoop. Might be ok for some but definitely not for me. 1 scop would be 5/10 and 2 scoops 7.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust v2*- Nice flow of energy and great pumps. Not as strong as I thought it would be. Overall a decent preworkout and 7.5/10.

*Applied Nutrition ABE (All Black Everything)-* this is a good product that performs well but nothing incredible. Good energy, focus and pumps with this one. The flavour is really different in the fact it is energy flavour so tastes just like a red bull. Although I notice they offer many flavours in this product. Nearly all the creatine is CM so obviously the cheaper source so pointless even putting in the 0.25g of other creatines. They do that so they can mention their tri-creatine blend. It contains 100mg teacrine so you really feel that. I used a sample and think if you dosed 1.5 scoops this could be really good. For 1 serving I would give it 7.5/10. 

*Beast Yourself Raging Bull*- Very good. On paper it is incredible but doesn't live on to that. Really good pumps and combined with an espresso it comes alive even more. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*PRE-KAGED by Kaged Muscle*- An excellent ingredient list and as a result a very expensive pre workout. Similar to PRE JYM in many ways. Overall a good product but doesn't have the wow factor. Overall I give it an 7.5/10.

*APS Nutrition Mesomorph*- This is literally the highest rated preworkout on the forums. I was very disappointed with it. Some people just don't respond to DMAA like others. Although for me there is more to it than that. Mesomorph is obviously strong but I don't feel it in a good way. It can make me a bit out of breath but I don't feel insane focus etc. It's not bad but I just don't feel great on it and I have tried 1/2 of a scoop to 1.5 scoops. I also seem to crash from it and many times would feel very tired after the gym. I would give it 7.5/10.

*Dynamik's Gamma Ray*- This is more of a compliment product in my eyes. It's the pump product for Savage Roar. If you are judging it solely it's nothing spectacular but when added to a traditonal pre workout it can be really special. Not as effective as Full as Fuck but a very good product. Judging it solely as a pump product I would give it a 7.5/10.

*DS (Driven Sports) Frenzy-* much better than I thought it would be from reading the label. Great energy and focus and no crash afterwards. I didn't notice much for the pumps on this one (energy formula) but they are usually good anyway (next to no pump ingredients and inadequate doses). The flavour was really unusual as it was purposely very fizzy (orange pop). They recommend 1-2 servings so this could get better if dosed higher. For 1 serving I give 7/10.

*USN 3XT Pump*- The only thing this does for pumps is the name of the product. It's all energy and very good at that. Some may like this but I wouldn't run out to buy it. Overall a 7/10.

*MHP's Reckless*- This was a 2 serving sachet so my review is limited to just 1 usage. The initial energy surge was great but it faded really quickly and overall this product is lacking. I can imagine 1 serving would be a waste for me. 2 servings scores a 7/10.

*Universal's Shock Therapy*- I have lowered this down after using the full tub. I would recommend this one for beginners. Performs in all areas but I need to use 2 scoops and at that dose rate it 6.5/10.

*Scivation Quake 10.0*- What a disappointment. Looks really good on paper but doesn't perform. The pumps are good but no real energy or focus for me. Overall a 6.5/10.

*5% Nutrition KILL IT*- This one I only tried a sample so take this review with a pinch of salt. I wasn't impressed and expected/hoped for better as I like 5%. Didn't notice too much but again only a sample. Overall a 6/10 but with more scoops could be much better.

*Dymatize Nutrition's M.P.ACT Energy Ignitor*- a pretty standard product and hits you fairly strong but I didn't like the feel from it. There are much better products on the market but still a 6/10. 

*GAT Nitraflex*- Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice. I would give it a 5/10.

*MAN Sports NOOPump*- This is another stimulant free pre workout. I was disappointed using this and it's nowhere as effective as Full as Fuck. It's not a bad product but there are much better out there. Overall I rate it a 5/10.

*Warrior Rage*- Marketed as one of the strongest pre workouts but didn't do much. I would not recommend it. I give it a 3/10

*Condemned Labz Convict*- On paper this looks ideal for me but it was terrible for me. I always felt out of breath on it even with 1 scoop. However it didn't feel strong nor did it give the focus and energy other product's do. It actually worsens my workouts which is strange for a pre workout. Maybe I should have tried a very small serving for a little booster but I gave my tub away. Most seem to love it though and it's rated very highly. For me it has to be a 1/10.

*MRI Black Powder*- Crap. Not even worth writing more about. How can you fuck up a pre workout so much. 2 pro plus would be better. Rating is the worst in my list and 1/1.


----------



## Elvia1023

I haven't had a chance to update my list but I will. I am also experimenting with various new products now as well. I will post lot's of updates fairly soon. I wanted to post about my ratings in general though. Obviously going on 1 or even 10 people's reviews isn't exact because we all respond so differently. Especially when you have some strong products because many can have bad reactions to various ingredients. I think products like Excelsior and Re1gn are great for me but prime example of products that others could react badly to.

I also find a simple mark out of 10 can be very deceiving for some products. Especially products that are great at 1 thing. An example could be something great for pumps but lacks the mental benefits. There are some products I have used that may have not scored really high but could still be great products. Take something like Hydrapharm Hydrazine and it's amazing effects on focus. So many products give great energy and pumps but lack focus so you could add a cap on top with a great effect.

Another example is one of the new products I have been experimenting with recently. It called Utopia by De Novo. It's marketed as a focus and concentration enhancer and for that it is a 9.5/10. If you have some work to do on the comp take 1 scoop of that and you will be zoned in for a few hours. The same for fasted cardio in the morning it's ideal and just the right amount of caffeine (200mg) to give energy for a hard cardio session. However, taking it as a pre workout like many do I would give it a 7.5/10.  It's good but contains no pump ingredients and for me it isn't strong enough energy wise. I even tried 2 scoops one day and it still lacks in regards to a full pre workout. But it's not meant to be a pre workout but just an example of a product that scores differently depending upon the training you are doing.


----------



## Elvia1023

Just completed all the final reviews for the older products I have used. I will make sure I keep it updated more regularly so nothing is lost a long the way. These are just my personal findings but everyone's response is different.

New additions include:

AllMax Nutrition - Impact Igniter
Muscletech Shatter, SX-7, Black Onyx
Goku Gains by Furious Formulations 
Driven Sports Rize 
Black Magic BZRK 
5% Nutrition's Kill It Reloaded 

Adjustments include:

Musclerage's Limitless 


*Imperial Nutrition Excelsior-* where do I start. Over time this went from an 8.5/10 to a 10/10 and back and forth. It's probably the best preworkout I have ever used. However it would sometimes make me feel a bit off but the positives always outweighed the negatives. The energy, focus and euphoria are incredible. It also lasts very long and I would find myself being super productive long after training. As a result this stuff can't be used anywhere near bed time (literally 6 hours at a complete minimum). Many use 1-2 scoops but 1.5 is more than enough for me. The intense euphoria occurs at the higher doses but I don't get any negatives at 1 scoop. At 1 scoop I don't crash and never get over wired but still get great energy and productivity for hours after training. This product is really a 9.5/10 due to the potential negatives but it has to be number 1 so I am going with a 10/10.

*GSN's NitroNOX Pro*- This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to everyone. I would give it a 10/10. Unfortunately this product is no longer available which is a shame.

*Kali Muscle's Hyphy Mud 2.0*- I simply love this product. On paper it looks crap but it makes me feel like a machine. The energy and focus and overall feeling on this product is amazing. I want to give it a 10 but I guess it lacks in pumps so I will give it a 9.5/10.

*Dymatize PRE-* Fantastic product that provides clean energy and great pumps. It doesn't give the euphoria of Excelsior but it has no negative side effects for me. Ideal for someone who can't use strong stimulants such as DMAA and DMHA. It contains a good mix of caffeine (300mg) and teacrine (125mg). I like to use this during my breaks from the stronger stimulants. It deserves 9.5/10.

*5% Nutrition 5150*- This gets mixed reviews but I love it. It's not as strong as many may think but I get great energy, pumps and a euphoric feeling shortly after dosing. It's also one of the nicest pre workouts I have ever tasted (pomegranate and passion fruit flavours). Overall an easy 9/10.

*Olympus Labs Re1gn*- this is a great product. Amazing energy and good pumps. I had some amazing workouts using this and it was very useful on days I was demotivated. It contains some unusual ingredients and I respond great to them. However some (KannaEase for example) may make some people feel sick/off (you have been warned). I would give this an 9/10.

*PRE JYM*- This didn't impress me at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. I call it a complete pre workout and it performs in every sense (pumps, energy, focus, feel) and contains some useful ingredients. I would give it a 9/10.

*Dynamik's Savage Roar*- An excellent pre workout that delivers in every way. Overall a 9/10.

*RedCon1 Total War*- A fantastic product and I can tell most would love this. Great for energy, pumps and focus. You can't really go wrong and it's a 9/10.

*BSN's Endo Rush*- I used just a 1 serving sample for this product. It contains some unusual ingredients in the form of euphoria longana and lindera aggregata and these definitely add to it's mental effects. It contains 3g arginine and 3g citrulline malate. Many would state that is not enough but in my experience a very good mix and if they are high quality should produce excellent muscle pumps. Only 2g beta-alanine as CarnoSyn but it must be a very high purity as I felt it loads. This is why I always state ingredient lists are an indication as who knows what exactly is in a product and what is the purity of those ingredients. Great pumps and a nice boost in energy but great focus. The energy stayed and I felt great for hours after using. No jitters or over stimulanted feeling and lot's of clean energy. Something I noticed is the ingredient profile for my sample is different to the one posted online. The product I used does not contain yohimbe plus uses different doses of other ingredients. I would give this 9/10. 

*Ronnie Coleman Yeah Buddy*- This to me is very similar to HYDE (on paper and in effect) but without any negatives. A very strong product I recommend to anyone who is fine with stimulants. Overall an easy 9/10. 

*5% Nutrition's Full as Fuck*- Techinally not really a pre workout but many use it for that so it's worth mentioning. This contains no stimulants so if you want that it is ideal. I used this through the day (perhaps going the beach) or pre workout with caffeine. The pumps and vascularity from this are insane for me. It's much better used on an empty stomach and takes time to build up. An excellent stimulant free pre workout. You could also add a good stimulant like teacrine to it to make a fantastic complete preworkout too. For what it is I give it a 9/10.

*Enhanced Athlete's RAGE-*Berry blast flavour tastes like crap which for pre workout is often a good sign (not always). Lot's of clean energy and great pumps. It's nowhere as strong as some of the other products I have used but so much smoother. This is a really good product for me and gives the ideal energy and focus I need for the gym without over stimulating. I think the ratio of caffeine to DMHA is ideal. I find DMHA is much smoother than DMAA but obviously similar in effect. I would give this 9/10.

*Muscletech Shatter, SX-7, Black Onyx- *I was very impressed with this product. Although this is one product I am reviewing after a long time has passed so I am forgetting details. I have looked back at all my posts but there isn't much info on it. I recall feeling great using this and that the pumps were fantastic. It contains adenosine triphosphate as it's main pump enhancer and I have had great results using that in the past. It contains a few more uncommon ingredients and I definitely recommend it for something different. Harder to score but I will go with 8.5/10.

*Musclemeds NO BULL*- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feel very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks or so. Overall a 8.5/10.

*Musclerage's Limitless*- One of the nicest tasting pre workouts I have tried (Cotton Candy). Nice clean energy with no crash afterwards. It contains a nice mix of 2 caffeine sources, eria jarensis and alpha gpc. Considering the pump ingredients are standard it also performs very well in that area too. Although after using 2 tubs I have lowered it's score from 9/10 to 8.5/10.

*Cobra Labs The Curse*- Fantastic product. On paper this doesn't look good at all (very basic). I think it contains 125mg caffeine and 5mg olive leaf extract per scoop. 2 scoops of this should make you a machine in the gym. Definitely recommend if you want something simple but effective. Rating changes with scoops but overall a 8.5/10.

*Ergogenix's Ergoblast*- A great pre workout and felt very different to most. Nothing too powerful but the focus was great. The pumps were incredible on this product. Overall I give it a 8.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust-X*- I only used a 1 serving sample but was very impressed. All in all great focus, energy and sense of well being. I can't comment on pumps as I used dbol/adrol that day as well  I will say 8.5/10.

*Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice Extreme*- Great product and provides clean energy and incredible pumps. If you need a pump product try this one (10/10 for pumps). Overall I rate it an 8.5/10.

*BSN's NO-XPLODE XE EDGE*- It contains a lot of useful ingredients. Whilst some may not be dosed high enough the final effect is a very good one. It performs in all areas and I felt great on it. This was just a sachet so could be better at a higher dose. Overall an 8.5/10.

*AllMax Nutrition Impact Igniter-* A very good product with an array of useful ingredients. It performs in all areas with no bad side effects. Fairly high stimulants but no crash and overall a solid 8.5/10.

*Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha*- Great initial surge of energy that lowers quickly but still stays. This product simply makes me feel so euphoric. This is quite a rare thing with pre workouts. Many contain ingredients that should make you feel that way but often they don't. Only a handful of products have given me this feeling and this is one of them. Many should enjoy this product. A solid 8/10.

*Nutrex Outlift Amped*- On paper this looks fantastic but like the original it under performs. It is still very good but I expected more. It's very similar to the original outlift and performs in all areas. I should add the scooper is ridiculous. A perfect example of over designing. They have put a top on it so people can use for water bottles so I get that. But it's so impractical when trying to get powder into the scoop. Not a big deal but worth a mention. I give this 8/10.

*Dorian Yates NOX Pump-* Decent. I used this years ago and it was incredible. This time nowhere as good so the formula must be different (something got banned). Maybe better than decent as with an espresso I am an animal in the gym. This an a single espresso was a fav of mine for a while. With an extra kick this product can score a 9.5/10 but alone it's a solid 8/10.

*Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped*- Probably the strongest pre workout I have ever taken in regards to stimulants. I really enjoyed this and if you like your stimulants definitely try it out. The one area this really stands out in is the added mental focus. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Nutrabio PRE-* Very good product full of useful ingredients at effective doses. It's what I call a complete pre workout but it just misses that wow factor. I would give it an 8/10.

*Run Everything Lab's EWP*- This is a very good product but it's effectiveness lowered fairly quickly. It gives me a good boost in energy and pumps. Overall a 8/10.

*ProSupps Mr Hyde Zero*- Everyone rates this very highly but it's nowhere near my favourite products. It's strong and great for energy but this left me breathless and I have used stronger products without that side effect. Although it still scores fairly highly at 8/10.

*Gaspari SP250*- Very good. Better for energy and focus than pumps bit overall a great pre workout. It did make me crash a bit later on though. I would get the shakes too. Very strong even at just 1 scoop and it is not a 1 scoop formula so be careful when upping the dose. I would give it an 8/10.

*Universal's Fury*- A very basic but solid product. Contains everything you need in a pre workout though. Green apple flavour is the sweetest pre workout I have ever tried. I like that but many won't. Solid product and scores an 8/10.

*Brawn Nutrition's Venom 2.0*-Not for the stimulant sensitive. Although this didn't feel as strong as I intially thougth it would be. Overall a very good product and I rate it an 8/10.

*SAN's Fierce ***ination*- Nice energy, feel and good pumps. Doesn't have the wow factor but for most it would be a solid product to try. I give it an 8/10.

*BSN's NO Xplode 3.0*- Good product and well worth a try. Very long lasting energy with this one. Includes many useful ingredients. Do not shake this one and just stir it. Overall an 8/10.

*Grenade's .50 Caliber*- It comes in fireball flavour and this is unique to any bb products. Some will love the taste and many will hate it. I quite like it but chilli flavour is unusual. This delivers in all areas and most should enjoy it. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Black Magic Bzrk-* This is a solid product but very standard in today's market. If you respond well to DMHA you should like this one as it contains 200mg amongst other stimulants. Great focus, energy and pumps. It also tastes great which is rare (peach ring flavour). I would give it an 8/10.

*Hydrapharm Hydrazine-* I only used a 2 cap sample serving for this product. At that dose it hit me much faster than what was listed on the label. It started with the most intense focus I had felt in a long time. However over a relatively short time it faded so overall I was disappointed. It's still very good and I am sure many will love it but after such an intense start it was disappointment. It's worth adding these caps should be great when added to other preworkouts to enhance focus. I would still give 2 caps 7.5/10.

*Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme*- I have knocked this down from a 9.5/10. When I used this again it's performance was completely different. The ingredient list is the same but my response completely different. It only contains 80mg caffeine per scoop but this is not a stimulant thing. Even the pump factor is a fraction of the past. I can speculate why but no point as the main factor is how it performs now. Good pumps and energy. 2 scoops is a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Hemo Rage The Underground*- Very similar to Hemo Rage black and gives great energy. Nothing incredible but a solid product. I rate it 7.5/10.

*GAT PMP*- A similar but improved version of Nitraflex. This really grew on me but nothing spectacular. Overall a good product though and I give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Outlift*- Very good product but not as good as the label suggests. It's similar to PRE JYM in many ways but not as effective. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex's Hemo Rage Black*- This is all about energy and a decent product but not as good as many others I have tried. Although I feel really good on this one. Overall I give it a 7.5/10.

*Lee Lebrada Super Charge Xtreme 4.0*- Initially I was not impressed at all but it did improve over time. Not a cheap pre workout either. It's meant to have a lot of caffeine in but I feel a single espresso more than 1 scoop. Might be ok for some but definitely not for me. 1 scop would be 5/10 and 2 scoops 7.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust v2*- Nice flow of energy and great pumps. Not as strong as I thought it would be. Overall a decent preworkout and 7.5/10.

*Applied Nutrition ABE (All Black Everything)-* this is a good product that performs well but nothing incredible. Good energy, focus and pumps with this one. The flavour is really different in the fact it is energy flavour so tastes just like a red bull. Although I notice they offer many flavours in this product. Nearly all the creatine is CM so obviously the cheaper source so pointless even putting in the 0.25g of other creatines. They do that so they can mention their tri-creatine blend. It contains 100mg teacrine so you really feel that. I used a sample and think if you dosed 1.5 scoops this could be really good. For 1 serving I would give it 7.5/10. 

*Beast Yourself Raging Bull*- Very good. On paper it is incredible but doesn't live on to that. Really good pumps and combined with an espresso it comes alive even more. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*PRE-KAGED by Kaged Muscle*- An excellent ingredient list and as a result a very expensive pre workout. Similar to PRE JYM in many ways. Overall a good product but doesn't have the wow factor. Overall I give it an 7.5/10.

*APS Nutrition Mesomorph*- This is literally the highest rated preworkout on the forums. I was very disappointed with it. Some people just don't respond to DMAA like others. Although for me there is more to it than that. Mesomorph is obviously strong but I don't feel it in a good way. It can make me a bit out of breath but I don't feel insane focus etc. It's not bad but I just don't feel great on it and I have tried 1/2 of a scoop to 1.5 scoops. I also seem to crash from it and many times would feel very tired after the gym. I would give it 7.5/10.

*Dynamik's Gamma Ray*- This is more of a compliment product in my eyes. It's the pump product for Savage Roar. If you are judging it solely it's nothing spectacular but when added to a traditonal pre workout it can be really special. Not as effective as Full as Fuck but a very good product. Judging it solely as a pump product I would give it a 7.5/10.

*DS (Driven Sports) Frenzy-* much better than I thought it would be from reading the label. Great energy and focus and no crash afterwards. I didn't notice much for the pumps on this one (energy formula) but they are usually good anyway (next to no pump ingredients and inadequate doses). The flavour was really unusual as it was purposely very fizzy (orange pop). They recommend 1-2 servings so this could get better if dosed higher. For 1 serving I give 7/10.

*USN 3XT Pump*- The only thing this does for pumps is the name of the product. It's all energy and very good at that. Some may like this but I wouldn't run out to buy it. Overall a 7/10.

*5% Nutrition's Kill It Reloaded-* A very well rounded product but missing the wow factor. Performs in all areas but doesn't stand out in anyway. Many ingredients could be dosed higher and that would have given it a much higher score. Many seem to really like it but I much preferred their 5150 product. Overall a decent 7/10.

*MHP's Reckless*- This was a 2 serving sachet so my review is limited to just 1 usage. The initial energy surge was great but it faded really quickly and overall this product is lacking. I can imagine 1 serving would be a waste for me. 2 servings scores a 7/10.

*Goku Gains by Furious Formulations-* As I always post tolerance to stimulants is a massive factor. For someone used to DMHA and other stronger stimulants this product is very standard. However, after a long break or if new to stronger stimulants this could be great for you. Although some of it's ingredients need to be dosed higher for optimal results. I also had issues with my blood glucose with this product and it made me go hypo a few times. In today's market there are many better products. As a result I give this 7/10.

*Driven Sports Rize-* This product is harder to score as it hit me very differently each day. With the stronger stimulants your recent food intake becomes a much bigger factor in regards to effecting performance and side effects. If I didn't have a large meal closer to training with this product I would often crash very hard from it. Although it would always hit me fast and felt great but that feeling would quickly decline. As a result I don't recommend it as there are many better alternatives. Although 1 scoop (tub says 1-2 scoops) with added caffeine makes a good combination. It still get's a score of 7/10.

*Universal's Shock Therapy*- I have lowered this down after using the full tub. I would recommend this one for beginners. Performs in all areas but I need to use 2 scoops and at that dose rate it 6.5/10.

*Scivation Quake 10.0*- What a disappointment. Looks really good on paper but doesn't perform. The pumps are good but no real energy or focus for me. Overall a 6.5/10.

*5% Nutrition KILL IT*- This one I only tried a sample so take this review with a pinch of salt. I wasn't impressed and expected/hoped for better as I like 5%. Didn't notice too much but again only a sample. Overall a 6/10 but with more scoops could be much better.

*Dymatize Nutrition's M.P.ACT Energy Ignitor*- a pretty standard product and hits you fairly strong but I didn't like the feel from it. There are much better products on the market but still a 6/10. 

*GAT Nitraflex*- Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice. I would give it a 5/10.

*MAN Sports NOOPump*- This is another stimulant free pre workout. I was disappointed using this and it's nowhere as effective as Full as Fuck. It's not a bad product but there are much better out there. Overall I rate it a 5/10.

*Warrior Rage*- Marketed as one of the strongest pre workouts but didn't do much. I would not recommend it. I give it a 3/10

*Condemned Labz Convict*- On paper this looks ideal for me but it was terrible for me. I always felt out of breath on it even with 1 scoop. However it didn't feel strong nor did it give the focus and energy other product's do. It actually worsens my workouts which is strange for a pre workout. Maybe I should have tried a very small serving for a little booster but I gave my tub away. Most seem to love it though and it's rated very highly. For me it has to be a 1/10.

*MRI Black Powder*- Crap. Not even worth writing more about. How can you fuck up a pre workout so much. 2 pro plus would be better. Rating is the worst in my list and 1/1.


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## Elvia1023

After doing the above over the next few days I can now go over the more recent products I have used:

Innovapharm MVP 2.0 (tub)
Strom Sports Stimumax Black Edition (tub)
Alpha Lion Komodo Pump (tub)
De Novo Utopia (tub)
Olympus Labs I Am Suprem3 (tub)
Alpha Lion Super Human (sample)

I also have just received 3 new products which are:

Alpha Lion Free*** Juice/Superhuman Supreme (tub)
Chaos Crew StimHead (tub)
Controlled Labs Orange Brainwash (tub)

They also sent me samples of more Utopia and 2 packs of HR Labs Defib. The HR Labs Defib samples are 2 servings each (full dose) and I tried one tonight. Here is the ingredient panel:


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## Elvia1023

I wanted to highlight a new product that has just come out which has really caught my eye. Evogen have always done what I consider poorly forumlated/dosed products and at high prices. It always put me off but I do like the look of their brand new preworkout. I emailed the company but have not heard from them so I may have to wait for one of their European resellers to get it in stock.

EVP EXTREME N.O.


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## AGGRO

Elvia1023 said:


> I wanted to highlight a new product that has just come out which has really caught my eye. Evogen have always done what I consider poorly forumlated/dosed products and at high prices. It always put me off but I do like the look of their brand new preworkout. I emailed the company but have not heard from them so I may have to wait for one of their European resellers to get it in stock.
> 
> EVP EXTREME N.O.



This one does look good. Arginine nitrate is something I don't see much. Coconut water powder is great for hydration. Only issue is it's $50 for 20 servings.


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## Elvia1023

AGGRO said:


> This one does look good. Arginine nitrate is something I don't see much. Coconut water powder is great for hydration. Only issue is it's $50 for 20 servings.



Yes it's expensive but put together very well. I am a fan of arginine anyway so the nitrate version will be gtg. I am also a fan of coconut powder for hydration so it definitely ticks all the boxes for me. I would also like to use a little creatine and this contains 2.5g per scoop. I have always responded well to yohimbe as well so when I saw that I thought it complete things very well. All in all it definitely caught my eye as it contains a lot of things I like and respond well to. I even like the way the caffeine is put together (300mg from green coffee bean etc). I will see if I can get it and if so I will order 1 tub. I want to try out their new EAA's as well.


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## Elvia1023

I will run through some of the recent products I have used with some brief thoughts for now.

*Innovapharm MVP 2.0 (tub)- *For the average preworkout user you can't really get better than this. Ticks all the boxes. Great list of ingredients and doses. Very smooth and contains 350mg caffeine and 100mg Eria Jarensis so it's not weak but for me I expected it to feel stronger. I am thinking 8/10 but I need to use it more before deciding what rating it gets. This may not be anywhere near 10/10 for me but I think for the standard user this is a fantastic product.

*Strom Sports Stimumax Black Edition (tub)- *This is hard to score as it can hit me so differently each time. It has made me feel hypo a few times which is common with stronger stimulants. It lacks something to help balance out the stronger fast acting stimulants (as do most stimulant preworkouts). Although it doesn't even feel overly strong to me in the gym but I still get the side effects. Nevertheless, I would recommend using this after eating a balanced meal. I usually add in about 3 salted rice cakes just before using stims such as DMHA just as a precaution. It's still very good so it's gonna be around 8/10.

*Alpha Lion Komodo Pump (tub*)- This is a stimulant free product but with a difference. Reason being they include some cognitive enhancers in the form of Lion's Mane, Alpha GPC and Huperzine A. So you will feel a little boost in mental clarity/sharpness. It also has 8g citrulline malate, 3g glycerpump, 150mg s7 etc. All in all a great non stimulant product that could be used alone or with a product containing stimulants. I am thinking 8.5-9/10.

*De Novo Utopia (tub)- *this is a great product. It would be unfair to score this as a pre workout. It's more a focus and concentration enhancer and I bought it mainly for work. It's ingredients are very simple but put together very smartly. It does contain 200mg caffeine so it could be used as a preworkout stimulant but I find it better for other things. If you ever have a lot of work to do or even some morning fasted cardio this is ideal. For what it is I give it a 9/10. My gf also loves this stuff as well.

*Olympus Labs I Am Suprem3 (tub)- *This is basically just like Re1gn but even better. Probably my favourite product I have used recently. I love this stuff and it has helped me through many great workouts. Even though it contains a variety of strong stimulants it doesn't make me crash etc. It contains some very good ingredients including l-citrulline, pomegranite extract, vaso6, caffeine, julgans regia (dmha), eria jarensis and teacrine. The issue with this is the same as Re1gn and it contains some ingredients I find simply don't respond well in certain people. The main one being KannaEase. However my body must love the stuff as I think it's a great compliment to the strong stimulants. I need to run it a few more times but probably 9-9.5/10.

*HR Labs Defib (sample)- *I used a 2 serving sample so the full dose. On paper it looks amazing and contains everything you need and more. It was good but does not live up to the ingredient panel which is very common with preworkout supplements. I was expecting much more from 400mg caffeine, 200mg dynamine and 500mg citicoline. That is a great trio of ingredients at decent doses but I was underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong this still felt very good but I expected it to be much better. I need to try the other sample to give it a fairer review but I am thinking 7.5-8/10.

*Chaos Crew StimHead (tub)- *I used this yesterday for the 1st time. Apart from some beta alanine and taurine this is pretty much all stimulants. It includes an array of stimulants and some unusual ones (900mg in total). I was expecting this to be much stronger but it felt very smooth. I have only tried it once so I need to use it a few more times to gain a better understanding of it. It felt good but I wasn't overly impressed but I will see how it feels after a few more uses. No score for this one yet.

*Alpha Lion Super Human (sample)- *I tried a 1 serving sample just once and it felt great. On the day maybe a 9/10 but it was just 1 time and I will probably leave it off my list until I try it again.

*Alpha Lion Free*** Juice/Superhuman Supreme (tub)- *Now this is the new and improved version of the above so I was expecting it to be great. I used it for the first time today and it was good but I expected more. The ingredient panel for this is fantastic so I was expecting a 9.5+/10. I will use it a few more times and see how it goes. I should add it tastes really good. It's patriotic pineapple flavour which is white powder with red and blue bits so it definitely looks the part.

*Controlled Labs Orange Brainwash (tub)- *I have yet to use this but plan to for cardio or work.


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## Sandpig

Lots on that latest list I've never heard og

Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk


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## Elvia1023

I used Free*** Juice tonight for the 2nd time. It got me through a brutal session. A funny side effect is what it does to you downstairs. I got in the shower and it was literally less than half it's normal size  Many have mentioned this before in regards to strong stimulants especially 2-aminoisoheptane (DMHA). Free*** Juice contains 200mg 2-aminoisoheptane, 300mg caffeine anhydrous, 200mg eria jarensis, 100mg dicaffeine malate and 75mg n-methyltyramine HCL (hordenine). Besides that the energy and pumps were gtg. It's not as good as I thought it would be but still up there with some of the better ones I have used. Not sure yet but I am thinking 8.5/10. Maybe it will get bumped up to 9/10 just not too sure yet.

Yesterday I used Olympus Labs I Am Suprem3 again. I have nearly used the entire tub so I have a good understanding of it. It's very similar to Re1gn and I marked that 9/10. I wasn't sure about Re1gn at first and I knocked it's rating up simply due to how good it could be at times. I think this is slightly better but I will still give it a 9/10. I don't mark things like 9.2 for example but when I do my list I try to put my favs higher up. So I currently have 8 products scored at 9/10 but the highest placed ones I rate slightly better for reference. 

Over the next week I will probably rotate between Free*** Juice and Stim Head. I also have 1 sample of HR Labs Defib to try again. After that I think I will have a break from strong stimulants. In that time I will do no caffeine on some days and perhaps try Controlled Labs Orange Brainwash if I ever need a boost pre cardio/workout. Here is the ingredient panel for CL's Brainwash...


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## Elvia1023

I should probably post the Freedo m Juice ingredient profile again as I think many will like the look of it...


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## Viking

Elvia1023 said:


> I should probably post the Freedo m Juice ingredient profile again as I think many will like the look of it...



That has everything in and at big doses. I migth try it as I want to use something stronger.


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## odin

Elvia1023 said:


> I will run through some of the recent products I have used with some brief thoughts for now.
> 
> *Innovapharm MVP 2.0 (tub)- *For the average preworkout user you can't really get better than this. Ticks all the boxes. Great list of ingredients and doses. Very smooth and contains 350mg caffeine and 100mg Eria Jarensis so it's not weak but for me I expected it to feel stronger. I am thinking 8/10 but I need to use it more before deciding what rating it gets. This may not be anywhere near 10/10 for me but I think for the standard user this is a fantastic product.
> 
> *Strom Sports Stimumax Black Edition (tub)- *This is hard to score as it can hit me so differently each time. It has made me feel hypo a few times which is common with stronger stimulants. It lacks something to help balance out the stronger fast acting stimulants (as do most stimulant preworkouts). Although it doesn't even feel overly strong to me in the gym but I still get the side effects. Nevertheless, I would recommend using this after eating a balanced meal. I usually add in about 3 salted rice cakes just before using stims such as DMHA just as a precaution. It's still very good so it's gonna be around 8/10.
> 
> *Alpha Lion Komodo Pump (tub*)- This is a stimulant free product but with a difference. Reason being they include some cognitive enhancers in the form of Lion's Mane, Alpha GPC and Huperzine A. So you will feel a little boost in mental clarity/sharpness. It also has 8g citrulline malate, 3g glycerpump, 150mg s7 etc. All in all a great non stimulant product that could be used alone or with a product containing stimulants. I am thinking 8.5-9/10.
> 
> *De Novo Utopia (tub)- *this is a great product. It would be unfair to score this as a pre workout. It's more a focus and concentration enhancer and I bought it mainly for work. It's ingredients are very simple but put together very smartly. It does contain 200mg caffeine so it could be used as a preworkout stimulant but I find it better for other things. If you ever have a lot of work to do or even some morning fasted cardio this is ideal. For what it is I give it a 9/10. My gf also loves this stuff as well.
> 
> *Olympus Labs I Am Suprem3 (tub)- *This is basically just like Re1gn but even better. Probably my favourite product I have used recently. I love this stuff and it has helped me through many great workouts. Even though it contains a variety of strong stimulants it doesn't make me crash etc. It contains some very good ingredients including l-citrulline, pomegranite extract, vaso6, caffeine, julgans regia (dmha), eria jarensis and teacrine. The issue with this is the same as Re1gn and it contains some ingredients I find simply don't respond well in certain people. The main one being KannaEase. However my body must love the stuff as I think it's a great compliment to the strong stimulants. I need to run it a few more times but probably 9-9.5/10.
> 
> *HR Labs Defib (sample)- *I used a 2 serving sample so the full dose. On paper it looks amazing and contains everything you need and more. It was good but does not live up to the ingredient panel which is very common with preworkout supplements. I was expecting much more from 400mg caffeine, 200mg dynamine and 500mg citicoline. That is a great trio of ingredients at decent doses but I was underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong this still felt very good but I expected it to be much better. I need to try the other sample to give it a fairer review but I am thinking 7.5-8/10.
> 
> *Chaos Crew StimHead (tub)- *I used this yesterday for the 1st time. Apart from some beta alanine and taurine this is pretty much all stimulants. It includes an array of stimulants and some unusual ones (900mg in total). I was expecting this to be much stronger but it felt very smooth. I have only tried it once so I need to use it a few more times to gain a better understanding of it. It felt good but I wasn't overly impressed but I will see how it feels after a few more uses. No score for this one yet.
> 
> *Alpha Lion Super Human (sample)- *I tried a 1 serving sample just once and it felt great. On the day maybe a 9/10 but it was just 1 time and I will probably leave it off my list until I try it again.
> 
> *Alpha Lion Free*** Juice/Superhuman Supreme (tub)- *Now this is the new and improved version of the above so I was expecting it to be great. I used it for the first time today and it was good but I expected more. The ingredient panel for this is fantastic so I was expecting a 9.5+/10. I will use it a few more times and see how it goes. I should add it tastes really good. It's patriotic pineapple flavour which is white powder with red and blue bits so it definitely looks the part.
> 
> *Controlled Labs Orange Brainwash (tub)- *I have yet to use this but plan to for cardio or work.



I am curious how you get on with Brainwash. That and utopia look ideal for me.


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## Elvia1023

I haven't used this yet but it looks like it would be ideal for someone who wants a relatively strong (well dosed) preworkout but without any very strong stimulants (DMHA, DMAA, Amp Citrate etc) added.

*OuttenFit Nutrition Revive V2*


----------



## prototype5

Elvia,

I feel like I owe you a beer for all those reviews. lol.  Thanks man.



> GAT Nitraflex- Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice. I would give it a 5/10



I actually really like it.  Works great for me.  Anything more then a scoop and Ill get a bit of a headache.    
Always enough to get through my workout and I dont crash. 

Waiting to see your controlled labs brain wash review.  I ran right flood back in the day.  Wired energy but always had a huge crash right at the end.  Just completely done.


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## Elvia1023

I have been using Chaos Crew's Stim head a lot recently. A part from beta alanine and l-taurine it's pretty much all stimulants. As a result I have been using 1 scoop with 1 scoop of Alpha Lion's Komodo Pump. Komodo Pump is loaded with pump ingredients and some cognitive enhancers. It's not the cheapest because you are using 2 products at full doses but this combo is fantastic for me. Amazing energy, focus, pumps and endurance. It's hard to stop training on this combo and I have to tell myself to leave the gym as I want to keep going. Komodo pump would be a great addition to any good stimulant product.


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## Elvia1023

Elvia1023 said:


> I haven't used this yet but it looks like it would be ideal for someone who wants a relatively strong (well dosed) preworkout but without any very strong stimulants (DMHA, DMAA, Amp Citrate etc) added.
> 
> *OuttenFit Nutrition Revive V2*



I have actually just ordered this. I will have it on Monday. I also ordered Myoblox Loco Cinco XO...


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## Elvia1023

New additions include:

Innovapharm MVP 2.0 (tub)
Strom Sports Stimumax Black Edition (tub)
Alpha Lion Komodo Pump (tub)
De Novo Utopia (tub)
Olympus Labs I Am Suprem3 (tub)
Alpha Lion Freed om Juice/Superhuman Supreme (tub)
Chaos Crew StimHead (tub)
Controlled Labs Orange Brainwash (tub)
Alpha Lion Super Human (sample)
HR Labs Defib (sample)


*Imperial Nutrition Excelsior*- where do I start. Over time this went from an 8.5/10 to a 10/10 and back and forth. It's probably the best preworkout I have ever used. However it would sometimes make me feel a bit off but the positives always outweighed the negatives. The energy, focus and euphoria are incredible. It also lasts very long and I would find myself being super productive long after training. As a result this stuff can't be used anywhere near bed time (literally 6 hours at a complete minimum). Many use 1-2 scoops but 1.5 is more than enough for me. The intense euphoria occurs at the higher doses but I don't get any negatives at 1 scoop. At 1 scoop I don't crash and never get over wired but still get great energy and productivity for hours after training. This product is really a 9.5/10 due to the potential negatives but it has to be number 1 so I am going with a 10/10.

*GSN's NitroNOX Pro-* This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to everyone. I would give it a 10/10. Unfortunately this product is no longer available which is a shame.

*Kali Muscle's Hyphy Mud 2.0*- I simply love this product. On paper it looks crap but it makes me feel like a machine. The energy and focus and overall feeling on this product is amazing. I want to give it a 10 but I guess it lacks in pumps so I will give it a 9.5/10.

*Dymatize PRE*- Fantastic product that provides clean energy and great pumps. It doesn't give the euphoria of Excelsior but it has no negative side effects for me. Ideal for someone who can't use strong stimulants such as DMAA and DMHA. It contains a good mix of caffeine (300mg) and teacrine (125mg). I like to use this during my breaks from the stronger stimulants. It deserves 9.5/10.

*Olympus Labs I Am Suprem3*- This is basically just like Re1gn but even better. I love this stuff and it has helped me through many great workouts. Even though it contains a variety of strong stimulants it never made me crash. It contains some very good ingredients including l-citrulline, pomegranite extract, vaso6, caffeine, julgans regia (dmha), eria jarensis and teacrine. The issue with this is the same as Re1gn and it contains some ingredients I find simply don't respond well in certain people. The main one being KannaEase. However my body must love the stuff as I think it's a great compliment to the strong stimulants. I will give this a top level 9/10.

*5% Nutrition 5150*- This gets mixed reviews but I love it. It's not as strong as many may think but I get great energy, pumps and a euphoric feeling shortly after dosing. It's also one of the nicest pre workouts I have ever tasted (pomegranate and passion fruit flavours). Overall an easy 9/10.

*Olympus Labs Re1gn*- this is a great product. Amazing energy and good pumps. I had some amazing workouts using this and it was very useful on days I was demotivated. It contains some unusual ingredients and I respond great to them. However some (KannaEase for example) may make some people feel sick/off (you have been warned). I would give this an 9/10.

Alp*ha Lion Freed om Juice/Superhuman Supreme*- this is the improved version of the same brands "superhuman" so I was expecting it to be great. It didn't disappoint but it also didn't feel as strong as I expected. As a result I started using well over 1 scoop of this which on paper is already dosed high per scoop. The formula is exactly the same as superhuman with the addition of 2 stimulants in the form of 200mg 2-aminoisoheptane (DMHA) and 200mg n n-dimethylphenethylamine (Eria jarensis) so it's comprehensively dosed in all areas. I should add it also tastes surprisingly good. My product is patriotic pineapple flavour which is white powder with red and blue bits so it definitely looks the part as well.

*PRE JYM-* This didn't impress me at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. I call it a complete pre workout and it performs in every sense (pumps, energy, focus, feel) and contains some useful ingredients. I would give it a 9/10.

*De Novo Utopia*- this is a great product. It would be unfair to score this as a pre workout. It's more a focus and concentration enhancer and I bought it mainly for work. It's ingredients are very simple but put together very smartly. It does contain 200mg caffeine so it could be used as a preworkout stimulant but I find it better for other things. If you ever have a lot of work to do or even some morning fasted cardio this is ideal. So don't buy this to use as a traditional preworkout. For what it is I give it a 9/10.

*Dynamik's Savage Roar-* An excellent pre workout that delivers in every way. Overall a 9/10.

*RedCon1 Total War*- A fantastic product and I can tell most would love this. Great for energy, pumps and focus. You can't really go wrong and it's a 9/10.

*BSN's Endo Rush*- I used just a 1 serving sample for this product. It contains some unusual ingredients in the form of euphoria longana and lindera aggregata and these definitely add to it's mental effects. It contains 3g arginine and 3g citrulline malate. Many would state that is not enough but in my experience a very good mix and if they are high quality should produce excellent muscle pumps. Only 2g beta-alanine as CarnoSyn but it must be a very high purity as I felt it loads. This is why I always state ingredient lists are an indication as who knows what exactly is in a product and what is the purity of those ingredients. Great pumps and a nice boost in energy but great focus. The energy stayed and I felt great for hours after using. No jitters or over stimulanted feeling and lot's of clean energy. Something I noticed is the ingredient profile for my sample is different to the one posted online. The product I used does not contain yohimbe plus uses different doses of other ingredients. I would give this 9/10. 

*Ronnie Coleman Yeah Buddy*- This to me is very similar to HYDE (on paper and in effect) but without any negatives. A very strong product I recommend to anyone who is fine with stimulants. Overall an easy 9/10. 

*5% Nutrition's Full as Fuck*- Techinally not really a pre workout but many use it for that so it's worth mentioning. This contains no stimulants so if you want that it is ideal. I used this through the day (perhaps going the beach) or pre workout with caffeine. The pumps and vascularity from this are insane for me. It's much better used on an empty stomach and takes time to build up. An excellent stimulant free pre workout. You could also add a good stimulant like teacrine to it to make a fantastic complete preworkout too. For what it is I give it a 9/10.

*Enhanced Athlete's RAGE*- Berry blast flavour tastes like crap which for pre workout is often a good sign (not always). Lot's of clean energy and great pumps. It's nowhere as strong as some of the other products I have used but so much smoother. This is a really good product for me and gives the ideal energy and focus I need for the gym without over stimulating. I think the ratio of caffeine to DMHA is ideal. I find DMHA is much smoother than DMAA but obviously similar in effect. I would give this 9/10.

*Alpha Lion Komodo Pump*- This is a stimulant free product but with a difference. Reason being they include some cognitive enhancers in the form of Lion's Mane, Alpha GPC and Huperzine A. So you will feel a little boost in mental clarity/sharpness. It also has 8g citrulline malate, 3g glycerpump, 150mg s7 etc. All in all a great non stimulant product that could be used alone or with a product containing stimulants. For a non stim pump product I give it a 9/10.

*Muscletech Shatter, SX-7, Black Onyx*- I was very impressed with this product. Although this is one product I am reviewing after a long time has passed so I am forgetting details. I have looked back at all my posts but there isn't much info on it. I recall feeling great using this and that the pumps were fantastic. It contains adenosine triphosphate as it's main pump enhancer and I have had great results using that in the past. It contains a few more uncommon ingredients and I definitely recommend it for something different. Harder to score but I will go with 8.5/10.

*Musclemeds NO BULL*- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feels very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks of frequent usage. Overall a 8.5/10.

*Alpha Lion's Super Human-* I tried a sample serving just once and it felt great. It provides great energy, focus and pumps. This products is loaded with useful ingredients at effective doses. Most should find this product ticks all the boxes. A very solid 8.5/10.

*Musclerage's Limitless-* One of the nicest tasting pre workouts I have tried (Cotton Candy). Nice clean energy with no crash afterwards. It contains a nice mix of 2 caffeine sources, eria jarensis and alpha gpc. Considering the pump ingredients are standard it also performs very well in that area too. Although after using 2 tubs I have lowered it's score to 8.5/10.

*Cobra Labs The Curse*- Fantastic product. On paper this doesn't look good at all (very basic). I think it contains 125mg caffeine and 5mg olive leaf extract per scoop (50 servings per tub). 2 scoops of this should make you a machine in the gym. Definitely recommended if you want something simple but effective. Rating changes with scoops but overall a 8.5/10.

*Ergogenix's Ergoblast*- A great pre workout and felt very different to most. Nothing too powerful but the focus was great. The pumps were incredible on this product. Overall I give it a 8.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust-X*- I only used a 1 serving sample but was very impressed. All in all great focus, energy and sense of well being. I can't comment on pumps as I used dbol/adrol that day as well  I will say 8.5/10.

*Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice Extreme*- Great product and provides clean energy and incredible pumps. If you need a pump product try this one (10/10 for pumps). Overall I rate it an 8.5/10.

*BSN's NO-XPLODE XE EDGE*- It contains a lot of useful ingredients. Whilst some may not be dosed high enough the final effect is a very good one. It performs in all areas and I felt great on it. This was just a sachet so could be better at a higher dose. Overall an 8.5/10.

*Chaos Crew StimHead*- Apart from some beta alanine and taurine this is pretty much all stimulants. It includes an array of stimulants and some unusual ones (900mg in total). This made me feel great and really helped push me through some hard workouts. If you are after mainly stimulants this is worth experimenting with. A very good 8.5/10.

*AllMax Nutrition Impact Igniter*- A very good product with an array of useful ingredients. It performs in all areas with no bad side effects. Fairly high stimulants but no crash and overall a solid 8.5/10.

Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha- Great initial surge of energy that lowers quickly but still stays. This product simply makes me feel so euphoric. This is quite a rare thing with pre workouts. Many contain ingredients that should make you feel that way but often they don't. Only a handful of products have given me this feeling and this is one of them. Many should enjoy this product. A solid 8/10.

Innovapharm MVP 2.0- For the average preworkout user you can't really get better than this. Ticks all the boxes. Great list of ingredients and doses. Very smooth and contains 350mg caffeine and 100mg Eria Jarensis so it's not weak but for me I expected it to feel stronger. For anyone after an all rounder this is one of the top on my list. A solid 8/10.

Nutrex Outlift Amped- On paper this looks fantastic but like the original it under performs. It is still very good but I expected more. It's very similar to the original outlift and performs in all areas. I should add the scooper is ridiculous. A perfect example of over designing. They have put a top on it so people can use for water bottles so I get that. But it's so impractical when trying to get powder into the scoop. Not a big deal but worth a mention. I give this 8/10.

Dorian Yates NOX Pump- Decent. I used this years ago and it was incredible. This time nowhere as good so the formula must be different (something got banned). Maybe better than decent as with an espresso I am an animal in the gym. This an a single espresso was a fav of mine for a while. With an extra kick this product can score a 9.5/10 but alone it's a solid 8/10.

Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped- Probably the strongest pre workout I have ever taken in regards to stimulants. I really enjoyed this and if you like your stimulants definitely try it out. The one area this really stands out in is the added mental focus. Overall I give it an 8/10.

Nutrabio PRE- Very good product full of useful ingredients at effective doses. It's what I call a complete pre workout but it just misses that wow factor. I would give it an 8/10.

Run Everything Lab's EWP- This is a very good product but it's effectiveness lowered fairly quickly. It gives me a good boost in energy and pumps. Overall a 8/10.

ProSupps Mr Hyde Zero- Everyone rates this very highly but it's nowhere near my favourite products. It's strong and great for energy but this left me breathless and I have used stronger products without that side effect. Although it still scores fairly highly at 8/10.

Gaspari SP250- Very good. Better for energy and focus than pumps bit overall a great pre workout. It did make me crash a bit later on though. I would get the shakes too. Very strong even at just 1 scoop and it is not a 1 scoop formula so be careful when upping the dose. I would give it an 8/10.

Universal's Fury- A very basic but solid product. Contains everything you need in a pre workout though. Green apple flavour is the sweetest pre workout I have ever tried. I like that but many won't. Solid product and scores an 8/10.

Brawn Nutrition's Venom 2.0-Not for the stimulant sensitive. Although this didn't feel as strong as I intially thougth it would be. Overall a very good product and I rate it an 8/10.

SAN's Fierce ***ination- Nice energy, feel and good pumps. Doesn't have the wow factor but for most it would be a solid product to try. I give it an 8/10.

BSN's NO Xplode 3.0- Good product and well worth a try. Very long lasting energy with this one. Includes many useful ingredients. Do not shake this one and just stir it. Overall an 8/10.

Grenade's .50 Caliber- It comes in fireball flavour and this is unique to any bb products. Some will love the taste and many will hate it. I quite like it but chilli flavour is unusual. This delivers in all areas and most should enjoy it. Overall I give it an 8/10.

Black Magic Bzrk- This is a solid product but very standard in today's market. If you respond well to DMHA you should like this one as it contains 200mg amongst other stimulants. Great focus, energy and pumps. It also tastes great which is rare (peach ring flavour). I would give it an 8/10.

Strom Sports Stimumax Black Edition (tub)- This is hard to score as it can hit me very differently each time. It lacks something to help balance out the stimulants (as do many stimulant preworkouts). As a result I would sometimes crash from this when using higher doses. I wouldn't recommend taking this on an empty stomach. It's still very good so it's gonna be a generous 8/10.

HR Labs Defib- On paper it looks amazing and contains everything you need and more. It was good but does not live up to the ingredient panel which is very common with preworkout supplements. I was expecting much more from 400mg caffeine, 200mg dynamine and 500mg citicoline. That is a great trio of ingredients at decent doses but I was underwhelmed. It's still a very good product and provides good pumps and clean energy. It just made an 8/10.

Hydrapharm Hydrazine- I only used a 2 cap sample serving for this product. At that dose it hit me much faster than what was listed on the label. It started with the most intense focus I had felt in a long time. However over a relatively short time it faded so overall I was disappointed. It's still very good and I am sure many will love it but after such an intense start it was disappointment. It's worth adding these caps should be great when added to other preworkouts to enhance focus. I would still give 2 caps 7.5/10.

Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme- I have knocked this down from a 9.5/10. When I used this again it's performance was completely different. The ingredient list is the same but my response completely different. It only contains 80mg caffeine per scoop but this is not a stimulant thing. Even the pump factor is a fraction of the past. I can speculate why but no point as the main factor is how it performs now. Good pumps and energy. 2 scoops is a 7.5/10.

Nutrex Hemo Rage The Underground- Very similar to Hemo Rage black and gives great energy. Nothing incredible but a solid product. I rate it 7.5/10.

GAT PMP- A similar but improved version of Nitraflex. This really grew on me but nothing spectacular. Overall a good product though and I give it a 7.5/10.

Nutrex Outlift- Very good product but not as good as the label suggests. It's similar to PRE JYM in many ways but not as effective. I would give it a 7.5/10.

Nutrex's Hemo Rage Black- This is all about energy and a decent product but not as good as many others I have tried. Although I feel really good on this one. Overall I give it a 7.5/10.

Lee Lebrada Super Charge Xtreme 4.0- Initially I was not impressed at all but it did improve over time. Not a cheap pre workout either. It's meant to have a lot of caffeine in but I feel a single espresso more than 1 scoop. Might be ok for some but definitely not for me. 1 scop would be 5/10 and 2 scoops 7.5/10.

Blackstone Labs Dust v2- Nice flow of energy and great pumps. Not as strong as I thought it would be. Overall a decent preworkout and 7.5/10.

Applied Nutrition ABE (All Black Everything)- this is a good product that performs well but nothing incredible. Good energy, focus and pumps with this one. The flavour is really different in the fact it is energy flavour so tastes just like a red bull. Although I notice they offer many flavours in this product. Nearly all the creatine is CM so obviously the cheaper source so pointless even putting in the 0.25g of other creatines. They do that so they can mention their tri-creatine blend. It contains 100mg teacrine so you really feel that. I used a sample and think if you dosed 1.5 scoops this could be really good. For 1 serving I would give it 7.5/10. 

Beast Yourself Raging Bull- Very good. On paper it is incredible but doesn't live on to that. Really good pumps and combined with an espresso it comes alive even more. I would give it a 7.5/10.

PRE-KAGED by Kaged Muscle- An excellent ingredient list and as a result a very expensive pre workout. Similar to PRE JYM in many ways. Overall a good product but doesn't have the wow factor. Overall I give it an 7.5/10.

APS Nutrition Mesomorph- This is literally the highest rated preworkout on the forums. I was very disappointed with it. Some people just don't respond to DMAA like others. Although for me there is more to it than that. Mesomorph is obviously strong but I don't feel it in a good way. It can make me a bit out of breath but I don't feel insane focus etc. It's not bad but I just don't feel great on it and I have tried 1/2 of a scoop to 1.5 scoops. I also seem to crash from it and many times would feel very tired after the gym. I would give it 7.5/10.

Dynamik's Gamma Ray- This is more of a compliment product in my eyes. It's the pump product for Savage Roar. If you are judging it solely it's nothing spectacular but when added to a traditonal pre workout it can be really special. Not as effective as Full as Fuck but a very good product. Judging it solely as a pump product I would give it a 7.5/10.

 Controlled Labs Orange Brainwash- This is more of a nootropic so should be used to improve cognitive function (memory, creativity and motivation). I used this for the same reason as De Novo's Utopia. On paper this looks much better but in real life I prefer Utopia. It's still worth trying if you need something to give you a mental boost through the day without being over stimulated. It's also useful for cardio as it does contain 150mg caffeine and 2000mg ALCAR. Overall a decent 7.5/10.

DS (Driven Sports) Frenzy- much better than I thought it would be from reading the label. Great energy and focus and no crash afterwards. I didn't notice much for the pumps on this one (energy formula) but they are usually good anyway (next to no pump ingredients and inadequate doses). The flavour was really unusual as it was purposely very fizzy (orange pop). They recommend 1-2 servings so this could get better if dosed higher. For 1 serving I give 7/10.

USN 3XT Pump- The only thing this does for pumps is the name of the product. It's all energy and very good at that. Some may like this but I wouldn't run out to buy it. Overall a 7/10.

5% Nutrition's Kill It Reloaded- A very well rounded product but missing the wow factor. Performs in all areas but doesn't stand out in anyway. Many ingredients could be dosed higher and that would have given it a much higher score. Many seem to really like it but I much preferred their 5150 product. Overall a decent 7/10.

MHP's Reckless- This was a 2 serving sachet so my review is limited to just 1 usage. The initial energy surge was great but it faded really quickly and overall this product is lacking. I can imagine 1 serving would be a waste for me. 2 servings scores a 7/10.

Goku Gains by Furious Formulations- As I always post tolerance to stimulants is a massive factor. For someone used to DMHA and other stronger stimulants this product is very standard. However, after a long break or if new to stronger stimulants this could be great for you. Although some of it's ingredients need to be dosed higher for optimal results. I also had issues with my blood glucose with this product and it made me go hypo a few times. In today's market there are many better products. As a result I give this 7/10.

Driven Sports Rize- This product is harder to score as it hit me very differently each day. With the stronger stimulants your recent food intake becomes a much bigger factor in regards to effecting performance and side effects. If I didn't have a large meal closer to training with this product I would often crash very hard from it. Although it would always hit me fast and felt great but that feeling would quickly decline. As a result I don't recommend it as there are many better alternatives. Although 1 scoop (tub says 1-2 scoops) with added caffeine makes a good combination. It still get's a score of 7/10.

Universal's Shock Therapy- I have lowered this down after using the full tub. I would recommend this one for beginners. Performs in all areas but I need to use 2 scoops and at that dose rate it 6.5/10.

Scivation Quake 10.0- What a disappointment. Looks really good on paper but doesn't perform. The pumps are good but no real energy or focus for me. Overall a 6.5/10.

5% Nutrition KILL IT- This one I only tried a sample so take this review with a pinch of salt. I wasn't impressed and expected/hoped for better as I like 5%. Didn't notice too much but again only a sample. Overall a 6/10 but with more scoops could be much better.

Dymatize Nutrition's M.P.ACT Energy Ignitor- a pretty standard product and hits you fairly strong but I didn't like the feel from it. There are much better products on the market but still a 6/10. 

GAT Nitraflex- Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice. I would give it a 5/10.

MAN Sports NOOPump- This is another stimulant free pre workout. I was disappointed using this and it's nowhere as effective as Full as Fuck. It's not a bad product but there are much better out there. Overall I rate it a 5/10.

Warrior Rage- Marketed as one of the strongest pre workouts but didn't do much. I would not recommend it. I give it a 3/10

Condemned Labz Convict- On paper this looks ideal for me but it was terrible for me. I always felt out of breath on it even with 1 scoop. However it didn't feel strong nor did it give the focus and energy other product's do. It actually worsens my workouts which is strange for a pre workout. Maybe I should have tried a very small serving for a little booster but I gave my tub away. Most seem to love it though and it's rated very highly. For me it has to be a 1/10.

MRI Black Powder- Crap. Not even worth writing more about. How can you fuck up a pre workout so much. 2 pro plus would be better. Rating is the worst in my list and 1/1.


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## Elvia1023

I just have to add in 3 products to my list that I have tried many times recently. They are Myoblox's Loco Cinco XO, OuttenFit Nutrition's Revive V2 and Inspired DVST8. I will receive another tub of Excelsior on Monday and looking forward to trying it out again. Otherwise I have no other new preworkouts but I will likely order Alpha Neon's Darkside and Naughtyboy Lifestyle's Menace in the near future. I do have 1 amp of Sopharma's injectable ephedrine at 50mg/ml to use if I ever feel like it


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## Joey121

I was taking a look at your list. That's a lot of preworkouts. It would be nice to have sample packets. I would pay on every online order I make to try different pres


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## Elvia1023

Joey121 said:


> I was taking a look at your list. That's a lot of preworkouts. It would be nice to have sample packets. I would pay on every online order I make to try different pres



Most big retailers often sell samples so it's worth adding them onto orders. Just look for them on their website. Sometimes you could even just write in the comments section on your order to please add as many preworkout samples as possible. Companies often get given massive amounts of samples for free and should have plenty. A lot of companies even sell things such as a 3 sample serving for people to try out their product. Although I tend to get full tubs so I can analzye the product better as 1 time is usually not enough. But sure 1 day is enough to see if something is good or not.


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## Elvia1023

I have my excelsior and I got another 2 capsule sample of Hydrazine to try out. I figured I would try the later tonight. I prefer using full tubs of products so I can judge them over a period of time. Obviously you know if something is good or bad after 1 go but often my opinion changes on something after many uses. Hydrazine gets incredible reviews in the UK with many stating it's the best preworkout ever. It's expensive so I wasn't going to buy a whole tub when I only scored it 7.5/10 last time so I went with a 2 cap sample. I figured give it another go and see if how it is. Anyway here is my old review...

Hydrapharm Hydrazine- I only used a 2 cap sample serving for this product. At that dose it hit me much faster than what was listed on the label. It started with the most intense focus I had felt in a long time. However over a relatively short time it faded so overall I was disappointed. It's still very good and I am sure many will love it but after such an intense start it was disappointment. It's worth adding these caps should be great when added to other preworkouts to enhance focus. I would still give 2 caps 7.5/10.

After taking it again I pretty much was spot on. This time I took it much closer to training. It was just hitting me as I got to the gym so perfect timing. The initial focus is incredible. I felt good but again the effects die down relatively quickly. I also noticed I was breathing very heavily and I was sweating profusely. I always sweat because I train hard but this was ridiculous. At one point I also felt a bit off but I still had a great session. Now I state the effects fade away but I just mean the intense focus but I am still sat here 9 hours later wide awake when I should have gone to bed about 5 hours ago  All in all it's definitely worth trying if you don't mind paying the high cost. I think it would work well with another stimulant preworkoput but 2 caps would be too much. So using 1 cap with a scoop of a good pre workout could have a great effect. Although I am sure 1 cap wouldn't give the intense focus that 2 caps provides. I can't experiment more and even though it is very good I won't be buying a full tub. I still give it a 7.5/10 but I am sure many will love it on here. Everyone is different and when it comes to strong stimulant products the potential to be off point (for some people) is fairly large but I can see why this is very popular.


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## Elvia1023

I have been meaning to post about this for awhile. I have been experiemnting with Excelsior again recently. It's worth noting on most strong products that recommend 1 scoop I always end up using more than 1 scoop so I can take a high dose of stimulants. Now the label on Excelsior recommends 1-2 scoops which is bizarre to me as there is no way I would ever try 2 scoops.

Ok so on the first day on my new tub of Excelsior I figured my sensitivity is not as high as I have been dosing high amounts of other pre workouts that are fairly strong and I am not getting a strong effect. I also wanted to start with a bang so I figured do 1.5 scoops. During my last run I would use 1.5 scoops as a max but often use a bit less as it would hit me too hard. Anyway so I take 1.5 scoops and go to the gym. This stuff is literally unlike any other preworkout I have ever taken. Now this is in a bad way because I was so wired I couldn't even focus. I had 101 things in my head and it was making me think about each one rapidly. So in my head I was planning out what I was going to eat post workout, then the meal after, how I had to do washing, how I had to post in x thread, update my log, reply to that email etc etc. I also sometimes fidget but this stuff had me looking like a crackhead 

I have since moved down to 1 scoop and at a max 1 1/4 scoop and that is a sweet spot. If I have no distractions and use closer to 1 scoop the focus is crazy and I have the most brutal workouts. This stuff also keeps me wide awake long after using it. Forgot about ensuring you have about 5 hours before bed this stuff will have me wide awke and full of clean energy 9 hours after taking it. Everyone is different but for most I would make sure you have at least 8 hours before you plan to go to bed before taking this.

Many go on about old and very strong preworkouts and how they miss them and everything is crap these days. Here is your answer and it's well worth trying. I doubt it will be available much longer but who knows. I would love to see a test done on it's ingredients


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## Viking

Excelsior sounds great but I see it's expensive.


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## Elvia1023

I just posted this in another thread but realized it probably should go in here as well so will add it here just incase people miss it elsewhere. Many are always looking for an alternative to give them a boost in energy or focus so this could be worth experimenting with. As have mentioned this in the past they seem to be getting very popular but I want to go over mushrooms again. I usually cook them with some onions, peppers and various other veg to go with my meat. Although there are some powdered products that are very concentrated and can be very beneficial. Many may have seen mushroom powder starting to get added into various pre workouts and there is good reason for that. They often go in a blend (*PeakO2®*) and they can have significant cognitive benefits. The focus alone from mushroom powder can be great. So if any of you suffer from faitgue or just need a boost I would recommend trying mushroom powder.

If I had to pick one mushroom variety for energy/focus it would probably be *Cordyceps *but most of them are great. *Lion's mate* gets mentioned quite a lot as well. I have just started using *Reishi mushroom powder* and you feel the boost from that instantly. The only issue with reishi is it's extremely bitter and tastes horrible. I would recommend having it with a small amount of water or even in a shot of espresso for a great boost in energy. On top of the energy they are really good for overall immunity and have the potential to help with blood glucose regulation amongst other things. You can even buy *PeakO2®* powder which I haven't used by itself but it would be worth experimenting with for many on here after a natural product to help with fatigue and overall energy/focus.


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## Elvia1023

I have had a trapped nerve in my back recently so have only trained at home once. As all the gyms are closed I will have a break from all strong preworkouts. Although I will be training very hard at home soon but for those workouts I have some sachets of The Curse which are very useful. Just 250mg caffeine per sachet but a nice and needed boost as I will be training pretty much non stop for approx 1 hour (not counting any cardio done).


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## Finz

Elvia1023 said:


> I have had a trapped nerve in my back recently so have only trained at home once. As all the gyms are closed I will have a break from all strong preworkouts. Although I will be training very hard at home soon but for those workouts I have some sachets of The Curse which are very useful. Just 250mg caffeine per sachet but a nice and needed boost as I will be training pretty much non stop for approx 1 hour (not counting any cardio done).



Hey, Elvia! I’m the dude on pro muscle that used to talk up Excelsior with you all the time lol. But you were the one that got me to try it first. I’m the 2 scoop guy but recently I’ve gone back to using Alpha GPC to renew my sensors alongside my pretty high stim intake. So now I’m able to get by on 1.25 scoops plus ephedrine and some kratom. Great preworkout combo.

It’s been probably 1.5 years since I found Excelsior and as much as I’d like to use something else in my rotation, nothing I’ve tried can hold a candle to it. I haven’t been following your preworkout thread lately so I’m wondering if you have come across anything remotely close to Excelsior that’s worth me buying? Thanks homie, hope all is well with ya.


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## bigmg

I’m not sure if anyone else has seen it yet but the new cellucor c4 rewrote that pre game jus recently with by farrrr the most stacked ingredient profile list I’ve eva seen . One big catch though. That shit is pricey as hellllll.


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## Elvia1023

Finz said:


> Hey, Elvia! I’m the dude on pro muscle that used to talk up Excelsior with you all the time lol. But you were the one that got me to try it first. I’m the 2 scoop guy but recently I’ve gone back to using Alpha GPC to renew my sensors alongside my pretty high stim intake. So now I’m able to get by on 1.25 scoops plus ephedrine and some kratom. Great preworkout combo.
> 
> It’s been probably 1.5 years since I found Excelsior and as much as I’d like to use something else in my rotation, nothing I’ve tried can hold a candle to it. I haven’t been following your preworkout thread lately so I’m wondering if you have come across anything remotely close to Excelsior that’s worth me buying? Thanks homie, hope all is well with ya.



It's great hearing from you. 2 scoops is crazy to me and I can take 600mg caffeine in one go with no issues. When I restarted it after a long break I tried 1.5 scoops and I was too wired. Before my gym closed I would do 1 1/3 max and that felt great. Like with any stimulant you do need the breaks as they stop working as effectively. 

Have you ever tried to come off all the stimulants but just stay on things like alpha gpc, l-carnitine, vitamin b12, mushroom powder etc?

Unfortunately I haven't come across anything. I have seen a few advertised but I don't know how they perform. Google searches can come across DMAA products for example but I was never a fan of that. I know the company Bostin Loyd was associated with had a strong preworkout. Have you seen or tried that one yet?

I plan to order Hyphymud 2.0 again as I really like that.


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## Elvia1023

I noticed MUTANT are the brand of the month in the promuscle store. I have always liked their products but haven't used their preworkout yet. It's ingredient panel isn't the best for pumps (very poor) but I like it's stimulant blend (basic but effective). My mate has used it and said he loved it and he has used many preworkouts. For most on here they should like the stimulant blend. I love their iso surge, rehab and a few other products. Rehab is basic but one of the best intra formulas I have ever used (it tastes amazing). They usually do sales so I would wait for those over the next few days. Although I see they have 25% off so 1 tub of Mutant Madness would be $12.09 which is a steal. Add their isosurge or mutant whey to that and you are gtg.


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## Elvia1023

bigmg said:


> I’m not sure if anyone else has seen it yet but the new cellucor c4 rewrote that pre game jus recently with by farrrr the most stacked ingredient profile list I’ve eva seen . One big catch though. That shit is pricey as hellllll.



Do you mean C4 Ultimate? It looks good but I wouldn't quite state rewrote the pre game. I will definitely try it when I get the chance. When I try the amazing ingredient panel formulas they often under perform but hopefully this is different.


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## Elvia1023

Today I tried another scahet of The Curse and it felt great. It's only 250mg caffeine but during a big break that is enough to get a great effect for my home workouts. I am a fan of The Curse as it's very versatile. When I get the chance I will probably order a tub as it's useful to have for certain training (cardio) days. My gf also can use it as it's pretty basic and not too strong so it's great for her as well. When my gym finally opens again if I take Excelsior I will probably be a mess after months off


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## Finz

Elvia1023 said:


> It's great hearing from you. 2 scoops is crazy to me and I can take 600mg caffeine in one go with no issues. When I restarted it after a long break I tried 1.5 scoops and I was too wired. Before my gym closed I would do 1 1/3 max and that felt great. Like with any stimulant you do need the breaks as they stop working as effectively.
> 
> Have you ever tried to come off all the stimulants but just stay on things like alpha gpc, l-carnitine, vitamin b12, mushroom powder etc?
> 
> Unfortunately I haven't come across anything. I have seen a few advertised but I don't know how they perform. Google searches can come across DMAA products for example but I was never a fan of that. I know the company Bostin Loyd was associated with had a strong preworkout. Have you seen or tried that one yet?
> 
> I plan to order Hyphymud 2.0 again as I really like that.



Yessir! I tried Boston’s mix. Several tubs actually. Was ok. Think it had DMAA and ephedrine in it. No, haven’t taken a stim break in about 5 years. I’m having surgery to repair an umbilical hernia next winter. Probably use that down time to do that.


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## AGGRO

Are people still using pre workouts for home workouts? I have dymatize's pre and should be ordering mutant madness soon. Do you think they are wasted at home?


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## Elvia1023

AGGRO said:


> Are people still using pre workouts for home workouts? I have dymatize's pre and should be ordering mutant madness soon. Do you think they are wasted at home?



It's a good point and I know some people are using half scoops for home workouts. I guess it all depends upon how intense you plan to train. Everyone has a different set up and some could be deadlifting and squatting heavy weight at home. Others could be doing push ups and 30lb resistance bands movements like me  My last workotu was super intense though and I wanted to use a preworkout to get me motivated because I have struggled with that recently.

I think if you're going to be training hard both of those pre workouts would be fine to take. Now if someone is just going to be doing some pull ups, push ups and some abs they probably don't need any or perhaps half a scoop. I have been using the sachets of the curse with 250mg caffeine with great effect. I wouldn't use something like excelsior at home as it's too much but a standard preworkout with some caffeine I think as long as you are training hard go for it. There are definitely no set rules so just use what you think you need.


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## Elvia1023

For my recent home workouts I figured to use up some of my preworkouts I probably wouldn't use if the gyms were open. One of those is Inspired DVST8 (white tub) which on paper looks fairly strong but it definitely nothing special and was a disappointment for me. The stimulants in a full 2 scoop serving contain 350mg caffeine, 120mg dynamine, 300mg N-Phenethyl Dimethylamine (Eria Jarensis Extract) and 100mg Theobromine. It does hit in great and I feel a surge of energy but it's very short lived. The stimulants are all fairly fast acting ones but I expected a bit more from the ingredient panel. All in all still a decent product but it definitely falls short when compared to the many other similar products on the market. 

There is a "White Diamond Reserve" version (white tub) of the same product and I see it's similar but with a few other stimulants added and I can see that would perform better so would be worth trying especially if you ever see it in a sale. Although now they have released a DVST8 Worldwide version in a black tub and that does look really good. It includes similar ingredients but the noticeable addition of Arginine Nitrate, Peak02 and KannaEase. I know they have it on the website I use regularly so I might add one next time I order.


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## Finz

For basic preworkout blends I have found some of the Arez God of the Gym mixes to be pretty decent. Nothing compared to Excelsior but maybe enough for a half assed home workout.

There’s a company called Fitness Stacks that has a preworkout capsule that I really like. I still take a half scoop of a regular preworkout with it but I recommend them. The product is called Hyper Stack and has my favorite preworkout mood enhancing ingredients. I don’t care about pump ingredients. That’s what real gear is for.


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## Elvia1023

I want to bring up the importance of nutrition and sensitivity when it comes to stimulants and preworkouts. A good example of the point I am trying to make is a review I read about Excelsior recently. The guy who done it wrote it out on his own webpage and to me had no common sense because of how he reviewed the product. Now any product is going to have mixed reviews no matter how good it is because even if 9 people love something you will always get 1 who dislikes it. Excelsior will be hated by some because of whatever reason (too strong etc). But the review this guy gave the product was silly. He basically wasn't a stim junkie and he had a very light breakfast then took 1.5 scoops. He said it was amazing in the gym but he crashed so hard and as a result he will never use it again and he scored it very low. Obviously you would think why not just take 1 scoop first time round and use some common sense and eat properly first. Or if he doesn't like 1.5 scoops try 0.5 scoops 2nd time round and go from there. For me there is a massive difference taking 1.5 or 1 scoop.

You also have to be careful taking strong stimulants especially when you haven't ate properly as you process them so much faster. I can take very strong stimulants but the other day I had a very light breakfast then waited around and I had an espresso. It was just with the nespresso machine so no more than 100mg caffeine max. I went to the shop and I was stood there wired off my head feeling a bit off because that is what happens to me when I take even just caffeine on a very empty stomach. I couldn't imagine taking 1.5 scoops of Excelsior on an empty stomach I would be manic  It can really make that much of a difference so you need to adjust your dose accordingly. So if any of you are not stim junkies and try something strong I would recommend starting with a low-standard dose and always have food beforehand (1 hour or so).

I actually decided yesterday to have 1 scoop of Excelsior before training at home. It was quite late and I was taking my dog on a walk first so I figured take it beforehand as it builds up slowly and train when I get back. I also wanted to use it to give me focus/energy for working on the computer after training as well. 1 scoop for me was very steady and I was not wired in any way and it felt fairly light but the thing with Excelsior it just keeps you going. It was my mistake taking it so late because I couldn't sleep. I didn't even try as I was focused on working and beign productive so it can be used with great effect for all day energy and productivity. Just don't take it very late as you will be up at 8am thinking wtf  Now if I would have taken just 1/2 scoop more I would have been wired so there is a massive difference in effect with different doses and it made me think of that 1.5 scoop review again. I would be annoyed if I worked for a company and someone tried my product and took 50% more dose on an empty stomach 1st time round then complained they crashed and scored it very low online when the product is labelled as a very strong stimulant and to be taken with care.


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## BulkPowders

Very detailed,  Thank you


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## Elvia1023

Are there any pre workouts people have their eye on? If you can't personally use it would you like me or others on here to try and rate before you buy? My only issue is I tend to order from certain sites and they have limited stock but I will see if any match up to products you guys recommend. The products that have caught my eye on one particular site are:

JP Pre Stim
Arm's Race Harness
Performax Labs HyperMax Extreme
Naughtboy Lifestyle Menace
SkullCandy Energy

I will order a few of those to try out for when the gym's reopen. The bottom one looks very interesting so that is a definite. JP's stim is basic but looks very good so I will get that as well. I will add somethign else in as well so I have a few to play with.


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## Elvia1023

Your nutrition around training can really make a massive impact on your workout. Both in general and when using a pre workout. The impact on the effects of pump ingredients and stimulants can be huge. You sometimes have to be careful when taking high stimulants on an empty stomach. Food in your stomach will slow down the absorption and often the impact of many products. Even if you have a black coffee compared to a coffee with milk the mental effects can be vastly different. 

When using strong stimulants (DMAA, DMHA etc) you have to be careful. I used 1 scoop of Excelsior tonight on an empty stomach and the effects were crazy. The euphoria was amazing and the effects hit me much faster and were much more pronounced. I used the same amount for my other 2 workouts recently but with a stomach full of food and there was a massive difference. I have experimented with this many times over the years with multiple products and it's always the same. 

I figured it was worth mentioning just incase you want to feel more bang from your preworkouts. Although at the same time when doing this I would always recommend eating a decent meal a few hours before training. I have a fast metabolism so if I get hungry I will just have a banana and a small protein snack/shake to keep me going without overfilling me and I am gtg.

I have ordered Myprotein's latest preworkout. Nothing spectacular but a good all round ingredient panel. I was ordering aminos and some krill oil so added it on. It's called The Preworkout+

Serving Size - 1 scoop (18g)
Servings Per Container - 20 Servings (360g)​

Active Ingredients

Per Daily Serving (18g) 
L-Citrulline 6 g 
Beta-Alanine 3.2 g 
Betaine Anhydrous 1.5 g 
N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine 1 g 
Taurine 1 g 
Caffeine (Caffeine Anhydrous
 & PhaseTech™ Caffeine Beadlet) 300 mg 
Green Tea Extract (Leaf) (as VASO6™)  300 mg 
Alpha GPC (Glycerophosphoryl Choline) 150 mg 
Hawthorn Berry 10:1 150 mg 
L-Theanine 100 mg 
Vitamin C 75 mg (94%*) 
AstraGin® 50 mg 
Huperzine A 20 mg 
BioPerine® (Black Pepper Extract) 5 mg 
Niacin 3 mg (19%*) 
Vitamin B1 1.1 mg (100%*) 
Vitamin B12 15 μg (60%*) 

* NRV - Nutrient Reference Value​


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## Elvia1023

I tried MyProtein's Preworkout+ for the first time yesterday. If I take even 100mg caffeine on an empty stomach I do feel it loads. However it's true my tolerance for caffeine is high. As a result I took 1.5 scoops yesterday which totals 450mg caffeine. Most people would only need 1 scoop so 300mg caffeine. I was very impressed with it. It felt great and it hit me very hard but I experienced no crash afterwards. The pump was great and all in all a very good preworkout.

I sometimes take products and I wonder do they actually contain what is stated. The taste alone can be a good indicator at times as well. With this I could taste the pepper extract a lot and soon came the beta alanine tingles. Great energy and pumps and I am pleased with how it felt. I used Excelsior today so I will try the preworkout+ again tomorrow so I can better access it. 

I know I took 1.5 scoops but the fact I can feel this so much a day after taking such a strong product (Excelsior) is only a good sign as well. For guys who like to use more exotic/strong stimulants I like to rotate to a higher caffeine product in between as I feel it's a good approach to keep sensitivity higher for each product due to the rotation and of course the non training day breaks from both.


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## Elvia1023

I used the last of my Excelsior tub today  I actually ordered from the site that sells it the other day but left it out. I left it out mainly due to the insane price over here (£66) and my shopping cart was already stacked up. Although after using the last of the tub today I feel like I should get more. I will wait and see what my new ones feel like first. Today I had about 3/4 of a scoop left and I added a bit of a weak product I have and the combo worked great. I have been dosing a little syntheselen recently as well and even just 1.5ml of that has a great effect on me.

As posted I have been extremely impressed with My Protein's Preworkout+ and I am actually nearly out of that as well. Hopefully my new order comes soon as I have a few new ones to try out. I just realized there are 3 muscletech products  No reason for that just the best looking products on a limited website. I use the site for health supplements but they have some more standard preworkouts on there as well.

Muscletech Vapor 1 (2 tubs of this).
Muscletech Peak Series Preworkout .
Muscletech Performance Series Hydroxcut Hardcore Elite Powder. This cost me $13 so I just added it in. It's marketed as a fatburner but it's loaded in stimulants and a really good blend of them.
Fusion Supplements Obliterate.
MuscleSport Rhino Rampage.


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## Elvia1023

I am currently going through the products I never use until my new preworkouts are delivered. I am out of anything I rate highly. Tonight before legs I used 1 scoop of OFN's Revive V2 and 1 scoop of Strom Sports STIMUmax Black so I was loaded up and it felt great. I was disappointed with both of these products at their 1 scoop serving. I have tried 1.5 scoops of both but still didn't rate them highly. I once tried 2 scoops of OFN's Revive V2 (it states up to 2 scoops in 24 hours) and it felt good at first but quickly dropped off. The 1 scoop of each had a really good effect so I will probably use them again when I need a big kick.


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## Elvia1023

I have been impressed with Muscletech's Vapor 1 and Muscletech's Peak Series Preworkout recently. I have been rotating them each training day. I may even like the later more so far which I didn't expect. I will experiment with both of them more but so far great pumps and great energy. Nothing over the top but both are very feel good products and haven't given me any negatives even with over 1 scoop. Definitely in the 8-9/10 range so far.


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## Elvia1023

I ordered a couple of stronger preworkouts. The site also sells some grey area things and I added in epistane and the pack has been seized  It's very strict where I live but I figured with all the eaa's, preworkouts and other standard supps it would just pass through. I am not sure what is happening now but I will find out soon. So it looks like it will be a while before I get to try those preworkouts  So I am basically just rotating Muscletech's Peak Series Pre and Vapor 1 each session now and enjoying them both. I tried about 60% of a scoop of both recently and that felt great.


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## Elvia1023

I received my 2 new preworkouts so things worked out fine. I decided to use MuscleSport's Rhino Rampage straightaway. I used 1 serving (2 small scoops) before my PUSH workout. I am impressed and it felt really good but I need to experiment more. I felt a bit off 2 hours post workout but it may have been something else. So I will experiment with it over the next week and report how it goes.


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## Elvia1023

Not a surprise but after using Rhino Rampage I ended up staying up very late and had more energy than usual. I have had a day off today but I will train tomorrow. I may save Rhino Rampage for legs in 2 days and just go with Muscletech's Peak Series for my pull workout tomorrow.

I also have Fusion Supplements Obliterate on hand as well but may save that for a few weeks time. Obliterate gets a lot of great reviews stating it's extremely strong and how they can't sleep for hours. How it's on par with the original Jack3d. Many report a massive crash from it though. The company sells a lot of grey area products like nanodrol (m-sten), hdrol and sdrol etc so it doesn't surprise me their preworkout is extremely strong.


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## ASHOP

What's the 'hot' ingredients these days in a pre workout formula? I havent used one in awhile and the ones I always liked were AMP Citrate and DMAA based products.


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## Elvia1023

ASHOP said:


> What's the 'hot' ingredients these days in a pre workout formula? I havent used one in awhile and the ones I always liked were AMP Citrate and DMAA based products.



I really liked AMP citrate but was never a huge fan of DMAA. They always come and go and they bring out something similar. Very often the chemical structure is near identical and it's just a variation of what was banned before. These days the main one are the different forms (synthetic and natural) of DMHA. I prefer it to DMAA as it's a lot smoother but doesn't hit in as hard.


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## Elvia1023

I have been using Rhino Rampage and Fusion Supplements Obliterate recently. I have used Rhino Rampage a lot and Obiliterate just twice so far. I have to state both of these are fantastic. They are both up there with the best I have used. I gave my mate one serving of Rhino Rampage and he thought it was incredible. He said it's the 2nd best preworkout he has ever used (Excelsior is his first). I only get benefits from Rhino Rampage and no side effects so it's definitely up there.

In the reviews many reported a major crash from Fusion Supplements Obliterate. I did experience one first time round but nothing too bad. This time I have felt great and it's been about 10 hours since I dosed it. The feel good factor for this one is incredible and it even beats Rhino Rampage. Both times I have taken it I have wanted to go crazy in the gym. I am injured (training around it) now and purposely used it to give me a big boost and it really did. I usually just comment on effectiveness but it's worth mentioning if using 1 scoop you get 25 servings and I didn't pay too much for it so the value of money is there (compared to some I have used recently). Plus 1 scoop of this hits me very hard. It's worth nothing the "shrinkage" is major like excelsior and it makes me think something extra has been added to it. The company who makes it sells a lot of strong products. The flavour is tiger blood but it tastes like a tropical cocktail (pineapple and coconut etc).


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## Barn1234

Anyone else felt like they were getting an asthma attack when doing intense cardio after using pre-workout? 

I've had to bail out of rowing/running before now as I've gone hypoxic and felt like I was about to black out.


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## Elvia1023

Barn1234 said:


> Anyone else felt like they were getting an asthma attack when doing intense cardio after using pre-workout?
> 
> I've had to bail out of rowing/running before now as I've gone hypoxic and felt like I was about to black out.



You must have taken too much and/or a stimulant that you don't react well to. It's not uncommon for them to get you too hyped up and increase your heart rate so when stressing it with cardio it's too much. Others may even get anxiety from too many stimulants and that combined with cardio and an increased heart rate could cause bad issues. 

I have taken too much at times and it's negatively effected my breathing and pretty much ruined my workout. Plus that was just lifting weights and moving around the gym and not doing intensive cardio. I used to react badly at times to DMAA and higher doses of caffeine.


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## ASHOP

Elvia1023 said:


> I really liked AMP citrate but was never a huge fan of DMAA. They always come and go and they bring out something similar. Very often the chemical structure is near identical and it's just a variation of what was banned before. These days the main one are the different forms (synthetic and natural) of DMHA. I prefer it to DMAA as it's a lot smoother but doesn't hit in as hard.



Thanks Elvia.


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## Jonny

Just N.O. fury and caffeine for me. I try not to use the stims. Just want to watch my ticker.


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## ASHOP

Jonny said:


> Just N.O. fury and caffeine for me. I try not to use the stims. Just want to watch my ticker.



For myself personally the stimulant effect in these are too strong and lasts far too long and then often I will end up 'crashing' at some point of the day.


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## Jonny

ASHOP said:


> For myself personally the stimulant effect in these are too strong and lasts far too long and then often I will end up 'crashing' at some point of the day.



I know..ephedra made me crash hard. Working out was great but after that hour. I'm sleeping.


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## ASHOP

Jonny said:


> I know..ephedra made me crash hard. Working out was great but after that hour. I'm sleeping.



Ephedra/Ephedrine were some of the worst for me as far as crashing.


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## Elvia1023

Tomorrow I will be using 2 caps of hydrazine for my preworkout. I am training legs so can't think of a better day to try it again. Today I received a fatburner I will be using as my new preworkout that has a very good reputation. It's called Thermo-Fuze by Driven Sports. I have also been experimenting with Naughty Boy Lifestyle Menace recently and more on that later.


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## Elvia1023

Tonight for my preworkout I used 2 caps of Thermo-Fuze by Driven Sports. I am very impressed. No crazy energy but amazing focus and feel good factor. I will experiment with it more and will be taking it most days. It's a fat burner but I definitely recommend it as a preworkout. It may take frequent dosing but it states it's a strong appetite suppressant but I didn't experience that at all. That's a good thing for me as I mainly bought it for some added energy and the intense focus the reviews stated it caused.


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## Elvia1023

I bought another tub of MyProtein's Preworkout+ which is a very good standard (no strong stimulants) preworkout. Although I have been having about 1.5 scoops so it works out at about 450mg caffeine per serving for me. That combined with 20mg avar, 10mg sdrol, 4ml synthetine and 3ml syntheselen and I have had some amazing workouts over the last few days.


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## Jethro

I like the nitroflex for the mental alertness and stamina but Ive become tolerant to it. I know the instructions recommended 8 weeks on and then time off but I've been using it for 3 months now. I found some MR. Hyde Icon on sale today so I think I will run that for the rest of the month.


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## Sibling

That’s what real gear is for.


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## *Bio*

Sibling said:


> That’s what real gear is for.



Get your post quality up and stick to the topic!


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## Finephysique

10 mg sdrol and 20 mg dbol fro a really intense workout. 

I have tried lots of pre workout drinks etc but those sort of stimulants just don’t agree with me. Can’t even drink a coffee.


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## Elvia1023

Dragon Pharma Venom is a very good preworkout. Nothing too strong but a nice kick to it plus great pumps. I will have to go over everything I have used in recent months properly and add them to the list but it is definitely a good one if you want something fairly strong without being loaded with exotic stims. My Protein's Preworkout+ is in the same category but even better and a fantastic product that covers all areas. Those are the main 2 I have been using recently. I was going to buy excelsior again but I can't believe it's gone up in price again in the UK to £72 ($93). It's worth it in many ways but just a stupid price to pay for a preworkout.


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## Elvia1023

I just ordered a new product and went with the Naughtyboy Menace's Halloween edition preworkout. They always list all doses for their products but have done a proprietary blend for the energy section in this particular product. It's 1000mg total so it's going to be loaded and should be strong. I like the addition of kanna amongst many other things as well. As you can see it's full of good doses of many ingredients...


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## Elvia1023

I have JP's new nootropic preworkout on the way to me. The new craze in the supplement industry are gamer products meaning stimulant/nootropic products for people who play video games. When I looked at the profile I was immediately impressed as it contains a variety of useful ingredients. Dial-In also contains a decent amount of stimulants so is ideal for me. The main reason I bought it is it should provide fantastic added focus looking at the ingredient panel. I will be using it as my new preworkout in the foreseeable future. The gym's are closed here but I will use it for some home workouts and could do with the extra focus to really make me push extra hard in a subpar training environment. By subpar training environment I mean in my kitchen with Flex trying to lick my face every time I try a press up


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## Elvia1023

I have used Dial In about 5 times now and it's very good. No surprise really with 350mg caffeine per scoop. Now I have only been using it before training at home but the focus is great. I haven't been taking in many stimulants so 350mg caffeine and all the other stuff hit's in hard. For what it is it's a great product. Most of these gamer products are much lower in caffeine and I can tell they thought due to the past to if anything overdo the caffeine. Meaning for gaming it will kick in very hard so you would be wired straightaway. It has the longer release caffeine which means it's a smooth ride and it stays with you awhile. All the other ingredients work well together (esepcially for improved focus) and overall it has a great effect. I would definitely recommend it for a preworkout or for someone who has a lot of work to do and wants the energy for it. For what it is I would say 8.5-9/10 so far.


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## Elvia1023

I left this again which I won't do again as I use so many products I lose track of specifics but I will try and go through everything I have used since last updating and putting them in my overall ratings table of products.

New Additions:

Inspired DVST8 (white tub)
Myprotein's Preworkout+
Muscletech Vapor1
Muscletech Peak Series Preworkout 
Muscletech Performance Series Hydroxcut Hardcore Elite Powder
Fusion Supplements Obliterate
MuscleSport Rhino Rampage
Thermo-Fuze by Driven Sports
JP Nutrition's Dial-In

Changes:

RedCon1 Total War- 9/10 to 8/10
Dynamik's Savage Roar- 9/10 to 8/10
More detailed review scores

*Imperial Nutrition Excelsior*- where do I start. Over time this went from an 8.5/10 to a 10/10 and back and forth. It's probably the best preworkout I have ever used. However it would sometimes make me feel a bit off but the positives always outweighed the negatives. The energy, focus and euphoria are incredible. It also lasts very long and I would find myself being super productive long after training. As a result this stuff can't be used anywhere near bed time (literally 6 hours at a complete minimum). Many use 1-2 scoops but 1.5 is more than enough for me. The intense euphoria occurs at the higher doses but I don't get any negatives at 1 scoop. At 1 scoop I don't crash and never get over wired but still get great energy and productivity for hours after training. This product is really a 9.5/10 due to the potential negatives but it has to be number 1 so I am going with a 10/10.
*
GSN's NitroNOX Pro*- This is amazing for energy, pumps, mood etc. It has everything and I recommend it to everyone. I would give it a 10/10. Unfortunately this product is no longer available which is a shame.

*Kali Muscle's Hyphy Mud 2.0*- I simply love this product. On paper it looks crap but it makes me feel like a machine. The energy and focus and overall feeling on this product is amazing. I want to give it a 10 but I guess it lacks in pumps so I will give it a 9.5/10.

*Dymatize PRE-* Fantastic product that provides clean energy and great pumps. It doesn't give the euphoria of Excelsior but it has no negative side effects for me. Ideal for someone who can't use strong stimulants such as DMAA and DMHA. It contains a good mix of caffeine (300mg) and teacrine (125mg). I like to use this during my breaks from the stronger stimulants. It deserves 9.5/10.

*Olympus Labs I Am Suprem3*- This is basically just like Re1gn but even better. I love this stuff and it has helped me through many great workouts. Even though it contains a variety of strong stimulants it never made me crash. It contains some very good ingredients including l-citrulline, pomegranite extract, vaso6, caffeine, julgans regia (dmha), eria jarensis and teacrine. The issue with this is the same as Re1gn and it contains some ingredients I find simply don't respond well in certain people. The main one being KannaEase. However my body must love the stuff as I think it's a great compliment to the strong stimulants. I will give this a top level 9.3/10.

*Myprotein's Preworkout+* A very well rounded preworkout that is ideal for someone who wants something fairly strong without any exotic stimulants. It contains 300mg caffeine per scoop and when I use 1.25-1.5 scoops the feeling is fantastic. The energy, focus and pumps are fantastic without any side effects. Through a typical week I like to rotate strong preworkouts with exotic stims with products with just standard stimulants (caffeine) that provide a kick but give me a break from the stronger stimulants. This preworkout (and Dymatize PRE) are top of my list for well rounded products that provide all the usual benefits with no side effects. A solid 9.3/10.

*5% Nutrition 5150*- This gets mixed reviews but I love it. It's not as strong as many may think but I get great energy, pumps and a euphoric feeling shortly after dosing. It's also one of the nicest pre workouts I have ever tasted (pomegranate and passion fruit flavours). Overall an easy 9.2/10.

*Olympus Labs Re1gn-* this is a great product. Amazing energy and good pumps. I had some amazing workouts using this and it was very useful on days I was demotivated. It contains some unusual ingredients and I respond great to them. However some (KannaEase for example) may make some people feel sick/off (you have been warned). I would give this an 9.2/10.

*Fusion Supplements Obliterate-* This is similar to Excelsior in the sense that it's results can depend upon many factors (food, timing etc). It can feel euphoric and help create some of the most amazing workouts but it also has the potential to make you crash or feel off. It's very strong so definitely not for anyone sensitive to stimulants. For it's sheer potential wow factor it has to be 9.1/10.

*Alpha Lion Free*** Juice/Superhuman Supreme*- this is the improved version of the same brands "superhuman" so I was expecting it to be great. It didn't disappoint but it also didn't feel as strong as I expected. As a result I started using well over 1 scoop of this which on paper is already dosed high per scoop. The formula is exactly the same as superhuman with the addition of 2 stimulants in the form of 200mg 2-aminoisoheptane (DMHA) and 200mg n n-dimethylphenethylamine (Eria jarensis) so it's comprehensively dosed in all areas. I should add it also tastes surprisingly good. My product is patriotic pineapple flavour which is white powder with red and blue bits so it definitely looks the part as well. 9/10

*PRE JYM-* This didn't impress me at first but the more I used it the more I liked it. I call it a complete pre workout and it performs in every sense (pumps, energy, focus, feel) and contains some useful ingredients. I would give it a 9/10.

*De Novo Utopia*- this is a great product. It would be unfair to score this as a pre workout. It's more a focus and concentration enhancer and I bought it mainly for work. It's ingredients are very simple but put together very smartly. It does contain 200mg caffeine so it could be used as a preworkout stimulant but I find it better for other things. If you ever have a lot of work to do or even some morning fasted cardio this is ideal. So don't buy this to use as a traditional preworkout. For what it is I give it a 9/10.

*MuscleSport Rhino Rampage*- Very impressive especially for energy and focus. Big feel good factor and it contains 10 different stimulants and a total of 450mg caffeine. It contains amentopump which inhibits PDE which is great for pumps. I also like the addition of kannaease but some respond badly to this. A great product and 9/10.

*BSN's Endo Rush*- I used just a 1 serving sample for this product. It contains some unusual ingredients in the form of euphoria longana and lindera aggregata and these definitely add to it's mental effects. It contains 3g arginine and 3g citrulline malate. Many would state that is not enough but in my experience a very good mix and if they are high quality should produce excellent muscle pumps. Only 2g beta-alanine as CarnoSyn but it must be a very high purity as I felt it loads. This is why I always state ingredient lists are an indication as who knows what exactly is in a product and what is the purity of those ingredients. Great pumps and a nice boost in energy but great focus. The energy stayed and I felt great for hours after using. No jitters or over stimulanted feeling and lot's of clean energy. Something I noticed is the ingredient profile for my sample is different to the one posted online. The product I used does not contain yohimbe plus uses different doses of other ingredients. I would give this 9/10.

*Ronnie Coleman Yeah Buddy-* This to me is very similar to HYDE (on paper and in effect) but without any negatives. A very strong product I recommend to anyone who is fine with stimulants. Overall an easy 9/10.

*5% Nutrition's Full as Fuck-* Techinally not really a pre workout but many use it for that so it's worth mentioning. This contains no stimulants so if you want that it is ideal. I used this through the day (perhaps going the beach) or pre workout with caffeine. The pumps and vascularity from this are insane for me. It's much better used on an empty stomach and takes time to build up. An excellent stimulant free pre workout. You could also add a good stimulant like teacrine to it to make a fantastic complete preworkout too. For what it is I give it a 9/10.

*Enhanced Athlete's RAGE-*Berry blast flavour tastes like crap which for pre workout is often a good sign (not always). Lot's of clean energy and great pumps. It's nowhere as strong as some of the other products I have used but so much smoother. This is a really good product for me and gives the ideal energy and focus I need for the gym without over stimulating. I think the ratio of caffeine to DMHA is ideal. I find DMHA is much smoother than DMAA but obviously similar in effect. I would give this 9/10.

*Alpha Lion Komodo Pump-* This is a stimulant free product but with a difference. Reason being they include some cognitive enhancers in the form of Lion's Mane, Alpha GPC and Huperzine A. So you will feel a little boost in mental clarity/sharpness. It also has 8g citrulline malate, 3g glycerpump, 150mg s7 etc. All in all a great non stimulant product that could be used alone or with a product containing stimulants. For a non stim pump product I give it a 9/10.

*JP Nutrition's Dial-In-* A great product that provides good focus and clean energy. For gaming it would provide a big kick but I don't game and only use it as a preworkout. I like the ingredient panel and you can never go wrong with decent doses of caffeine, l-tyrosine, alphasize and enxtra. I would give this an 8.9/10.

*Muscletech Shatter, SX-7, Black Onyx-* I was very impressed with this product. Although this is one product I am reviewing after a long time has passed so I am forgetting details. I have looked back at all my posts but there isn't much info on it. I recall feeling great using this and that the pumps were fantastic. It contains adenosine triphosphate as it's main pump enhancer and I have had great results using that in the past. It contains a few more uncommon ingredients and I definitely recommend it for something different. Harder to score but I will go with 8.8/10.

*Musclemeds NO BULL*- Great product. Amazing for pumps and good energy. Feel very different but in a good way. Some of the best pumps ever but they fade away after 2 weeks or so. Overall a 8.8/10.

*Thermo-Fuze by Driven Sports-* Another fatburner but I have to include it because the focus this provides is outstanding. Obviously no pump benefits but for what it is it's up there and works great as a preworkout. It will provide lazer like focus and great energy. It may take frequent dosing but it states it's a strong appetite suppressant but I didn't experience that at all. For a preworkout energy boost 2 caps are a solid 8.7/10.

*Alpha Lion's Super Human-* I tried a sample serving just once and it felt great. It provides great energy, focus and pumps. This products is loaded with useful ingredients at effective doses. Most should find this product ticks all the boxes. A very solid 8.6/10.

*Musclerage's Limitless- *One of the nicest tasting pre workouts I have tried (Cotton Candy). Nice clean energy with no crash afterwards. It contains a nice mix of 2 caffeine sources, eria jarensis and alpha gpc. Considering the pump ingredients are standard it also performs very well in that area too. Although after using 2 tubs I have lowered it's score to 8.5/10.

*Cobra Labs The Curse*- Fantastic product. On paper this doesn't look good at all (very basic). I think it contains 125mg caffeine and 5mg olive leaf extract per scoop (50 servings per tub). 2 scoops of this should make you a machine in the gym. Definitely recommended if you want something simple but effective. Rating changes with scoops but overall a 8.5/10.

*Ergogenix's Ergoblast-* A great pre workout and felt very different to most. Nothing too powerful but the focus was great. The pumps were incredible on this product. Overall I give it a 8.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust-X-* I only used a 1 serving sample but was very impressed. All in all great focus, energy and sense of well being. I can't comment on pumps as I used dbol/adrol that day as well  I will say 8.5/10.

*Muscle Chemistry's Pump Juice Extreme-* Great product and provides clean energy and incredible pumps. If you need a pump product try this one (10/10 for pumps). Overall I rate it an 8.5/10.

*BSN's NO-XPLODE XE EDGE-* It contains a lot of useful ingredients. Whilst some may not be dosed high enough the final effect is a very good one. It performs in all areas and I felt great on it. This was just a sachet so could be better at a higher dose. Overall an 8.5/10.

*Chaos Crew StimHead-* Apart from some beta alanine and taurine this is pretty much all stimulants. It includes an array of stimulants and some unusual ones (900mg in total). This made me feel great and really helped push me through some hard workouts. If you are after mainly stimulants this is worth experimenting with. A very good 8.5/10.

*AllMax Nutrition Impact Igniter-* A very good product with an array of useful ingredients. It performs in all areas with no bad side effects. Fairly high stimulants but no crash and overall a solid 8.5/10.

*Muscletech Peak Series Preworkout- *This contains some unusual ingredients and the combination of everything felt great to me. Amazing pumps and great energy and focus. Just a really feel good product for me and one of the best products I have used. Overall an 8.5/10.

*Betancourt's D-Stunner Alpha*- Great initial surge of energy that lowers quickly but still stays. This product simply makes me feel so euphoric. This is quite a rare thing with pre workouts. Many contain ingredients that should make you feel that way but often they don't. Only a handful of products have given me this feeling and this is one of them. Many should enjoy this product. A solid 8.3/10.

*Muscletech Vapor1*- A very good product with good energy, focus and pumps. With decent doses of caffeine and yohimbe extract it provides good energy. It also contains some useful performance enhancers such as betaine and creatine monohydrate. A solid 8.2/10.

*Dynamik's Savage Roar-* A very good pre workout that delivers in every way. Overall an 8/10.

*Innovapharm MVP 2.0-* For the average preworkout user you can't really get better than this. Ticks all the boxes. Great list of ingredients and doses. Very smooth and contains 350mg caffeine and 100mg Eria Jarensis so it's not weak but for me I expected it to feel stronger. For anyone after an all rounder this is one of the top on my list. A solid 8/10.

*Nutrex Outlift Amped*- On paper this looks fantastic but like the original it under performs. It is still very good but I expected more. It's very similar to the original outlift and performs in all areas. I should add the scooper is ridiculous. A perfect example of over designing. They have put a top on it so people can use for water bottles so I get that. But it's so impractical when trying to get powder into the scoop. Not a big deal but worth a mention. I give this 8/10.

*Dorian Yates NOX Pump*- Decent. I used this years ago and it was incredible. This time nowhere as good so the formula must be different (something got banned). Maybe better than decent as with an espresso I am an animal in the gym. This an a single espresso was a fav of mine for a while. With an extra kick this product can score a 9.5/10 but alone it's a solid 8/10.

*Chaos and Pain’s Cannibal Ferox Amped*- Probably the strongest pre workout I have ever taken in regards to stimulants. I really enjoyed this and if you like your stimulants definitely try it out. The one area this really stands out in is the added mental focus. Overall I give it an 8/10.

*Nutrabio PRE-* Very good product full of useful ingredients at effective doses. It's what I call a complete pre workout but it just misses that wow factor. I would give it an 8/10.

*ProSupps Mr Hyde Zero*- Everyone rates this very highly but it's nowhere near my favourite products. It's strong and great for energy but this left me breathless and I have used stronger products without that side effect. Although it still scores fairly highly at 8/10.

*Gaspari SP250*- Very good. Better for energy and focus than pumps bit overall a great pre workout. It did make me crash a bit later on though. I would get the shakes too. Very strong even at just 1 scoop and it is not a 1 scoop formula so be careful when upping the dose. I would give it an 8/10.

*Universal's Fury*- A very basic but solid product. Contains everything you need in a pre workout though. Green apple flavour is the sweetest pre workout I have ever tried. I like that but many won't. Solid product and scores an 8/10.

*Brawn Nutrition's Venom 2.0*- Not for the stimulant sensitive. Although this didn't feel as strong as I initially thought it would be. Overall a very good product and I rate it an 8/10.

*Run Everything Lab's EWP*- This is a very good product but it's effectiveness lowered fairly quickly. It gives me a good boost in energy and pumps. Overall a 8/10.

*Muscletech Performance Series Hydroxcut Hardcore Elite Powder*- I wouldn't usually put a fatburner in this list but this product gives a great boost in energy. It would give any pumps but from what it is it's a very good and cheap preworkout. I like the combination of caffeine, yohimbe extract and robusta coffee extract. This is ideal before cardio and it will make you sweat loads. 8/10.
*
RedCon1 Total War*- This was originally a 9/10 and whilst many will love it for me the new formula is nowhere as impressive. Good for energy, pumps and focus. You can't really go wrong but I need to up the dose to get much from it now. It's a 8/10.
*
SAN's Fierce ***ination*- Nice energy, feel and good pumps. Doesn't have the wow factor but for most it would be a solid product to try. I give it an 8/10.

*BSN's NO Xplode 3.0-* Good product and well worth a try. Very long lasting energy with this one. Includes many useful ingredients. Do not shake this one and just stir it. Overall an 8/10.

*Grenade's .50 Caliber*- It comes in fireball flavour and this is unique to any bb products. Some will love the taste and many will hate it. I quite like it but chilli flavour is unusual. This delivers in all areas and most should enjoy it. Overall I give it an 7.9/10.

*Black Magic Bzrk*- This is a solid product but very standard in today's market. If you respond well to DMHA you should like this one as it contains 200mg amongst other stimulants. Great focus, energy and pumps. It also tastes great which is rare (peach ring flavour). I would give it an 7.7/10.

*Strom Sports Stimumax Black Edition (tub)*- This is hard to score as it can hit me very differently each time. It lacks something to help balance out the stimulants (as do many stimulant preworkouts). As a result I would sometimes crash from this when using higher doses. I wouldn't recommend taking this on an empty stomach. It's still very good so it's gonna be a generous 7.6/10.

*HR Labs Defib*- On paper it looks amazing and contains everything you need and more. It was good but does not live up to the ingredient panel which is very common with preworkout supplements. I was expecting much more from 400mg caffeine, 200mg dynamine and 500mg citicoline. That is a great trio of ingredients at decent doses but I was underwhelmed. It's still a very good product and provides good pumps and clean energy. It just made an 7.6/10.

*Hydrapharm Hydrazine*- I only used a 2 cap sample serving for this product. At that dose it hit me much faster than what was listed on the label. It started with the most intense focus I had felt in a long time. However over a relatively short time it faded so overall I was disappointed. It's still very good and I am sure many will love it but after such an intense start it was disappointment. It's worth adding these caps should be great when added to other preworkouts to enhance focus. I would still give 2 caps 7.5/10.

*Matrix Nutrition NO Pump Xtreme-* I have knocked this down from a 9.5/10. When I used this again it's performance was completely different. The ingredient list is the same but my response completely different. It only contains 80mg caffeine per scoop but this is not a stimulant thing. Even the pump factor is a fraction of the past. I can speculate why but no point as the main factor is how it performs now. Good pumps and energy. 2 scoops is a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Hemo Rage The Underground-* Very similar to Hemo Rage black and gives great energy. Nothing incredible but a solid product. I rate it 7.5/10.

*GAT PMP*- A similar but improved version of Nitraflex. This really grew on me but nothing spectacular. Overall a good product though and I give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex Outlift*- Very good product but not as good as the label suggests. It's similar to PRE JYM in many ways but not as effective. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*Nutrex's Hemo Rage Black*- This is all about energy and a decent product but not as good as many others I have tried. Although I feel really good on this one. Overall I give it a 7.5/10.

*Lee Lebrada Super Charge Xtreme 4.0*- Initially I was not impressed at all but it did improve over time. Not a cheap pre workout either. It's meant to have a lot of caffeine in but I feel a single espresso more than 1 scoop. Might be ok for some but definitely not for me. 1 scop would be 5/10 and 2 scoops 7.5/10.

*Blackstone Labs Dust v2*- Nice flow of energy and great pumps. Not as strong as I thought it would be. Overall a decent preworkout and 7.5/10.

*Applied Nutrition ABE (All Black Everything)*- this is a good product that performs well but nothing incredible. Good energy, focus and pumps with this one. The flavour is really different in the fact it is energy flavour so tastes just like a red bull. Although I notice they offer many flavours in this product. Nearly all the creatine is CM so obviously the cheaper source so pointless even putting in the 0.25g of other creatines. They do that so they can mention their tri-creatine blend. It contains 100mg teacrine so you really feel that. I used a sample and think if you dosed 1.5 scoops this could be really good. For 1 serving I would give it 7.5/10.

*Beast Yourself Raging Bull*- Very good. On paper it is incredible but doesn't live on to that. Really good pumps and combined with an espresso it comes alive even more. I would give it a 7.5/10.

*PRE-KAGED by Kaged Muscle*- An excellent ingredient list and as a result a very expensive pre workout. Similar to PRE JYM in many ways. Overall a good product but doesn't have the wow factor. Overall I give it an 7.4/10.

*APS Nutrition Mesomorph*- This is literally the highest rated preworkout on the forums. I was very disappointed with it. Some people just don't respond to DMAA like others. Although for me there is more to it than that. Mesomorph is obviously strong but I don't feel it in a good way. It can make me a bit out of breath but I don't feel insane focus etc. It's not bad but I just don't feel great on it and I have tried 1/2 of a scoop to 1.5 scoops. I also seem to crash from it and many times would feel very tired after the gym. I would give it 7.3/10.

*Dynamik's Gamma Ray*- This is more of a compliment product in my eyes. It's the pump product for Savage Roar. If you are judging it solely it's nothing spectacular but when added to a traditonal pre workout it can be really special. Not as effective as Full as Fuck but a very good product. Judging it solely as a pump product I would give it a 7.3/10.

*Controlled Labs Orange Brainwash*- This is more of a nootropic so should be used to improve cognitive function (memory, creativity and motivation). I used this for the same reason as De Novo's Utopia. On paper this looks much better but in real life I prefer Utopia. It's still worth trying if you need something to give you a mental boost through the day without being over stimulated. It's also useful for cardio as it does contain 150mg caffeine and 2000mg ALCAR. Overall a decent 7.3/10.

*DS (Driven Sports) Frenzy*- much better than I thought it would be from reading the label. Great energy and focus and no crash afterwards. I didn't notice much for the pumps on this one (energy formula) but they are usually good anyway (next to no pump ingredients and inadequate doses). The flavour was really unusual as it was purposely very fizzy (orange pop). They recommend 1-2 servings so this could get better if dosed higher. For 1 serving I give 7.2/10.

*Inspired DVST8 (white tub)*- on paper this looks fairly strong and it didn't deliver on it's ingredient panel. The stimulants in a full 2 scoop serving contain 350mg caffeine, 120mg dynamine, 300mg N-Phenethyl Dimethylamine (Eria Jarensis Extract) and 100mg Theobromine. It does hit in great and I felt a surge of energy but it's very short lived. The stimulants are all fairly fast acting ones but I expected a bit more from the ingredient panel. All in all still a decent product but it definitely falls short when compared to the many other similar products on the market. Overall a 7.1/10.

*USN 3XT Pump*- The only thing this does for pumps is the name of the product. It's all energy and very good at that. Some may like this but I wouldn't run out to buy it. Overall a 7.1/10.

*5% Nutrition's Kill It Reloaded*- A very well rounded product but missing the wow factor. Performs in all areas but doesn't stand out in anyway. Many ingredients could be dosed higher and that would have given it a much higher score. Many seem to really like it but I much preferred their 5150 product. Overall a decent 7/10.

*MHP's Reckless*- This was a 2 serving sachet so my review is limited to just 1 usage. The initial energy surge was great but it faded really quickly and overall this product is lacking. I can imagine 1 serving would be a waste for me. 2 servings scores a 7/10.

*Goku Gains by Furious Formulations*- As I always post tolerance to stimulants is a massive factor. For someone used to DMHA and other stronger stimulants this product is very standard. However, after a long break or if new to stronger stimulants this could be great for you. Although some of it's ingredients need to be dosed higher for optimal results. I also had issues with my blood glucose with this product and it made me go hypo a few times. In today's market there are many better products. As a result I give this 6.9/10.

*Driven Sports Rize-* This product is harder to score as it hit me very differently each day. With the stronger stimulants your recent food intake becomes a much bigger factor in regards to effecting performance and side effects. If I didn't have a large meal closer to training with this product I would often crash very hard from it. Although it would always hit me fast and felt great but that feeling would quickly decline. As a result I don't recommend it as there are many better alternatives. Although 1 scoop (tub says 1-2 scoops) with added caffeine makes a good combination. It still get's a score of 6.9/10.

*Universal's Shock Therapy*- I have lowered this down after using the full tub. I would recommend this one for beginners. Performs in all areas but I need to use 2 scoops and at that dose rate it 6.7/10.

*Scivation Quake 10.0*- What a disappointment. Looks really good on paper but doesn't perform. The pumps are good but no real energy or focus for me. Overall a 6.6/10.

*5% Nutrition KILL IT-* This one I only tried a sample so take this review with a pinch of salt. I wasn't impressed and expected/hoped for better as I like 5%. Didn't notice too much but again only a sample. Overall a 6/10 but with more scoops could be much better.

*Dymatize Nutrition's M.P.ACT Energy Ignitor*- a pretty standard product and hits you fairly strong but I didn't like the feel from it. There are much better products on the market but still a 6/10.

*GAT Nitraflex-* Not impressed at all. I just had a 2 weeks break from caffeine too. Need to give it another week but so far doesn't do much. It's meant to have 325mg caffeine and 1.5g beta alanine per scoop but I don't feel either. Taste means nothing for pre workout's but I will say the pina colada is nice. I would give it a 5.3/10.

*MAN Sports NOOPump*- This is another stimulant free pre workout. I was disappointed using this and it's nowhere as effective as Full as Fuck. It's not a bad product but there are much better out there. Overall I rate it a 5/10.

*Warrior Rage*- Marketed as one of the strongest pre workouts but didn't do much. I would not recommend it. I give it a 3/10

*Condemned Labz Convict-* On paper this looks ideal for me but it was terrible for me. I always felt out of breath on it even with 1 scoop. However it didn't feel strong nor did it give the focus and energy other product's do. It actually worsens my workouts which is strange for a pre workout. Maybe I should have tried a very small serving for a little booster but I gave my tub away. Most seem to love it though and it's rated very highly. For me it has to be a 1.5/10.

*MRI Black Powder-* Crap. Not even worth writing more about. How can you fuck up a pre workout so much. 2 pro plus would be better. Rating is the worst in my list and 1/1.


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## Elvia1023

I need to use Dragon Pharma's Venom a few more times to effectively review it. I haven't used it for awhile and I know it's very good but can't recall my exact feelings on it so I will use it a few more times and add it to the list. The same for the Naughtyboy Menace Halloween Special preworkout and I will use that a few days running and add it to the review list. 

I have also ordered 3 more new preworkouts for when the gyms reopen so it's full steam ahead for me. All of them are strong and one of them is especially crazy looking.

*Gorillalpha Yeti Juice*- A 2 scoop serving has 7g l-citrulline, 4g beta alanine, 4g peak02, 2g taurine, 1.6g tyrosine, 800mg alpha gpc, 500mg caffeine, 350mg l-theanine, 400mg l-norvaline, 400mg juglans regia, 260mg dmae, 100mg hordenine and 100mg astragin.
*
Martian Muscle Dr Doom-* 4g beta alanine, 400mg juglans regia, 200mg citrus aurantium, 450mg caffeine, 270mg kigelia africana, 6g citrulline malate, 2.5g glycerol, 2g l-taurine, 2g l-tyrosine, 600mg lions mane, 375mg l-theanine, 250mg dmae, 400mg vitamin c, 10mg bioperine.

*Myoblox LOCO Werewolf Blood*-


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## Elvia1023

I should have really done a few days in a row of the products I need to test again to effectively judge properly but I have used 3 different ones the last 3 times I have trained. Below is a quick summation for each:

Naughtyboy Menace Halloween Special- I took this before my last lockdown/kitchen workout so no surprise it hit ma very hard. It felt great but I need to dose it a few more times before the gym before I can fully assess. It's looking like an 8-8.5/10 so far though.

Myoblox LOCO Werewolf Blood- I used this for the 1st time before my 1st workout after lockdown so it definitely needs to be used a few more times because I was flying anyway. It felt great and it hit me very hard. It contains 400mg RealCaf (caffeine derived from green coffee beans) which I find usually hits in harder than standard caffeine. It felt very strong and it was great but I will use it a few more times. It's looking like an 8.5/10 so far.

Dragon Pharma's Venom- I just took this today and it's a solid product and performs in all areas. It's long lasting so good for productivity after training as well. I am thinking between an 8-8.5/10 so far.

So all 3 products so far are performing similarly and they are all solid which is no surprise looking at their labels. I will use them more over the next 2 weeks and add them to my final review list. I am saving the 2 new and very strong preworkouts for a bit later when I am really pushing the weight to the limit in lower rep ranges.


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## kingshazz13

Can anyone suggest a pre-workout for a begginer to bodybuilding?


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## Elvia1023

kingshazz13 said:


> Can anyone suggest a pre-workout for a begginer to bodybuilding?



What are you looking for from a preworkout? Focus, energy, pumps? What is most important to you? Are you sensitive to stimulants? Do you consume much coffee or energy drinks? Have you tried any preworkouts before?


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## Elvia1023

I will update this thread more soon as I have been using various preworkouts for my home workouts for awhile. I also have a few new ones. I posted about 1 tub I bought awhile back but I have yet to start it yet. It's loaded though...


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## Elvia1023

I used Martian Muscle's Dr Doom tonight. 2 scoops and I was wired but it a nice way. Feeling very productive after training as well. All in all a very good product. It's from the same makers as Yeti Juice which I will try soon.


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## woody

i take kratom pre workout.. mixture of white indo and dark green borneo.... it works but kinda makes me chill


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## Elvia1023

woody said:


> i take kratom pre workout.. mixture of white indo and dark green borneo.... it works but kinda makes me chill



Years ago I took kratom (for the 1st time) preworkout and I was so out of it I had to stay home for a few hours. Plus I have taken alsorts of party drugs over the years so it surprised me the strong effect it had on me. I can't remember the strains but I think a white one but it may have been a blend. I used it other times and was fine but after everything I have heard about it I stay away from it but I know many love the stuff. Do you take it often?


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## woody

Elvia1023 said:


> Years ago I took kratom (for the 1st time) preworkout and I was so out of it I had to stay home for a few hours. Plus I have taken alsorts of party drugs over the years so it surprised me the strong effect it had on me. I can't remember the strains but I think a white one but it may have been a blend. I used it other times and was fine but after everything I have heard about it I stay away from it but I know many love the stuff. Do you take it often?



ya i used to be addicted to hydrocodones so i got on kratom to get me off of dones. works wonders... especially for opiate addiction.. i take it in the mornig and b4 workout.. im gonna get some blood work done soon. if my bloodwork is good then ill continue to take it.. i read its kinda toxic to liver in high doses


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## Elvia1023

I have used Martian Muscle's Dr Doom at 2 scoops about 5 times now and it's a solid preworkout. It gives good energy, focus and pumps and overall it's about an 8.5/10. A few days ago I tried Yeti Juice at 2 scoops and that felt amazing. Similar to Dr Doom just better. I have only used it once so far but easily an 9/10 so far.


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## Elvia1023

I tried one of my old ones tonight that I had saved a few servings for future use. I made the mistake of taking the full dose on a fairly empty stomach and I was too wired. My heart rate was up and I was sweating but I had a great workout but definitely too much. It was 2 scoops of Musclesport's Rhino Rampage. Definitely a strong workout and the energy stays with you for 8+ hours.


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## Elvia1023

Today I tried a preworkout that I have only used a few times. It's called Riot Act and it's from HR Labs. It's mainly contains stimulants and as a result it can be useful when my back is feeling tight. I wanted something to give me a great boost without adding to pumps in the gym. I used 1 scoop and this stuff feels great to me. Crazy energy and focus that was very long lasting with no crash. I need to use it more before I rate it but for what it is I would say in the 8.5-9/10 range.


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## The Grim Repper

Elvia1023 said:


> Today I tried a preworkout that I have only used a few times. It's called Riot Act and it's from HR Labs. It's mainly contains stimulants and as a result it can be useful when my back is feeling tight. I wanted something to give me a great boost without adding to pumps in the gym. I used 1 scoop and this stuff feels great to me. Crazy energy and focus that was very long lasting with no crash. I need to use it more before I rate it but for what it is I would say in the 8.5-9/10 range.



Hey brother. Not big into stims much anymore, but keep us posted and since you like to geek out on ingredients, maybe post up some of the benefits of those in the product*?

*Waits for 'Sausage Tree' jokes from the peanut gallery.


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## Elvia1023

I have done it again and not updated this thread and have used many products and I can't even remember all the details so I won't be able to post about them all. I will post more details soon. On the top of my head in the last 6 months I have used...

Gorilla Mode 
Gorilla Mode Stim 
Naughty Boy Menace 
5% Nutrition's 5150
Axe & Sledge's Seventh Gear
Glaxon Specimen
Glaxon GFY
Gorilla Alpha Yeti Juice
Gorilla Alpha Alien Juice

I haven't used anything as strong as Excelsior in the last 6 months but if anyone wants to use a strong preworkout I would recommend Gorilla Alpha Ibiza Juice. If you have 2 scoops it contains 20 servings and the stimulants are very high at that dose.


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## Elvia1023

I have been told by someone that the new batch of excelsior is crazy strong so that sounds promising. Although at the moment I am avoiding any strong stimulants. I had a very short break and since then have been using My Protein's Alpha preworkout. I bought it because it was on a massive sale and it looked basic but effective and I am a big fan of their preworkout+ product and this is no different. I am sure the break helped but I am really liking it (possible top 10). I have always responded well to a mix of Citrulline and AAKG and My protein's products always feel strong considering they are just caffeine based. I haven't even been dosing a full 2 scoops either (just over 1.5) but I will start soon.


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## Elvia1023

I will start posting in this thread more because I haven't included many products I have used in the last year so it definitely needs updating. I want to mention a new pump product that caught my eye recently. A lot of guys are after pump products so this one looks ideal... 

WOLF PUMP​Citrulline Malate - 10g
Glycersize - 4g
Betaine - 3g
Nitrosigine - 1.5g
Alpha GPC - 1.2g
L-Citrulline Nitrate - 1g
Rednite (beetroot) - 1g
Silicon Dioxide - 800mg
Sodium Chloride - 300mg
Resveratrol - 25mg


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## Elvia1023

I have had a tub of Glaxon's GFY for ages and I used it approx 6-12 months ago and it was decent but nothing special. Anyway it's been in a box ever since and I decided to use it a few days ago. It's really bizarre because it hit me unlike it's ever done before and not in a good way. I don't recall it ever making my face flush or tingle badly so even if I had it on a fairly empty stomach this time for it to do what it done was crazy. It's like it mutated sitting in the tub all this time  I felt like I had just injected 2mg melanotan 2 after a 5 year break. I went the most red I have ever gone in my life and my whole face was buzzing to the point it hurt and I had stomach cramps etc. What I would expect from eating 1kg beta alanine powder. It's really strange because 1 serving only contains 1600mg beta alanine and 60mg niacin. I had to sit in the toilet for 20-30 mins just to let the redness go down (took about 1 hour) because I looked like I had just been on a sunbed for 2 hours. Never again... the tub is getting thrown in the bin. 

I do have a tub of Cbum's Thavage Pre on it's way to me so that should be a good one. Over the next few months I mainly want to use good quality pre's with clinical doses of effective ingredients that aren't just loaded with stimulants and will give me a good boost in focus and performance without feeling too amped up.


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## Elvia1023

2 scoops of Cbum's Thavage Pre today and it was good. Nice boost in all areas (nothing over the top) and I had a great workout but I will need to use it a few more times before I can give it a score.


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## Elvia1023

I will update my overall list with reviews soon because it's very extensive and will take time and it's late here now. I have forgotten many products but I still have many to add to it. I do love my high stims but as I get older I have moved away from them. I still have them occasionally but in the future I am going to mainly buy what I call allrounder products. Preworkout's that do everything but which aren't overloaded with stimulants because it's not needed and over time can often go against you. I want to use products full of clinical doses of useful ingredients that improve training in regards to better pumps, endurance and focus.

The product I have been using is a perfect example of a great allrounder product. If I gave a stim junkie Cbum's Thavage Pre they would probably be disappointed. Although I am a stim junkie to a degree and I loved it so maybe not. It doesn't contain many stimulants and fairly low caffeine but enough and I feel great from it. I never have a bad training session. I don't need preworkouts to motivate me because I love to train but this only adds to my training sessions and gets me fired up. 

I wasn't sure just how high to score it but it's up there. I guess it depends what you are after. Again if a stim junkie rated it they may have it much lower. For me right now weighing everything up and comparing it to all the products I have used and the simple fact I feel great when I use it I have to put it right up there. It's between a 9-9.5/10. It performs in all areas and if you like products like Pre Jym and Nutrex's Outlift you should love this.


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## Elvia1023

For my next preworkout I really like the look of the new version of Thavage were Raw and Ghost have come together to release Thavage Legend Preworkout. It looks like it's very hard to get and isn't available online now but it looks even better. I love the ingredient profile and it's similar but with some really good changes...


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## Elvia1023

If anyone wants a crazy stim product check out Golden Pharma CARAT. It contains DMAA, Yohimbine HCL, Alpha Yohimbine, DMHA, DMBA, Hordenine HCL, Eria Jarensis extract etc. Enjoy the adventure to the gym


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