# Gotta love the legs



## ORACLE (Jun 4, 2005)

As some of you may know i havent' worked legs until this year.  I actually enjoy working them.  It takes nothing but raw power to squat the weight.  I thought i'd see what i was up to today on the smith machine so as a final set i put 8 x 45lb plates on and did 7 reps.  I'm gonna push myself harder next time and add more weight considering i did them fairly easy.  On the machine (don't know the actual name) that you sit down in and lay back on and you push upwards on it..i put 12 x 45lbs plates on it and repped it also.  But damn i worked them so hard i can't get up from a sitting position now without wanting to cry.

I actually get compliments for my calves.  They say that their pretty big...i honestly don't think so but hey it's good to know their growing.  Well that's my "i'm excited" moment for the day.


----------



## heavy (Jun 4, 2005)

Im with you bro...legs are my favourite workout. Theres no place better than under a heavy ass barbell in a squat rack. Squats are KING.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 4, 2005)

heavy said:
			
		

> Im with you bro...legs are my favourite workout. Theres no place better than under a heavy ass barbell in a squat rack. Squats are KING.




agree.....always will be king in my book


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 4, 2005)

my friend thought i was going to hurt myself since i like to be aggressively loud....nothing like the adrenaline rush


----------



## latino~heat (Jun 4, 2005)

im doing to much damn cardio on step master that I dont need to work out my legs...


----------



## Clint1 (Jun 4, 2005)

latino~heat said:
			
		

> im doing to much damn cardio on step master that I dont need to work out my legs...



I know what you mean, my wife uses one of those   She has some nice legs.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 4, 2005)

I'm dreading the end of my cycle when i go and do cardio.....i'm not much into that anymore


----------



## Clint1 (Jun 4, 2005)

Why bother with the cardio? Just shift to a higher rep workout.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 4, 2005)

Clint1 said:
			
		

> Why bother with the cardio? Just shift to a higher rep workout.



I'm a habitual power type of guy....heavy weight...low reps.  Kinda hard to mentally shift gears.


----------



## Clint1 (Jun 4, 2005)

Same here, i can usually get away with it. I figure i get enough cardio at work laying 12" concrete block all day. I only switch to higher reps if i feel my joints acheing alot.


----------



## tee (Jun 4, 2005)

oracle said:
			
		

> my friend thought i was going to hurt myself since i like to be aggressively loud....nothing like the adrenaline rush


So your that guy in the gym making all that f'ing noise???!!! 
Be careful on those lying down leg pess machines(If thats what you were talking about). They are hard on your lower back.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 4, 2005)

tee said:
			
		

> So your that guy in the gym making all that f'ing noise???!!!
> Be careful on those lying down leg pess machines(If thats what you were talking about). They are hard on your lower back.



i don't think that's the one...i'm more at a incline pushing up at an angle.  I really don't feel it much on my back.  I use a weight belt so i don't know if that helps


----------



## tee (Jun 4, 2005)

Is it like the first one or the second one? The second pic is the shitty kind of leg press that will F your back up. The first one is fine.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 5, 2005)

tee said:
			
		

> Is it like the first one or the second one? The second pic is the shitty kind of leg press that will F your back up. The first one is fine.



I use the first one.  I rep 12 x 45lbs plates for about 8 good reps.  I'm bumping it up next week.


----------



## DragonRider (Jun 6, 2005)

oracle said:
			
		

> I use the first one.  I rep 12 x 45lbs plates for about 8 good reps.  I'm bumping it up next week.


That's what everyone uses when they want to fool themselves into thinking they are doing a serious leg workout. 

Do free standing squats (no smith machine) until you puke and then tell me how much you love to work legs.

Leg workouts suck!!!


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 6, 2005)

DragonRider said:
			
		

> That's what everyone uses when they want to fool themselves into thinking they are doing a serious leg workout.
> 
> Do free standing squats (no smith machine) until you puke and then tell me how much you love to work legs.
> 
> Leg workouts suck!!!




i'll do 5 sets of heavy squats and finish with a couple sets of leg press......and i LOVE leg day!!!


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 6, 2005)

DragonRider said:
			
		

> That's what everyone uses when they want to fool themselves into thinking they are doing a serious leg workout.



I actually did those prior to doing them on the smith machine.  Still enjoyed it.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 6, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> i'll do 5 sets of heavy squats and finish with a couple sets of leg press......and i LOVE leg day!!!



That's what i do...i know i'm working the same part of my leg but i enjoy killing them with the leg press.  The only thing i hate is taking off all the plates when i'm done


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 6, 2005)

oracle said:
			
		

> I actually did those prior to doing them on the smith machine.  Still enjoyed it.




smith machine =  :gay:


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 6, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> smith machine =  :gay:



Oh so i guess alot of Pro bodybuilders are also since alot of them use the smith machine.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 6, 2005)

oracle said:
			
		

> Oh so i guess alot of Pro bodybuilders are also since alot of them use the smith machine.




actually yes.....you'd be surprised to know how many pro bodybuilders are gay or bi.......smith machine serves its purposes however.......it makes a great coat rack!!!

in all seriousness.......squats on a smithmachine don't compare to regular squats in a squat rack.....of course you do less weight, but when working out, leave your ego at home


----------



## big o (Jun 6, 2005)

Well IMO there's no better workout than squatting....I too love the low rep,power type squat but my 47 year old body can't handle the poundind like I used too....I'm sticking with reps of 6 and I'm using the hack squat for my reps on my quads.....If you want to gain get out of the fucking smith machine crap....Get under the bar,bury every rep to the floor and explode out of the whole.....I've squatted 745 under USPF rules....I went to a seminar many years ago and I was able to pull my hero aside and have a private conversation with him...he was fucking huge and fucking ripped....His name was Tom Platz....he was my hero....He was straight up on every question I asked him...He did a tremendous amount of monkey growth hormone.....I was a ridiculous amount of money he spent..If memory serves me correctly I think he said about $2000 a week......That's out of my league.....He told me if you want to grow your legs bury everything to the floor......I did and I gained alot because of that...at 1 time I had a 30 1/2" left leg and a 30" right leg with a pretty good hammy...Squat Free


----------



## pincrusher (Jun 6, 2005)

for everyone who says you cant get big legs with the smith machine, please explain my 28"+ legs that have been trained using only the smith machine for squats.    i think people underestimate the ability of the smith machine cause they feel it assists to much but if you use it correctly it can be just as good as  free squats.
its much easier to do front squats with a heavy load on the smith machine than you will ever be able to do in a power rack.


----------



## mojo (Jun 6, 2005)

I gotta agree with pin here, The smith machine might help stabalize you and the weight more but you are still pushing the damn weight. And for anyone who has ever torn an ACL, the added security is nice.


----------



## big o (Jun 6, 2005)

There's not a guy in the world pin who squats over 700 that does it with the smith machine..Granted it's probably a very good finishing exercise for the cutting aspect of it....The squat out off the rack builds stomach,back and everything else...To take it to the next level...bottom line power squats,buried....machine is way to restrictive and getting the bar low on the back is pretty hard to do in the smith..I'm talking below the head of your shoulders low so there only leg and hip being worked..I see way to many people with sissy foam thingy's and squatting way to high and never using the full potential of the squat....IMO it's the base of all bases...NO power no size...


----------



## big o (Jun 6, 2005)

Mojo... I have no ACL...and I do mean no ACL....I have no lateral stability....also in DEC..I'm scheduled for my 4th left knee operation...out side and inside tears,a scraping and I have a cyst growing behind my knee cap.....I've only been back to the gym for a short time now...I took a 15 year lay off....I'm going into month # 4 and I'm squatting 505,buried for 6..a hard 6th one but it is what it is....I'm not doing anything for pwoer at all...I'm starting adrol tonite for 4-6 weeks and then I'm off....I can imagine the gains I'll get..OH Boy!!!!....Adrol is my favorite...It just doesn't let me sleep fpr 2 long at nite.....My B/P was get this guys....135/88 with norvasx....Oh  BoY!


----------



## mojo (Jun 6, 2005)

big o said:
			
		

> Mojo... I have no ACL...and I do mean no ACL....I have no lateral stability....also in DEC..I'm scheduled for my 4th left knee operation...out side and inside tears,a scraping and I have a cyst growing behind my knee cap.....I've only been back to the gym for a short time now...I took a 15 year lay off....I'm going into month # 4 and I'm squatting 505,buried for 6..a hard 6th one but it is what it is....I'm not doing anything for pwoer at all...I'm starting adrol tonite for 4-6 weeks and then I'm off....I can imagine the gains I'll get..OH Boy!!!!....Adrol is my favorite...It just doesn't let me sleep fpr 2 long at nite.....My B/P was get this guys....135/88 with norvasx....Oh  BoY!



BigO,
I'm not saying heavy free squats are not the king of all leg exercises, they in fact are, but to say that smith machine squats are not effective is BS. My 28 1/2" legs would tend to disagree, and thats hard to pack onto a 6'4" frame. But for me, 1 knee surgery and 1 reconstructed ankle was plenty so I'm gonna stick with what gives me enough support to stay healthy and avoid the crazy amounts of surgery's you have been through.


----------



## big o (Jun 6, 2005)

Very,Very Very good point....It's what your body tells you and how you feel...I'm sorry if I offended you MoJo or Pin..That was not my intenet....It's just alot of times I here all these upper body people in the gym coming up with every fucking excuse not to squat..and it's all fucking bullshit...they just want t o look pretty without doing to much to sweat or pay there dues....I guess MOJO it's all about paying your dues and it sounds like you payed yours.....Hey is that Paula Abdul on your avatar?


----------



## mojo (Jun 6, 2005)

big o said:
			
		

> Very,Very Very good point....It's what your body tells you and how you feel...I'm sorry if I offended you MoJo or Pin..That was not my intenet....It's just alot of times I here all these upper body people in the gym coming up with every fucking excuse not to squat..and it's all fucking bullshit...they just want t o look pretty without doing to much to sweat or pay there dues....I guess MOJO it's all about paying your dues and it sounds like you payed yours.....Hey is that Paula Abdul on your avatar?



No offense taken BigO, We have alot of those types at my gym who love to work upper body only and then wear pants year round to cover up there chicken legs. The avatar is Carmen Electra. Just measured the legs too! only 27 3/4" Guess I lost a little size on them since the anadrol cycle ended several weeks ago. Damn water retention.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 6, 2005)

I don't agree with the smith machine controversy.  I would like to say that when i'm under the bar it still feels like alot of weight and i'm still working my legs.  Regardless if it's helping to keep my stable and assisting me.  Obviously it's not the same weight (number wise) because theirs not real weight from the bar...however it's the same movement.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 6, 2005)

oracle said:
			
		

> I don't agree with the smith machine controversy.  I would like to say that when i'm under the bar it still feels like alot of weight and i'm still working my legs.  Regardless if it's helping to keep my stable and assisting me.  Obviously it's not the same weight (number wise) because theirs not real weight from the bar...however it's the same movement.




no its not the same movement...it isnt natural......when you do a regular squat, there is more of an arching movement......with smith machine, all you have to do is get under and push with all your mite......

regarding pins statement, of course you'll still work your legs....but you're not working them as well as you could with squats..you're pretty much only doing quads...you might as well just do legs press as that would be more effective than smith machine squats.....you'll be using a lot more muscles from free weight squats. A lot more lower back and abs......squats can greatly improve posture. also, if there is nothing wrong with smith machine...why not do smith machine for all your lifts.......deadlift, bench, etc???  absolutely nothing can take the place of regular free weight squats....it is impossible.  if you're using smith machine and its working for you, keep it up, but remember that you can be gaining a lot more from the free weight ones......also pin you got 28+ inch legs from this....for someone your height and the number of cycles you've done, i'd hope they're 28+ even from not doing squats.....just my opinion


----------



## kell11 (Jun 6, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> no its not the same movement...it isnt natural......when you do a regular squat, there is more of an arching movement......with smith machine, all you have to do is get under and push with all your mite......
> 
> regarding pins statement, of course you'll still work your legs....but you're not working them as well as you could with squats..you're pretty much only doing quads...you might as well just do legs press as that would be more effective than smith machine squats.....you'll be using a lot more muscles from free weight squats. A lot more lower back and abs......squats can greatly improve posture. also, if there is nothing wrong with smith machine...why not do smith machine for all your lifts.......deadlift, bench, etc???  absolutely nothing can take the place of regular free weight squats....it is impossible.  if you're using smith machine and its working for you, keep it up, but remember that you can be gaining a lot more from the free weight ones......also pin you got 28+ inch legs from this....for someone your height and the number of cycles you've done, i'd hope they're 28+ even from not doing squats.....just my opinion


I kind of agree with wolfy on this...On the other hand,I couldn't care less about debating about it.
Whatever works for _you_.Whatever _you,the individual_ prefer.


----------



## Freejay (Jun 6, 2005)

Well, I wish I had some positive input, but I rarely work legs (bad boy I know).  My quads are already 26 inches just natural.  I will be starting to do some seated presses and such on my back or shoulder day.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 6, 2005)

Freejay said:
			
		

> Well, I wish I had some positive input, but I rarely work legs (bad boy I know).  My quads are already 26 inches just natural.  I will be starting to do some seated presses and such on my back or shoulder day.




if anything, you should be working legs as your number 1 lift, considering they are over 50% of your bodys total muscles.  Start doing squats and you'll be growing at an extraordinary rate......and alway remember this......

a man with a weak upper body and strong lower body is always stronger than a man with a strong upper body and weak lower body.  neglecting legs THE worst thing you can do in bodybuilding


----------



## Freejay (Jun 6, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> if anything, you should be working legs as your number 1 lift, considering they are over 50% of your bodys total muscles.  Start doing squats and you'll be growing at an extraordinary rate......and alway remember this......
> 
> a man with a weak upper body and strong lower body is always stronger than a man with a strong upper body and weak lower body.  neglecting legs THE worst thing you can do in bodybuilding



I hear you brother.  I'm on it.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 6, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> neglecting legs THE worst thing you can do in bodybuilding



That's why i incorporated them in after all these years


----------



## heavy (Jun 7, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> Start doing squats and you'll be growing at an extraordinary rate......and alway remember this......



Wolfy is dead on about this. I didnt start gaining weight until I started hitting the squats hard, ass to the floor. The lifts that put the most stress on the body, and are the most physically taxing are generally the lifts that will make your body grow better than anything else.


----------



## mr.nitrofish (Jun 7, 2005)

tee said:
			
		

> Is it like the first one or the second one? The second pic is the shitty kind of leg press that will F your back up. The first one is fine.



I do the first one, Ill usually press 18 45lb plates. but thats only if I press with my feet high, if they are lower I can only do 12.

do you think those are as effective as squats?


----------



## big o (Jun 7, 2005)

Wolfy..your dead on brother....another exercise i like is the hack with my legs really close together so my quads burn....I do reps of 12 -15 and really feel them the next day...I use that for my finishing excercise...I have to be honest with you I get nothing from leg presses....I feel it's the lazy way out....The squat is by far the best of all exercises....but if you have an injury your training around then it's still better than doing no squating....Smith is too restrictive for me....


----------



## pincrusher (Jun 7, 2005)

i use what works best for me whether others agree or not!  i also take my squats all the way down till my heels hit my butt cheeks despite using the smith machine.  every day at the gym i watch people using the power rack for squats and they only go 1/3 of the way down so i know im getting alot more out of it then they are.
i used to use the power rack in the past when i was younger,hell when i was doing some crazy dosage anavar cycles back then when i was in my early 20's, i could squat 400lbs weighting only 130lbs.  i just prefer to use the smith machine when i am working out because i work out alone and usually only have a bunch of women at the gym, none of which would be able to give me a good spot.
one other note is that i have a very good friend i sometimes work out with who uses the smith machine exclusively for squats & benching and he is going to the usa's this year and expects to place pretty high!!!!


----------



## big o (Jun 7, 2005)

Hey these guys are raw....now your talking guys in the 181's are benching 600....and the heavy's are 800 in the squat high 600 low 700 on the bench and deads are close to the same....your talking minimum totals at 2200.....that's serious shit....my best toal in the 242's was 1865..that total now is a fucking joke...


----------



## Freejay (Jun 7, 2005)

big o said:
			
		

> Wolfy..your dead on brother....another exercise i like is the hack with my legs really close together so my quads burn....I do reps of 12 -15 and really feel them the next day...I use that for my finishing excercise...I have to be honest with you I get nothing from leg presses....I feel it's the lazy way out....The squat is by far the best of all exercises....but if you have an injury your training around then it's still better than doing no squating....Smith is too restrictive for me....



For me, it's not being lazy bro, I was told by my Chiropractor to stay away from traditional squats due to my lower spine being under developed (genetic..my father was the same way).  I'm not looking to be a powerlifter here, and believe you can build strength in the legs using other methods.


----------



## big o (Jun 7, 2005)

Freejay...I'm not bashing you here so please don't take it that way....I have 2 degenerative discs back in 96 I had 7 lower lumbar epiderals....That's were they stick the needle right into the disc and surrounding area's not fun..at all...So anyone who has an excuse my back,my back is basically using that as an excuse for not grinding out the tough ones....All right I was a competetive power lifter for 11 years...I was a really sick fucker with an immense tolerance for pain...There was always something hurting...but you train through the pain..that's how you make those little gains that always eem to elude those who don't really want to push their bodies to get to the next level....If you want to play with the big dog's you have to get off the porch....
Freejay were cool bro....


----------



## steve0085 (Jun 7, 2005)

Freejay said:
			
		

> For me, it's not being lazy bro, I was told by my Chiropractor to stay away from traditional squats due to my lower spine being under developed (genetic..my father was the same way).  I'm not looking to be a powerlifter here, and believe you can build strength in the legs using other methods.


Chiropractors are quacks.  Keep in mind that just because they call themselves doctors, doens't mean they are.  I'm not knockin you here Freejay, I just hate them so much.  I had one tell me that I was prone to sinus infections because my neck was out of adjustment.  A friend on mine was told by one that sqauts are bad for circulation, I think they just make this stuff on their way to work in the morning. Oh by the way, I'm gonna need you to come in 3 times a week for the next 6 months.  Sorry for the rant. Back to your squatting debate


----------



## big o (Jun 7, 2005)

Yea I had a quack tell me that healing with jesus christ is the only way....


----------



## Freejay (Jun 7, 2005)

big o said:
			
		

> Yea I had a quack tell me that healing with jesus christ is the only way....



Now that is a quack!  I don't have any pain in my lower back.  I just didn't do the squats because I didn't want to develop the same condition that my father had (7 back surgeries, 2 steel rods, etc.)  And Chiropractors are not quacks bro, I swear by mine, and have referred many friends.  Think of it this way...Chemical cause, chemical cure...Mechanical cause, mechanical cure.  You cant fix missaligned bones with a pill!  I will start the squats this week.


----------



## DragonRider (Jun 7, 2005)

mr.nitrofish said:
			
		

> do you think those are as effective as squats?



I hate to say this because I HATE to squat, but............not even close.


----------



## Severe (Jun 8, 2005)

I used to hate legs. Now that i've been working them, I look forward to it. In all honesty I have gained 6 pounds this week, (SO FAR) without the use of steroids. Before, I never worked my legs or gained weight because of it, but since i've started I cant stop working them. Today I was squatting 300 but i'll be able to do more next week, since last week I could do little over half of that. I know it seems unreal but legs are helping me in ways I never could have imagined possible.

I have also noticed a stronger back. My back used to be weak but squatting and deadlifting is helping a lot. You wont hurt it unless you squat too much weight or squat with the wrong form.


----------



## steve0085 (Jun 8, 2005)

Freejay said:
			
		

> Now that is a quack!  I don't have any pain in my lower back.  I just didn't do the squats because I didn't want to develop the same condition that my father had (7 back surgeries, 2 steel rods, etc.)  And Chiropractors are not quacks bro, I swear by mine, and have referred many friends.  Think of it this way...Chemical cause, chemical cure...Mechanical cause, mechanical cure.  You cant fix missaligned bones with a pill!  I will start the squats this week.


I agree that they have their place, I go to them sometimes.  I say they're quacks because they try to offer medical advice and they call themselves doctors when they have no medical degree.  But I do agree that they can help at what they're supposed to do, just pissed off that they try to do more.


----------



## big o (Jun 8, 2005)

Hey all you have to do is 3-5 sets of 10 for as much and as low as you can possibly go...The back will develop it's muscle and keep the misalingment in line with good solid muscle...The harder and more developed the muscle the better chance for the muscle to keep everything in the correct position..IMO


----------



## DragonRider (Jun 9, 2005)

big o said:
			
		

> ...The harder and more developed the muscle the better chance for the muscle to keep everything in the correct position..IMO



There is much truth in that.


----------



## Freejay (Jun 9, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> actually yes.....you'd be surprised to know how many pro bodybuilders are gay or bi.......smith machine serves its purposes however.......it makes a great coat rack!!!
> 
> in all seriousness.......squats on a smithmachine don't compare to regular squats in a squat rack.....of course you do less weight, but when working out, leave your ego at home



It will be funny to see how Wolfy's posts change when he actually grows up (he's only 22..just a baby.)  Barely old enough to use gear!  J/K Wolfy..U know I love you man!


----------



## Zaven (Jun 10, 2005)

pincrusher said:
			
		

> for everyone who says you cant get big legs with the smith machine, please explain my 28"+ legs that have been trained using only the smith machine for squats.    i think people underestimate the ability of the smith machine cause they feel it assists to much but if you use it correctly it can be just as good as  free squats.
> its much easier to do front squats with a heavy load on the smith machine than you will ever be able to do in a power rack.


  .......I only use the smith.........


----------



## heavy (Jun 10, 2005)

Zaven said:
			
		

> .......I only use the smith.........


 :sniper:


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

heavy said:
			
		

> :sniper:




lol


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

True when you squat with a barbell it's nothing but weight...but it's still the same movement with the smith machine than it is free weighted.  Your still having to use just as much muscle as the latter


----------



## Freejay (Jun 10, 2005)

oracle said:
			
		

> True when you squat with a barbell it's nothing but weight...but it's still the same movement with the smith machine than it is free weighted.  Your still having to use just as much muscle as the latter



Yes, but I guess what everyone means is that the Smith keeps both ends of the bar level at all times, so you don't really use some of the stabillizer muscles.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

Freejay said:
			
		

> Yes, but I guess what everyone means is that the Smith keeps both ends of the bar level at all times, so you don't really use some of the stabillizer muscles.



It still doesn't make it less effective.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

oracle said:
			
		

> It still doesn't make it less effective.




sure it does......unless you're soley isolating the quads........you may as well just stick with leg press........i believe you will recruit more muscle fibers.....


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> sure it does......unless you're soley isolating the quads........you may as well just stick with leg press........i believe you will recruit more muscle fibers.....



I do both and i just started working legs but yet mine are coming along pretty good.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

oracle said:
			
		

> I do both and i just started working legs but yet mine are coming along pretty good.




do why dont you do regular squats??? because you cant do too much or what??  leave your ego at home


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> do why dont you do regular squats??? because you cant do too much or what??  leave your ego at home



lol you really don't know much about how i workout wolfy...it's not about the ego bro...trust me i'm big and strong enough to not have to worry about that part.  I only do smith machines now because the YMCA i workout at doesn't have a squat rack.  Oh and yes....i still can do alot on the regular squat rack also.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

oh yeah...and for those who don't think smith machines work .... here's my legs.  And i just started working them ..... 

http://www.anasci.org/vB/showthread.php?t=4607&page=1

Oh hey there's my "ego" and i thought i brought it to the gym.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

O said:
			
		

> oh yeah...and for those who don't think smith machines work .... here's my legs.  And i just started working them .....
> 
> http://www.anasci.org/vB/showthread.php?t=4607&page=1
> 
> Oh hey there's my "ego" and i thought i brought it to the gym.




not difficult to get big legs when you're already stocky to begin with now is it??  plus the fact you just started training them recently is making them grow big.......


----------



## steve0085 (Jun 10, 2005)

I don't really think anyone said that smith machine squats are useless and ineffective, just not as effective as regular squats.  I think the smith machine will hit the quads just as much, but it doesn't hit the back and abs and the smaller stabilizers as much.  The more muscle fibers you can get going at one time, the more growth you're gonna have, it's that simple.  I do smith machines sometimes, when I can't get a good spot, but the rest of the time I do free weight squats.  

Anyways, legs are looking good oracle, whatever works for you keep doing it until it stops working.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

steve0085 said:
			
		

> I don't really think anyone said that smith machine squats are useless and ineffective, just not as effective as regular squats.  I think the smith machine will hit the quads just as much, but it doesn't hit the back and abs and the smaller stabilizers as much.  The more muscle fibers you can get going at one time, the more growth you're gonna have, it's that simple.  I do smith machines sometimes, when I can't get a good spot, but the rest of the time I do free weight squats.
> 
> Anyways, legs are looking good oracle, whatever works for you keep doing it until it stops working.




exactly....smith machines will work....but can't put a patch on regular squats


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> not difficult to get big legs when you're already stocky to begin with now is it??  plus the fact you just started training them recently is making them grow big.......



you never seem to amaze me when you look for the negatives. lol.  Actually there's alot of "stocky" guys who work legs but for some reason just can't get them to grow.  hmmm.....and true they are responding well because they are now being worked....but hmmm....still remains the fact that smith machines "work".  

BUT since you want to talk about smith machines are blah blah blah....and how you should leave your ego out of the gym....blah blah blah....how come i don't use the normal squat rack because "i might not be able to do as much" blah blah blah....how about some supporting pics of "YOURS" just to show the rest of the kiddies how

1. hard work and eating get's "you" big
2. to leave the ego at home and what it does for the amount of weight you can handle
3. and the results of working the squat rack and not the smith machine to get bigger legs.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

O said:
			
		

> you never seem to amaze me when you look for the negatives. lol.  Actually there's alot of "stocky" guys who work legs but for some reason just can't get them to grow.  hmmm.....and true they are responding well because they are now being worked....but hmmm....still remains the fact that smith machines "work".
> 
> BUT since you want to talk about smith machines are blah blah blah....and how you should leave your ego out of the gym....blah blah blah....how come i don't use the normal squat rack because "i might not be able to do as much" blah blah blah....how about some supporting pics of "YOURS" just to show the rest of the kiddies how
> 
> ...



lol...this post "O" just proves you have an ego.........

1.  i dont even have a perfect diet, but i'm not complaining on about the gains i get on cycle because i know what its from
2.  I do leave my ego at home......i can max about 400 on squat....i have no problems with what my max lifts, as long as i like the way i'm looking/gaining
3.  results on the squat rack are obviously going to be better than on the smith machine.  Its much more difficult and you're working a long more of your body, not just your quads....smith machine, all you have to do is get under and push....thats it.....not having to worry about falling side to side or forward and backward......

i have no idea how you workout "O".....whatever works for you, stick with.....I was just asking a simple question, why you're preaching about the smith machine, and why you dont do regular squats.......

the only thing i can deduce is that you're a hardass with an ego....especially at the previous post towards me......i wasnt dissing you at all......just asking a question bro.....no need to be a dickhead about it


----------



## steve0085 (Jun 10, 2005)

Alright boys, time to stop the bickering or I'll turn this car around.


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> the only thing i can deduce is that you're a hardass with an ego....especially at the previous post towards me......i wasnt dissing you at all......just asking a question bro.....no need to be a dickhead about it



LoL everyone has an "ego" and it's a good thing for me that i have broad shoulders to carry around such a "big ego". Now that was egotistical. As far as the posts well you did say "why don't i do regular squats...afraid that i can't do as much?  and to leave my "ego" at the door.  Hmmm.....I'm not a hardass but just like in the jayson thread you got on him about what gains he got.  Obviously offending him too.  He called you out with where's your "PICS" and i'm just doing the same.


----------



## steve0085 (Jun 10, 2005)

This is wolfy on cycle


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

O said:
			
		

> LoL everyone has an "ego" and it's a good thing for me that i have broad shoulders to carry around such a "big ego". Now that was egotistical. As far as the posts well you did say "why don't i do regular squats...afraid that i can't do as much?  and to leave my "ego" at the door.  Hmmm.....I'm not a hardass but just like in the jayson thread you got on him about what gains he got.  Obviously offending him too.  He called you out with where's your "PICS" and i'm just doing the same.




lol.....because i'm the only one who got on jayson because of his cycle (give me a break)......i'll post my pics (if i ever get any) when i feel like it.....i never said i was the best lookin guy on this board.......far from it......and mind you not everyone on here has put up their pictures.......how was i to know that you didnt have a squat rack at your gym?!?!?  every YMCA i've been to has one so I kinda figured yours would as well.......

of course i'm gonna get on someone about an all oral cycle....did you not see the post DR put up about we possibly start banning people who openly admit to cycling poorly like that??!?!  guess not.........and of course i'm gonna tell people that the regular squat is far more effective than smith machine......i never said smith machine does not work.  I'm just looking out for the guys on here and tryin to give them the proper advice/critiques on their workouts and cycle.  Thats what a MOD and the VETS on here do.  Help one another out to make the most of their cycle.  But i'm done with all this bullshit...if you need to get the last word in, be my guest.  Maybe us MODS won't offer any type of advice to you guys because we obviously know nothing.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

steve0085 said:
			
		

> This is wolfy on cycle




lol...i wish i had the back of dorian......


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

steve0085 said:
			
		

> This is wolfy on cycle



Obviously without the "ego"


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 10, 2005)

O said:
			
		

> Obviously without the "ego"




lol...keep it up bro


----------



## steve0085 (Jun 10, 2005)

O said:
			
		

> Obviously without the "ego"


Yeah, my ego gives me another 12 pounds.  I'm curious, is that LEAN mass?


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 10, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> lol.....because i'm the only one who got on jayson because of his cycle (give me a break)......i'll post my pics (if i ever get any) when i feel like it.....i never said i was the best lookin guy on this board.......far from it......and mind you not everyone on here has put up their pictures.......how was i to know that you didnt have a squat rack at your gym?!?!?  every YMCA i've been to has one so I kinda figured yours would as well.......
> 
> of course i'm gonna get on someone about an all oral cycle....did you not see the post DR put up about we possibly start banning people who openly admit to cycling poorly like that??!?!  guess not.........and of course i'm gonna tell people that the regular squat is far more effective than smith machine......i never said smith machine does not work.  I'm just looking out for the guys on here and tryin to give them the proper advice/critiques on their workouts and cycle.  Thats what a MOD and the VETS on here do.  Help one another out to make the most of their cycle.  But i'm done with all this bullshit...if you need to get the last word in, be my guest.  Maybe us MODS won't offer any type of advice to you guys because we obviously know nothing.



Temper Temper....I NEVER said you didn't know anything?  In fact i REGARD YOU AS ONE OF THE BEST ADVISERS ON THIS BOARD.  Not always the best with words however.  As far as the post about banning people about "improper" cycling i did not read it..however i think it would be a bad thing to do because it's good to show how improper cycling can be bad and when other people read how actually to do it then it helps out more.    Here's my last 2cc's on the subject.  YES your correct that Free Squatting is more beneficial as a whole than a smith machine but if done right can be just as effective as the latter


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 11, 2005)

http://anasci.org/vB/showthread.php?t=4796&highlight=anadrol


post 46


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 11, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> http://anasci.org/vB/showthread.php?t=4796&highlight=anadrol
> 
> post 46



Yeah but that's the point of forums too...it's a way of "researching" for answers.  Yes there are some that don't want to "google" and find an answer so they turn to those who can give an exact answer.


----------



## wolfyEVH (Jun 11, 2005)

O said:
			
		

> Yeah but that's the point of forums too...it's a way of "researching" for answers.  Yes there are some that don't want to "google" and find an answer so they turn to those who can give an exact answer.




if they're willing to listen


----------



## ORACLE (Jun 11, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> if they're willing to listen



You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink....unless it's "ego" juice


----------



## Zaven (Jun 11, 2005)

Smith machine squats and leg extensions work great for me.........my form sucks at free squats.......they make my lower back hurt plus I like the stability of the smith machine.

And I don't really care if free squats work my abs and lower back better.........I've got deadlifts and crunches to do that........I guess it just depends on the look and what your going for.........

I make consistent gains with smith squats and leg extensions alone....so that's what I use............

Peace...


----------

