# big shoulders



## ben johnson (Nov 3, 2005)

i need a new shoulder workout, i want nice, big shoulders and what im doing is not working the way i want it to. i warm up with some military and front dumbbell raises....to start i do heavy military 3 sets of 10-12, single arm military 3 sets heavy, then i do 3 sets of straight bar shrugs 3 sets of ?? heavy, then some drop sets for side and front of shoulders as well as for the delts, then one more set of dumbbell shrugs and i finish off with a burnout on military. any help would be appriciated. i want cantalope lookin balls on the ends of my shoulders...


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## healthfreak (Nov 3, 2005)

sounds like it may be the rep range. 10-12. go with 6-10 rep range heavy weights.
and try supersetting. It worked well for me


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## wolfyEVH (Nov 3, 2005)

ben johnson said:
			
		

> i need a new shoulder workout, i want nice, big shoulders and what im doing is not working the way i want it to. i warm up with some military and front dumbbell raises....to start i do heavy military 3 sets of 10-12, single arm military 3 sets heavy, then i do 3 sets of straight bar shrugs 3 sets of ?? heavy, then some drop sets for side and front of shoulders as well as for the delts, then one more set of dumbbell shrugs and i finish off with a burnout on military. any help would be appriciated. i want cantalope lookin balls on the ends of my shoulders...



i only do 2 exercises for shoulders (besides the fact i'm working shoulders on my chest day)

Miltary press for 4 sets (4-6 rep range)
lateral raises for 3 or 4 sets (6-8 range)

thats it.  sometimes i'll do lateral raises first to pre-exhaust my delts.  are you doing all the compound movements like squats, rows, and deads??? all 3 crucial for TOTAL body develop IMO.


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## heavy (Nov 3, 2005)

You need to drop your reps, like healthfreak said, and go heavy. I find 4-8 reps is where its at, when going to failure, in getting delts to grow. Just make sure your forcing yourself to get stronger each week while doing this. Here is a good routine; if your eating like a horse, and getting proper rest, your delts WILL grow.

Seated DB military press - 4 to 5 sets- 4-8 reps, with one set, either your first or last, 10-14 reps.

Dumbell Front Raise - 3 sets- Keep your rep range between 4-8, but have one set with higher reps in the range of 10-14, either for your first set or last, to really get a deep burn. 

Dumbell Side Lateral Raises - 3 sets-

Rear Delt Machine, or Rear Dumbell Lateral Raise - 3 sets-

I assume your bulking, so this routine will work well on a high calorie diet. It is high in volume, but works really well. Make sure to take as many sets to failure as you can, and track your workouts to improve every time you step foot in the gym. I guarantee this will get your delts to grow. Do your shrugs on another day, or you will over-train. Keep your shoulder workout seperate from your other muscle groups


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## Zaven (Nov 4, 2005)

wolfyEVH said:
			
		

> i only do 2 exercises for shoulders (besides the fact i'm working shoulders on my chest day)
> 
> Miltary press for 4 sets (4-6 rep range)
> lateral raises for 3 or 4 sets (6-8 range)
> ...


I agree with wolfy on this one........most peeps overtrain their shoulders, that's why u hardly ever see well developed shoulders on guys.  

wide grip military presses and side lateral raises work wonders for me...

good luck bro...


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## ben johnson (Nov 4, 2005)

sweet...i love this site...ive only been here for a month or two but the help everyone gives kicks ass....thanks for all your input guys. i will try heavys routine first, next wednesday.


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## Andrew (Nov 4, 2005)

*minority view*

I agree that going heavier and fewer reps will probably benefit you, but also lighter and higher reps can benefit you.  I do 10-week routines.  Every ten weeks I change to a higher rep/lower weight or lower rep/higher weight regimen.  Currently all my sets are trying to get 15-20 reps.  Next week I will start a new 10-week routine that will aim for 5-10 reps.


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## needsomeinfo (Nov 28, 2005)

Behind the neck presses get every head of the deltoid


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## Macstanton (Nov 28, 2005)

needsomeinfo said:
			
		

> Behind the neck presses get every head of the deltoid



they can also fuck up your rotator cuff.....


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## wolfyEVH (Nov 28, 2005)

Macstanton said:
			
		

> they can also fuck up your rotator cuff.....



agree.......and i dont hit every head on the same shoulder exercise......i hit the rear delts on my back day from rows, i do lateral raises, as well as shoulder press (not to mention the shoulder workout you get from benching).


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## needsomeinfo (Nov 28, 2005)

IF you do them with good form and go real slow they will not hurt you , also you shouldn't goe all the way down , leave a few inches left in your range of motion


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## needsomeinfo (Nov 28, 2005)

Incline bench gets front shoulders real good, especially dumbell press


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## wolfyEVH (Nov 29, 2005)

needsomeinfo said:
			
		

> IF you do them with good form and go real slow they will not hurt you , also you shouldn't goe all the way down , leave a few inches left in your range of motion



its not a natural movement...the same with lat pulldown behind the neck...why risk injury???


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## Clint1 (Nov 29, 2005)

seated front presses for me, i aim for 6 reps which means i'm getting 3-5 rep range till i can hit that sixth rep and bump up the weight. My shouldars have never liked behind the neck presses, that lift has never felt right for me. Inclines, flats, close grip presses. I do shrugs as well but consider that more of a traps workout. Pretty much what everyone else has said. Up the weight drop the reps.  Clint


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## Cannons (Nov 29, 2005)

I know that you all don't approve of rear presses, but they have worked wonders for me.  I have literally no side delt development whatsoever and for years I have lacked finding a workout program that will stimulate them.  Recently I started adding two things in my delt regimen.  Smith machine behind the neck presses, and "arnold" side laterals.  When doing these two excersices along with dumbell presses, I leave the gym with a super pump that I've never had, and a good soreness the next day.  I do the presses with light enough weight for me to handle 10-12 reps very carefully and don't go below my lower arms parallel to the ground (I actually have sprained my AC in both shoulders a few years ago, and do this with no pain).  Then the "ARNOLD" side laterals, lay on an incline bench on your side with arm hanging to the side, and lift straight up.  It works wonders for me, and hopefully I can start building my side delt now.  I don't do front delts anymore cause of the amount of work they get during chest workouts, I do however do rear delts after side delts on shoulder day.  Behind the neck presses can be done safely with great care and concentration.  For me they are necessary for growth, just my 2cc.


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## Macstanton (Nov 29, 2005)

I've noticed that I have gotten serious shoulder gains in the past few months from doing "arnold" should press - twisting the weight on the concentric motion of the repetition.


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## Cannons (Nov 29, 2005)

Macstanton said:
			
		

> I've noticed that I have gotten serious shoulder gains in the past few months from doing "arnold" should press - twisting the weight on the concentric motion of the repetition.


Yeah, those too.


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## gpearl383 (Nov 29, 2005)

I also do "arnold" dumbell presses and i swear by them.


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## Clint1 (Nov 29, 2005)

This whole preference to presses to the front or behind the neck comes down to genetics. Upright rows is another lift that just does not feel right, so i do shrugs instead. As far as the overtraining issue is concerned, which is a very common mistake. People think take a routine out of some book/magazine and try to employ it to gain. When in fact its more then there body is ready for, they see little to no gain and figure "i'll add a set". Wrong. I have my routine pretty well dialed in, meaning i gain either reps or poundage from one week to the next. My workouts are 20-30 mins. on average. One bodypart a day seven days a week, if i'm feeling burnt out i'll take a day. If i'm not gaining strength/reps/poundage i tend to drop a set on a lift vs. adding more sets or another lift for the given bodypart. Less is more for me if done with sifficient intensity. Clint


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## Macstanton (Nov 29, 2005)

I agree Clint.  Genetics do play a huge rule.  I can shoulder press 225 and I have descently(sp) big shoulders, but when it comes to calves,  I can't get them to grow at all.  It just boils down to doing what's right for you.


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## Clint1 (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm 5'6" at a weight of 165 i was repping 185 for seated presses. genetics???? Training right plays its role as well. Leave the fancy lifts for cutting cycles and stick with heavy basic lifts, low reps. Achieve momentary muscular fatique and move on to the next lift. My calves ain't to pretty either. Clint


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## Nitrateman (Nov 29, 2005)

Bump on the Arnolds.  Did them for the first time two days ago, and i felt the shoulder muscles...don't know how else to explain it.

Arnolds will be part of my routine from now on, or until tomorrow  LOL

Nitrateman


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## Macstanton (Nov 30, 2005)

speakin of calves, do any of you feel a little weird doing donkey calf raises in front of a lot of people.  or do you have the machine b/c i've never had that luxury.  I've always had to have some guy sit on my back in the middle of a damn gym....lol


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## HeavyMetal64 (Nov 30, 2005)

Don't do donkey raises for this reason - I don't have a w/o partner usually anyways.


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## wolfyEVH (Nov 30, 2005)

Clint1 said:
			
		

> This whole preference to presses to the front or behind the neck comes down to genetics. Upright rows is another lift that just does not feel right, so i do shrugs instead. As far as the overtraining issue is concerned, which is a very common mistake. People think take a routine out of some book/magazine and try to employ it to gain. When in fact its more then there body is ready for, they see little to no gain and figure "i'll add a set". Wrong. I have my routine pretty well dialed in, meaning i gain either reps or poundage from one week to the next. My workouts are 20-30 mins. on average. One bodypart a day seven days a week, if i'm feeling burnt out i'll take a day. If i'm not gaining strength/reps/poundage i tend to drop a set on a lift vs. adding more sets or another lift for the given bodypart. Less is more for me if done with sifficient intensity. Clint



you work out 7 days a week!?!?  your body needs rest days for you CNS. even though your workouts are only 30 mins, I still think you need at least 2 days rest per week.  do you ever feel drained during the week?


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## Clint1 (Nov 30, 2005)

I try to get in 7 days a week, especially early in a cycle. I do one bodypart a day except day 7 is calves and abs and i just started doing neck raises. My thought is each bobypart is getting hit hard once every seven days. If i'm not gaining reps or poundage on my lifts from week to week i change something. i have got one week in with lifting since late june. My body weight is up 10 lbs so far. My lifts will climb quick as well due to muscle memory and some "supplements". I listen to my body if i'm feeling burnt i'll take some days off or do a mainteance type of workout. I'm a bricklayer so i do heavy physical labor all week at work. If you have any input shoot, i'll listen that is why i'm here. If i feel i can ad to a post i will, but i'm mostly here to learn.   Clint


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## wolfyEVH (Nov 30, 2005)

Clint1 said:
			
		

> I try to get in 7 days a week, especially early in a cycle. I do one bodypart a day except day 7 is calves and abs and i just started doing neck raises. My thought is each bobypart is getting hit hard once every seven days. If i'm not gaining reps or poundage on my lifts from week to week i change something. i have got one week in with lifting since late june. My body weight is up 10 lbs so far. My lifts will climb quick as well due to muscle memory and some "supplements". I listen to my body if i'm feeling burnt i'll take some days off or do a mainteance type of workout. I'm a bricklayer so i do heavy physical labor all week at work. If you have any input shoot, i'll listen that is why i'm here. If i feel i can ad to a post i will, but i'm mostly here to learn.   Clint



well u can still hit each bodypart 7 days a week w/ adding rest days....combine bodyparts that go with each other..... like back and bi's, shoulders/tris, legs and chest on their own day.  right there is 4 days a week and you get 3 days off.  Maybe try that for like a few months and see how you like it.  I dont know about you, but i like to be in the gym only a few times a week. Dont get my wrong, i love to work out, but i'd much rather work out 4 days a week and have 3 days rest.  (wednesday and the weekend) i'm only at the gym for about a hour each day.  Your body will want to repair your CNS before it starts on your muscles.  thats why its good to have a day off in the middle of the week. plus the whole weekend free to relax and not worry about anything but eating!


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## fuzion (Nov 30, 2005)

I do clean and press and military presses from in front of the head then I move to behind the head.  http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/rockypresses.htm


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## Clint1 (Nov 30, 2005)

Wolfy, If things get stale or i start burning out i'll take your suggestions under consideration. In the past i've used training splits similar to what you are suggesting. I work out at home, i have a full rack w/ lat tower, low pulley row, dip station, safety spotters inside the rack as well as outside. It has everythng i need. So i have the advantage of just walking down the stairs when i feel like working out.  But, like you said everyday can get old and its always good to mix things up for the body. Later, Clint


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## DragonRider (Dec 8, 2005)

fuzion said:
			
		

> I do clean and press and military presses from in front of the head then I move to behind the head.  http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exercise3/rockypresses.htm


That brings back memories. That was the first board I ever joined. I haven't post there since Feb 14 2002.


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## ben johnson (Dec 8, 2005)

i have started a new routine and am hitting hi rep, low weight next week and i will do it for a few weeks and then go heavy again. i see some improvement in shoulder. wheni get the balls i will post some pics...


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