# BBing vs PLing somethings I always thought to be true.



## chicken_hawk (Jul 31, 2015)

So, in my last 12 years in the gym and as a huge fan of programming (training) I have always suspected one thing to be true. While some programs may be better than others, they all work. No two champions train the same...effort + resistance=muscle and strength. 

Now, let's take it one step further with a few exceptions, all things being equal a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. Show me a 5'10" bber or pler who squats 800 lbs and I am going to show you two dudes with yoked quads. Have you ever seen a 500lb bencher with a small chest? Walk into any serious gym and you will see strong bbers and big plers. And it appears that research is starting to confirm just that. Biopsies show that Plers and bbers have nearly equal development of both fast and slow twitch fibers. Now, each did favor their sport, but the difference is negligible. So, I am saying that if a bber would take a few months to peak he would do well as a pler. And again, if a pler trimmed down they would look nearly as jacked as a bber.

I look at old school pler who trained the off season with high reps like Coan or Kaz to name a few. Or more recently, Kendall or Efferding who had strong bbing roots. And while many bbers don't do heavy singles we have all seen Big Ronnie squat and dead 800...trust me, youtube has ruined just how rare and impressive that is. Go to a pling meet and the only guys you will accomplishing both of those feats will be sitting at 300 or plus lbs (a few exceptions of course).

And my final point would be the size principle. Small (slow twitch) fibers are recruited before the bigger (fast twitch) fibers, so the body uses the least amount of energy to perform a task. So, if one does a heavy single he will recruit his slow first and then his large fibers as the body recognizes it needs them. End result (hypothetically) is all fibers are recruited. Now, when a bber does 10 reps to failure the same thing happens, but as his slow twitch fatigue the fast twitch are recruited. End result, all are recruited again assuming the set was pushed close to failure.

There are some practical applications here, but I will see if there is any interest before spending my time.

Hawk


----------



## TLopez (Aug 1, 2015)

Interested.


----------



## d2r2ddd (Aug 1, 2015)

Subscribed


----------



## chicken_hawk (Aug 1, 2015)

Ok, well I appreciate the interest brothers. If we agree the above is true we can add one more factor to the equation.  Recent meta analysis (trying to find the common denominator of multiple studies) appears to demonstrate something we have already know and that is volume is key. The more volume the more the gains. This was really brought home in one study when some trained subjects did 8x3 and others did 3x10. At the end of the studies both groups had gained nearly the same amount of size and strength.  The main difference was the 8x3 took 45 mins to train while 3x10 took 15 mins. 
So, it would appear that traditional bbing reps would be ideal for both size and strength as they are the more efficient way towards volume. However,  we have to remember one hand washes the other. Nothing builds the ability to handle heavy weights like handling heavy weights and being able to heavy weights improves our ability to do more weight for reps. Try this, work very easily to a heavy triple, then after a brief rest do a back off set and watch how many reps you get with an old 10 rep max...you'll blow it away since your cns has been tuned up. 

So, the answer to what to is to do both, some low reps and some high reps. If you're a bber then obviously your emphasis would be on getting as much volume as possible while still getting in some low reps. For the pler you certainly want to keep low rep work in, but times of volume could be the key to adding new strength. Now, old school guys would do linear periodazation working from high reps down to low reps over a period of several months. Not really ideal for bbers and there may be a better way for plers as well.

DUP or daily undulating periodization seams to be a great alternative for both bbers and plers. DUP is simply doing different rep schemes on different days. The details are all yours to decide. It could be as simple as doing 5x5 one week and doing 3x12 the next. Or you could make it as complex as yours truly who squats 3x week, one 3x10,3x3 and then 3x1. Only the 3x10 is done close to failure. For chest I train 2 x week, once I do 3x10 with some bbing work after then later in the week I do 3x3. If I was bbing I would likely do more rep work and less power work.

The take home is to do all rep ranges with the emphasis on your bent. Bbers do your rep work, but include some heavy stuff on a regular basis. Plers, do your heavy stuff but make sure to get some volume in and not just some fluffy accessory work. This way you get the best of both worlds.

Hawk


----------



## Sully (Aug 2, 2015)

Good analysis Hawk. I've been doing a lot of reading about DUP as well, and am convinced it works well. I switched up my training and started doing chest every other day with DUP, and have been very impressed with both the size and strength gains. I'm about to start using DUP for the rest of my training as well.


----------



## d2r2ddd (Aug 2, 2015)

Seems like the PRRS protocol 
Power week : 1-6reps
Rep Range : 8-15reps
shocked weeks : All kinds of HIT


----------



## chicken_hawk (Aug 2, 2015)

Lil' Sully said:


> Good analysis Hawk. I've been doing a lot of reading about DUP as well, and am convinced it works well. I switched up my training and started doing chest every other day with DUP, and have been very impressed with both the size and strength gains. I'm about to start using DUP for the rest of my training as well.



I believe DUP is likely the best philosophy of training going around, mostly because it is a group of principles that can be customized vs. A cookie cutter program that tries to convince you that there is only one way to train.

The heart of a good DUP program is higher frequency like you mentioned.  I train bench 2x and squat 3x. Now, they are different variations of the movement and rep ranges so I have plenty of variety. 

Hawk


----------



## chicken_hawk (Aug 2, 2015)

d2r2ddd said:


> Seems like the PRRS protocol
> Power week : 1-6reps
> Rep Range : 8-15reps
> shocked weeks : All kinds of HIT




Your right it is similar in concept.  Unfortunately,  the frequency is so low with prrst that you would lose much of the gains from the earlier sessions. But, I always liked his thinking.

Hawk


----------



## Sully (Aug 3, 2015)

chicken_hawk said:


> I believe DUP is likely the best philosophy of training going around, mostly because it is a group of principles that can be customized vs. A cookie cutter program that tries to convince you that there is only one way to train.
> 
> The heart of a good DUP program is higher frequency like you mentioned.  I train bench 2x and squat 3x. Now, they are different variations of the movement and rep ranges so I have plenty of variety.
> 
> Hawk



Originally when I decided to try it, I wasn't that optimistic. I thought I would be "overtraining" my chest. Turns out it was the exact opposite. I think I was really under training initially by only doing 1-2 workouts per body part per week. 

As you said, volume is the key to the program. But, I think a lot of guys don't correctly understand what volume really is. Volume, as I see it, is weight x reps x sets, then added together for all exercises of that muscle group. It is also cumulative over an entire workout, not just one set, or one exercise. 

With DUP, ideally, each workout of the same body part would have a similar total volume, regardless of rep scheme. So, low reps and higher weight day(weight x reps x sets = total volume) would be almost the same total volume as high rep, low weight day. With the overall idea to be slowly increasing the total volume of every workout over a period of time. 

I really like doing a 3 phase volume periodization. A low rep/high weight day, followed by a high rep/low weight day, followed by a medium rep/medium weight day. Or whatever order works best for you. With the overall volume of each workout being almost equal. It gives your muscles a new stimulus that they must constantly work to adapt to. Metabolic stimulus and adaptation is really the overall name of the game. 

One of the under appreciated aspects of DUP, is it helps to prevent boredom. I get in a rut and do the same shit everyday without even realizing it. This helps to prevent that by constantly having a different plan for each day that I need to concentrate on.


----------



## d2r2ddd (Aug 3, 2015)

CH, care to lay out a example of a DUP program u would devised?


----------



## chicken_hawk (Aug 4, 2015)

Lil' Sully said:


> Originally when I decided to try it, I wasn't that optimistic. I thought I would be "overtraining" my chest. Turns out it was the exact opposite. I think I was really under training initially by only doing 1-2 workouts per body part per week.
> 
> As you said, volume is the key to the program. But, I think a lot of guys don't correctly understand what volume really is. Volume, as I see it, is weight x reps x sets, then added together for all exercises of that muscle group. It is also cumulative over an entire workout, not just one set, or one exercise.
> 
> ...



Lil' Sully,  you laid it out better than I could have. I will agree with the whole boredom aspect. You get to do something fresh everyday, but you also repeat that down the road so you can monitor aka get stoked about your progress.

I will add that, one of the finer points about DUP at least according to W. Kramer is that while you are training one aspect of your muscle fibers, the other aspects are still recovering. In addition PRO synthesis runs for about 48 hrs PWO, so you are stimulating that response for the same bodyparts multiple times a week.

Another point that Greg Nuckols mentions it that is you only did 6 sets a week and spread them over three days, you would naturally have a greater training effect since each set beyond the first is less effecient. So, the law of diminishing returns comes into effect. But, the more you spread out your sets through the week, the less that law applies.

Hawk


----------



## chicken_hawk (Aug 4, 2015)

d2r2ddd said:


> CH, care to lay out a example of a DUP program u would devised?



Well, here is great article on it:How to Use DUP for Bodybuilding & Powerlifting – Part 1 | IronMag

Here is some simple research https://homeofstrength.wordpress.com/2014/03/30/dup-in-trained-powerlifters-a-six-week-study/

And what I do is probably irrelevant as I made it just for me and what I need. A few of those items are its my off season, I have a weak upper back, some shoulder issues, dead lifts fatigue my back for weeks and finally I can not handle much volume compared to most, usually half.

Monday:
High bar squat 2-3x8-10
Pull downs 4x10-12
Cb Rows 4x10-12
Db curls 4x10-12

Tuesday;:
Feet up bench 3x10, one back off with 225
Inc Fly 3x10-12
Front Press 4x10-12
Push down 3x10-12 tried dips, but too hard on tris...didn't recover
Calves 4x10-12

Wednesday:
Safety bar squat 3x3
Under grip rows 3×6-8
Rope pull through 3x6-8
Ez bar 3x6-8

Thursday off

Friday
Alternate squat or dl for singles with 85-90%. Start with 3 total and work to 5 reps before I add weight. Sets always trump weight.
Bench 3x3, back off with 225,
Side laterals 4 x20 for the bber in me.
calves 3x25

Hawk


----------

